255 réponses à ce sujet

[RANDOMvGRENADE]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

[Brettic]

Iodine wrote...

Brettic wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

Brettic wrote...

This is such a perfect Parody.

I wonder if they even realize this is what they sound like.

Are you serious? How is credit glitching comparable to rape in any way shape or form in any universe?

Credit glitching is like jaywalking. It's a victimless crime that gets you where you want to go faster and playing legitimately is like having to wait at the cross walk, you still get there, but it takes longer.

It doesn't have anything to do with comparing, thats what they sound like.

It's called mockery, you take their argument, replace it with something else, and see if it sounds utterly ridiculous.

What you are doing is looking for an equivocation in the cases where there is none, and then stopping right there without looking at what the overall purpose or meaning is. You are just stuck on a single detail that doesn't have anything to do with it.

Well, in all fairness, it's definitely not anywhere close to a perfect analogy (and maybe just a tiny bit hypberbolic and in poor taste). But it was intended more as mockery/very loose analogy of the arguments supporting cheating/exploiting, than a direct comparison or even insult, and you both seem to understand that. Just making sure that is clear.

Idid say it was a mockery... That last sentence i was criticizing him.

[Kel Riever]

Cheating is dumb. However, its going to happen. Don't worry about it and move on.

[D Wrecks]

DevilDoc8404 wrote...

Just Cav wrote...

Unless you're going to suggest and prove that wave 10 glitchers are damaging the game, it doesn't matter.

I will suggest that and prove that.

Bioware, and EA are companies that thrive on profit.  They require a source of income.  Unfortunately their children like to eat and live in houses, etc.  Most of them are probably great people.  But we all do enjoy eating and surviving, so we work instead of volunteering for the greater good.  Unfortunately Communism has been a failure, so we have to do it.

If for example, the multiplayer is profitable (Selling Packs for Real Money)... they will continue to make multiplayer a better experience for the player.  To sell more packs.  To feed more of those darn children who like to keep eating.

Lets say multiplayer is riddled with people exploiting a flaw to make credits very quickly instead.  They don't need to purchase packs to play at the level they choose.  There is absolutely no reason to do so.  Now EA and Bioware are making no money.  Their children start crying.  The power gets shut off.  They grow beards.  And reenact scenes of Platoon with Charlie Sheen.    

They now have no possible reason to continue updating this game, or bring out additional content.  None.   Therein it hurts our playing experience directly.

Suffice it to say that damaging and preventing improvement are hardly the same thing.

Modifié par Just Cav, 05 mai 2012 - 06:02 .

[DevilDoc8404]

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

DevilDoc8404 wrote...

Just Cav wrote...

Unless you're going to suggest and prove that wave 10 glitchers are damaging the game, it doesn't matter.

I will suggest that and prove that.

Bioware, and EA are companies that thrive on profit.  They require a source of income.  Unfortunately their children like to eat and live in houses, etc.  Most of them are probably great people.  But we all do enjoy eating and surviving, so we work instead of volunteering for the greater good.  Unfortunately Communism has been a failure, so we have to do it.

If for example, the multiplayer is profitable (Selling Packs for Real Money)... they will continue to make multiplayer a better experience for the player.  To sell more packs.  To feed more of those darn children who like to keep eating.

Lets say multiplayer is riddled with people exploiting a flaw to make credits very quickly instead.  They don't need to purchase packs to play at the level they choose.  There is absolutely no reason to do so.  Now EA and Bioware are making no money.  Their children start crying.  The power gets shut off.  They grow beards.  And reenact scenes of Platoon with Charlie Sheen.    

They now have no possible reason to continue updating this game, or bring out additional content.  None.   Therein it hurts our playing experience directly.

Your arguement only applies if buying packs with real money was the only way to achieve them.  There is no guarantee of profit as they do not know for sure that people will buy any packs.  Therefore to say someone who buys packs with illgotten credits is somehow ripping EA off is ridiculous!  They are free by nature, with the OPTION to feed EA profit margins.  The option part being the qualifier.  Optional. 

So you are saying that one of the most (if not the most) profitable enterprises in gaming (EA) is retarded?   It's been proven that RMT works.  That having the same content available for ingame time is a good thing, however people are willing.  And will continue to be willing, to pay for items in game.  No, you don't have to.  If you are willing to invest the time in the game, I respect that... but that argument holds no water when you are working out of the game parameters.  

Anyone with a drop of development experience, or the ability to use Google for that matter, could modify certain parameters of the game.  See: "God Gun" cheats.  That however, would be considered "Cheating" and people would howl for bans.  

Again, it all boils down to the Developers have stated, in depth, it's cheating.  So... it is.  Thats all there really is to this argument.

[RANDOMvGRENADE]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

True, but it's a part of the game that Bioware shipped and has continuously chosen to simply dismiss as cheating instead of fixing. It's in no way competitive, and you're only impacting the game (positively or negatively) for youself. If people care more about simply playing the game, then why do they care that somebody has a slightly better gun than them?

And furthermore, why do so many people suddenly support EA's business model simply because somebody found a way around it? Bioware sure as hell isn't making decent money off the packs, and EA is the same company that decided to charge people FORTY DOLLARS to unlock all of the class and vehicle items in Battlefield 3. The only reason I still can stand to look at myself in the mirror after supporting a company like EA is becuase they publish a lot of decent games. I'll buy any games and DLC that are worth the money, but I'm sick and tired of EA dedicating their resources towards things that are obviously meant to take advantage of all but the most dedicated gamers.

THIS

[DevilDoc8404]

Just Cav wrote...

DevilDoc8404 wrote...

Just Cav wrote...

Unless you're going to suggest and prove that wave 10 glitchers are damaging the game, it doesn't matter.

I will suggest that and prove that.

Bioware, and EA are companies that thrive on profit.  They require a source of income.  Unfortunately their children like to eat and live in houses, etc.  Most of them are probably great people.  But we all do enjoy eating and surviving, so we work instead of volunteering for the greater good.  Unfortunately Communism has been a failure, so we have to do it.

If for example, the multiplayer is profitable (Selling Packs for Real Money)... they will continue to make multiplayer a better experience for the player.  To sell more packs.  To feed more of those darn children who like to keep eating.

Lets say multiplayer is riddled with people exploiting a flaw to make credits very quickly instead.  They don't need to purchase packs to play at the level they choose.  There is absolutely no reason to do so.  Now EA and Bioware are making no money.  Their children start crying.  The power gets shut off.  They grow beards.  And reenact scenes of Platoon with Charlie Sheen.    

They now have no possible reason to continue updating this game, or bring out additional content.  None.   Therein it hurts our playing experience directly.

Suffice it to say that damaging and preventing improvement are hardly the same thing.

Really?  So... you as a player never want additional content added to this game?  If thats the case.... Please never show your face on any content post, ever.  Because obviously it's not a concern of yours.

[KiraTsukasa]

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

By that logic, if someone walking down the street drops their credit card right in front of you, then you're well within your rights to pick it up and use it for yourself. Because you didn't create the situation where they dropped it, you just happened to be there.

[RANDOMvGRENADE]

DevilDoc8404 wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

DevilDoc8404 wrote...

Just Cav wrote...

Unless you're going to suggest and prove that wave 10 glitchers are damaging the game, it doesn't matter.

I will suggest that and prove that.

Bioware, and EA are companies that thrive on profit.  They require a source of income.  Unfortunately their children like to eat and live in houses, etc.  Most of them are probably great people.  But we all do enjoy eating and surviving, so we work instead of volunteering for the greater good.  Unfortunately Communism has been a failure, so we have to do it.

If for example, the multiplayer is profitable (Selling Packs for Real Money)... they will continue to make multiplayer a better experience for the player.  To sell more packs.  To feed more of those darn children who like to keep eating.

Lets say multiplayer is riddled with people exploiting a flaw to make credits very quickly instead.  They don't need to purchase packs to play at the level they choose.  There is absolutely no reason to do so.  Now EA and Bioware are making no money.  Their children start crying.  The power gets shut off.  They grow beards.  And reenact scenes of Platoon with Charlie Sheen.    

They now have no possible reason to continue updating this game, or bring out additional content.  None.   Therein it hurts our playing experience directly.

Your arguement only applies if buying packs with real money was the only way to achieve them.  There is no guarantee of profit as they do not know for sure that people will buy any packs.  Therefore to say someone who buys packs with illgotten credits is somehow ripping EA off is ridiculous!  They are free by nature, with the OPTION to feed EA profit margins.  The option part being the qualifier.  Optional. 

So you are saying that one of the most (if not the most) profitable enterprises in gaming (EA) is retarded?   It's been proven that RMT works.  That having the same content available for ingame time is a good thing, however people are willing.  And will continue to be willing, to pay for items in game.  No, you don't have to.  If you are willing to invest the time in the game, I respect that... but that argument holds no water when you are working out of the game parameters.  

Anyone with a drop of development experience, or the ability to use Google for that matter, could modify certain parameters of the game.  See: "God Gun" cheats.  That however, would be considered "Cheating" and people would howl for bans.  

Again, it all boils down to the Developers have stated, in depth, it's cheating.  So... it is.  Thats all there really is to this argument.

retarded is not the word I would use, as it is derogotory.  I am saying they are motivated by greed and profit, not excellence and standards.

[Impulse and Compulse]

DevilDoc8404 wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

DevilDoc8404 wrote...

Just Cav wrote...

Unless you're going to suggest and prove that wave 10 glitchers are damaging the game, it doesn't matter.

I will suggest that and prove that.

Bioware, and EA are companies that thrive on profit.  They require a source of income.  Unfortunately their children like to eat and live in houses, etc.  Most of them are probably great people.  But we all do enjoy eating and surviving, so we work instead of volunteering for the greater good.  Unfortunately Communism has been a failure, so we have to do it.

If for example, the multiplayer is profitable (Selling Packs for Real Money)... they will continue to make multiplayer a better experience for the player.  To sell more packs.  To feed more of those darn children who like to keep eating.

Lets say multiplayer is riddled with people exploiting a flaw to make credits very quickly instead.  They don't need to purchase packs to play at the level they choose.  There is absolutely no reason to do so.  Now EA and Bioware are making no money.  Their children start crying.  The power gets shut off.  They grow beards.  And reenact scenes of Platoon with Charlie Sheen.    

They now have no possible reason to continue updating this game, or bring out additional content.  None.   Therein it hurts our playing experience directly.

Your arguement only applies if buying packs with real money was the only way to achieve them.  There is no guarantee of profit as they do not know for sure that people will buy any packs.  Therefore to say someone who buys packs with illgotten credits is somehow ripping EA off is ridiculous!  They are free by nature, with the OPTION to feed EA profit margins.  The option part being the qualifier.  Optional. 

So you are saying that one of the most (if not the most) profitable enterprises in gaming (EA) is retarded?   It's been proven that RMT works.  That having the same content available for ingame time is a good thing, however people are willing.  And will continue to be willing, to pay for items in game.  No, you don't have to.  If you are willing to invest the time in the game, I respect that... but that argument holds no water when you are working out of the game parameters.  

Anyone with a drop of development experience, or the ability to use Google for that matter, could modify certain parameters of the game.  See: "God Gun" cheats.  That however, would be considered "Cheating" and people would howl for bans.  

Again, it all boils down to the Developers have stated, in depth, it's cheating.  So... it is.  Thats all there really is to this argument.

He never said they were retarded, he only said this business model was ineffective, and I'd have to agree, at least in the context of EA's uncountable attempts with every game to charge you money for content that you unlock by playing the game. I'm sure they made money off of the system (considering how miniscule the cost of implementation must have been) but the fact that the packs barely give you anything really put a damper on their sales.

[Impulse and Compulse]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

By that logic, if someone walking down the street drops their credit card right in front of you, then you're well within your rights to pick it up and use it for yourself. Because you didn't create the situation where they dropped it, you just happened to be there.

If it's was EA's credit card, damn straight I would.

If they want to lawyer us into being penalized for playing their game wrong, you can bet your ass I'm going to do something about it.

[Brettic]

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

The only reason it says may be instead of is, is because sometimes people stumble upon bugs that are being exploited by accident and get banned in the ban wave along with all the actual exploiters. They look at how severely you exploited it and take it into consideration, if it was an honest mistake, you are fine, if you only did it a little and werent sure if it was bad or not, they'll revert your stuff. If you took serious advantage of it they will just ban you outright.

That is even what they are doing in this case.

Keep in mind what an exploit is.

[Brettic]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

By that logic, if someone walking down the street drops their credit card right in front of you, then you're well within your rights to pick it up and use it for yourself. Because you didn't create the situation where they dropped it, you just happened to be there.

If it's was EA's credit card, damn straight I would.

If they want to lawyer us into being penalized for playing their game wrong, you can bet your ass I'm going to do something about it.

You would eh?

You realize thats a Federal crime?

Stumbling upon a bug is one thing.

Exploiting it is another.

Just like stumbling upon a wallet is not a crime.

but using the credit card is.

[RANDOMvGRENADE]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

By that logic, if someone walking down the street drops their credit card right in front of you, then you're well within your rights to pick it up and use it for yourself. Because you didn't create the situation where they dropped it, you just happened to be there.

replace credit card with $100 bill and you have a more appropriate analagy.   And though it may be morally wrong to some, it is not illegal to find cash on the ground, no matter how it got there.  If that person valued their money, they would 
1. pick it back up
2. be careful not to continue to drop money.

Bioware simply needs to pick up the bait and stop making threats against an otherwise civil and honest gaming community.

[sydsyrious]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

By that logic, if someone walking down the street drops their credit card right in front of you, then you're well within your rights to pick it up and use it for yourself. Because you didn't create the situation where they dropped it, you just happened to be there.

How about if someone buys a painting at a garage sale, and finds a million dollars in it?

[Impulse and Compulse]

Brettic wrote...

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

By that logic, if someone walking down the street drops their credit card right in front of you, then you're well within your rights to pick it up and use it for yourself. Because you didn't create the situation where they dropped it, you just happened to be there.

If it's was EA's credit card, damn straight I would.

If they want to lawyer us into being penalized for playing their game wrong, you can bet your ass I'm going to do something about it.

You would eh?

You realize thats a Federal crime?

Stumbling upon a bug is one thing.

Exploiting it is another.

Just like stumbling upon a wallet is not a crime.

but using the credit card is.

I don't care. Moral obligation should always take priority over what some pencil-pusher in DC decides is right for me.

And if I find $20 in the street, I'd take it. Wouldn't you?

And even going beyond your wacky and misplaced metaphor, people aren't committing a federal crime by using the glitch. Bioware loses nothing from it. (although they'd like to think that all of these people trying to work around the system would spend all of their time and money paying Bioware for the items if the glitch didn't exist)

Modifié par Impulse and Compulse, 05 mai 2012 - 06:21 .

[sydsyrious]

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

replace credit card with $100 bill and you have a more appropriate analagy.   And though it may be morally wrong to some, it is not illegal to find cash on the ground, no matter how it got there.  If that person valued their money, they would 
1. pick it back up
2. be careful not to continue to drop money.

Bioware simply needs to pick up the bait and stop making threats against an otherwise civil and honest gaming community.

Sorry, I didn't see this before I wrote my garage sale argument....but I think we are on the same page.

[Brettic]

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

By that logic, if someone walking down the street drops their credit card right in front of you, then you're well within your rights to pick it up and use it for yourself. Because you didn't create the situation where they dropped it, you just happened to be there.

replace credit card with $100 bill and you have a more appropriate analagy.   And though it may be morally wrong to some, it is not illegal to find cash on the ground, no matter how it got there.  If that person valued their money, they would 
1. pick it back up
2. be careful not to continue to drop money.

Bioware simply needs to pick up the bait and stop making threats against an otherwise civil and honest gaming community.

I don't believe you are real, you are a troll, you can't be real.

[KiraTsukasa]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

Brettic wrote...

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

By that logic, if someone walking down the street drops their credit card right in front of you, then you're well within your rights to pick it up and use it for yourself. Because you didn't create the situation where they dropped it, you just happened to be there.

If it's was EA's credit card, damn straight I would.

If they want to lawyer us into being penalized for playing their game wrong, you can bet your ass I'm going to do something about it.

You would eh?

You realize thats a Federal crime?

Stumbling upon a bug is one thing.

Exploiting it is another.

Just like stumbling upon a wallet is not a crime.

but using the credit card is.

I don't care. Moral obligation should always take priority over what some pencil-pusher in DC decides is right for me.

I'm sure Bubba will enjoy your company.

[Nocturnalfox]

Brettic wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

The only reason it says may be instead of is, is because sometimes people stumble upon bugs that are being exploited by accident and get banned in the ban wave along with all the actual exploiters. They look at how severely you exploited it and take it into consideration, if it was an honest mistake, you are fine, if you only did it a little and werent sure if it was bad or not, they'll revert your stuff. If you took serious advantage of it they will just ban you outright.

That is even what they are doing in this case.

Keep in mind what an exploit is.

This analogy sucks.

My point was "if it isn't directly affecting you why does it matter" 
The answer is (For most of you) it doesn't. 
Once you draw a line in the sand on this issue then others (like me) have more of a leg to stand on (yes, we are forum made reapers) when we say "certain enemies and maps needs to be rebalanced"


So ultimately either it bothers you or it doesn't. If it doesn't why complain. If it does, well, I will return the argument "why does it bother you, keep playing the game with your friends, no glitchers, cheaters, exploiters and/or farmers there unless you allow them to be" 

None in my matches because I VTK them all.

[Brettic]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

Brettic wrote...

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

By that logic, if someone walking down the street drops their credit card right in front of you, then you're well within your rights to pick it up and use it for yourself. Because you didn't create the situation where they dropped it, you just happened to be there.

If it's was EA's credit card, damn straight I would.

If they want to lawyer us into being penalized for playing their game wrong, you can bet your ass I'm going to do something about it.

You would eh?

You realize thats a Federal crime?

Stumbling upon a bug is one thing.

Exploiting it is another.

Just like stumbling upon a wallet is not a crime.

but using the credit card is.

I don't care. Moral obligation should always take priority over what some pencil-pusher in DC decides is right for me.

If you think picking up someones credit card and using it is a moral thing to do, you don;t know what moral means. Not only that but you would be guilty of credit card fraud.

[Brettic]

Nocturnalfox wrote...

Brettic wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

The only reason it says may be instead of is, is because sometimes people stumble upon bugs that are being exploited by accident and get banned in the ban wave along with all the actual exploiters. They look at how severely you exploited it and take it into consideration, if it was an honest mistake, you are fine, if you only did it a little and werent sure if it was bad or not, they'll revert your stuff. If you took serious advantage of it they will just ban you outright.

That is even what they are doing in this case.

Keep in mind what an exploit is.

This analogy sucks.

My point was "if it isn't directly affecting you why does it matter" 
The answer is (For most of you) it doesn't. 
Once you draw a line in the sand on this issue then others (like me) have more of a leg to stand on (yes, we are forum made reapers) when we say "certain enemies and maps needs to be rebalanced"


So ultimately either it bothers you or it doesn't. If it doesn't why complain. If it does, well, I will return the argument "why does it bother you, keep playing the game with your friends, no glitchers, cheaters, exploiters and/or farmers there unless you allow them to be" 

None in my matches because I VTK them all.

It's not an analogy.

[D Wrecks]

DevilDoc8404 wrote...

Just Cav wrote...

DevilDoc8404 wrote...

Just Cav wrote...

Unless you're going to suggest and prove that wave 10 glitchers are damaging the game, it doesn't matter.

I will suggest that and prove that.

Bioware, and EA are companies that thrive on profit.  They require a source of income.  Unfortunately their children like to eat and live in houses, etc.  Most of them are probably great people.  But we all do enjoy eating and surviving, so we work instead of volunteering for the greater good.  Unfortunately Communism has been a failure, so we have to do it.

If for example, the multiplayer is profitable (Selling Packs for Real Money)... they will continue to make multiplayer a better experience for the player.  To sell more packs.  To feed more of those darn children who like to keep eating.

Lets say multiplayer is riddled with people exploiting a flaw to make credits very quickly instead.  They don't need to purchase packs to play at the level they choose.  There is absolutely no reason to do so.  Now EA and Bioware are making no money.  Their children start crying.  The power gets shut off.  They grow beards.  And reenact scenes of Platoon with Charlie Sheen.    

They now have no possible reason to continue updating this game, or bring out additional content.  None.   Therein it hurts our playing experience directly.

Suffice it to say that damaging and preventing improvement are hardly the same thing.

Really?  So... you as a player never want additional content added to this game?  If thats the case.... Please never show your face on any content post, ever.  Because obviously it's not a concern of yours.

Wow. That's totally not what I meant at all.

[XFactor777]

Wow some people. I don't/won't cheat in any game that has multiplayer cause I wouldn't like it if someone did it to me but I want you to right now tell me who it hurts when they cheat and don't give that it takes away money crap you know EA made over 1 BILLION dollars last year right

[Impulse and Compulse]

Brettic wrote...

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

Brettic wrote...

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

RANDOMvGRENADE wrote...

KiraTsukasa wrote...

Nocturnalfox wrote...

I figure what is the issue.
Not defending it, just pointing out the childishness of most forum people.

When FBWGG has been criticised the response is "it doesn't directly affect you, so why do you care"

Couldn't the same response be used here or is there some hypocrisy here as well...


I don't like cheaters any more then I like farmers, I think of them in the same category- exploiters.

Playing Firebase White against geth on gold difficulty is within the game's normal intended parameters. While many people don't agree with it, anything that would be done to deter it would simply be out of spite.

As for the glitching, I highly doubt it was intended for people to screw with the game to make it think it was wave 10 of the last game over and over again so they can get credits.

The gamer is not creating the environment, they are walking into it.  The gamer is not complicit in the writing/failure to catch these glitches in a timely manner.  That is why in the EULA you reference the wording says "MAY BE IN VIOLATION", and "AT SOLE DISCRETION OF EA".   If it was absolute that exploiting/glitching was a violation it would say "IS", not "MAY BE".  

By that logic, if someone walking down the street drops their credit card right in front of you, then you're well within your rights to pick it up and use it for yourself. Because you didn't create the situation where they dropped it, you just happened to be there.

If it's was EA's credit card, damn straight I would.

If they want to lawyer us into being penalized for playing their game wrong, you can bet your ass I'm going to do something about it.

You would eh?

You realize thats a Federal crime?

Stumbling upon a bug is one thing.

Exploiting it is another.

Just like stumbling upon a wallet is not a crime.

but using the credit card is.

I don't care. Moral obligation should always take priority over what some pencil-pusher in DC decides is right for me.

If you think picking up someones credit card and using it is a moral thing to do, you don;t know what moral means. Not only that but you would be guilty of credit card fraud.

tl:dr EA has done us wrong enough to warrant a loss on the same level as a credit card theft.

Since you didn't quite seem to understand the point I was trying to make.

When EA makes a system that's mutually beneficial to both sides, then I'll support them and go on the great witch hunt for those trying to exploit and work around it.

But since we all know that's not going to happen, we'll just continue to sit here and argue about ethics, using video games and online glitches as our basis.