1357 réponses à ce sujet

[KevShep]

DTKT wrote...

There is no evidence. The fact that you hear both male and female Shepard is nothing more than a nice little "touch" from Bioware. It's the last conversation of the series and the last time that you'll play as Shepard.

It makes some sense to use both voices to create the Catalyst.

When you want to believe in something, you will create your own evidence and convince yourself that it's true.

How...do...you...know...that???  Not to be rude but that last sentence makes you a hypocrite as there is clear evidence that something is wrong or not right with the catalyst and your just making "creating" a bad excuse.

[CavScout]

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...

There is no evidence. The fact that you hear both male and female Shepard is nothing more than a nice little "touch" from Bioware. It's the last conversation of the series and the last time that you'll play as Shepard.

It makes some sense to use both voices to create the Catalyst.

When you want to believe in something, you will create your own evidence and convince yourself that it's true.

How...do...you...know...that???  Not to be rude but that last sentence makes you a hypocrite as there is clear evidence that something is wrong or not right with the catalyst and your just making "creating" a bad excuse.

What "evidence" do you have that the Catalyst is "wrong or not right"? How do you know that  the use of the mixed sound is anything other than mixing sounds for a new one to use in the game?

[KevShep]

CavScout wrote...

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...

But by your logic, it was all part of an eloborate plan in order to mislead the players. Then, they didn't say anything during the last 2 months because? Why wans't this mentionned in the "Final Hours" app? Why wasn't this mentionned during the last 2 press releases from Bioware about the endings? Why wasn't this mentionned at PAX? Why wasn't this part of the last 2 script leaks?

But it doesn't matter to you! You saw some trees! TREES I TELL YOU!

So. instead of accepting the simple answer of, Bioware messed up and rushed the endings, you wrote fan-fiction.

That's it. Nothing more than that. You are free to believe it, but don't assume that you have "evidence" of anything.

(that voice thing is a nice little nod at the end of the game. It's Shepard coming full circle. It's cute. That's it.

It is fact that you can hear shepard in the catalyst voice. Why is this so hard for you to understand people? Second you getting into another topic completely...lets stay focused on the evidence and not the assumptions from them.

And, so what if Shep's voice is mixed in with others to create the Catalyst's voice? It doesn't provide evidence for anything other than they mixed in sound to make a new one for the game.

Why is this so important to you and why is it somehow the linchpin to Indoctrination Theory?

A...duh! It is telling us that there is more of shepard in the catalyst then it seems. The only possible way this could then play out is if he was indoctrinated since the boy is the same from his/her dreams and that means there is a mental connection there.

[liggy002]

Master Yoda says "Do not assume anything Obi Wan."

Modifié par liggy002, 07 mai 2012 - 02:54 .

[KevShep]

CavScout wrote...

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...

There is no evidence. The fact that you hear both male and female Shepard is nothing more than a nice little "touch" from Bioware. It's the last conversation of the series and the last time that you'll play as Shepard.

It makes some sense to use both voices to create the Catalyst.

When you want to believe in something, you will create your own evidence and convince yourself that it's true.

How...do...you...know...that???  Not to be rude but that last sentence makes you a hypocrite as there is clear evidence that something is wrong or not right with the catalyst and your just making "creating" a bad excuse.

What "evidence" do you have that the Catalyst is "wrong or not right"? How do you know that  the use of the mixed sound is anything other than mixing sounds for a new one to use in the game?

yeah it would be mixed sound if it was just random sounds but the fact that its Shepards voice and also the other gender shepards voice is just odvious that somthing is up. 

Modifié par KevShep, 07 mai 2012 - 02:56 .

[CavScout]

KevShep wrote...

CavScout wrote...

And, so what if Shep's voice is mixed in with others to create the Catalyst's voice? It doesn't provide evidence for anything other than they mixed in sound to make a new one for the game.

Why is this so important to you and why is it somehow the linchpin to Indoctrination Theory?

A...duh! It is telling us that there is more of shepard in the catalyst then it seems. The only possible way this could then play out is if he was indoctrinated since the boy is the same from his/her dreams and that means there is a mental connection there.

It's telling us no such thing. The only thing it tells us is that they create a new voice to use in game.

That you then turn to a false dilemma is interesting and pretty common among those who preach the Indoctrination Theory.

[liggy002]

CavScout wrote...

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...

There is no evidence. The fact that you hear both male and female Shepard is nothing more than a nice little "touch" from Bioware. It's the last conversation of the series and the last time that you'll play as Shepard.

It makes some sense to use both voices to create the Catalyst.

When you want to believe in something, you will create your own evidence and convince yourself that it's true.

How...do...you...know...that???  Not to be rude but that last sentence makes you a hypocrite as there is clear evidence that something is wrong or not right with the catalyst and your just making "creating" a bad excuse.

What "evidence" do you have that the Catalyst is "wrong or not right"? How do you know that  the use of the mixed sound is anything other than mixing sounds for a new one to use in the game?

Why would somebody think this is a dream?  I don't know.... because the boy is dead and he was in all of the dreams!  And then the so called "Catalyst" pops up and takes the form of the boy. 

[DTKT]

KevShep wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...

But by your logic, it was all part of an eloborate plan in order to mislead the players. Then, they didn't say anything during the last 2 months because? Why wans't this mentionned in the "Final Hours" app? Why wasn't this mentionned during the last 2 press releases from Bioware about the endings? Why wasn't this mentionned at PAX? Why wasn't this part of the last 2 script leaks?

But it doesn't matter to you! You saw some trees! TREES I TELL YOU!

So. instead of accepting the simple answer of, Bioware messed up and rushed the endings, you wrote fan-fiction.

That's it. Nothing more than that. You are free to believe it, but don't assume that you have "evidence" of anything.

(that voice thing is a nice little nod at the end of the game. It's Shepard coming full circle. It's cute. That's it.

It is fact that you can hear shepard in the catalyst voice. Why is this so hard for you to understand people? Second you getting into another topic completely...lets stay focused on the evidence and not the assumptions from them.

And, so what if Shep's voice is mixed in with others to create the Catalyst's voice? It doesn't provide evidence for anything other than they mixed in sound to make a new one for the game.

Why is this so important to you and why is it somehow the linchpin to Indoctrination Theory?

A...duh! It is telling us that there is more of shepard in the catalyst then it seems. The only possible way this could then play out is if he was indoctrinated since the boy is the same from his/her dreams and that means there is a mental connection there.

That's not the only possible explanation! GAH!

The other explanation is that it's a nice voice. And it was probably very easy to get a hold off Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale. That's why they use them.

The boy being dead and showing up in the dreams could simply be a design choice to make Shepard more "emotionnal" over what happened on Earth. The boy represents every human he couldn't save and how powerless he feels.

I can't wait for the EE.

Modifié par DTKT, 07 mai 2012 - 02:59 .

[CavScout]

KevShep wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...

There is no evidence. The fact that you hear both male and female Shepard is nothing more than a nice little "touch" from Bioware. It's the last conversation of the series and the last time that you'll play as Shepard.

It makes some sense to use both voices to create the Catalyst.

When you want to believe in something, you will create your own evidence and convince yourself that it's true.

How...do...you...know...that???  Not to be rude but that last sentence makes you a hypocrite as there is clear evidence that something is wrong or not right with the catalyst and your just making "creating" a bad excuse.

What "evidence" do you have that the Catalyst is "wrong or not right"? How do you know that  the use of the mixed sound is anything other than mixing sounds for a new one to use in the game?

yeah it would be mixed sound if it was just random sounds but the fact that its Shepards voice and also the other gender shepards voice is just advious that somthing is up. 

You are creating significance where none is evident. You are asked to provide evidence of importance and your answer is "but it is!" That's not evidence, that's faith.

[KevShep]

CavScout wrote...

KevShep wrote...

CavScout wrote...

And, so what if Shep's voice is mixed in with others to create the Catalyst's voice? It doesn't provide evidence for anything other than they mixed in sound to make a new one for the game.

Why is this so important to you and why is it somehow the linchpin to Indoctrination Theory?

A...duh! It is telling us that there is more of shepard in the catalyst then it seems. The only possible way this could then play out is if he was indoctrinated since the boy is the same from his/her dreams and that means there is a mental connection there.

It's telling us no such thing. The only thing it tells us is that they create a new voice to use in game.

That you then turn to a false dilemma is interesting and pretty common among those who preach the Indoctrination Theory.

Again you have failed to answer the question of how you know that its just random sounds by shepards voice!

 Have you even heard the catalyst with headphones? The devs spent time and money on this when they could have just put nothing but instead chose to use both shepards.

[CavScout]

liggy002 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
What "evidence" do you have that the Catalyst is "wrong or not right"? How do you know that  the use of the mixed sound is anything other than mixing sounds for a new one to use in the game?

Why would somebody think this is a dream?  I don't know.... because the boy is dead and he was in all of the dreams!  And then the so called "Catalyst" pops up and takes the form of the boy. 

Why would you assume it is a dream, when nothing denotes it as such (as the actual dreams in game are shown to be)?

[CavScout]

KevShep wrote...

CavScout wrote...
It's telling us no such thing. The only thing it tells us is that they create a new voice to use in game.

That you then turn to a false dilemma is interesting and pretty common among those who preach the Indoctrination Theory.

Again you have failed to answer the question of how you know that its just random sounds by shepards voice!

 Have you even heard the catalyst with headphones? The devs spent time and money on this when they could have just put nothing but instead chose to use both shepards.

What are you talking about? You keep offering up a false dilemma, why? You do understand it is a fallacy for a reason, yes? Here's a hint, just because I can't tell you why something was done is not evidence then that it was done to support Indoctrination Theory.

Modifié par CavScout, 07 mai 2012 - 03:02 .

[DTKT]

"You can't prove that it's this way because it's a nice audio mix!"

Which would simply lead me to retort:

"You can't prove that it's part of an elaborate conspiracy by Bioware. One that was never hinted at during the development, after the release or even when they talked about the EE."

[KevShep]

DTKT wrote...

KevShep wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...

But by your logic, it was all part of an eloborate plan in order to mislead the players. Then, they didn't say anything during the last 2 months because? Why wans't this mentionned in the "Final Hours" app? Why wasn't this mentionned during the last 2 press releases from Bioware about the endings? Why wasn't this mentionned at PAX? Why wasn't this part of the last 2 script leaks?

But it doesn't matter to you! You saw some trees! TREES I TELL YOU!

So. instead of accepting the simple answer of, Bioware messed up and rushed the endings, you wrote fan-fiction.

That's it. Nothing more than that. You are free to believe it, but don't assume that you have "evidence" of anything.

(that voice thing is a nice little nod at the end of the game. It's Shepard coming full circle. It's cute. That's it.

It is fact that you can hear shepard in the catalyst voice. Why is this so hard for you to understand people? Second you getting into another topic completely...lets stay focused on the evidence and not the assumptions from them.

And, so what if Shep's voice is mixed in with others to create the Catalyst's voice? It doesn't provide evidence for anything other than they mixed in sound to make a new one for the game.

Why is this so important to you and why is it somehow the linchpin to Indoctrination Theory?

A...duh! It is telling us that there is more of shepard in the catalyst then it seems. The only possible way this could then play out is if he was indoctrinated since the boy is the same from his/her dreams and that means there is a mental connection there.

That's not the only possible explanation! GAH!

The other explanation is that it's a nice voice. And it was probably very easy to get a hold off Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale. That's why they use them.

The boy being dead and showing up in the dreams could simply be a design choice to make Shepard more "emotionnal" over what happened on Earth. The boy represents every human he couldn't save and how powerless he feels.

I can't wait for the EE.

 Do you hear yourself?...Its because it was "a nice voice'. Dont discreadit mine if thats your answer. I guess they sould have put shepards voice behind Sovereigns just for no reason right?...NO there is a point to shepard voice as the catalysts! 

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

KevShep wrote...

CavScout wrote...

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...

There is no evidence. The fact that you hear both male and female Shepard is nothing more than a nice little "touch" from Bioware. It's the last conversation of the series and the last time that you'll play as Shepard.

It makes some sense to use both voices to create the Catalyst.

When you want to believe in something, you will create your own evidence and convince yourself that it's true.

How...do...you...know...that???  Not to be rude but that last sentence makes you a hypocrite as there is clear evidence that something is wrong or not right with the catalyst and your just making "creating" a bad excuse.

What "evidence" do you have that the Catalyst is "wrong or not right"? How do you know that  the use of the mixed sound is anything other than mixing sounds for a new one to use in the game?

yeah it would be mixed sound if it was just random sounds but the fact that its Shepards voice and also the other gender shepards voice is just advious that somthing is up. 

You are creating significance where none is evident. You are asked to provide evidence of importance and your answer is "but it is!" That's not evidence, that's faith.

But you see, that's the thing, there are dozens of odd anomlies that stand out to long time fans of the series. And if we just assume that there is no signicance, then it has all truly led no where, led to nothing.

So following that line of thought, dozens of things mean either nothing or indoctrination.

I'd  much faster beleive that all the anomlies mean that the reapers pulled a fast one then "nothing".

And if these things don't mean "nothing" or IT, then what do you think is the meaning of that puzzle of an ending?

Modifié par balance5050, 07 mai 2012 - 03:09 .

[CavScout]

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...
That's not the only possible explanation! GAH!

The other explanation is that it's a nice voice. And it was probably very easy to get a hold off Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale. That's why they use them.

The boy being dead and showing up in the dreams could simply be a design choice to make Shepard more "emotionnal" over what happened on Earth. The boy represents every human he couldn't save and how powerless he feels.

I can't wait for the EE.

 Do you hear yourself?...Its because it was "a nice voice'. Dont discreadit mine if thats your answer. I guess they sould have put shepards voice behind Sovereigns just for no reason right?...NO there is a point to shepard voice as the catalysts! 

Who wouldn't believe
 
A) the Devs used a voice because they liked it
 
over

the conspiracy theory that the voices were mixed to lay a deliberate trail of clues to hint at a game outcome that the company will not admit to.

B is so clearly the more believable answer.

[Raiil]

KevShep wrote...



 Have you even heard the catalyst with headphones? The devs spent time and money on this when they could have just put nothing but instead chose to use both shepards.

And therein lies a problem- trying to use these as evidence for clues when the vast majority of people can't hear it unaided smacks of 'they made it obvious if you're paying attention! being rendered moot.' I'm willing to bet that most people don't play this game on a spectacular gaming rig or with earphones- anyone playing on the 360 or PS3 most likely isn't, and not every PC gamer will be as well.

It would be difficult to rationalise putting in clues that can only be observed by PC players with hi-def computers and decent surround sound. If the average layman can't pick it up, it's either a) a conspiracy!11! which I don;t think anyone is arguing BioWare tried, or it's a most a coincidence.

Modifié par Valentia X, 07 mai 2012 - 03:12 .

[CavScout]

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
You are creating significance where none is evident. You are asked to provide evidence of importance and your answer is "but it is!" That's not evidence, that's faith.

But you see, that's the things, there are dozens of odd anomlies that stand out to long time fans of the series. And if we just assume that there is no signicance, then it has all truly led no where, led to nothing.

So following that line of thought, dozens of things mean either nothing or indoctrination.

I'd  much faster beleive that all the anomlies mean that the reapers pulled a fast one then "nothing".

And if these things don't mean "nothing" or IT, then what do you think is the meaning of that puzzle of an ending?

Creating connections between unrelated data to paint a picture of something is unhealthy. It's also not constructive to debate.

Also, the "mean either nothing or indoctrination" mantra is pretty pathetic. The false dilemma tripe has to stop.

[KevShep]

CavScout wrote...

KevShep wrote...

DTKT wrote...
That's not the only possible explanation! GAH!

The other explanation is that it's a nice voice. And it was probably very easy to get a hold off Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale. That's why they use them.

The boy being dead and showing up in the dreams could simply be a design choice to make Shepard more "emotionnal" over what happened on Earth. The boy represents every human he couldn't save and how powerless he feels.

I can't wait for the EE.

 Do you hear yourself?...Its because it was "a nice voice'. Dont discreadit mine if thats your answer. I guess they sould have put shepards voice behind Sovereigns just for no reason right?...NO there is a point to shepard voice as the catalysts! 

Who wouldn't believe
 
A) the Devs used a voice because they liked it
 
over

the conspiracy theory that the voices were mixed to lay a deliberate trail of clues to hint at a game outcome that the company will not admit to.

B is so clearly the more believable answer.

 You are missing SSSOOOO much more info. The answer is when you look at everything.

Do you know how indoctrination works? if you want to move on to other evidence then I will be happy to as this is going nowhere if your just going to throw me a default answer with no backing to it.

[KevShep]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
You are creating significance where none is evident. You are asked to provide evidence of importance and your answer is "but it is!" That's not evidence, that's faith.

But you see, that's the things, there are dozens of odd anomlies that stand out to long time fans of the series. And if we just assume that there is no signicance, then it has all truly led no where, led to nothing.

So following that line of thought, dozens of things mean either nothing or indoctrination.

I'd  much faster beleive that all the anomlies mean that the reapers pulled a fast one then "nothing".

And if these things don't mean "nothing" or IT, then what do you think is the meaning of that puzzle of an ending?

Creating connections between unrelated data to paint a picture of something is unhealthy. It's also not constructive to debate.

Also, the "mean either nothing or indoctrination" mantra is pretty pathetic. The false dilemma tripe has to stop.

 Your assuming again that the data is unrelated.  Again I ask...Do you know what indoctrination is and how it works?

[DTKT]

There is one key point I need to address to make things a bit clearer. We basically have two different perspectives on Bioware and how they are currently functioning under EA.

You assume that Bioware is at it's peak in writing, that it has all the money and time it wants. They cannot make mistakes, they cannot be in a situation where the best they can do is to produce rushed content. They then created a vast conspiracy where clues were hidden throughout the game. excluding both script leaks for some reason. They expected the fanbase to find these clues and speculate.

I don't.

I assume that Bioware ran out of time/money and had to rush to meet the release date. Endings being the last thing a studio works on, suffered in quality. That's why we get 3 similar endings with a color swap in order to make them more "unique". I find a much more "grounded" reason for everything that wen't wrong. Bioware failed. There is nothing unusual about that. It happens to the best of studios.

That's the key difference. You ignore the realities of developing a game. You ignore the dealines, the crunch and we know for a fact that they were pressed for time till the very last second. The level of fan-fiction you are creating would have required months of planning. It would have also been the single most risky PR and business decision I would ever seen this generation. Over the past 2 months, Bioware has taken a lot of flak for how bad the endings are. They could have come out the day of release, saying "Do not fret! The true endings are coming in 3 months! We just wanted them to be perfect". That would have silenced most of the complaints. Instead, they waited and waited till they announced the EE which would "clarify" the ending. Nothing more. That's where all that debate about "Artistic Integrity" started.

I don't believe in the IT because it makes no sense from a business and development point of view. It simply doesn't fit with what we know of the last months of dev time and the conditions in which Bioware had to work. It doesn't fit with the script leaks, it doesn't fit with the Final Hours app.

I honestly wish I could believe. It sounds nice! It's bold from a gameplay perspective, misleading the players is never something that's easy to do.  It "repairs" the endings by making them dreams and that's something I can get behind.

I just don't think I can ignore everything we know outside of the game. I simply can't.

Modifié par DTKT, 07 mai 2012 - 03:21 .

[CavScout]

KevShep wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Who wouldn't believe
 
A) the Devs used a voice because they liked it
 
over

the conspiracy theory that the voices were mixed to lay a deliberate trail of clues to hint at a game outcome that the company will not admit to.

B is so clearly the more believable answer.

 You are missing SSSOOOO much more info. The answer is when you look at everything.

Do you know how indoctrination works? if you want to move on to other evidence then I will be happy to as this is going nowhere if your just going to throw me a default answer with no backing to it.

Keep preaching brother! Perhaps you'll convert a few more of the gullible to your side.

PS: How can we move on when you can't even get started with this "evidence"? You need to support IT not demand it be debunked.

[KevShep]

DTKT wrote...

There is one key point I need to address to make things a bit clearer. We basically have two different perspectives on Bioware and how they are currently functioning under EA.

You assume that Bioware is at it's peak in writing, that it has all the money and time it wants. They cannot make mistakes, they cannot be in a situation where the best they can do is to produce rushed content. They then created a vast conspiracy where clues were hidden throughout the game. excluding both script leaks for some reason. They expected the fanbase to find these clues and speculate.

I don't.

I assume that Bioware ran out of time/money and had to rush to meet the release date. Endings being the last thing a studio works on, suffered in quality. That's why we get 3 similar endings with a color swap in order to make them more "unique". I find a much more "grounded" reason for everything that wen't wrong. Bioware failed. There is nothing unusual about that. It happens to the best of studios.

That's the fundamental different. You ignore the realities of developing a game. You ignore the dealines, the crunch and we know for a fact that they were pressed for time till the very last second.

I don't believe in the IT because it makes no sense from a business and development point of view. It simply doesn't fit with what we know of the last months of dev time and the conditions in which Bioware had to work.

No, do not put words in my mouth...Your post is not what I believe in or how I feel.

[CavScout]

KevShep wrote...

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
You are creating significance where none is evident. You are asked to provide evidence of importance and your answer is "but it is!" That's not evidence, that's faith.

But you see, that's the things, there are dozens of odd anomlies that stand out to long time fans of the series. And if we just assume that there is no signicance, then it has all truly led no where, led to nothing.

So following that line of thought, dozens of things mean either nothing or indoctrination.

I'd  much faster beleive that all the anomlies mean that the reapers pulled a fast one then "nothing".

And if these things don't mean "nothing" or IT, then what do you think is the meaning of that puzzle of an ending?

Creating connections between unrelated data to paint a picture of something is unhealthy. It's also not constructive to debate.

Also, the "mean either nothing or indoctrination" mantra is pretty pathetic. The false dilemma tripe has to stop.

 Your assuming again that the data is unrelated.  Again I ask...Do you know what indoctrination is and how it works?

Show how the data is related without first assuming Indoctrination Theory. You can't. Out here among the non-converted we call that circular reasoning.

[balance5050]

CavScout wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

CavScout wrote...
You are creating significance where none is evident. You are asked to provide evidence of importance and your answer is "but it is!" That's not evidence, that's faith.

But you see, that's the things, there are dozens of odd anomlies that stand out to long time fans of the series. And if we just assume that there is no signicance, then it has all truly led no where, led to nothing.

So following that line of thought, dozens of things mean either nothing or indoctrination.

I'd  much faster beleive that all the anomlies mean that the reapers pulled a fast one then "nothing".

And if these things don't mean "nothing" or IT, then what do you think is the meaning of that puzzle of an ending?

Creating connections between unrelated data to paint a picture of something is unhealthy. It's also not constructive to debate.

Also, the "mean either nothing or indoctrination" mantra is pretty pathetic. The false dilemma tripe has to stop.

Story's have points. The point of this story is NOT to "control" the reapers or turn everyone into robot people. You must finish the fight.

And if and when A.I. synthetics rise up, the galaxy will unite again.

They used the Citadel to surprise the galaxy, to keep everyone separated.

BECAUSE UNITED WE CAN BEAT THE REAPERS!