1357 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

CavScout wrote...
My TV's remote control can control the TV. Yet, it doesn't do jack without out me telling it.

LOL, and who tells the Starchild what to do with the reapers? What has it been doing all these millions of years?

While we certainly don't know the entire pre-history of the ME games, it doesn't change the fact that the Catalyst doesn't have free-will and control to do whatever it wants to do.

LOL, it doesn't have free will or control, but the Reapers are the Starchild's solution? try again.

It doesn't. It clearly says Shep needs to make the next choice because it can't itself. Why pretend it had more control than it did?

To trick Shepard. Remeber, race of machines with a history of great deception.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...



1) Difference is indoctrination is a personal, mental disease
2) Still amounts to a few hours. And if that is so, why aren't Joker and all the Crew also indoctrinated?

1.No...It not... Read the codex...
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination 


Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions. 

Cleary, it's a disortion of the mind via physical and subliminal means. That is what IT is stating.

2. Not a few hours...Their is no way to caluclate the time not do we have the show of intecidy of waves use. Time and intecity is a factor that causes indoctrination and it was stated in ME1, shown even more in ME:evolution. Remeber, their is fast and slow indoctrination and it can be balenced.
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination 

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years. 

......Also, you have to note that the theory states that Shepard is in the process of indoctrination meaning the reapers are still trying to indoctrinated Shepard at the end of the game. The theory stated Harbinger is over Shepard uncounsuious body  focusing indoctination wave in an attempt to finish the indoctrination.

1) What you linked to doesn't invalidate what I said
2) "intecidy"- WTF? Do you mean "intensity"? We know that the faster the indoctrination, the more likely. The fact that there is no way to calculate works against IT, since we don't even know if it would be possible without melting his brains

That's totally evident during the scene where Shep shoots Anderson, as TIM is showing THE POWER it HAS, instantly Shep shoots Anderson, and during the scene the INDOCTRINATION black-oily visuals appear, along with I might add, the Reaper-growl.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

What?
He make a plan to control the course of galactic life and the corroputive salution he want is to control the course of galaxtic  life..........That clearly a god feature.

I firmly believe that the Catalyst is an AI, and so he was created by someone at some point. And that "his plan", is actually "his program", and he is bound to follow it. His logic is pretty similar to Javik's logic - about synthetics -, so I guess it's plausible that he was created to preserve the organics by a race with thoughts 
toward the machines similar to the Prothean.

A very base less theory...This is nothing pointing to this. There is more point to the fact that the Star child is in charge...Even more things pointing to the fact that the Star child maybe lieing.

Actually since the Starchild is an AI, it's definitely probably that someone created him at some point. Sure, the Starchild seems to be in charge NOW, but that wouldn't necessarily always be the case. Someone built the Citadel too. The reapers believe they did, but the Starchild who says the Citadel is a part of him, says that the reapers are his solution.

No, not on the fact the AI was created...The fact that he is doing all this asa continiuation of his based programing from the time he was made. We don't know his origin, we can't say anything on it.

I'm pretty sure whoever it's creators are, it rebelled since they aren't around.. (unless of course it's the keepers which would be weird. Not that I believe it, but it's a possibility I probably shouldn't ignore) If it rebelled against it's masters, it's quite likely that what it's not following a directive, but choosing its own (again unless its reason for rebelling was a strict adherence to some robot laws that it actively can't disobey).

[ev76]

Ohuptis I hear you, but I don't agree it destroys all life in the galaxy. There are planets that are not near mass relays with colonies in the games. Like I told cavscout the endings are the same In that it gets rid of the reaper threat, both endings destroy the reapers. That was the overall goal of the trilogy. Low ems and high ems let's you achieve that goal. It just numbers after that as far as who lives and dies. Don't get me wrong I would love for more people to live, but both low ems and high ems let's you achieve the overall goal in the game. I'm saying it's the same ending, he wants exactly the same ending.

[TheProfessor234]

I wonder when people will realize that this far into it, no one is going to be changing their minds.

No idea if this thread is even about that but eh.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Implants could do it too. Which is why Saren is turned into a puppet even after he puts a bullet in his brain.

......Wait...wait ..Wait....Saren clearly still has his mind....He not a puppet...He is a drone in away that still has will. If he was a puppet, he would never of killed himself.

I'm referring the boss battle after he killed himself.

But that's the final level of indoctrination...Being turned into a husk.

my point is, the signals weren't from his mind in that case. his mind was dead, thanks to the bullet. I do accept though, that heavy indoctrination (and only heavy indoctrination, if there aren't implants) can allow the the reapers to control their body remotely.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

What?
He make a plan to control the course of galactic life and the corroputive salution he want is to control the course of galaxtic  life..........That clearly a god feature.

I firmly believe that the Catalyst is an AI, and so he was created by someone at some point. And that "his plan", is actually "his program", and he is bound to follow it. His logic is pretty similar to Javik's logic - about synthetics -, so I guess it's plausible that he was created to preserve the organics by a race with thoughts 
toward the machines similar to the Prothean.

A very base less theory...This is nothing pointing to this. There is more point to the fact that the Star child is in charge...Even more things pointing to the fact that the Star child maybe lieing.

Actually since the Starchild is an AI, it's definitely probably that someone created him at some point. Sure, the Starchild seems to be in charge NOW, but that wouldn't necessarily always be the case. Someone built the Citadel too. The reapers believe they did, but the Starchild who says the Citadel is a part of him, says that the reapers are his solution.

No, not on the fact the AI was created...The fact that he is doing all this asa continiuation of his based programing from the time he was made. We don't know his origin, we can't say anything on it.

I'm pretty sure whoever it's creators are, it rebelled since they aren't around.. (unless of course it's the keepers which would be weird. Not that I believe it, but it's a possibility I probably shouldn't ignore) If it rebelled against it's masters, it's quite likely that what it's not following a directive, but choosing its own (again unless its reason for rebelling was a strict adherence to some robot laws that it actively can't disobey).

But we don't know the full story.
As we seen with the geth ...It's not...

organics make suithetic...
Blank..
Sinthetic rebel ageint organic.
Something some thing...
Sinthetics win....
......
There are reasons to motivate the synthetics to rebel, events that added reason o he synthetics wining and organic losing and reason to why the sinthetics act the way they do now.....

Consider the fact that the synthetic victory was pyrrhic.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Implants could do it too. Which is why Saren is turned into a puppet even after he puts a bullet in his brain.

......Wait...wait ..Wait....Saren clearly still has his mind....He not a puppet...He is a drone in away that still has will. If he was a puppet, he would never of killed himself.

I'm referring the boss battle after he killed himself.

But that's the final level of indoctrination...Being turned into a husk.

my point is, the signals weren't from his mind in that case. his mind was dead, thanks to the bullet. I do accept though, that heavy indoctrination (and only heavy indoctrination, if there aren't implants) can allow the the reapers to control their body remotely.

Not heavy...Full indoctrination. If it were heavy  feilds of indoctrination wave that control  organic movement, the reaper would have won form the start of the war. Also, based on  ME:retribution, it's shown that reapers control peoplr with QEC connetions...Indoctrination just make the foundation of that control.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

KingZayd wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Implants could do it too. Which is why Saren is turned into a puppet even after he puts a bullet in his brain.

Ah yes by artificial means, I forgot to include the lore in this thought, sorry won't happen again, LOL.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

What?
He make a plan to control the course of galactic life and the corroputive salution he want is to control the course of galaxtic  life..........That clearly a god feature.

I firmly believe that the Catalyst is an AI, and so he was created by someone at some point. And that "his plan", is actually "his program", and he is bound to follow it. His logic is pretty similar to Javik's logic - about synthetics -, so I guess it's plausible that he was created to preserve the organics by a race with thoughts 
toward the machines similar to the Prothean.

A very base less theory...This is nothing pointing to this. There is more point to the fact that the Star child is in charge...Even more things pointing to the fact that the Star child maybe lieing.

Actually since the Starchild is an AI, it's definitely probably that someone created him at some point. Sure, the Starchild seems to be in charge NOW, but that wouldn't necessarily always be the case. Someone built the Citadel too. The reapers believe they did, but the Starchild who says the Citadel is a part of him, says that the reapers are his solution.

No, not on the fact the AI was created...The fact that he is doing all this asa continiuation of his based programing from the time he was made. We don't know his origin, we can't say anything on it.

I'm pretty sure whoever it's creators are, it rebelled since they aren't around.. (unless of course it's the keepers which would be weird. Not that I believe it, but it's a possibility I probably shouldn't ignore) If it rebelled against it's masters, it's quite likely that what it's not following a directive, but choosing its own (again unless its reason for rebelling was a strict adherence to some robot laws that it actively can't disobey).

But we don't know the full story.
As we seen with the geth ...It's not...

organics make suithetic...
Blank..
Sinthetic rebel ageint organic.
Something some thing...
Sinthetics win....
......
There are reasons to motivate the synthetics to rebel, events that added reason o he synthetics wining and organic losing and reason to why the sinthetics act the way they do now.....

Consider the fact that the synthetic victory was pyrrhic.

True. But then we never do know the full story.

Personally I think that, if this Starchild is real (which I don't believe), then it's assumption that the created will ALWAYS rebel against the creators to me sounds as if it's excusing itself, and rationalising that things couldn't have turned out differently.

Which synthetic victory was pyrrhic, and why?

[hammerfan]

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Electrical impulses can come from places other than the brain. Can't reall see where the humorous part of that is, but to each his own...

Modifié par hammerfan, 06 mai 2012 - 06:55 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

dreman9999 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Shoot your self in your hind brain...Then tell me the signal is not coming from your brain. Also,the brain is flesh anyway.

I'll ignore the quip, but essentially it's the Brain, that determines if it's pain or pleasure.

[ev76]

Even if the catalyst is an AI I would not trust it, sure it has the abilities to reason, and change its programming since edi and the geth show us they, can in game. Edi and the geth (legion) also show us that AI can also lie (edi) and hold out on information that we might not agree with (legion).

[KingZayd]

ohupthis wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Shoot your self in your hind brain...Then tell me the signal is not coming from your brain. Also,the brain is flesh anyway.

I'll ignore the quip, but essentially it's the Brain, that determines if it's pain or pleasure.

Actually, the nerves when stimulated send a signal which is interpreted as pain. Some.. interesting individuals can associate that pain with pleasure. But if you set your hand on fire, it will hurt.

The signals can be sent from other sources.

Modifié par KingZayd, 06 mai 2012 - 06:58 .

[hammerfan]

dreman9999 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Shoot your self in your hind brain...Then tell me the signal is not coming from your brain. Also,the brain is flesh anyway.

I didn't say that NO electrical impulses come from the brain. I said that NOT ALL electrical impulses come from the brain.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

What?
He make a plan to control the course of galactic life and the corroputive salution he want is to control the course of galaxtic  life..........That clearly a god feature.

I firmly believe that the Catalyst is an AI, and so he was created by someone at some point. And that "his plan", is actually "his program", and he is bound to follow it. His logic is pretty similar to Javik's logic - about synthetics -, so I guess it's plausible that he was created to preserve the organics by a race with thoughts 
toward the machines similar to the Prothean.

A very base less theory...This is nothing pointing to this. There is more point to the fact that the Star child is in charge...Even more things pointing to the fact that the Star child maybe lieing.

Actually since the Starchild is an AI, it's definitely probably that someone created him at some point. Sure, the Starchild seems to be in charge NOW, but that wouldn't necessarily always be the case. Someone built the Citadel too. The reapers believe they did, but the Starchild who says the Citadel is a part of him, says that the reapers are his solution.

No, not on the fact the AI was created...The fact that he is doing all this asa continiuation of his based programing from the time he was made. We don't know his origin, we can't say anything on it.

I'm pretty sure whoever it's creators are, it rebelled since they aren't around.. (unless of course it's the keepers which would be weird. Not that I believe it, but it's a possibility I probably shouldn't ignore) If it rebelled against it's masters, it's quite likely that what it's not following a directive, but choosing its own (again unless its reason for rebelling was a strict adherence to some robot laws that it actively can't disobey).

But we don't know the full story.
As we seen with the geth ...It's not...

organics make suithetic...
Blank..
Sinthetic rebel ageint organic.
Something some thing...
Sinthetics win....
......
There are reasons to motivate the synthetics to rebel, events that added reason o he synthetics wining and organic losing and reason to why the sinthetics act the way they do now.....

Consider the fact that the synthetic victory was pyrrhic.

True. But then we never do know the full story.

Personally I think that, if this Starchild is real (which I don't believe), then it's assumption that the created will ALWAYS rebel against the creators to me sounds as if it's excusing itself, and rationalising that things couldn't have turned out differently.

Which synthetic victory was pyrrhic, and why?

Remeber how the world was like in the cold war with USA vs Russia....Now imation that with the galexy with organics and synthetics....Imation the weapons they could of made, remeber, a mass relay  when blown up can destroy systems....Imagine one side agenst another lining up super weapons at one another and then one day war will break out....And only a few on ether side live through it...with systems left to harmful for any life to sustain in.....
That would be the pyrrhic victory I'm referring too. The synthetic would win because they have a better chance of servive an end results like that and organic would die off on their own with no final boot from synthetics.

[dreman9999]

hammerfan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Shoot your self in your hind brain...Then tell me the signal is not coming from your brain. Also,the brain is flesh anyway.

I didn't say that NO electrical impulses come from the brain. I said that NOT ALL electrical impulses come from the brain.

But the ones basedon body functions are. It ether goes out of the brain or to it.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

davishepard wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

What?
He make a plan to control the course of galactic life and the corroputive salution he want is to control the course of galaxtic  life..........That clearly a god feature.

I firmly believe that the Catalyst is an AI, and so he was created by someone at some point. And that "his plan", is actually "his program", and he is bound to follow it. His logic is pretty similar to Javik's logic - about synthetics -, so I guess it's plausible that he was created to preserve the organics by a race with thoughts 
toward the machines similar to the Prothean.

A very base less theory...This is nothing pointing to this. There is more point to the fact that the Star child is in charge...Even more things pointing to the fact that the Star child maybe lieing.

Actually since the Starchild is an AI, it's definitely probably that someone created him at some point. Sure, the Starchild seems to be in charge NOW, but that wouldn't necessarily always be the case. Someone built the Citadel too. The reapers believe they did, but the Starchild who says the Citadel is a part of him, says that the reapers are his solution.

No, not on the fact the AI was created...The fact that he is doing all this asa continiuation of his based programing from the time he was made. We don't know his origin, we can't say anything on it.

I'm pretty sure whoever it's creators are, it rebelled since they aren't around.. (unless of course it's the keepers which would be weird. Not that I believe it, but it's a possibility I probably shouldn't ignore) If it rebelled against it's masters, it's quite likely that what it's not following a directive, but choosing its own (again unless its reason for rebelling was a strict adherence to some robot laws that it actively can't disobey).

But we don't know the full story.
As we seen with the geth ...It's not...

organics make suithetic...
Blank..
Sinthetic rebel ageint organic.
Something some thing...
Sinthetics win....
......
There are reasons to motivate the synthetics to rebel, events that added reason o he synthetics wining and organic losing and reason to why the sinthetics act the way they do now.....

Consider the fact that the synthetic victory was pyrrhic.

True. But then we never do know the full story.

Personally I think that, if this Starchild is real (which I don't believe), then it's assumption that the created will ALWAYS rebel against the creators to me sounds as if it's excusing itself, and rationalising that things couldn't have turned out differently.

Which synthetic victory was pyrrhic, and why?

Remeber how the world was like in the cold war with USA vs Russia....Now imation that with the galexy with organics and synthetics....Imation the weapons they could of made, remeber, a mass relay  when blown up can destroy systems....Imagine one side agenst another lining up super weapons at one another and then one day war will break out....And only a few on ether side live through it...with systems left to harmful for any life to sustain in.....
That would be the pyrrhic victory I'm referring too. The synthetic would win because they have a better chance of servive an end results like that and organic would die off on their own with no final boot from synthetics.

I understand what a pyrrhic victory is. I'm just not sure why the synthetic victory would be pyrrhic? 

[hammerfan]

dreman9999 wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Shoot your self in your hind brain...Then tell me the signal is not coming from your brain. Also,the brain is flesh anyway.

I didn't say that NO electrical impulses come from the brain. I said that NOT ALL electrical impulses come from the brain.

But the ones basedon body functions are. It ether goes out of the brain or to it.

It does not have to be. Ask Galvani.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

KingZayd wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Shoot your self in your hind brain...Then tell me the signal is not coming from your brain. Also,the brain is flesh anyway.

I'll ignore the quip, but essentially it's the Brain, that determines if it's pain or pleasure.

Actually, the nerves when stimulated send a signal which is interpreted as pain. Some.. interesting individuals can associate that pain with pleasure. But if you set your hand on fire, it will hurt.

The signals can be sent from other sources.

Yes I'm not arguing, I'm simply stating the Brain makes the final decision, as to the intent of the signal.

not where it came from.

but on a deeper level, the Brainstem/Spinalcord, would be the main conduit for those signals, would it not?

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Shoot your self in your hind brain...Then tell me the signal is not coming from your brain. Also,the brain is flesh anyway.

I didn't say that NO electrical impulses come from the brain. I said that NOT ALL electrical impulses come from the brain.

But the ones basedon body functions are. It ether goes out of the brain or to it.

typically yes. But you can stimulate the same nerves with a non-brain source.

[hammerfan]

ohupthis wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Shoot your self in your hind brain...Then tell me the signal is not coming from your brain. Also,the brain is flesh anyway.

I'll ignore the quip, but essentially it's the Brain, that determines if it's pain or pleasure.

Actually, the nerves when stimulated send a signal which is interpreted as pain. Some.. interesting individuals can associate that pain with pleasure. But if you set your hand on fire, it will hurt.

The signals can be sent from other sources.

Yes I'm not arguing, I'm simply stating the Brain makes the final decision, as to the intent of the signal.

not where it came from.

but on a deeper level, the Brainstem/Spinalcord, would be the main conduit for those signals, would it not?

It does not have to be.

[KingZayd]

ohupthis wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

hammerfan wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Ok I'll ask you AGAIN, what controls the BODY?

Well, evidently not the mind or else Shepard would not be able to resist the command to shoot Anderson (or whatever happens in that scene).

OK, you want me to say "the mind" but that's silly. Firstly, it's a fictional universe. Real world neuroscience is kinda irrelevant.
If you want to go down that road anyway, the answer is "electrical impulses" - unless, of course, you'd prefer to argue that pacemakers are impossible.

"electrical impulses"  are sent from the brain.

Not necessarily.

WHAT? LOL

Shoot your self in your hind brain...Then tell me the signal is not coming from your brain. Also,the brain is flesh anyway.

I'll ignore the quip, but essentially it's the Brain, that determines if it's pain or pleasure.

Actually, the nerves when stimulated send a signal which is interpreted as pain. Some.. interesting individuals can associate that pain with pleasure. But if you set your hand on fire, it will hurt.

The signals can be sent from other sources.

Yes I'm not arguing, I'm simply stating the Brain makes the final decision, as to the intent of the signal.

not where it came from.

but on a deeper level, the Brainstem/Spinalcord, would be the main conduit for those signals, would it not?

If you apply the signal directly to the motor neurons, then you would get the corresponding movement without any interference from the brain. The signal wouldn't even go to the brain.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Much like TENS attachments, yes, which would be in essence implants.

[EpyonX3]

ohupthis wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...



1) Difference is indoctrination is a personal, mental disease
2) Still amounts to a few hours. And if that is so, why aren't Joker and all the Crew also indoctrinated?

1.No...It not... Read the codex...
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination 


Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions. 

Cleary, it's a disortion of the mind via physical and subliminal means. That is what IT is stating.

2. Not a few hours...Their is no way to caluclate the time not do we have the show of intecidy of waves use. Time and intecity is a factor that causes indoctrination and it was stated in ME1, shown even more in ME:evolution. Remeber, their is fast and slow indoctrination and it can be balenced.
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination 

Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years. 

......Also, you have to note that the theory states that Shepard is in the process of indoctrination meaning the reapers are still trying to indoctrinated Shepard at the end of the game. The theory stated Harbinger is over Shepard uncounsuious body  focusing indoctination wave in an attempt to finish the indoctrination.

1) What you linked to doesn't invalidate what I said
2) "intecidy"- WTF? Do you mean "intensity"? We know that the faster the indoctrination, the more likely. The fact that there is no way to calculate works against IT, since we don't even know if it would be possible without melting his brains

That's totally evident during the scene where Shep shoots Anderson, as TIM is showing THE POWER it HAS, instantly Shep shoots Anderson, and during the scene the INDOCTRINATION black-oily visuals appear, along with I might add, the Reaper-growl.

But Indoctrination is brain washing. The subjects do things willingly although they wouldn't have done so before. Shepard couldn't control his arm but he was still Shepard, mentally.

TIM's control is not Indoctrination.