1357 réponses à ce sujet

[CavScout]

ohupthis wrote...

DTKT wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Tigerman123 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Tigerman123 wrote...

I don't understand why people don't spam IT threads with that DLC ad you get at the end of the game, Bioware explicitly say that the Reapers are beaten, so what the hell is there to talk about?

"One more story"

Ever heard of a prequel? Authors aren't obliged to to write their stories in chronological order :/

Besides the ad and the Stargazer don't say that Shepard became a hero as result of something extraneous to the narrative, but as a result of events presented in the game...

Prequels suck and that's all I'll say about that.

That's a pretty poor argument.

"I don't like it so it can't be true!"

UH WHAT?!!

Could you find some jrpg forum to spew in, you're just being annoying for the sake of being annoying, go away.

Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle.

[KingZayd]

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

Cavscout The destroy choice is still presented because Shepard is not indoctrinated, you are at the end stages of being indoctrinated. You will either become indoctrinated by choosing control or synthesis or you will literally destroy idoctrinations grasp and reapers by choosing that option.

According to IT, it's all fake anyways. It's a dream. Why offer an actuall solution? Hell, why is Destroy sometimes the ONLY option?

IT wants us to believe the Shep is so far along in indoctrination that he can't see reality but yet we are to believe the Reapers actually allow him to stop them.

EVERY Indoctrinated subject WE have encountered through ALL 3 friggen games, has HAD moments of RESISTING indoc, how is that so hard to see? Saren resisted long enough, to shoot himself. Benezia gave us VITAL information, in a MOMENT of resistance!!!!!!!!

WAKE THE F***-UP, GAH!! Why, oh why IS it NOT possible to beotch-slap through the internet?

In IT, the entire scene on the Citadel/Crucible is a not real. Shep never snaps out of it. All the choices are made in the "dream state". According to IT he resists nothing... he simply picks one of the choices before him.

He either sticks on the path of destroying the reapers as he should, or he REJECTS destruction of the reapers in favour of some other choice. his choice doesn't affect him waking up. (just because we only see it in the destruction ending, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to the others). He's unconscious, it just affects his mental state when he wakes up.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

ev76 wrote...

KingZayd nicely put. Destroy option rejects indoctrination, choosing control or synthesis embraces it.

Yep I like it as well.

[CavScout]

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

Cavscout The destroy choice is still presented because Shepard is not indoctrinated, you are at the end stages of being indoctrinated. You will either become indoctrinated by choosing control or synthesis or you will literally destroy idoctrinations grasp and reapers by choosing that option.

According to IT, it's all fake anyways. It's a dream. Why offer an actuall solution? Hell, why is Destroy sometimes the ONLY option?

IT wants us to believe the Shep is so far along in indoctrination that he can't see reality but yet we are to believe the Reapers actually allow him to stop them.

EVERY Indoctrinated subject WE have encountered through ALL 3 friggen games, has HAD moments of RESISTING indoc, how is that so hard to see? Saren resisted long enough, to shoot himself. Benezia gave us VITAL information, in a MOMENT of resistance!!!!!!!!

WAKE THE F***-UP, GAH!! Why, oh why IS it NOT possible to beotch-slap through the internet?

In IT, the entire scene on the Citadel/Crucible is a not real. Shep never snaps out of it. All the choices are made in the "dream state". According to IT he resists nothing... he simply picks one of the choices before him.

He either sticks on the path of destroying the reapers as he should, or he REJECTS destruction of the reapers in favour of some other choice. his choice doesn't affect him waking up. (just because we only see it in the destruction ending, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to the others). He's unconscious, it just affects his mental state when he wakes up.

Again, if it's all a dream state, created by the Reapers, why are they putting in the "Win" button for Shep to use? Why doesn't the Catalyst just omit the Destroy ending option?

[balance5050]

ohupthis wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

--smooth editing there....

Clarification can mean anything. IT just happens to not change the ending but only clarify them. No "massive battle and long missions" needed what so ever.

(Although that would be a pleasant surprise that would redeem bioware for most the fans.)

A few perhaps, but myself on the other hand, would NOT want some half-arsed battle-cut-scene, with Harby.

No don't put words in my mouth, all I want from this abomination is knowing what happened, as a result of EVERYTHING we just did, not some inane badly editted cut-scenes.

?
I wasn't putting words in your mouth.

No not you personally, sorry that came out wrong.

i was referring to our collective Anti-IT bunch.

No worries, things get heated in here.

I personally like debating this because of the metagame. More then looking for clues I feel like we're shepard trying to convince the council about the reaper threat, or trying to convince Saren that he's indoctrinated. It's fun to me!

Don't let the indoctrinated affect your resolve ohupthis, keep fighting the good fight!

[CavScout]

ohupthis wrote...

ev76 wrote...

KingZayd nicely put. Destroy option rejects indoctrination, choosing control or synthesis embraces it.

Yep I like it as well.

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

Cavscout The destroy choice is still presented because Shepard is not indoctrinated, you are at the end stages of being indoctrinated. You will either become indoctrinated by choosing control or synthesis or you will literally destroy idoctrinations grasp and reapers by choosing that option.

According to IT, it's all fake anyways. It's a dream. Why offer an actuall solution? Hell, why is Destroy sometimes the ONLY option?

IT wants us to believe the Shep is so far along in indoctrination that he can't see reality but yet we are to believe the Reapers actually allow him to stop them.

EVERY Indoctrinated subject WE have encountered through ALL 3 friggen games, has HAD moments of RESISTING indoc, how is that so hard to see? Saren resisted long enough, to shoot himself. Benezia gave us VITAL information, in a MOMENT of resistance!!!!!!!!

WAKE THE F***-UP, GAH!! Why, oh why IS it NOT possible to beotch-slap through the internet?

In IT, the entire scene on the Citadel/Crucible is a not real. Shep never snaps out of it. All the choices are made in the "dream state". According to IT he resists nothing... he simply picks one of the choices before him.

He either sticks on the path of destroying the reapers as he should, or he REJECTS destruction of the reapers in favour of some other choice. his choice doesn't affect him waking up. (just because we only see it in the destruction ending, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to the others). He's unconscious, it just affects his mental state when he wakes up.

Again, if it's all a dream state, created by the Reapers, why are they putting in the "Win" button for Shep to use? Why doesn't the Catalyst just omit the Destroy ending option?

The mind always creates a "way out" or "another solution" the hallucination isn't Harbinger's doing alone, it's also coming from Shepard, built around the framework of what we already know, if the choice wasn't present, Shepard would know something was up and the simulation would fail.

In other words, Shepard must choose to side with the reapers as does Saren, Benezia, and TIM.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

KingZayd wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Er... it's not quite the same thing. Shepard has first-hand experience in-game and concrete proof that these things have happened. IT is a theory for a reason- not because it's bad, not because it's stupid, but because the evidence isn't air-tight the way Shepard's is in game.

Plus Shepard was provably indoctrinated not 5 minutes before he met Justin Beiber.  Or had he always wanted to shoot Anderson?

The REALLY weird thing about that is TIM was studying how to control reaper forces, not organics.

reaper forces are organics, with synthetic parts. He was studying indoctrination.

Point being he shouldn't have been able to control Shepard the way he did.

Why not? TIM was being 'controlled' by the reapers, so TIM was merely the 'conduit' to Sheps' mind, hence the shot being fired into Anderson.

Because, while the indoctrinees can be controlled like puppets, they are basically zombies when it comes to that stage. Shepard was no zombie. Also, if Shepard wasn't already indoctrinated, then TIM had to have indoctrinated Shepard pretty quickly, in which case he would end up.. basically braindead. While Shepard doesn't seem particularly bright after this point, he's certianly not braindead.

Hence the real reason WHY Shep is STILL IN LONDON!!!!!!!!! FRAK!!!!!!!!!!

we never entered that beam, AHH! We haven't fired the REAL Crucible, just what Harby wants us to see.

imagination is a terrible thing to waste, unless you haven't one at all.

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

ev76 wrote...

KingZayd nicely put. Destroy option rejects indoctrination, choosing control or synthesis embraces it.

Yep I like it as well.

*snip*

Considering that perfectly describes the Catalysts logic, I'm not surprised.

Modifié par balance5050, 05 mai 2012 - 08:00 .

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Again, if it's all a dream state, created by the Reapers, why are they putting in the "Win" button for Shep to use? Why doesn't the Catalyst just omit the Destroy ending option?

The mind always creates a "way out" or "another solution" the hallucination isn't Harbinger's doing alone, it's also coming from Shepard, built around the framework of what we already know, if the choice wasn't present, Shepard would know something was up and the simulation would fail.

In other words, Shepard must choose to side with the reapers as does Saren, Benezia, and TIM.

You're just making things up now....

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

ev76 wrote...

KingZayd nicely put. Destroy option rejects indoctrination, choosing control or synthesis embraces it.

Yep I like it as well.

Considering that perfectly describes the Catalysts logic, I'm not surprised.

One may disagree with the Catalyst, but the logic it uses is not circular.... you may what to use a dictionary.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

The game ends when you make the final choice. Your either indoctrinated or you fought off indoctrination and destroyed the reapers.

Why is it the more poorly you do, gathering EMS, the better chances you have of destroying the Reapers? IE, you don't bother gathering military forces and destroy is the only option presented....

Because YOU aren't worthy of the other 2 options, you never presented a strong enough presence to be considered for the JOB.

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

ev76 wrote...

KingZayd nicely put. Destroy option rejects indoctrination, choosing control or synthesis embraces it.

Yep I like it as well.

*snip*

Considering that perfectly describes the Catalysts logic, I'm not surprised.

One may disagree with the Catalyst, but the logic it uses is not circular.... you may what to use a dictionary.

Wut? I think youre confused....

[CavScout]

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

The game ends when you make the final choice. Your either indoctrinated or you fought off indoctrination and destroyed the reapers.

Why is it the more poorly you do, gathering EMS, the better chances you have of destroying the Reapers? IE, you don't bother gathering military forces and destroy is the only option presented....

Because YOU aren't worthy of the other 2 options, you never presented a strong enough presence to be considered for the JOB.

LOL, so they let you destroy them instead...

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

The game ends when you make the final choice. Your either indoctrinated or you fought off indoctrination and destroyed the reapers.

Why is it the more poorly you do, gathering EMS, the better chances you have of destroying the Reapers? IE, you don't bother gathering military forces and destroy is the only option presented....

Because YOU aren't worthy of the other 2 options, you never presented a strong enough presence to be considered for the JOB.

LOL, so they let you destroy them instead...

Let you "think" you destroyed them, you're actually just dead.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Indoctrination is akin to mind control... what happened to Shep and Anderson wasn't that.

Speaking of Indoctrination^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, uh somebody slept through this lesson, again?!!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!   REALLY!!!!!!!!??

WAIT!!, uh did we just play the same ME3??!

You threw a tantrum but didn't offer anything besides that.

Because of the lack of oxygen reaching your synopsis.

[balance5050]

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Indoctrination is akin to mind control... what happened to Shep and Anderson wasn't that.

Speaking of Indoctrination^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, uh somebody slept through this lesson, again?!!

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!   REALLY!!!!!!!!??

WAIT!!, uh did we just play the same ME3??!

You threw a tantrum but didn't offer anything besides that.

Because of the lack of oxygen reaching your synopsis.

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

One may disagree with the Catalyst, but the logic it uses is not circular.... you may what to use a dictionary.

Wut? I think youre confused....

Like IT, just because you think it doesn't make it true.

The Catalyst doesn't use circular logic for why the Reapers do what they do.

[Raiil]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

The game ends when you make the final choice. Your either indoctrinated or you fought off indoctrination and destroyed the reapers.

Why is it the more poorly you do, gathering EMS, the better chances you have of destroying the Reapers? IE, you don't bother gathering military forces and destroy is the only option presented....

Because YOU aren't worthy of the other 2 options, you never presented a strong enough presence to be considered for the JOB.

LOL, so they let you destroy them instead...

Let you "think" you destroyed them, you're actually just dead.

Then what's the deal with Stargazer and his mini-me?

[SubAstris]

ohupthis wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

ev76 wrote...

Funny how the biggest weapon the reapers have, indoctrination is dissmissed so quickly by people. Why shouldn't the reapers attempt to indoctrinate the biggest threat to them? All that end sequence could of happened real time. Edi explained to you how she had to fight Eva core for the body. Shepard fought the reaper virus while in a pod not moving. Then there is the three choices where the creator of the reapers is giving you a choice to destroy it's creations, control them or synthesis them. Two of those options where the solution given by two indoctrinated people (saren and tim) the third is seemingly the option that we where playing for the whole time (destroy).
It also felt at the end like I lost control of my Shepard, as in not enough dialogue. There is also the codex for indoctrination. In the end Is far fetch to think that one of the biggest weapons the reapers have was attemtpted on Shepard? Or is it far fetched that the biggest weapon the reapors had was never attempted on Shepard?

You will find that most people do not dismiss the idea of the Reapers wanting to indoctrinate Shep, but of course that is very different to it actually happening

Yep, a god like presence that can be viewed with superstitious awe trying to convince you that you can either control the reapers or combine organics and synthetics into an ultimate life form doesn't sound like an indoctrination attempt at all.... that was sarcasm btw.

Lol wut, "superstituos awe", you're describing the Catalyst in accurate terms just to support IT. The Catalyst doesn't convibce you to pick anyway, just lays out the information you need to make an informed choice

Informed, my ass............you're picking blue or green is idiotic, that's for sure, and this isn't any substantiated proof, this is merely the star-twit, decieving you into false hope. Misguided hope, that you truly believe what that ingrate-kid is telling you.

What are you on? You have no proof the Catalyst is lying on purpose

[incinerator950]

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

ev76 wrote...

KingZayd nicely put. Destroy option rejects indoctrination, choosing control or synthesis embraces it.

Yep I like it as well.

snip

Considering that perfectly describes the Catalysts logic, I'm not surprised.

One may disagree with the Catalyst, but the logic it uses is not circular.... you may what to use a dictionary.

So let me get this straight, you don't agree with the logic of I.T., but you agree with the logic of the catalyst?

INDOCTRINATED PRESENCE DETECTED!!!!!

Modifié par balance5050, 05 mai 2012 - 08:06 .

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

The game ends when you make the final choice. Your either indoctrinated or you fought off indoctrination and destroyed the reapers.

Why is it the more poorly you do, gathering EMS, the better chances you have of destroying the Reapers? IE, you don't bother gathering military forces and destroy is the only option presented....

Because YOU aren't worthy of the other 2 options, you never presented a strong enough presence to be considered for the JOB.

LOL, so they let you destroy them instead...

Let you "think" you destroyed them, you're actually just dead.

If you're dead, why bother having you dream?

[Raiil]

balance5050 wrote...


So let me get this straight, you don't agree with the logic of I.T., but you agree with the logic of the catalyst?

INDOCTRINATED PRESENCE DETECTED!!!!!

You can think the God Child's logic is wrong and ill-informed and still not agree with I.T. Your question presumes a false either/or scenario.

[SubAstris]

ohupthis wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

I would say that the little dude who controls them seems kinda awe inspiring if you think about it no?

Are control and synthesis not portaryed as optimal compared to destroy?

No

No again, at least not by the Catalyst. It depends on the priorities and thoughts of one's Shepard

So it comes down to what the player knows and believes.... thank you.

Good to see you conceded that the Catalyst doesn't try to persuade you to choose one option or another

OH yes he most certainly does TRY to direct your choice, or more importantly tries to DISSUADE you from choosing Destroy. I will not explain this further, if'n you paid attention to that star-Twit you'd understand this premise.

If you can't provide evidence for your view, there is frankly no point espousing it