savionen wrote...
There are some things people read way too much into, like someone was trying to use numerology on textures to try and prove IT, but, when I first played the game I felt indoctrination was a possibility in the story.
balance5050 wrote...
I like how you don't actually address the evidence.
DTKT wrote...
I love how you call an assortment of pictures that show really nothing conclusive "evidence".
Nice going.
balance5050 wrote...
EpyonX3 wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
EpyonX3 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
It's based on the same tech though isn't it? If so, why haven't the reapers thought of using it? It seems to work pretty well considering the amount of time spent developing it.
So are eezo drive cores. Are all aliance ships reapers?
Again look at the flaws of TIM's control. The victim is aware of the control, can talk, and can fight back with decision making and reasoing. This is not a good slave, agent or loyal subject. So who cares if it's instant.
TIM was indoctrinated when he was using his own version of indoctrination right?
But yet he had full control of his body and most of his thought processes, which made him a perfect target since cerberus had more resources than god.
See the difference?
Indeed, using TIM to control Shepard..... not a very succesful plan obviously. I just find it weird that since the Reapers were controlling TIM that they would rely on a human variant of indoc instead of their own, superior version.
EpyonX3 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
The game itself doesn't. But they're saying it does.
The game shows it. Shepard and Anderson can talk but can't move. They are trying to convince TIM to let them go. They have their minds they just can't move their bodies. This shouldn't need to be said.
LaZy i IS wrote...
savionen wrote...
There are some things people read way too much into, like someone was trying to use numerology on textures to try and prove IT, but, when I first played the game I felt indoctrination was a possibility in the story.
I thought/think indoctrination is possible, but the only decent evidence I've seen appears to be the pics that balance5050 just posted. I'll have to see them for myself in game to be sure, but I've seen no other good evidence.
LaZy i IS wrote...
I will... Once I see for myself.
Agugaboo wrote...
I see what you're saying, but for me it's not so clear cut;LaZy i IS wrote...
Because there is no reason for it to support IT unless you believe IT. You could just as easily assume that they're added at that moment because
1) it's inconvenient for players to have a tree in the way whilst running down
2)people aren't going to pay much attention to detail whilst running downhill, being shot by a reaper anyway
Why would I assume Indoc. here? the presence of trees does not imply indoc. unless you believe IT.
1) Then why add them? Why would they go back and add them after the fact? Why use the same foliage from the dream sequence.
2) Yet clearly they did. And what's more we were supposed to "speculate" about the whole ending.
Because as of yet all anyone has is evidence without any clear cut proof and only indirect hints at motive.
balance5050 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
And this only makes sense if TIM has been able to improve reaper tech, which is very impressive indeed. There is another answer: That scene isn't real. Shepard's still unconscious in London, where we see him/her after the high EMS destruction ending.
I'm wondering why TIM wants to control organics in the first place. I thought he wanted to control the reapers and their forces.
CavScout wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
And this only makes sense if TIM has been able to improve reaper tech, which is very impressive indeed. There is another answer: That scene isn't real. Shepard's still unconscious in London, where we see him/her after the high EMS destruction ending.
I'm wondering why TIM wants to control organics in the first place. I thought he wanted to control the reapers and their forces.
It's a good thing we never see TIM's forces made up of human forces.... oh wait.. what?
balance5050 wrote...
EpyonX3 wrote...
No my original point was that TIM isn't using reaper indoctrination to control shpeard and anderson. He reverse engineered the process and made it into his own.
Why make it so he can control organics and not reapers/husks? Which was his plan? It isn't reverse engineering if it works better than what the reapers alreeady have. It's improving indoctrination.
EpyonX3 wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
EpyonX3 wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
EpyonX3 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
It's based on the same tech though isn't it? If so, why haven't the reapers thought of using it? It seems to work pretty well considering the amount of time spent developing it.
So are eezo drive cores. Are all aliance ships reapers?
Again look at the flaws of TIM's control. The victim is aware of the control, can talk, and can fight back with decision making and reasoing. This is not a good slave, agent or loyal subject. So who cares if it's instant.
TIM was indoctrinated when he was using his own version of indoctrination right?
But yet he had full control of his body and most of his thought processes, which made him a perfect target since cerberus had more resources than god.
See the difference?
Indeed, using TIM to control Shepard..... not a very succesful plan obviously. I just find it weird that since the Reapers were controlling TIM that they would rely on a human variant of indoc instead of their own, superior version.
TIM was fighting it off though. He wasn't under complete control, nor was he brainwashed the same as Saren was. However, he couldn't keep up the fight for that much longer.
Also, you're assuming that the reapers sent TIM to stop Shepard. That wasn't the case.
EpyonX3 wrote...
CavScout wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
And this only makes sense if TIM has been able to improve reaper tech, which is very impressive indeed. There is another answer: That scene isn't real. Shepard's still unconscious in London, where we see him/her after the high EMS destruction ending.
I'm wondering why TIM wants to control organics in the first place. I thought he wanted to control the reapers and their forces.
It's a good thing we never see TIM's forces made up of human forces.... oh wait.. what?
I wouldn't have used sarcasm but I agree. TIM having those powers eliminates the need to jam their faces with implants that only simulate reaper control.
balance5050 wrote...
LaZy i IS wrote...
lol. I never stated that the trees move or w/e. Go back and read what I said.
My point was, they aren't the same trees from Sheperd's dreams, they are the same as the ones in the background, even before the beam hits you. They were likely added as details after the beam hits. Not much need for random trees in the way while sprinting towards the citadel beam, being fired at by a reaper.
Again, I'm not totally refuting IT, just saying that the evidence is weak.
Why add trees behind you where few people actually look? the trees are hardly important to the tone, particularly since if you don't turn round you don't see them. If they weren't there noone would miss them. No, someone put these in deliberately and deliberately triggered them to appear after Harbinger blasts you.
Modifié par balance5050, 06 mai 2012 - 11:36 .
CavScout wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
And this only makes sense if TIM has been able to improve reaper tech, which is very impressive indeed. There is another answer: That scene isn't real. Shepard's still unconscious in London, where we see him/her after the high EMS destruction ending.
I'm wondering why TIM wants to control organics in the first place. I thought he wanted to control the reapers and their forces.
It's a good thing we never see TIM's forces made up of human forces.... oh wait.. what?
balance5050 wrote...
LaZy i IS wrote...
RIght... "There is nothing to imply that they are there deliberately to show indoctrination, unless you assume IT true first. "
Better?
And the kid at the railing... you find him in a vent a few metres away about a minute after that moment, why is that strange? If he was somewhere he really doesn't belong, then it might be more convinving.
The trees either imply nothing or indoctrination then.
balance5050 wrote...
It's not like every cycle has an indoctrinated splinter group that thinks they can "control the reapers". OH yeah, every cycle does.
CavScout wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
LaZy i IS wrote...
RIght... "There is nothing to imply that they are there deliberately to show indoctrination, unless you assume IT true first. "
Better?
And the kid at the railing... you find him in a vent a few metres away about a minute after that moment, why is that strange? If he was somewhere he really doesn't belong, then it might be more convinving.
The trees either imply nothing or indoctrination then.
No, this is a false choice. You are using an either-or fallacy.
jpraelster93 wrote...
I mean there are too many things like that kid running into the building and then THE BUILDING BLOWS UP how the hell did he survive
jijeebo wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
It's not like every cycle has an indoctrinated splinter group that thinks they can "control the reapers". OH yeah, every cycle does.
When was it established that people from every cycle tried to control the reapers and became indoctrinated as a result?
balance5050 wrote...
CavScout wrote...
balance5050 wrote...
LaZy i IS wrote...
RIght... "There is nothing to imply that they are there deliberately to show indoctrination, unless you assume IT true first. "
Better?
And the kid at the railing... you find him in a vent a few metres away about a minute after that moment, why is that strange? If he was somewhere he really doesn't belong, then it might be more convinving.
The trees either imply nothing or indoctrination then.
No, this is a false choice. You are using an either-or fallacy.
What else would they imply? I'm just leaving the only logical possibilities here.
balance5050 wrote...
hammerfan wrote...
Occam's razor says to go with the hypothesis that makes the fewest assumptions, therefore offering the simplest explanation. The "Bad Writing" hypothesis makes only one assumption - the ending was badly written. That's as simple an explanation as you can get.
The problem with Occam's razor is that it doesn't account for evidence and pattern. It is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "Bioware is lazy!"
The bushes and trees being added into a spot that not many see is contrary to this.
Retour en haut