no, it involves not giving in to indoc.. YET. it's resisting indoctrination, as many have before him. of course, this cannot last forever, as those before him have shown..
Well, I really wouldn't put it as 'many before him', seeing as it's borderline impossible do, and each case (with the singular exception of Shiala) involves Shepard basically b---hslapping them with entreaties and logic to do so. Shepard doesn't get that with God Child. And resisting, breaking, all of it involves Shepard, on some level, going against the Reapers and willfully doing so, meaning that on some level, he has to realise his thinking isn't his.
no resisting is fine. nothing we've seen has said that you can't resist, just that in the end, you WILL lose. and no, he doesn't have to realise that his thinking isn't his to resist it. He just has to not change his thinking to something that wasn't his ( "So the illusive man was right" for example). This is the point at which the reaper influence in his mind is trying to persuade him to REJECT destruction of the reapers in favour of other options. Before this point his motives were still his own, but this moment could change that.
Clarification can mean anything. IT just happens to not change the ending but only clarify them. No "massive battle and long missions" needed what so ever.
(Although that would be a pleasant surprise that would redeem bioware for most the fans.)
A few perhaps, but myself on the other hand, would NOT want some half-arsed battle-cut-scene, with Harby.
No don't put words in my mouth, all I want from this abomination is knowing what happened, as a result of EVERYTHING we just did, not some inane badly editted cut-scenes.
I don't understand why people don't spam IT threads with that DLC ad you get at the end of the game, Bioware explicitly say that the Reapers are beaten, so what the hell is there to talk about?
"One more story"
Ever heard of a prequel? Authors aren't obliged to to write their stories in chronological order :/
Besides the ad and the Stargazer don't say that Shepard became a hero as result of something extraneous to the narrative, but as a result of events presented in the game...
I don't understand why people don't spam IT threads with that DLC ad you get at the end of the game, Bioware explicitly say that the Reapers are beaten, so what the hell is there to talk about?
"One more story"
Ever heard of a prequel? Authors aren't obliged to to write their stories in chronological order :/
Besides the ad and the Stargazer don't say that Shepard became a hero as result of something extraneous to the narrative, but as a result of events presented in the game...
Clarification can mean anything. IT just happens to not change the ending but only clarify them. No "massive battle and long missions" needed what so ever.
(Although that would be a pleasant surprise that would redeem bioware for most the fans.)
A few perhaps, but myself on the other hand, would NOT want some half-arsed battle-cut-scene, with Harby.
No don't put words in my mouth, all I want from this abomination is knowing what happened, as a result of EVERYTHING we just did, not some inane badly editted cut-scenes.
Er... it's not quite the same thing. Shepard has first-hand experience in-game and concrete proof that these things have happened. IT is a theory for a reason- not because it's bad, not because it's stupid, but because the evidence isn't air-tight the way Shepard's is in game.
Plus Shepard was provably indoctrinated not 5 minutes before he met Justin Beiber. Or had he always wanted to shoot Anderson?
Indoctrination is akin to mind control... what happened to Shep and Anderson wasn't that.
Speaking of Indoctrination^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, uh somebody slept through this lesson, again?!!
Er... it's not quite the same thing. Shepard has first-hand experience in-game and concrete proof that these things have happened. IT is a theory for a reason- not because it's bad, not because it's stupid, but because the evidence isn't air-tight the way Shepard's is in game.
Plus Shepard was provably indoctrinated not 5 minutes before he met Justin Beiber. Or had he always wanted to shoot Anderson?
The REALLY weird thing about that is TIM was studying how to control reaper forces, not organics.
reaper forces are organics, with synthetic parts. He was studying indoctrination.
Point being he shouldn't have been able to control Shepard the way he did.
The fact that TIM uses indoctrination tech in that sequence (that's the only thing it could be), means that even if you believe that encounter is real, then Shepard has been indoctrinated by the time he meets the Starchild.
I agree, that that tech shouldn't manipulate Shepard without affecting his thoughts. This is why i believe Shepard's still unconscious infront of the portal thing in London, having been knocked unconscious by a near hit from a reaper laser (which i'm pretty sure the codex says isn't really a laser, but that's not really so important)
with the fact that the dreams start in blackness and not white, some of us are starting to think that the hallucination may have started at the mako crash right before the conduit run, as shown here:
interesting, so what causes Shepard to pass out, and let the reaper influence take hold? I never saw Coates comments as being particularly traitorish, just typically Britishly pessimistic that said, based on the stuff in the article and not in the video, it would be interesting if he was indoctrinated.
That said I don't think Harby did use a special indoctrination weapon. Shepard had the process going on in his mind really slowly (the Shepard's mind is strong) all this time. When Harby nearly killed him, he was knocked unconscious. His mental barriers really weakened, and the reaper taint took this opportunity to make a play for Shepard's mind.
Er... it's not quite the same thing. Shepard has first-hand experience in-game and concrete proof that these things have happened. IT is a theory for a reason- not because it's bad, not because it's stupid, but because the evidence isn't air-tight the way Shepard's is in game.
Plus Shepard was provably indoctrinated not 5 minutes before he met Justin Beiber. Or had he always wanted to shoot Anderson?
The REALLY weird thing about that is TIM was studying how to control reaper forces, not organics.
reaper forces are organics, with synthetic parts. He was studying indoctrination.
Point being he shouldn't have been able to control Shepard the way he did.
The fact that TIM uses indoctrination tech in that sequence (that's the only thing it could be), means that even if you believe that encounter is real, then Shepard has been indoctrinated by the time he meets the Starchild.
I agree, that that tech shouldn't manipulate Shepard without affecting his thoughts. This is why i believe Shepard's still unconscious infront of the portal thing in London, having been knocked unconscious by a near hit from a reaper laser (which i'm pretty sure the codex says isn't really a laser, but that's not really so important)
with the fact that the dreams start in blackness and not white, some of us are starting to think that the hallucination may have started at the mako crash right before the conduit run, as shown here:
interesting, so what causes Shepard to pass out, and let the reaper influence take hold? I never saw Coates comments as being particularly traitorish, just typically Britishly pessimistic that said, based on the stuff in the article and not in the video, it would be interesting if he was indoctrinated.
That said I don't think Harby did use a special indoctrination weapon. Shepard had the process going on in his mind really slowly (the Shepard's mind is strong) all this time. When Harby nearly killed him, he was knocked unconscious. His mental barriers really weakened, and the reaper taint took this opportunity to make a play for Shepard's mind.
It never shows what caused the accident, and it never shows them getting out, which is a little suspicious when we know how much bioware likes to show the crew exiting vehicles. Also, it's a lot darker where the mako is which would give more credence to the Shep Alive scene.
I don't know anything for sure, but it makes a bit more sense that he was knocked unconcious in the crash. The reaper on rannoch proves that Shep can't survive that laser, but like you said it could be an indoc laser as per the scene of harbinger on the citadel in arrival.
There is no proof Shep was undergoing indoctrination, except the ending when TIM was controling both him and Anderson. Hell, TIM is even bragging with his new achieved power. I hope EC DLC will cut the IT where it's supposed to be: in a realm of fanfictions.
Everyone IS entitled to their own opinion, you just stated yours, fine!
However, the idea of KNOWING that your character is being Indoctrinated, totally flies in the face of reason!!
I mean COME ON, that's the whole premise/idea, that indoctrination is subtle, not mind-crushingly OBVIOUS, GAH!!!
Doesn't the Destroy ending with high EMS (where Shepard 'breaks free' from indoc) work on the idea that he knows he's been indoctrinated, and struggles to break free?
'Suspects' that indoc is present, would be my guess.
That's quite possible, however if you notice the only time he isn't "lame", is during the final few steps as Shep is shooting the capsule. That is "breaking free", and as such wakes up, back in London.
Shep limps up to the "control" rods, but I still CANNOT understand why the "running into the beam scene", that just bugs me to NO END!!! Synthesis, should not even exist.
Er... it's not quite the same thing. Shepard has first-hand experience in-game and concrete proof that these things have happened. IT is a theory for a reason- not because it's bad, not because it's stupid, but because the evidence isn't air-tight the way Shepard's is in game.
Plus Shepard was provably indoctrinated not 5 minutes before he met Justin Beiber. Or had he always wanted to shoot Anderson?
The REALLY weird thing about that is TIM was studying how to control reaper forces, not organics.
reaper forces are organics, with synthetic parts. He was studying indoctrination.
Point being he shouldn't have been able to control Shepard the way he did.
Why not? TIM was being 'controlled' by the reapers, so TIM was merely the 'conduit' to Sheps' mind, hence the shot being fired into Anderson.
They said that because it's a vague term that can mean anything. I like to think that it means revealing an awesome twist that Bioware has prided themselves in. They do consider themselves to be story tellers after all.
And clarification, as I have said, does not imply a massive battle and long missions, does it?
it doesn't say there won't be either. Saying there would be a massive battle and long missions though, if you were planning on revealing indoctrination as a twist would be rather spoilery wouldn't it?
We can only go with what has been said so far. They have said "clarification", nothing about a long and epic battle with the Reapers to end their threat which most IT theorists think will happen
Some theorists hold to, not myself.
Come on, we still have Reapers to kill, but not by directly fighting them, that's what we built the Crucible for, to kill those over-confident idiots, and start over. That whole three choice idiocy should be scrapped, all we have to do is actually get to the fire mechanism, and USE IT!!!
Er... it's not quite the same thing. Shepard has first-hand experience in-game and concrete proof that these things have happened. IT is a theory for a reason- not because it's bad, not because it's stupid, but because the evidence isn't air-tight the way Shepard's is in game.
Plus Shepard was provably indoctrinated not 5 minutes before he met Justin Beiber. Or had he always wanted to shoot Anderson?
The REALLY weird thing about that is TIM was studying how to control reaper forces, not organics.
reaper forces are organics, with synthetic parts. He was studying indoctrination.
Point being he shouldn't have been able to control Shepard the way he did.
Why not? TIM was being 'controlled' by the reapers, so TIM was merely the 'conduit' to Sheps' mind, hence the shot being fired into Anderson.
Because, while the indoctrinees can be controlled like puppets, they are basically zombies when it comes to that stage. Shepard was no zombie. Also, if Shepard wasn't already indoctrinated, then TIM had to have indoctrinated Shepard pretty quickly, in which case he would end up.. basically braindead. While Shepard doesn't seem particularly bright after this point, he's certianly not braindead.
Funny how the biggest weapon the reapers have, indoctrination is dissmissed so quickly by people. Why shouldn't the reapers attempt to indoctrinate the biggest threat to them? All that end sequence could of happened real time. Edi explained to you how she had to fight Eva core for the body. Shepard fought the reaper virus while in a pod not moving. Then there is the three choices where the creator of the reapers is giving you a choice to destroy it's creations, control them or synthesis them. Two of those options where the solution given by two indoctrinated people (saren and tim) the third is seemingly the option that we where playing for the whole time (destroy). It also felt at the end like I lost control of my Shepard, as in not enough dialogue. There is also the codex for indoctrination. In the end Is far fetch to think that one of the biggest weapons the reapers have was attemtpted on Shepard? Or is it far fetched that the biggest weapon the reapors had was never attempted on Shepard?
You will find that most people do not dismiss the idea of the Reapers wanting to indoctrinate Shep, but of course that is very different to it actually happening
Yep, a god like presence that can be viewed with superstitious awe trying to convince you that you can either control the reapers or combine organics and synthetics into an ultimate life form doesn't sound like an indoctrination attempt at all.... that was sarcasm btw.
The game ends when you make the final choice. Your either indoctrinated or you fought off indoctrination and destroyed the reapers.
Why is it the more poorly you do, gathering EMS, the better chances you have of destroying the Reapers? IE, you don't bother gathering military forces and destroy is the only option presented....
Funny how the biggest weapon the reapers have, indoctrination is dissmissed so quickly by people. Why shouldn't the reapers attempt to indoctrinate the biggest threat to them? All that end sequence could of happened real time. Edi explained to you how she had to fight Eva core for the body. Shepard fought the reaper virus while in a pod not moving. Then there is the three choices where the creator of the reapers is giving you a choice to destroy it's creations, control them or synthesis them. Two of those options where the solution given by two indoctrinated people (saren and tim) the third is seemingly the option that we where playing for the whole time (destroy). It also felt at the end like I lost control of my Shepard, as in not enough dialogue. There is also the codex for indoctrination. In the end Is far fetch to think that one of the biggest weapons the reapers have was attemtpted on Shepard? Or is it far fetched that the biggest weapon the reapors had was never attempted on Shepard?
You will find that most people do not dismiss the idea of the Reapers wanting to indoctrinate Shep, but of course that is very different to it actually happening
Yep, a god like presence that can be viewed with superstitious awe trying to convince you that you can either control the reapers or combine organics and synthetics into an ultimate life form doesn't sound like an indoctrination attempt at all.... that was sarcasm btw.
Lol wut, "superstituos awe", you're describing the Catalyst in accurate terms just to support IT. The Catalyst doesn't convibce you to pick anyway, just lays out the information you need to make an informed choice
Informed, my ass............you're picking blue or green is idiotic, that's for sure, and this isn't any substantiated proof, this is merely the star-twit, decieving you into false hope. Misguided hope, that you truly believe what that ingrate-kid is telling you.
Er... it's not quite the same thing. Shepard has first-hand experience in-game and concrete proof that these things have happened. IT is a theory for a reason- not because it's bad, not because it's stupid, but because the evidence isn't air-tight the way Shepard's is in game.
Plus Shepard was provably indoctrinated not 5 minutes before he met Justin Beiber. Or had he always wanted to shoot Anderson?
The REALLY weird thing about that is TIM was studying how to control reaper forces, not organics.
reaper forces are organics, with synthetic parts. He was studying indoctrination.
Point being he shouldn't have been able to control Shepard the way he did.
The fact that TIM uses indoctrination tech in that sequence (that's the only thing it could be), means that even if you believe that encounter is real, then Shepard has been indoctrinated by the time he meets the Starchild.
I agree, that that tech shouldn't manipulate Shepard without affecting his thoughts. This is why i believe Shepard's still unconscious infront of the portal thing in London, having been knocked unconscious by a near hit from a reaper laser (which i'm pretty sure the codex says isn't really a laser, but that's not really so important)
with the fact that the dreams start in blackness and not white, some of us are starting to think that the hallucination may have started at the mako crash right before the conduit run, as shown here:
interesting, so what causes Shepard to pass out, and let the reaper influence take hold? I never saw Coates comments as being particularly traitorish, just typically Britishly pessimistic that said, based on the stuff in the article and not in the video, it would be interesting if he was indoctrinated.
That said I don't think Harby did use a special indoctrination weapon. Shepard had the process going on in his mind really slowly (the Shepard's mind is strong) all this time. When Harby nearly killed him, he was knocked unconscious. His mental barriers really weakened, and the reaper taint took this opportunity to make a play for Shepard's mind.
It never shows what caused the accident, and it never shows them getting out, which is a little suspicious when we know how much bioware likes to show the crew exiting vehicles. Also, it's a lot darker where the mako is which would give more credence to the Shep Alive scene.
I don't know anything for sure, but it makes a bit more sense that he was knocked unconcious in the crash. The reaper on rannoch proves that Shep can't survive that laser, but like you said it could be an indoc laser as per the scene of harbinger on the citadel in arrival.
lol my point was that i don't think there was an "indoc laser" being used. Shepard's reduced willpower was merely a side effect of the attack he narrowly survived. Harby doesn't mess around. The battle and indeed the war can be won by preventing anyone from reaching that beam. I believe killing was what he was genuinely trying to do. Shepard was already being indoctrinated, but it was too slow. He had to be stopped.
OK, because the article seems to suggest Shepard's awake during the actual charge? I do find it suspicious that Coates who was supposed to be charging with us didn't make it there, but was fine enough to tell everyone the forces were decimated. HE wasn't decimated! neither was Anderson apparently (even though Shepard took a little nap halfway, and Anderson seems unscathed), and if you look at the normandy cutscene aftewards, neither were your friends! Everyone in the mako survived and Shepard and Anderson are the only ones who make it up there?
I must admit watching the video, that that transition does feel awkward. So do you think that Shepard wakes up in the rubble of the Mako then?
Retour en haut
that said, based on the stuff in the article and not in the video, it would be interesting if he was indoctrinated.
