CavScout wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
CavScout wrote...
Don't be mad just because you can't adequately debate Indoctrination Theory.
"Pot, I would like you to meet Kettle."
His post was amusing. I'm not having any problems debating Indoctrination Theory. No need to ascribe feelings to me that aren't there, just because you can't understand the debate.
Like I said to ev76, at least try to be original. Repeating your betters won't actually make you better.
1.Your not getting the fact that it's something that attacks the mind like alzheimer's. It degenrates and reforms brain matter....It's a flesh disorder. A mental Disorder is one that effect metal thinking alone...Indoctrination effects the pysical body and the mind.SubAstris wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1.No...It not... Read the codex...SubAstris wrote...
1) Difference is indoctrination is a personal, mental disease
2) Still amounts to a few hours. And if that is so, why aren't Joker and all the Crew also indoctrinated?
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination
Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.
Cleary, it's a disortion of the mind via physical and subliminal means. That is what IT is stating.
2. Not a few hours...Their is no way to caluclate the time not do we have the show of intecidy of waves use. Time and intecity is a factor that causes indoctrination and it was stated in ME1, shown even more in ME:evolution. Remeber, their is fast and slow indoctrination and it can be balenced.
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination
Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.
......Also, you have to note that the theory states that Shepard is in the process of indoctrination meaning the reapers are still trying to indoctrinated Shepard at the end of the game. The theory stated Harbinger is over Shepard uncounsuious body focusing indoctination wave in an attempt to finish the indoctrination.
1) What you linked to doesn't invalidate what I said
2) "intecidy"- WTF? Do you mean "intensity"? We know that the faster the indoctrination, the more likely. The fact that there is no way to calculate works against IT, since we don't even know if it would be possible without melting his brains
What?davishepard wrote...
Valentia X wrote...
@Zayd depending on what the God Child is, it's possible that it could be true. Without knowing God Child's parameters or the extent of their reasoning/cognitive abilities, it may only be capable of sending out limited instructions because nothing has managed to interrupt its algorithms. Without knowing what God Child is (or why whoever created God Child made it), you cannot reasonably conclude on its limitations.
Catalyst. He doesn't have any god feature.
dreman9999 wrote...
1.Your not getting the fact that it's something that attacks the mind like alzheimer's. It degenrates and reforms brain matter....It's a flesh disorder. A mental Disorder is one that effect metal thinking alone...Indoctrination effects the pysical body and the mind.SubAstris wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1.No...It not... Read the codex...SubAstris wrote...
1) Difference is indoctrination is a personal, mental disease
2) Still amounts to a few hours. And if that is so, why aren't Joker and all the Crew also indoctrinated?
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination
Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.
Cleary, it's a disortion of the mind via physical and subliminal means. That is what IT is stating.
2. Not a few hours...Their is no way to caluclate the time not do we have the show of intecidy of waves use. Time and intecity is a factor that causes indoctrination and it was stated in ME1, shown even more in ME:evolution. Remeber, their is fast and slow indoctrination and it can be balenced.
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination
Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.
......Also, you have to note that the theory states that Shepard is in the process of indoctrination meaning the reapers are still trying to indoctrinated Shepard at the end of the game. The theory stated Harbinger is over Shepard uncounsuious body focusing indoctination wave in an attempt to finish the indoctrination.
1) What you linked to doesn't invalidate what I said
2) "intecidy"- WTF? Do you mean "intensity"? We know that the faster the indoctrination, the more likely. The fact that there is no way to calculate works against IT, since we don't even know if it would be possible without melting his brains
2.We know it is possible with out melting his brains...Look at Benezia, Paul grayson, Dr, Kenson and Saren. I'm not saying one can make a thinking agent will full indoctrination wavesbeing used. But balance levels of exporser can. Also, note any thing that Shepard has is a foundation of more indoctrination in the furture, which is IT point....He is not full y indoctrinated yet...He just about to be at the end of the game.
Let take in to consideration the fact that the reaper even need to trick Shepard into indoctrination at Low ems. The chances are they have the time to just force indoctrination onto Shepard at low ems.ev76 wrote...
I disagree with the way you feel about the destroy endings. Both low ems and high ems reach the trilogy goal. Which is the same, destroying the reapers. You claim they have to be exactly the same. A dead reaper is a dead reaper.
CavScout wrote...
ev76 wrote...
Cavscout Don't get mad. It's ok. We agree to disagree. Just remember not to start something you can't finish in a constructive adult manner.
No we don't agree to disagree. You are patently wrong on the destroy endings.
PS: Try to be original. Just repeating what others say is so 4th grade.
dreman9999 wrote...
What?
He make a plan to control the course of galactic life and the corroputive salution he want is to control the course of galaxtic life..........That clearly a god feature.
ev76 wrote...
Cavscout a better of Kingzayd wow really cavscout? Why are you so delusional? Nobody is better than anybody in the Internet. Stay on topic cavscout.
ev76 wrote...
Cavscout Pot meet kettle!Haha! Both low ems and high ems get the same result in the destroy ending, you destroy the reapers (overall goal of the trilogy) both endings achieve that goal. Your preferences however are to have more unicorns and rainbows in your ending, see I was not lying.
hammerfan wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?
OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.
"electrical impulses" are sent from the brain.
Not necessarily.
Valentia X wrote...
Both ITers and Anti-ITers (well, some of each) have been pretty rude in the thread. Pointing fingers isn't going to help guys.
Modifié par KingZayd, 06 mai 2012 - 06:27 .
A very base less theory...This is nothing pointing to this. There is more point to the fact that the Star child is in charge...Even more things pointing to the fact that the Star child maybe lieing.davishepard wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
What?
He make a plan to control the course of galactic life and the corroputive salution he want is to control the course of galaxtic life..........That clearly a god feature.
I firmly believe that the Catalyst is an AI, and so he was created by someone at some point. And that "his plan", is actually "his program", and he is bound to follow it. His logic is pretty similar to Javik's logic - about synthetics -, so I guess it's plausible that he was created to preserve the organics by a race with thoughts
toward the machines similar to the Prothean.
ohupthis wrote...
hammerfan wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?
OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.
"electrical impulses" are sent from the brain.
Not necessarily.
WHAT? LOL
Shoot your self in your hind brain...Then tell me the signal is not coming from your brain. Also,the brain is flesh anyway.ohupthis wrote...
hammerfan wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?
OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.
"electrical impulses" are sent from the brain.
Not necessarily.
WHAT? LOL
dreman9999 wrote...
A very base less theory...This is nothing pointing to this. There is more point to the fact that the Star child is in charge...Even more things pointing to the fact that the Star child maybe lieing.davishepard wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
What?
He make a plan to control the course of galactic life and the corroputive salution he want is to control the course of galaxtic life..........That clearly a god feature.
I firmly believe that the Catalyst is an AI, and so he was created by someone at some point. And that "his plan", is actually "his program", and he is bound to follow it. His logic is pretty similar to Javik's logic - about synthetics -, so I guess it's plausible that he was created to preserve the organics by a race with thoughts
toward the machines similar to the Prothean.
Modifié par KingZayd, 06 mai 2012 - 06:32 .
......Wait...wait ..Wait....Saren clearly still has his mind....He not a puppet...He is a drone in away that still has will. If he was a puppet, he would never of killed himself.KingZayd wrote...
ohupthis wrote...
hammerfan wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?
OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.
"electrical impulses" are sent from the brain.
Not necessarily.
WHAT? LOL
Implants could do it too. Which is why Saren is turned into a puppet even after he puts a bullet in his brain.
CavScout wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
CavScout wrote...
IT folks are a funny bunch... they want to use a scene in the game to prove something so they use it but as soon as the scene doesn't fit their precious theory they just claim the scene wasn't real.
Makes you wonder why they bother to explain the scene if in the end, if they don't like what it proves, they'll just claim "that scene wasn't real".
Indoctrination Theory, where what's in the game really isn't in the game.
lol you've failed to understand.
The fact that TIM was using indoctrination tech in that scene was brought up to show, that even if that scene was real, Shepard was indoctrinated before he met the Starchild. In fact I like what it proves, but I still don't think it was real.
I also saw Anderson blow up the tube, and TIM grab those shocky things. DId that really happen?
No, I quite easily understand. IT folks want to have their cake and eat it too. They use scenes to prove something until it works against IT and then they'll just claim "it's not real!" Just as you did.
The scene doesn't prove indoctrinataion of Shep. That's why you are so eager to say it never really happened.
IT theory is this: If it supports IT it happened; if it hurts IT it was indoctrination and didn't happen.
Simple really.
dreman9999 wrote...
......Wait...wait ..Wait....Saren clearly still has his mind....He not a puppet...He is a drone in away that still has will. If he was a puppet, he would never of killed himself.KingZayd wrote...
ohupthis wrote...
hammerfan wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?
OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.
"electrical impulses" are sent from the brain.
Not necessarily.
WHAT? LOL
Implants could do it too. Which is why Saren is turned into a puppet even after he puts a bullet in his brain.
No, not on the fact the AI was created...The fact that he is doing all this asa continiuation of his based programing from the time he was made. We don't know his origin, we can't say anything on it.KingZayd wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
A very base less theory...This is nothing pointing to this. There is more point to the fact that the Star child is in charge...Even more things pointing to the fact that the Star child maybe lieing.davishepard wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
What?
He make a plan to control the course of galactic life and the corroputive salution he want is to control the course of galaxtic life..........That clearly a god feature.
I firmly believe that the Catalyst is an AI, and so he was created by someone at some point. And that "his plan", is actually "his program", and he is bound to follow it. His logic is pretty similar to Javik's logic - about synthetics -, so I guess it's plausible that he was created to preserve the organics by a race with thoughts
toward the machines similar to the Prothean.
Actually since the Starchild is an AI, it's definitely probably that someone created him at some point. Sure, the Starchild seems to be in charge NOW, but that wouldn't necessarily always be the case. Someone built the Citadel too. The reapers believe they did, but the Starchild who says the Citadel is a part of him, says that the reapers are his solution.
But that's the final level of indoctrination...Being turned into a husk.KingZayd wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
......Wait...wait ..Wait....Saren clearly still has his mind....He not a puppet...He is a drone in away that still has will. If he was a puppet, he would never of killed himself.KingZayd wrote...
ohupthis wrote...
hammerfan wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?
OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.
"electrical impulses" are sent from the brain.
Not necessarily.
WHAT? LOL
Implants could do it too. Which is why Saren is turned into a puppet even after he puts a bullet in his brain.
I'm referring the boss battle after he killed himself.
KingZayd wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
......Wait...wait ..Wait....Saren clearly still has his mind....He not a puppet...He is a drone in away that still has will. If he was a puppet, he would never of killed himself.KingZayd wrote...
ohupthis wrote...
hammerfan wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?
OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.
"electrical impulses" are sent from the brain.
Not necessarily.
WHAT? LOL
Implants could do it too. Which is why Saren is turned into a puppet even after he puts a bullet in his brain.
I'm referring the boss battle after he killed himself.
Thank you for adding on to my point.KingZayd wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1.Your not getting the fact that it's something that attacks the mind like alzheimer's. It degenrates and reforms brain matter....It's a flesh disorder. A mental Disorder is one that effect metal thinking alone...Indoctrination effects the pysical body and the mind.SubAstris wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
1.No...It not... Read the codex...SubAstris wrote...
1) Difference is indoctrination is a personal, mental disease
2) Still amounts to a few hours. And if that is so, why aren't Joker and all the Crew also indoctrinated?
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination
Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.
Cleary, it's a disortion of the mind via physical and subliminal means. That is what IT is stating.
2. Not a few hours...Their is no way to caluclate the time not do we have the show of intecidy of waves use. Time and intecity is a factor that causes indoctrination and it was stated in ME1, shown even more in ME:evolution. Remeber, their is fast and slow indoctrination and it can be balenced.
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination
Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.
......Also, you have to note that the theory states that Shepard is in the process of indoctrination meaning the reapers are still trying to indoctrinated Shepard at the end of the game. The theory stated Harbinger is over Shepard uncounsuious body focusing indoctination wave in an attempt to finish the indoctrination.
1) What you linked to doesn't invalidate what I said
2) "intecidy"- WTF? Do you mean "intensity"? We know that the faster the indoctrination, the more likely. The fact that there is no way to calculate works against IT, since we don't even know if it would be possible without melting his brains
2.We know it is possible with out melting his brains...Look at Benezia, Paul grayson, Dr, Kenson and Saren. I'm not saying one can make a thinking agent will full indoctrination wavesbeing used. But balance levels of exporser can. Also, note any thing that Shepard has is a foundation of more indoctrination in the furture, which is IT point....He is not full y indoctrinated yet...He just about to be at the end of the game.
Beneziah isolated the part of her mind that was pure. The rest was taken over. Saren's body was manipulated via his implants (which also helped the indoctrination). This is why even though he blew his brains out, Sovereign was able to assume direct control.
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