105 réponses à ce sujet

[sarahbau]

Achievements are basically there to show how much of the game you've completed. For example, you can beat the game as a human mage, but you haven't completed the entire game, since you haven't played the Dwarf Commoner, Dwarf Noble, City Elf, Dalish Elf or Human Noble origins. Once you've done those origins, you get those achievements. It's the same for the romances. You are basically saying you want credit for completing 100% of the game, without being "forced" to complete 100% of the game. Either live with the fact that you will only have 99% of the accomplishments, or suck it up and play a female character.



My first playthrough, I played basically the same way I myself would react to things. I was generally nice to people, and did everything to help them, and played a female mage since I'm a woman. Right now I'm playing as a male dwarf who'll do anything for wealth and power. He'll steal from beggars, won't help people unless he knows his reward upfront, and kills anyone who gets in his way. I can't really relate to this character at all, but it's fun to play a different role. It is a ROLE playing game afterall. By refusing to play the game as a different role, you're missing out on way more than achievements. You're missing out on part of the game.

[hmlee2008]

sarahbau wrote...

Achievements are basically there to show how much of the game you've completed. For example, you can beat the game as a human mage, but you haven't completed the entire game, since you haven't played the Dwarf Commoner, Dwarf Noble, City Elf, Dalish Elf or Human Noble origins. Once you've done those origins, you get those achievements. It's the same for the romances. You are basically saying you want credit for completing 100% of the game, without being "forced" to complete 100% of the game. Either live with the fact that you will only have 99% of the accomplishments, or suck it up and play a female character.

My first playthrough, I played basically the same way I myself would react to things. I was generally nice to people, and did everything to help them, and played a female mage since I'm a woman. Right now I'm playing as a male dwarf who'll do anything for wealth and power. He'll steal from beggars, won't help people unless he knows his reward upfront, and kills anyone who gets in his way. I can't really relate to this character at all, but it's fun to play a different role. It is a ROLE playing game afterall. By refusing to play the game as a different role, you're missing out on way more than achievements. You're missing out on part of the game.

Agreed. Though, I suspect the OP would say that they want the game to be such that you can complete it 100% w/o having to do anything they find objectionable.

[Brian Chung]

Part of the reason for some of them making you go out of your way to pull off is that it exposes an alternate tactic that one would normally not use for whatever reason, and advances your knowledge of the game.



For instance, you craft a trap and get the achievement for it. Yay. Most people might just sell it off right away for money, but someone might decide to use it, since hey, it's there. They realize how useful traps can be, and thus the player now makes more frequent use of it to aid in encounters. Same for the various spell groups or talents like Arrow of Slaying.



I don't know about you, but I dislike achievements you get during the course of the game, as it reduces any sense of, well, achieving anything if you're just going to get it anyway.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Brian Chung wrote...

Part of the reason for some of them making you go out of your way to pull off is that it exposes an alternate tactic that one would normally not use for whatever reason, and advances your knowledge of the game.

For instance, you craft a trap and get the achievement for it. Yay. Most people might just sell it off right away for money, but someone might decide to use it, since hey, it's there. They realize how useful traps can be, and thus the player now makes more frequent use of it to aid in encounters. Same for the various spell groups or talents like Arrow of Slaying.

I don't know about you, but I dislike achievements you get during the course of the game, as it reduces any sense of, well, achieving anything if you're just going to get it anyway.

I agree with this 100%  An achievement you don't have to do anything to achieve is kind of pointless.  Some of the stranger achievements in this game have made e go out of my way to try new things....like unlock thaumaturgist by taking all 16 spirit spells....and realizing that it is possibly the most redundant school of magic ever. 

Modifié par Sloth Of Doom, 08 décembre 2009 - 10:46 .

[DragonRageGT]

I like the fact that I will not have all possible achievements points/seals unless I try different play styles too. Right now that is a far away goal since I can't stop playing my human warrior 2 handed and enjoying it so much in my 2nd run that I'm even considering recreating him, AGAIN, for a third run in NM Plus mod! (half a run in Normal, full run in Hard and lvl19 now, half run in NM).

[Mavkiel]

Honestly, I dont get the idea of achievments in general. What is the bloody point? *sighs* Just another thing I hate about consoles, the introduction of the "achievment" idea.

At least in mass effect there was some point in them, in that they could alter how you replayed the game.

[Curlain]

Yep, like I said before I don't really see the point, so I just ignore whatever achievement comes up ingame, who cares what I did when I play, and it doesn't really matter to me what others achieve in their games or at what difficulties either.  I'm interested in talking about plot issues or RP experiences in forums like this, but that's like discussing your favourite book/movie etc, not trying to compare scores.   It's a single player game. It's just there to be fun for you, so I do whatever interests me or my character might do, I don't feel a compelling need to RP in a different way or do something just to get an achievement symbol, but because I want to, or it makes sense for my charater (or companion character to do it).

I don't know, I just don't see the reason, it's not like we're keeping score with anyone, we just play an SP game for our own enjoyment

Modifié par Curlain, 08 décembre 2009 - 11:27 .

[shadow king 3]

its hard for me to play this game when my parents are home :-

[bzombo]

IgotTheMeat wrote...

I wanted to write this to express my disappointment in the achievements for DA:O.  What i don't like about them is how i am forced to play a certain way to get most of them.  The only one i didn't get for Mass Effect was the rengade one because i just couldn't stomach playing a character who was that much of an ass and i am cool with that as i was able to get most of the ME achievements by playing the way i wanted to play.  Well in DA:O not only am i forced to play an evil character to get most of the achievements but my character is also forced into homosexual relationships?  I like the idea of achievements.  However, if the only way to get most of them in DA;O is to play an evil homosexual, character, that just doesn't appeal to me.  I think the best approach to achievements is by rewarding the player by playing the game, not how they play it.  Let me note right here that i am not against someone if they are gay or lesbian.  I am just against being forced to play such a role if i want to get all the achievements.  If bioware had just made achievements gettable by reaching certain story mile stones reguardless of choice, or having achievements for using certain skills, spells, combos, I think it would have been much better.  Just my 2 cents.

are you serious? they're achievements! i try to be fairly understanding that people have their own opinions about games and such, but when someone actually complains about having to do something to get an achievement (that is what an achievement is for, right? doing something specific for that achievement?) that's just ridiculous. you don't want it? don't do it? achievements are for more than just you. some people may want to play a gay character and do the gay romance. i don't, but others do. why do you think you're special enough to only give achievements for what is convenient for you?

[LaztRezort]

For anyone who doesn't understand why game developers put achievements in games, or for thoughts on what makes for good use of them, this is one writer's take on it over at Gamasutra.

I'll even quote from the article:

"Regardless of whether you call them achievements, trophies,
badges, medals, or whatever, these digital rewards act best as incentives for
gamers to finish games, try out new features and modes of play, and experiment
with the offered tools."
"

Actually, kind of an interesting read, whether you entirely agree or not.

[Stitch808]

Brian Chung wrote...

Part of the reason for some of them making you go out of your way to pull off is that it exposes an alternate tactic that one would normally not use for whatever reason, and advances your knowledge of the game.

For instance, you craft a trap and get the achievement for it. Yay. Most people might just sell it off right away for money, but someone might decide to use it, since hey, it's there. They realize how useful traps can be, and thus the player now makes more frequent use of it to aid in encounters. Same for the various spell groups or talents like Arrow of Slaying.

I don't know about you, but I dislike achievements you get during the course of the game, as it reduces any sense of, well, achieving anything if you're just going to get it anyway.

I'm glad you've mentioned this, as I too feel some of these "achievements" are just something akin to little gold stars given to a toddler for each successful potty session. Give him one, give him many, does it really make a difference in the grand scheme?
 
I mean, unlock a chest, ooh, a gold star. Would someone really think, "ah, it's too much trouble to get a rogue/mechanical talent here to get me some unneeded loot"? Or, kill 100 darkspawn, ooh, another gold star. These are just things that are normally done in the course of the game, right?  Or is there a gold star for killing less than 100 darkspawn in a playthrough?

How about an achievement for successfully moving your PC 1 step forward? I mean, isn't that important? Or, perhaps, opening your inventory screen? I know I'm being facetious here, but just giving out mho on how critical these achievements are when constrasted against the larger picture of the game.

[purplesunset]

Brian Chung wrote...

Part of the reason for some of them making you go out of your way to pull off is that it exposes an alternate tactic that one would normally not use for whatever reason, and advances your knowledge of the game.

For instance, you craft a trap and get the achievement for it. Yay. Most people might just sell it off right away for money, but someone might decide to use it, since hey, it's there. They realize how useful traps can be, and thus the player now makes more frequent use of it to aid in encounters. Same for the various spell groups or talents like Arrow of Slaying.

I don't know about you, but I dislike achievements you get during the course of the game, as it reduces any sense of, well, achieving anything if you're just going to get it anyway.

This is a classic NT response. Sometimes I keep forgetting that game developers are mostly INT's and a couple INF's. We have a distinct way of looking at the world.

[IgotTheMeat]

It's not like i'm some achievement crazy gamer. Infact the only game i have ever or since cared about achievements is Mass Effect. Look it up if you don't believe me. gamertag IgotTheMeat7 At the end of the day i was hoping that DA:O, being made by Bioware, would again inspire me to "get all the achievements" much like ME. I liked the achievements for ME, they are the only case of achievements that i can say actually added fun to any game i have ever played on xbox. I cannot say the same for DA:O. To me it was a step backwards from the ME achievements. While using sigularity 75 or 100 times is ok with me, because i never thought adept would be fun(suprise it was!), requiring me to play a female character or have a homosexual romance does not add fun for me. This is just my plain and honest opinion. Why not have just one romance achievement attainable no matter whom you romance? At the end of the day it really isn't that big of a deal i just won't be getting all the chevos but it just sucks that it has to be that way, because i was hoping that i would be having alot of fun getting them like i did in ME. .

[Palathas]

Brian Chung wrote...

Part of the reason for some of them making you go out of your way to pull off is that it exposes an alternate tactic that one would normally not use for whatever reason, and advances your knowledge of the game.

For instance, you craft a trap and get the achievement for it. Yay. Most people might just sell it off right away for money, but someone might decide to use it, since hey, it's there. They realize how useful traps can be, and thus the player now makes more frequent use of it to aid in encounters. Same for the various spell groups or talents like Arrow of Slaying.

I don't know about you, but I dislike achievements you get during the course of the game, as it reduces any sense of, well, achieving anything if you're just going to get it anyway.

Some of those hidden ones I'm doing all sorts of things to see if I can get them. It also encourages multiple play throughs as I really couldn't see anyone getting them all with a single playthrough. Actually you can't get them all in a single play through as some are gender specific. Well not without cheating anyway.

Modifié par Palathas, 09 décembre 2009 - 03:32 .

[Eurypterid]

IgotTheMeat wrote...

It's not like i'm some achievement crazy gamer. Infact the only game i have ever or since cared about achievements is Mass Effect. Look it up if you don't believe me. gamertag IgotTheMeat7 At the end of the day i was hoping that DA:O, being made by Bioware, would again inspire me to "get all the achievements" much like ME. I liked the achievements for ME, they are the only case of achievements that i can say actually added fun to any game i have ever played on xbox. I cannot say the same for DA:O. To me it was a step backwards from the ME achievements. While using sigularity 75 or 100 times is ok with me, because i never thought adept would be fun(suprise it was!), requiring me to play a female character or have a homosexual romance does not add fun for me. This is just my plain and honest opinion. Why not have just one romance achievement attainable no matter whom you romance? At the end of the day it really isn't that big of a deal i just won't be getting all the chevos but it just sucks that it has to be that way, because i was hoping that i would be having alot of fun getting them like i did in ME. .

Other than the two romance achievements you can't get without going the female PC or homosexual route, what achievements do you feel you can't get? If it's only those two, where's the issue? It's a very similar thing to shrugging your shoulders on the Renegade achievement in ME, is it not?

[Rishavs]

IgotTheMeat wrote...

I wanted to write this to express my disappointment in the achievements for DA:O.  What i don't like about them is how i am forced to play a certain way to get most of them.  The only one i didn't get for Mass Effect was the rengade one because i just couldn't stomach playing a character who was that much of an ass and i am cool with that as i was able to get most of the ME achievements by playing the way i wanted to play.  Well in DA:O not only am i forced to play an evil character to get most of the achievements but my character is also forced into homosexual relationships?  I like the idea of achievements.  However, if the only way to get most of them in DA;O is to play an evil homosexual, character, that just doesn't appeal to me.  I think the best approach to achievements is by rewarding the player by playing the game, not how they play it.  Let me note right here that i am not against someone if they are gay or lesbian.  I am just against being forced to play such a role if i want to get all the achievements.  If bioware had just made achievements gettable by reaching certain story mile stones reguardless of choice, or having achievements for using certain skills, spells, combos, I think it would have been much better.  Just my 2 cents.

if you aren't into evil "homosexual" characters, why would you want to get that achievement.
and be careful. people can see your achievements here. even homosexual ones.

[IgotTheMeat]

I guess on alot of the quests i just can't see myself completing them other then the way i did. I can't really see killing some possessed little kid or allowing his mother to sacrifice herself if there is a better option. I can't set foot in every part of the world if i don't want to assassinate people for the crows. My characters always end up on the goodest side of good. With this approach i was able to get most of the ME achievements and had alot of fun doing so. I have tried to play evil characters really i have but i just don't find them fun. It seems like if i dont want to play an evil bastard, or a female, or get into a homosexual relationship then chevo wise i'm screwed. Which is ok i'll just skip them. I know i'm not alone and i hope some marketing guy or gal reads this for future iterations of DA. I guess i look fondly back at the ME achievements they actually added fun to my game. DA:O achievements not so much

[Stuffy38]

purplesunset wrote...

This is a classic NT response. Sometimes I keep forgetting that game developers are mostly INT's and a couple INF's. We have a distinct way of looking at the world.

Purplesunset is talking about Myers-Briggs personality test for those who are curious.  A method of pigeon holing people into nice little boxes.

[vicariouscheese]

Palathas wrote...

Brian Chung wrote...

Part of the reason for some of them making you go out of your way to pull off is that it exposes an alternate tactic that one would normally not use for whatever reason, and advances your knowledge of the game.

For instance, you craft a trap and get the achievement for it. Yay. Most people might just sell it off right away for money, but someone might decide to use it, since hey, it's there. They realize how useful traps can be, and thus the player now makes more frequent use of it to aid in encounters. Same for the various spell groups or talents like Arrow of Slaying.

I don't know about you, but I dislike achievements you get during the course of the game, as it reduces any sense of, well, achieving anything if you're just going to get it anyway.

Some of those hidden ones I'm doing all sorts of things to see if I can get them. It also encourages multiple play throughs as I really couldn't see anyone getting them all with a single playthrough. Actually you can't get them all in a single play through as some are gender specific. Well not without cheating anyway.

also alot of the obvious ones arent really feasible in one playthrough (siding with one army or the other, i mean yeah you can reload saves, but do you really want to do the circle twice in the same playthrough?)

[graylshaped]

IgotTheMeat wrote...

I guess on alot of the quests i just can't see myself completing them other then the way i did. I can't really see killing some possessed little kid or allowing his mother to sacrifice herself if there is a better option. I can't set foot in every part of the world if i don't want to assassinate people for the crows. My characters always end up on the goodest side of good. With this approach i was able to get most of the ME achievements and had alot of fun doing so. I have tried to play evil characters really i have but i just don't find them fun. It seems like if i dont want to play an evil bastard, or a female, or get into a homosexual relationship then chevo wise i'm screwed. Which is ok i'll just skip them. I know i'm not alone and i hope some marketing guy or gal reads this for future iterations of DA. I guess i look fondly back at the ME achievements they actually added fun to my game. DA:O achievements not so much

Great news, then: if a different approach or playstyle is not to your liking, then you can forego those achievements you don't enjoy exactly the same way you passed by the renegade achievement in your beloved ME, without the enjoyment of gaining those achievements you did like getting lessened in any way. Like you and others, I tend to play "nice," Fable 2 escapades notwithstanding (it wasn't my fault--I was overcome by too much Tenebrous Fairy, and good GOD that woman was whiny, and she always had a headache.  She had to go, and just as well sacrifice her to the pit, particularly since some minor discounting on my massive real estate holdings would tidy up the slate nicely once that darned demon door was opened...oh, wait--is this my outside voice?). 

Where was I?

Oh, yeah.  Don't do what you don't like, and stop feeling resentful that you're not being paid for something you didn't want to do.  Seems you have a healthy way of looking at achievements: if they are fun, go get 'em.  As soon as you realize the pursuit isn't fun (I'm looking at YOU, fifty-seven thousand dead zombies), stop and move on.

Now, if your real issue is that Bioware made you confront your own thinking about sexual bias, that's rather ironic.  It's crystal clear that assaulting the assumptions of bigotry in its many insidious forms is a major theme of the Dragon Age narrative.

[Endurium]

Achievements don't do anything for my character, and they aren't set up per-character, so it's ages before I see an achievement, and it won't be much longer before I never see one again. To me that's a waste of resources. Might as well have spent time trying to save a few more quests from the axe than adding a feature that only means anything to certain people. That's just my feeling on the matter. I'd rather have a tangible benefit for my character in the game world.



As to the romances, I don't care if I don't get the achievement for sleeping with Zevran. Guys aren't my thing. Even when playing a female character (human sultry soundset is cute and I never get tired of hearing it) I still go for Leliana just because the guy behind the character prefers women. :-)

[Rishavs]

I get your point but the achievements were meant to be given across multiple playthrough. The devs expect people to play as rogue, mage etc and so to get all achievements you will have to play as many varied characters. you can't just stick with one goody two shoes character and get all of them. thats the beauty of role playing. i am not sadistic in real life but i love playing a royal ****. or if i feel like, i'll play a holier than thou character. the game is supposed to reward varied and multiple play through. not just playing the same way over and over again.

[khaos974]

IgotTheMeat wrote...

I guess on alot of the quests i just can't see myself completing them other then the way i did. I can't really see killing some possessed little kid or allowing his mother to sacrifice herself if there is a better option. I can't set foot in every part of the world if i don't want to assassinate people for the crows. My characters always end up on the goodest side of good. With this approach i was able to get most of the ME achievements and had alot of fun doing so. I have tried to play evil characters really i have but i just don't find them fun. It seems like if i dont want to play an evil bastard, or a female, or get into a homosexual relationship then chevo wise i'm screwed. Which is ok i'll just skip them. I know i'm not alone and i hope some marketing guy or gal reads this for future iterations of DA. I guess i look fondly back at the ME achievements they actually added fun to my game. DA:O achievements not so much

One of the emphasis of the game is how choices you make affect the game world. I think that achievements in DA:O are meant to show how you played the game, what the choices you made are.

If the player chose to play as what you called an "evil homosexual", their achievements will clearly show that. On the other hand, if they chose to play like you did, their achievements will also reflect their saintly attitude.

You did not care for the "renegade" achievement in ME since it did not fit your philosophy, why should you care for the "zevran" or "killed the elves" one? If you can live with not getting "renegade", you'll live with not getting "zevran".

[robertthebard]

IgotTheMeat wrote...

I guess the point was missed by the vast majority of responders. It may be that even as clearly as i post it, still many will not see that people like to play the game in different ways. My point is simple. ME achievements didn't pigeon hole me to play the game a certain way. I had fun with that game and getting the achievements at the same time(other then the renegade one which i skipped.) Why couldn't bioware go the same approach with DA:O? Why, if i want to get the romance achievement, am i forced to romance zev as a male or play a female? Why not go the ME route and give me an achievement for just romancing anyone and not everyone? Why not give me achievements for important story milestones reguardless of how i got there? Why force me to play in a way i wouldn't want to, in order to get the achievements? What was my responce in game? I simply skipped most of the achievements so far in DAO, where as in ME i did several play throughs just to enjoy the game and the extra class specific chevos were a nice bonus to the playthrough. I probably won't playthrough DA:O more then say twice. This is just my opinion. I wanted to post to express it. Please responders respect that people may actually want to get achievements. Also respect that people play the game differently then you do.

I read your user name, then your post, and I have to wonder.  It is impossible, just for a sneak peek, to romance Alistair and Morrigan in the same game.  Morrigan will only romance males, and Alistair doesn't swing that way.  You can, however, romance Morrigan, Leliana and Zev in one game, or you can romance Alistair, Zev and Leliana in the same game, while that's a bit ho'ish, it's also fun, I know, I did it.  BTW, it's ho'ish no matter which way you go in those scenarios...

Yes, it's impossible to get the achievements for finishing each of the treaties in all their possible ways in a single play through.  It's also impossible to get all the possible endings in a specific play through.  The fact that you choose not to play a certain way means that you will not get certain achievements, and that's not a flaw in the game.  That's your personal choice, and you're entitled to make that choice.  It is not, however, BioWare's or any one else's fault that you cannot unlock an "evil" ending to a quest line by playing as a goody two shoes.  This is squarely on you.

I read your post, and I understood it.  You prefer to not play a female character, and therefore, you prefer to not get the romances with Zev and Alistair, since you have to be female to romance Alistair, and you will also not get the achievement for getting all the romances completed.  This is not a flaw with the game, but the end result of your playstyle, decisions.  I am a 46 year old card carrying hetero male.  My most famous NWN's character was female, because I live up to your user name.  I am not so insecure in my manhood that playing a female character gives me issues.  However, if it did, I surely wouldn't come here and call attention to my insecurities by pointing fingers at BioWare.