1357 réponses à ce sujet

[ThinkIntegral]

balance5050 wrote...

I was mistaken about the syntheis, and the smirk may or may not be there. but it does zoom in his face in control and not destroy.

So what if it zooms in on its face.  What does that prove? It's just a zooming in of its face.

[KingZayd]

CavScout wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...
A) You don't even have the courtesy to admit when you lied and were caught.
I don't answer/defend strawmen.

A) I didn't lie. I made a mistake. I'm sorry about that. But I wasn't lying. If i was lying, I wouldn't have linked to the thread that contained proof that what I said about you preferring synthesis was wrong. I clearly linked to it because I thought that you were defending it as the superior option. I've admitted that i made a mistake. I'm not a liar, but i'm not infallible.
again, why is it a strawman? it was just a question where a simple "no." would have sufficed.

A) You did lie. I mean, how can you claim you made a "mistake" yet were still able to link to proof of it? Which do you want?
It's a point I never made. The very definition of a straw man.

At this point the only thing you are proving is, that you are only breathing so you can ARGUE about anything.

you must not be an enjoyable companion, except when you're asleep.

You are quite the troll. I'll give you props there.

"Pot, I would like you to meet Kettle."

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 mai 2012 - 12:17 .

[ThinkIntegral]

balance5050 wrote...

ThinkIntegral wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

If they have no will to live then they aren't sentient.

Or it's willing to kill itself for you by choice or because of the Crucible.

So essentially the catalyst is the program that the reapers follow, and the crucible changed that program. Is this acceptable?

I don't understand what you're trying to get at.

[balance5050]

davishepard wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

If they have no will to live then they aren't sentient.

Because you say so?

Just because they don't care in dying, but to fulfill their objective, doesn't mean they are not sentient.

I guess I was just assuming that because I was using the Geth as an example.

Sentience doesn't mean you have the will to live... got it.

Modifié par balance5050, 06 mai 2012 - 12:19 .

[balance5050]

ThinkIntegral wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

ThinkIntegral wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

If they have no will to live then they aren't sentient.

Or it's willing to kill itself for you by choice or because of the Crucible.

So essentially the catalyst is the program that the reapers follow, and the crucible changed that program. Is this acceptable?

I don't understand what you're trying to get at.

I'm just trying to speculate to what "extent" the catalyst controls the reapers.

[_FLANDERS]

THe contrdiction to IT, THE STARKID HE COULD DO IT BECAUSE HE WAS NOT IT < IF HE WAS NO OP CAN WORK>

[_FLANDERS]

MISSING SAID

[KingZayd]

ThinkIntegral wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

I was mistaken about the syntheis, and the smirk may or may not be there. but it does zoom in his face in control and not destroy.

So what if it zooms in on its face.  What does that prove? It's just a zooming in of its face.

i have tried hard to see this smirk that others have seen, and i can't. His face is too transparent.

[Iconoclaste]

balance5050 wrote...

So essentially the catalyst is the program that the reapers follow, and the crucible changed that program. Is this acceptable?

If the Catalyst is "controlling the Reapers", then it is not stopping them from fighting during his discussion with Shepard, even if he knows at that moment that there are other solutions.

[Raiil]

balance5050 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Can we knock it off with the insults please?

Back on point; regarding the 'God Child is only offering solutions because it doesn't want to die', which may or may not be errornous because we don't know to what level, if any, that it has achieved sentience/sapience, it can also be argued that it offers control and synthesis as viable (re: not wanting the Reapers to win) alternatives that allow for the cycle to be broken.

Taken at face value- and there is no definitive proof that it's being anything but straightforward- control and synthesis also alleviate the 'symptoms' that cause the Reapers to need (by their own thought process) to return and cull civilisations. There is a chance, as likely as any, that the God Child is adjusting for new information and reacting accordingly. If the Reapers truly believe that they are salvation, then control and synthesis allows everyone to survive and the Reapers to leave/be controlled by a 'power' that has proven itself stronger than any other cycle (Shepard) or become part of the galactic fabric via synthesis.

So, at face value, is it safe to assume that the catalyst views control and synthesis as "preferable" to destroy?

Not necessarily. It's difficult to accurately propose the motivations of a whatever God Child Is if we can't even pinpoint what it is. Right now, I'd wager the non-crackpot theories are a) He's Harbinger, trying to manipulate us, he's a super-sophisticated VI working solely off of algorithims (this would be the scenario of least culpability on God Child's part, since it can't 'think'), c) a VI based off of the originators of the Reapers (still not very culpable, but it should be able to answer more questions), d) a very old but true AI, or e) not an AI but something like the Virtual Aliens in Mass Effect.

Without clearly know who or what God Child is, it is impossible to definitevely answer what motivations, if any, it has. Harbinger's motive would be vastly different than a super-sophisticated VI, which in turn would most likely wildly differ from a very old but true AI.

If the God Child's ultimate motivations are to save the Universe, long term at any cost, then I would argue that it would be more likely to offer control and synthesis in a geniune fashion, since it doesn't work against its stated goals. If the God Child's ultimate motivations is to impose order on chaos, then I would argue that IT would be much more likely. Note the ultimate part of the motivations- by this I mean the overarching, long-term, big picture end game, not 'we need to cull the universe every 50k years or so to make sure everything doesn't erupt'. Without knowing much about God Child or its supposed motivations, it is impossible to definitely declare one or the other.

[Joccaren]

balance5050 wrote...

"Even in November, the team wasa working on an ending sequence where you lost control to the reaper"

it WAS a plan at some point, even if it was abandoned.

Including an Indoctrination element where players lost control of their actions to the Reapers was planned. A full blown dream sequence retcon of the last half hour was not.
I can see why it was abandoned though - removing dialogue choice and control from the player at that point wouldn't have any significance, it would be like the rest of the game where they had auto-dialogue and cutscenes do a lot of the stuff.

[ThinkIntegral]

balance5050 wrote...
I'm just trying to speculate to what "extent" the catalyst controls the reapers.

Oh. How do you think that figures into the picture?

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Valentia X wrote...

Can we knock it off with the insults please?

Back on point; regarding the 'God Child is only offering solutions because it doesn't want to die', which may or may not be errornous because we don't know to what level, if any, that it has achieved sentience/sapience, it can also be argued that it offers control and synthesis as viable (re: not wanting the Reapers to win) alternatives that allow for the cycle to be broken.

Taken at face value- and there is no definitive proof that it's being anything but straightforward- control and synthesis also alleviate the 'symptoms' that cause the Reapers to need (by their own thought process) to return and cull civilisations. There is a chance, as likely as any, that the God Child is adjusting for new information and reacting accordingly. If the Reapers truly believe that they are salvation, then control and synthesis allows everyone to survive and the Reapers to leave/be controlled by a 'power' that has proven itself stronger than any other cycle (Shepard) or become part of the galactic fabric via synthesis.

Short answer, no. you're right.

longer answer, it's a crying damn shame, we were even put into this situation to begin with. all this bickering back and forth is attaining NOTHING.

we can't prove (NONE OF US) that anything we ASSume is fact, this just makes us the guineapigs, running in our little wheels hoping bioware will feed us.

[balance5050]

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

So essentially the catalyst is the program that the reapers follow, and the crucible changed that program. Is this acceptable?

If the Catalyst is "controlling the Reapers", then it is not stopping them from fighting during his discussion with Shepard, even if he knows at that moment that there are other solutions.

This is further backed up with the fact that the crucible can be destroyed if you wait to long.

[balance5050]

Joccaren wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"Even in November, the team wasa working on an ending sequence where you lost control to the reaper"

it WAS a plan at some point, even if it was abandoned.

Including an Indoctrination element where players lost control of their actions to the Reapers was planned. A full blown dream sequence retcon of the last half hour was not.
I can see why it was abandoned though - removing dialogue choice and control from the player at that point wouldn't have any significance, it would be like the rest of the game where they had auto-dialogue and cutscenes do a lot of the stuff.

Thats all I was saying, that an indoc elemnt was in the works at one point in time and another.

[balance5050]

I had a lot of fun debating all! I'll be back in a while, got to go watch the avengers (again)

Modifié par balance5050, 06 mai 2012 - 12:25 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

FLANDERS wrote...

MISSING SAID

Try editting your original post, that would be peachy, thank you.

[ThinkIntegral]

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

So essentially the catalyst is the program that the reapers follow, and the crucible changed that program. Is this acceptable?

If the Catalyst is "controlling the Reapers", then it is not stopping them from fighting during his discussion with Shepard, even if he knows at that moment that there are other solutions.

This is further backed up with the fact that the crucible can be destroyed if you wait to long.

So just because it can control the Reapers it must stop the fighting during their conversation? Please elaborate.

[hoodaticus]

DJBare wrote...

Laurencio wrote...


And if they never shipped an ending to the game to begin with then why would that be any less of an outrage? The game just stopped, quite inexplicably, and you're told through back channels, or a message after this abrupt end that the real ending is coming in a DLC, please buy our DLC.

Do you honestly think that would be well recieved?

The EC is free, I think that counts for something, they were certainly pushed for time to get the game released, I don't condone this, but I get it.

I would gladly pay for EC if it fixed all the problems with the ending. $20 even if no new gameplay, easily.

[davishepard]

ThinkIntegral wrote...

So just because it can control the Reapers it must stop the fighting during their conversation? Please elaborate.

I always thought that he mean that he controls the Reapers by simply giving them their generical order to "reap the more advanced organic races of this cycle", and not by "assuming direct control"...

[ThinkIntegral]

davishepard wrote...

ThinkIntegral wrote...

So just because it can control the Reapers it must stop the fighting during their conversation? Please elaborate.

I always thought that he mean that he controls the Reapers by simply giving them their generical order to "reap the more advanced organic races of this cycle", and not by "assuming direct control"...

Well I'm just wondering why the Catalyst must tell the Reapers to stop fightiing at that moment in order to show that it's either real or telling the truth, which I believe what they're asserting to show that the Catalyst is fake or lying.  I'm having a hard time following.

[KingZayd]

ThinkIntegral wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

So essentially the catalyst is the program that the reapers follow, and the crucible changed that program. Is this acceptable?

If the Catalyst is "controlling the Reapers", then it is not stopping them from fighting during his discussion with Shepard, even if he knows at that moment that there are other solutions.

This is further backed up with the fact that the crucible can be destroyed if you wait to long.

So just because it can control the Reapers it must stop the fighting during their conversation? Please elaborate.

If it genuinely believes the Shepard's presence proves that the solution won't work any more,  then why keep at it? Every moment the fighting continues would be wasted lives on both sides.

[ThinkIntegral]

KingZayd wrote...

ThinkIntegral wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

So essentially the catalyst is the program that the reapers follow, and the crucible changed that program. Is this acceptable?

If the Catalyst is "controlling the Reapers", then it is not stopping them from fighting during his discussion with Shepard, even if he knows at that moment that there are other solutions.

This is further backed up with the fact that the crucible can be destroyed if you wait to long.

So just because it can control the Reapers it must stop the fighting during their conversation? Please elaborate.

If it genuinely believes the Shepard's presence proves that the solution won't work any more,  then why keep at it? Every moment the fighting continues would be wasted lives on both sides.

Because it can't programmatically stop until Shepard chooses a new solution based on the change(s) the Crucible made to it?

[KingZayd]

ThinkIntegral wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

ThinkIntegral wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

So essentially the catalyst is the program that the reapers follow, and the crucible changed that program. Is this acceptable?

If the Catalyst is "controlling the Reapers", then it is not stopping them from fighting during his discussion with Shepard, even if he knows at that moment that there are other solutions.

This is further backed up with the fact that the crucible can be destroyed if you wait to long.

So just because it can control the Reapers it must stop the fighting during their conversation? Please elaborate.

If it genuinely believes the Shepard's presence proves that the solution won't work any more,  then why keep at it? Every moment the fighting continues would be wasted lives on both sides.

Because it can't programmatically stop until Shepard chooses a new solution based on the change(s) the Crucible made to it?

it's a hardware change. why does that force it to let the Shepard choose?

[ThinkIntegral]

KingZayd wrote...

ThinkIntegral wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

ThinkIntegral wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Iconoclaste wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

So essentially the catalyst is the program that the reapers follow, and the crucible changed that program. Is this acceptable?

If the Catalyst is "controlling the Reapers", then it is not stopping them from fighting during his discussion with Shepard, even if he knows at that moment that there are other solutions.

This is further backed up with the fact that the crucible can be destroyed if you wait to long.

So just because it can control the Reapers it must stop the fighting during their conversation? Please elaborate.

If it genuinely believes the Shepard's presence proves that the solution won't work any more,  then why keep at it? Every moment the fighting continues would be wasted lives on both sides.

Because it can't programmatically stop until Shepard chooses a new solution based on the change(s) the Crucible made to it?

it's a hardware change. why does that force it to let the Shepard choose?

A change in, hijacking or intercepting of logical gates to alter its computational outcomes?