1357 réponses à ce sujet

[OH-UP-THIS!]

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Point being he shouldn't have been able to control Shepard the way he did.

Yet, you are clearly wrong.

Or am I? Indoctrination is control of the mind not the body.

May I add something to this?

Subsequently, mind controls the body, hence shooting Anderson was NOT our idea, but TIM/Reaper, control!

Shep and Anderson appear pretty lucid in the scene. They have lost control of the bodies, not their minds.

Are you this daft all the time or just in here?

I would hope it is the latter, otherwise you live on SS and have no other life but in here.

To rebutt your last *thought*, what controls your body? in your case it sounds like what you sit on, amiright?

[Leafs43]

It's apparent cavscout needs to be spoon fed answers.

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

The game ends when you make the final choice. Your either indoctrinated or you fought off indoctrination and destroyed the reapers.

Why is it the more poorly you do, gathering EMS, the better chances you have of destroying the Reapers? IE, you don't bother gathering military forces and destroy is the only option presented....

Because YOU aren't worthy of the other 2 options, you never presented a strong enough presence to be considered for the JOB.

LOL, so they let you destroy them instead...

Let you "think" you destroyed them, you're actually just dead.

If you're dead, why bother having you dream?

You die in the endings at face value anyway.... when a person dies a chemical known as DMT (the dream chemical) is released into the brain. Everything Shep sees after the decision is him coping with what has presented before.

[KingZayd]

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

Cavscout The destroy choice is still presented because Shepard is not indoctrinated, you are at the end stages of being indoctrinated. You will either become indoctrinated by choosing control or synthesis or you will literally destroy idoctrinations grasp and reapers by choosing that option.

According to IT, it's all fake anyways. It's a dream. Why offer an actuall solution? Hell, why is Destroy sometimes the ONLY option?

IT wants us to believe the Shep is so far along in indoctrination that he can't see reality but yet we are to believe the Reapers actually allow him to stop them.

EVERY Indoctrinated subject WE have encountered through ALL 3 friggen games, has HAD moments of RESISTING indoc, how is that so hard to see? Saren resisted long enough, to shoot himself. Benezia gave us VITAL information, in a MOMENT of resistance!!!!!!!!

WAKE THE F***-UP, GAH!! Why, oh why IS it NOT possible to beotch-slap through the internet?

In IT, the entire scene on the Citadel/Crucible is a not real. Shep never snaps out of it. All the choices are made in the "dream state". According to IT he resists nothing... he simply picks one of the choices before him.

He either sticks on the path of destroying the reapers as he should, or he REJECTS destruction of the reapers in favour of some other choice. his choice doesn't affect him waking up. (just because we only see it in the destruction ending, doesn't mean it doesn't happen to the others). He's unconscious, it just affects his mental state when he wakes up.

Again, if it's all a dream state, created by the Reapers, why are they putting in the "Win" button for Shep to use? Why doesn't the Catalyst just omit the Destroy ending option?

This is taking part in his mind. He still wants to destroy. The Starchild is fighting for Shepard's mind, he doesn't already have it. If Shepard doesn't pick destroy because it's not an option, then what's the point? when he wakes up, he'll still prefer destroy. The whole point is that he has to REJECT destruction in favour of the other options. He can't reject it if it's not an option. (unless he already has.. case of the saved collector base, poor war assets Shepard)

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
One may disagree with the Catalyst, but the logic it uses is not circular.... you may what to use a dictionary.

So let me get this straight, you don't agree with the logic of I.T., but you agree with the logic of the catalyst?

INDOCTRINATED PRESENCE DETECTED!!!!!

IT is not logical, relies on extensive circular reasoning just to manufacture "evidence" and is fan-fiction to boot.

The Catalyst's reason is logical. I did not say I agreed with it. I select Destroy for a reason. Logical = / = Agreed With

[pottman]

Why the sudden militant action ITers?

[balance5050]

Leafs43 wrote...

It's apparent cavscout needs to be spoon fed answers.

I feel bad for him, to live life in such a finite way.... tsk tsk tsk.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

ev76 wrote...

KingZayd nicely put. Destroy option rejects indoctrination, choosing control or synthesis embraces it.

Yep I like it as well.

*snip*

Considering that perfectly describes the Catalysts logic, I'm not surprised.

One may disagree with the Catalyst, but the logic it uses is not circular.... you may what to use a dictionary.

Wut? I think youre confused....

What about the Catalyst's logic is exactly circular?

[CavScout]

Valentia X wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


So let me get this straight, you don't agree with the logic of I.T., but you agree with the logic of the catalyst?

INDOCTRINATED PRESENCE DETECTED!!!!!

You can think the God Child's logic is wrong and ill-informed and still not agree with I.T. Your question presumes a false either/or scenario.

Logical fallacies are the basis of IT.

[Leafs43]

pottman wrote...

Why the sudden militant action ITers?

When being harsh to a troll, is that being considered militant?

[SubAstris]

pottman wrote...

Why the sudden militant action ITers?

Because they know they are losing...

[KingZayd]

ohupthis wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Er... it's not quite the same thing. Shepard has first-hand experience in-game and concrete proof that these things have happened. IT is a theory for a reason- not because it's bad, not because it's stupid, but because the evidence isn't air-tight the way Shepard's is in game.

Plus Shepard was provably indoctrinated not 5 minutes before he met Justin Beiber.  Or had he always wanted to shoot Anderson?

The REALLY weird thing about that is TIM was studying how to control reaper forces, not organics.

reaper forces are organics, with synthetic parts. He was studying indoctrination.

Point being he shouldn't have been able to control Shepard the way he did.

Why not? TIM was being 'controlled' by the reapers, so TIM was merely the 'conduit' to Sheps' mind, hence the shot being fired into Anderson.

Because, while the indoctrinees can be controlled like puppets, they are basically zombies when it comes to that stage. Shepard was no zombie. Also, if Shepard wasn't already indoctrinated, then TIM had to have indoctrinated Shepard pretty quickly, in which case he would end up.. basically braindead. While Shepard doesn't seem particularly bright after this point, he's certianly not braindead.

Hence the real reason WHY Shep is STILL IN LONDON!!!!!!!!! FRAK!!!!!!!!!!

we never entered that beam, AHH! We haven't fired the REAL Crucible, just what Harby wants us to see.

imagination is a terrible thing to waste, unless you haven't one at all.

yes, that's my point. TIM's using indoc tech to control you so whether it's real or not, you're indoctrinated before you meet the starchild. However, indoctrination doesn't work that way, so the encounter isn't real.

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
One may disagree with the Catalyst, but the logic it uses is not circular.... you may what to use a dictionary.

So let me get this straight, you don't agree with the logic of I.T., but you agree with the logic of the catalyst?

INDOCTRINATED PRESENCE DETECTED!!!!!

IT is not logical, relies on extensive circular reasoning just to manufacture "evidence" and is fan-fiction to boot.

The Catalyst's reason is logical. I did not say I agreed with it. I select Destroy for a reason. Logical = / = Agreed With

Seems like you have some research to do, a theory doesn't get this popular if it's not logical.

[Leafs43]

SubAstris wrote...

What about the Catalyst's logic is exactly circular?

[balance5050]

SubAstris wrote...

pottman wrote...

Why the sudden militant action ITers?

Because they know they are losing...

Losing what? Only sleep my friend.

[KingZayd]

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

The game ends when you make the final choice. Your either indoctrinated or you fought off indoctrination and destroyed the reapers.

Why is it the more poorly you do, gathering EMS, the better chances you have of destroying the Reapers? IE, you don't bother gathering military forces and destroy is the only option presented....

Because YOU aren't worthy of the other 2 options, you never presented a strong enough presence to be considered for the JOB.

LOL, so they let you destroy them instead...

in your mind. as if they care about that. Not that i agree with this explanation.

[SubAstris]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
One may disagree with the Catalyst, but the logic it uses is not circular.... you may what to use a dictionary.

So let me get this straight, you don't agree with the logic of I.T., but you agree with the logic of the catalyst?

INDOCTRINATED PRESENCE DETECTED!!!!!

IT is not logical, relies on extensive circular reasoning just to manufacture "evidence" and is fan-fiction to boot.

The Catalyst's reason is logical. I did not say I agreed with it. I select Destroy for a reason. Logical = / = Agreed With

Seems like you have some research to do, a theory doesn't get this popular if it's not logical.

WTF???

[pottman]

Leafs43 wrote...

pottman wrote...

Why the sudden militant action ITers?

When being harsh to a troll, is that being considered militant?

So, you're saying people with different opinions are trolls?

[Raiil]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
One may disagree with the Catalyst, but the logic it uses is not circular.... you may what to use a dictionary.

So let me get this straight, you don't agree with the logic of I.T., but you agree with the logic of the catalyst?

INDOCTRINATED PRESENCE DETECTED!!!!!

IT is not logical, relies on extensive circular reasoning just to manufacture "evidence" and is fan-fiction to boot.

The Catalyst's reason is logical. I did not say I agreed with it. I select Destroy for a reason. Logical = / = Agreed With

Seems like you have some research to do, a theory doesn't get this popular if it's not logical.

Citation, please. 

[CavScout]

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Shep and Anderson appear pretty lucid in the scene. They have lost control of the bodies, not their minds.

Are you this daft all the time or just in here?

I would hope it is the latter, otherwise you live on SS and have no other life but in here.

To rebutt your last *thought*, what controls your body? in your case it sounds like what you sit on, amiright?

You must really being feeling as if you're in a untenable position. What else explains your expansive use of ad hominems?

Fact is, Anderson and Shep have lost control of the bodies but not their minds. Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary... or just keep attacking me if it makes you feel better.

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

If you're dead, why bother having you dream?

You die in the endings at face value anyway.... when a person dies a chemical known as DMT (the dream chemical) is released into the brain. Everything Shep sees after the decision is him coping with what has presented before.

Can you not just make things up that happened in game, just once? Please?

[SubAstris]

Leafs43 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

What about the Catalyst's logic is exactly circular?

But if you actually hear what the Catalyst says then you would realise that this is an incorrect representation of his argument. He has says he will kill advanced life with synthetic-organics machines (Reapers), living the less advanced races to continue. That is not a circular argument.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

KingZayd wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Point being he shouldn't have been able to control Shepard the way he did.

Yet, you are clearly wrong.

Or am I? Indoctrination is control of the mind not the body.

May I add something to this?

Subsequently, mind controls the body, hence shooting Anderson was NOT our idea, but TIM/Reaper, control!

this is true: however, Shepard's mind wasn't being controlled in that scene. He was arguing with TIM and was even able to convince him to shoot his brains out. Unless you believe TIM secretly wanted to die/ The Reapers wanted their pawn to die. Could be interesting if it was meant to be a whole: Darth Sidious convincing Anakin to kill Count Dookou thing. I'm not sure why they'd do that though?

The body control can't be done without the mind control. And in that that level of mind control causes serious damage. Shepard doesn't seem particularly clever afterwards, but i wouldn't say he's had serious brain damage.

Which GAME is that? It isn't ME3, so point lost, AGAIN ugh, moments of RESISTANCE, clear thinking, it has happened throughout the entire series. Convincing someone to shoot themselves, is both people resisting indoc, and REALIZING TIM screwed up. How hard is that to get thru??

I truly am worried about the stability of some of our members here.

[Leafs43]

pottman wrote...

Leafs43 wrote...

pottman wrote...

Why the sudden militant action ITers?

When being harsh to a troll, is that being considered militant?

So, you're saying people with different opinions are trolls?

If you had read the thread you'd realize that cavscout is asking questions that a 10 year old could answer.

[KingZayd]

SubAstris wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

ev76 wrote...

Funny how the biggest weapon the reapers have, indoctrination is dissmissed so quickly by people. Why shouldn't the reapers attempt to indoctrinate the biggest threat to them? All that end sequence could of happened real time. Edi explained to you how she had to fight Eva core for the body. Shepard fought the reaper virus while in a pod not moving. Then there is the three choices where the creator of the reapers is giving you a choice to destroy it's creations, control them or synthesis them. Two of those options where the solution given by two indoctrinated people (saren and tim) the third is seemingly the option that we where playing for the whole time (destroy).
It also felt at the end like I lost control of my Shepard, as in not enough dialogue. There is also the codex for indoctrination. In the end Is far fetch to think that one of the biggest weapons the reapers have was attemtpted on Shepard? Or is it far fetched that the biggest weapon the reapors had was never attempted on Shepard?

You will find that most people do not dismiss the idea of the Reapers wanting to indoctrinate Shep, but of course that is very different to it actually happening

Yep, a god like presence that can be viewed with superstitious awe trying to convince you that you can either control the reapers or combine organics and synthetics into an ultimate life form doesn't sound like an indoctrination attempt at all.... that was sarcasm btw.

Lol wut, "superstituos awe", you're describing the Catalyst in accurate terms just to support IT. The Catalyst doesn't convibce you to pick anyway, just lays out the information you need to make an informed choice

Informed, my ass............you're picking blue or green is idiotic, that's for sure, and this isn't any substantiated proof, this is merely the star-twit, decieving you into false hope. Misguided hope, that you truly believe what that ingrate-kid is telling you.

What are you on? You have no proof the Catalyst is lying on purpose

You have no reason to trust this self confessed killer of countless trillions, who has killed the Earthchild, probed your mind and selected that very same image, the one that's been haunting your dreams, and worn it.