1357 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Again, you are ascribing capabilities to the Catalyst not evident in the game. You're assuming, direct active control over the Reapers by the Catalyst and you are assuming free-will (or no restraints imposed) allowing the Catalyst to do whatever it wants. Neither is in the game, nor hinted at. In fact, the Catalyst is clearly limited in what it can do. It flat out states it can't change the solution on it's own.

In short, if you stop making up things the Catalyst can do, you'll then not have to be all confused on why it did not do what you supposed it could do.

No, i'm assuming control in any sense of the word. if he can't control, them, then clearly he doesn't control them. Free will of the catalyst allowing it to do what it wants? "I think we'd prefer to be left alone". "No. you can't". Not my programming doesn't allow me to do this. He refuses to stop.

He says he can't choose one of the new possibilities himself. He does claim that he controls the reapers. In what manner does he control the reapers then, that means he can't really control them?

Again, you are presuming a level of control not evident in game. Why?

I'm assuming there is a level of control. Why? because he says there is.

My TV's remote control can control the TV. Yet, it doesn't do jack without out me telling it.

LOL, and who tells the Starchild what to do with the reapers? What has it been doing all these millions of years?

[ev76]

Cavescout the end result of your goal to destroy the reapers is the same! In both destroy endings. Low ems and high ems.

P.s. Stop being so sensitive! I was not insulting you. How was I insulting you?

[Chrillze]

The IT is TRUE if you don't believe in the IT you are deluded

[CavScout]

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...
My TV's remote control can control the TV. Yet, it doesn't do jack without out me telling it.

LOL, and who tells the Starchild what to do with the reapers? What has it been doing all these millions of years?

While we certainly don't know the entire pre-history of the ME games, it doesn't change the fact that the Catalyst doesn't have free-will and control to do whatever it wants to do.

[CavScout]

ev76 wrote...

Cavescout the end result of your goal to destroy the reapers is the same! In both destroy endings. Low ems and high ems.

P.s. Stop being so sensitive! I was not insulting you. How was I insulting you?

Congrats on the gold star for being obtuse.

[KingZayd]

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...
My TV's remote control can control the TV. Yet, it doesn't do jack without out me telling it.

LOL, and who tells the Starchild what to do with the reapers? What has it been doing all these millions of years?

While we certainly don't know the entire pre-history of the ME games, it doesn't change the fact that the Catalyst doesn't have free-will and control to do whatever it wants to do.

LOL, it doesn't have free will or control, but the Reapers are the Starchild's solution? try again.

[Raiil]

@Zayd depending on what the God Child is, it's possible that it could be true. Without knowing God Child's parameters or the extent of their reasoning/cognitive abilities, it may only be capable of sending out limited instructions because nothing has managed to interrupt its algorithms. Without knowing what God Child is (or why whoever created God Child made it), you cannot reasonably conclude on its limitations.

[davishepard]

Valentia X wrote...

@Zayd depending on what the God Child is, it's possible that it could be true. Without knowing God Child's parameters or the extent of their reasoning/cognitive abilities, it may only be capable of sending out limited instructions because nothing has managed to interrupt its algorithms. Without knowing what God Child is (or why whoever created God Child made it), you cannot reasonably conclude on its limitations.

Catalyst. He doesn't have any god feature.

[Raiil]

I wasn't aware that there were strict rules in popular naming conventions on the board?

[KingZayd]

Valentia X wrote...

@Zayd depending on what the God Child is, it's possible that it could be true. Without knowing God Child's parameters or the extent of their reasoning/cognitive abilities, it may only be capable of sending out limited instructions because nothing has managed to interrupt its algorithms. Without knowing what God Child is (or why whoever created God Child made it), you cannot reasonably conclude on its limitations.

I'm basing this on what it says. It says it controls the reapers. Not "i used to control the reapers". "Not someone presses my buttons to control the reapers". "I control the reapers."

What sort of basic controls might it have then? turn left? turn right? shoot?

[ev76]

Cavscout kettle meet pot! You get two gold stars for using your word of the week. way to deflect from the conversation. Both destroy endings reach the same goal.

[CavScout]

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...
My TV's remote control can control the TV. Yet, it doesn't do jack without out me telling it.

LOL, and who tells the Starchild what to do with the reapers? What has it been doing all these millions of years?

While we certainly don't know the entire pre-history of the ME games, it doesn't change the fact that the Catalyst doesn't have free-will and control to do whatever it wants to do.

LOL, it doesn't have free will or control, but the Reapers are the Starchild's solution? try again.

It doesn't. It clearly says Shep needs to make the next choice because it can't itself. Why pretend it had more control than it did?

[CavScout]

ev76 wrote...

Cavscout kettle meet pot! You get two gold stars for using your word of the week. way to deflect from the conversation. Both destroy endings reach the same goal.

To be funny, you have to be somewhat original.

You're doing neither.

[Isichar]

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...
My TV's remote control can control the TV. Yet, it doesn't do jack without out me telling it.

LOL, and who tells the Starchild what to do with the reapers? What has it been doing all these millions of years?

While we certainly don't know the entire pre-history of the ME games, it doesn't change the fact that the Catalyst doesn't have free-will and control to do whatever it wants to do.

LOL, it doesn't have free will or control, but the Reapers are the Starchild's solution? try again.

It doesn't. It clearly says Shep needs to make the next choice because it can't itself. Why pretend it had more control than it did?

Yeah the writers were more then a little vague about that entire section of the game. I wouldnt pretend you understand what the starchild is and can do when its clear that was not something that was directly even addressed.

[KingZayd]

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...
My TV's remote control can control the TV. Yet, it doesn't do jack without out me telling it.

LOL, and who tells the Starchild what to do with the reapers? What has it been doing all these millions of years?

While we certainly don't know the entire pre-history of the ME games, it doesn't change the fact that the Catalyst doesn't have free-will and control to do whatever it wants to do.

LOL, it doesn't have free will or control, but the Reapers are the Starchild's solution? try again.

It doesn't. It clearly says Shep needs to make the next choice because it can't itself. Why pretend it had more control than it did?

It also clearly says that the reapers are its solution. It also decides to bring Shepard upstairs, because supposedly he proves that his old solution can't work anymore. There is no indication that the Starchild has no free will.

[davishepard]

Valentia X wrote...

I wasn't aware that there were strict rules in popular naming conventions on the board?

It's OK, I forgive you. Don't let this happen again, though.

[KingZayd]

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

Cavscout kettle meet pot! You get two gold stars for using your word of the week. way to deflect from the conversation. Both destroy endings reach the same goal.

To be funny, you have to be somewhat original.

You're doing neither.

really? seems like a good spoof of your style of discussion.

[CavScout]

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

Cavscout kettle meet pot! You get two gold stars for using your word of the week. way to deflect from the conversation. Both destroy endings reach the same goal.

To be funny, you have to be somewhat original.

You're doing neither.

really? seems like a good spoof of your style of discussion.

Don't be mad just because you can't adequately debate Indoctrination Theory.

[ev76]

Cavscout Don't get mad. It's ok. We agree to disagree. Just remember not to start something you can't finish in a constructive adult manner.

[CavScout]

ev76 wrote...

Cavscout Don't get mad. It's ok. We agree to disagree. Just remember not to start something you can't finish in a constructive adult manner.

No we don't agree to disagree. You are patently wrong on the destroy endings.

PS: Try to be original. Just repeating what others say is so 4th grade.

Modifié par CavScout, 06 mai 2012 - 06:01 .

[Raiil]

@Zayd or deciding if it's the appropriate time to reap, what, if any species to ascend, etc. those can be programmed into a VI, or a reasonably intelligent AI could make decisions like that, even shackled.

I'm not stating this as fact. I'm just trying to point out that there are a number of reasonable explanations for the statement and reasoning of the AI, no matter how flawed the reasoning may be.

[matthewmi]

If IT was true the "real" ending would have been released already. IT is not true.

[KingZayd]

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...

ev76 wrote...

Cavscout kettle meet pot! You get two gold stars for using your word of the week. way to deflect from the conversation. Both destroy endings reach the same goal.

To be funny, you have to be somewhat original.

You're doing neither.

really? seems like a good spoof of your style of discussion.

Don't be mad just because you can't adequately debate Indoctrination Theory.

"Pot, I would like you to meet Kettle."

His post was amusing. I'm not having any problems debating Indoctrination Theory. No need to ascribe feelings to me that aren't there, just because you can't understand the debate.

[CavScout]

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...
Don't be mad just because you can't adequately debate Indoctrination Theory.

"Pot, I would like you to meet Kettle."

His post was amusing. I'm not having any problems debating Indoctrination Theory. No need to ascribe feelings to me that aren't there, just because you can't understand the debate.

Like I said to ev76, at least try to be original. Repeating your betters won't actually make you better.

[KingZayd]

Valentia X wrote...

@Zayd or deciding if it's the appropriate time to reap, what, if any species to ascend, etc. those can be programmed into a VI, or a reasonably intelligent AI could make decisions like that, even shackled.

I'm not stating this as fact. I'm just trying to point out that there are a number of reasonable explanations for the statement and reasoning of the AI, no matter how flawed the reasoning may be.

Deciding the appropriate time to reap was Sovereign's job wasn't it? As for what species to ascend, wasn't Harbinger deciding to do that himself? 


I'm trying to point out there aren't as many reasonable explanations as you think. Sure with enough handwaving you can get something that works, but you end up making the entire story convoluted and the reapers laughable.