96 réponses à ce sujet

[keesio74]

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...

See, how does that even make sense. Ok, we're going to change Anders history and sexual orientation depending on what sex your character is. Anders character should be the same no matter what. If he was just straight out gay, more power to him, but I just don't like how that whole thing is set up.

History is not "changed". It is being written as the game is played. Nothing is fully defined as Varric tells his tale. The choices of player will write history. Remember... the whole game is just history the way Varric remembers it (or is telling it). Merrill and Fenris can be gay based on your gameplay. Just like Isabela can either come back to help Kirkwall or leave forever depending on your gameplay. Hawke could have a brother or sister depending on your class.

btw - I mentioned only Merrill and Fenris. Anders and Isabela are bisexual no matter what.

Modifié par keesio74, 06 mai 2012 - 06:08 .

[Maugrim]

keesio74 wrote...

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...

See, how does that even make sense. Ok, we're going to change Anders history and sexual orientation depending on what sex your character is. Anders character should be the same no matter what. If he was just straight out gay, more power to him, but I just don't like how that whole thing is set up.

History is not "changed". It is being written as the game is played. Nothing is fully defined as Varric tells his tale. The choices of player will write history. Remember... the whole game is just history the way Varric remembers it (or is telling it). Merrill and Fenris can be gay based on your gameplay. Just like Isabela can either come back to help Kirkwall or leave forever depending on your gameplay. Hawke could have a brother or sister depending on your class.

btw - I mentioned only Merrill and Fenris. Anders and Isabela are bisexual no matter what.

No. /Sten

David Gaider wrote...

I'm not saying they could be anything-- there are a few instances (Anders and Isabela, primarily) when their past might come up. I'll point out that, with Anders, he doesn't say "I am attracted only to men" or "I am attracted to both men and women". You could decide one way or the other... perhaps if someone says a member of the opposite sex or same sex is attractive, that's enough for you? But they simply don't say where they preference lies. My point is that their actions don't change, yet some people are deciding that their inference is enough to suggest the characters alter their preferences at the player's whim.

Even if they did, I'm not sure that would be a crime. Regardless, it's not the case.

The actions and sexualities do not change based upon the player character.

Lets be honest here these are videogame characters, they don't have the broad spectrum of sexuality that real humans do.  And if they did and can have relationships with both sexes...they are bisexual. We are just free to interpet however we want, doesn't mean some interpetations aren't wrong.  Someone can pretend Anders didn't have sex with Karl all they want because he didn't bring it up to their female character...but he still did.  Even if you don't trigger the banter Isabela still slept with a dwarf in drag or Merrill admires the quanari physique or whats to dream about the PC in their underwear regardless of sex, Fenris still checks out that chick in his story etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 mai 2012 - 06:45 .

[M0RD3CA1 VII]

Alexa_ wrote...


That's it! As David Gaider himself says THEY'RE NOT BISEXUAL!!!

In a playthrough with female Hawke, Anders is straight for the player and Karl is just a friend!

In a playthrough with male Hawke, Anders mentions Karl as former lover to show the player that he is gay!

That's the "subjective sexuality" mentioned by David Gaider!

And you just proved my point lol ... Anders history changes depending on which sex your character is

It makes more sense that he was never straight, likes guys and girls, and just doesn't mention his relationship with Karl  to a female Hawke

[Leoroc]

It's certainly possible everyone in DA is bisexual, to some degree or another. Sexuality is a gradient not a toggle. If not for the strong anti-homosexual taboo present in our society the "bisexuality" rate could potentially be 50% or higher as some historians have suggested may have been the way it was in a few Ancient Greek city-states.

[Monica21]

Leoroc wrote...

It's certainly possible everyone in DA is bisexual, to some degree or another. Sexuality is a gradient not a toggle..

It's possible that four people in my circle of exactly eight friends are a 2-4 on the Kinsey scale, but it's highly unlikely that all four of those people want to have sex with me, much less engage in a long term relationship.

[Leoroc]

Monica21 wrote...

Leoroc wrote...

It's certainly possible everyone in DA is bisexual, to some degree or another. Sexuality is a gradient not a toggle..

It's possible that four people in my circle of exactly eight friends are a 2-4 on the Kinsey scale, but it's highly unlikely that all four of those people want to have sex with me, much less engage in a long term relationship.

Funny, in my four playthroughs only one of them was ever interested in those things at a time, and I had to really work to persuade two of them (Isabela doesn't want long-term and Anders started off not wanting to hurt me).

Unless you banged all four of them in your playthrough, their orientations are canonically unknown.

Again though, like attracts like. The reason they could be following you around like dumb puppies to begin with they obviously like something about you.

[Monica21]

My point is that it's still extremely unlikely that half of the people you know are willing to have even casual sex, regardless of circumstance. Regardless of even how much reason you've given them to personally dislike you. Throw in a few flirts after you've insulted them by saying how much you love the Templars and mages need to be controlled, yadda yadda yadda, and it's all good. And if I disagree with everything they stand for, what's to like about me? Why on earth would Anders continue to follow me around and even live in my house after I try to turn him in?

I get the "alternate reality" argument, but it isn't to the player, just to the PC. The player has to be given sufficient reason to suspend disbelief (even in a fantasy RPG) and having every romanceable character be one that can be romanced by the same or opposite sex is not within the realm of belief.

[Silfren]

Every love interest is open to every gender for reasons of inclusivity. It is Bioware's attempt at not shutting any players out of playing the gender they want to while romancing the LI they want to.

It's a great marketing move and a score for non-hetero folks. Why do we have to have 20 million threads on this topic?

[Nerdage]

If I can play the character I want the way I want to, I don't really care about this sort of thing. At no point during DA2 did I think "this game would be better if my romance turned me down for my character creation choice", nor indeed "this game would be better if other people's romances turned them down for their character creation choice".

Live and let live?

[Monica21]

Inclusivity in any context deters replayability. It's not just the unrealistic sexuality of the LI's, but that's part of it. If I can have essentially the same experience romancing Anders as a male as I do as a female, then why should I replay?

I simply don't like it when games try to be all things to all people. They sacrifice depth for breadth, and that makes for a boring grind of a game.

[whykikyouwhy]

Monica21 wrote...

Inclusivity in any context deters replayability. It's not just the unrealistic sexuality of the LI's, but that's part of it. If I can have essentially the same experience romancing Anders as a male as I do as a female, then why should I replay?

I simply don't like it when games try to be all things to all people. They sacrifice depth for breadth, and that makes for a boring grind of a game.

I would wager that lots of folks felt that inclusivity in DA2 allowed for more replayability, as opposed to detering it. But, there are lots of reasons for replaying any game. I guess it all depends on what you're looking for when you play. 

[bleetman]

Monica21 wrote...

Inclusivity in any context deters replayability. It's not just the unrealistic sexuality of the LI's, but that's part of it. If I can have essentially the same experience romancing Anders as a male as I do as a female, then why should I replay?

Exactly. Having each romance available for both genders completely hamstrings replayability. Obviously, the best solution is to keep romances heterosexual, so that I can replay a particular romance from another genders perspective but have a different... enough... exper-

Haaaaaaang on.

Ok, let me put it this way. The number of individual playthroughs I would have to go through to get all the romance content for each available companion in DA:O was four: one for each companion. In DA2, the number is five. One for each companion. The only difference is, I've got the ability to mix around which gender my character is, rather than rolling whichever one is required.

The 'it hurts replayability' argument is inane.

Modifié par bleetman, 07 mai 2012 - 03:50 .

[Sunnie]

hussey 92 wrote...

Evamitchelle wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...

Every companion that can be romanced
is bi-sexual. Every seemingly straight companion cannot be romanced.
Except, of course, in the case of Sebastian, who I am so glad they
added. It just seems unlikely to me that they would all be bi-sexual (no
they don't actually call themselves bi-sexual, but that is the
generally accepted term). I really have no problem with it besides the
point of it just being extremely unlikely that they would all be
bi-sexual, ya know? The others don't count because they couldn't be
romanced. lol.

lol...

1. You contradicted yourself in the first three sentences.
2. The only openly "Bi" characters in the series so far are Isabela and Zevran.
3. Ever other LI is either straight or hero-sexual.

Straight
*Morigan
*Alistair
*Sebastian

Hero-sexual
*Leliana
*Merrill
*Fenris
*Anders

Bisexual
*Zevran
*Isabela

So, you see, not all are "Bi", in fact they are the smallest group of the bunch.

Well Leliana had a relationship with Marjolaine and Anders an encounter with Isabela no matter what Warden/Hawke you played. So I'm not sure they qualify as hero-sexual. Also just because Anders doesn't tell f!Hawke about Karl doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen - I just think it's counter-productive to tell a woman you're potentially interested in that your first relationship was with another man, which is why Anders didn't say that 10 minutes after meeting her the way he did with m!Hawke. 

I know it was hinted at but was it ever proven Leliana had a relationship with Marjolaine?

And I agree with the Anders Karl thing, Anders only brought it up with male Hawke cause he was trying to hit on him by suggesting he's been with guys before.

A little late, but oh well....

The reason I classed Leliana and Anders as "hero-sexual"  is because they do not have any sexy times with any other game characters other than the Warden/Hawke during the play through, ergo, hero-sexual. Isabela and Zevran both have sexy times with both sexes during a play through, ergo, bisexual. it doesn't matter what attractions these characters had outside of the game, it only matters what they do with or around the protagonist.

[Monica21]

bleetman wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Inclusivity in any context deters replayability. It's not just the unrealistic sexuality of the LI's, but that's part of it. If I can have essentially the same experience romancing Anders as a male as I do as a female, then why should I replay?

Exactly. Having each romance available for both genders completely hamstrings replayability. Obviously, the best solution is to keep romances heterosexual, so that I can replay a particular romance from another genders perspective but have a different... enough... exper-

Haaaaaaang on.

Well, I certainly didn't say that was the best solution, so I'm glad you stopped yourself.  I said inclusivity in any context. The context in this particular thread is sexual preference. Inclusivity is a one-size-fits-all game, and having LI's that try to be all things to all gamers is leaning toward that. I also never said romances need to be heterosexual. We knew in Awakening that Anders was bi, so why isn't he openly bi in DA2? What would be wrong with an openly gay character?

If handled correctly, having LI's with specific preferences can make a gameplay feel much more significant than gender-neutral responses. Gender-neutral is pretty boring and it's been a long time since I've bothered romancing anyone in DA2.

[Zjarcal]

Sunnie22 wrote...

A little late, but oh well....

The reason I classed Leliana and Anders as "hero-sexual"  is because they do not have any sexy times with any other game characters other than the Warden/Hawke during the play through, ergo, hero-sexual. Isabela and Zevran both have sexy times with both sexes during a play through, ergo, bisexual. it doesn't matter what attractions these characters had outside of the game, it only matters what they do with or around the protagonist.

I really strongly disagree with the last thing you say about what happens outside the game not mattering but anyway, regarding Leliana...

Foursome with Isabela and Zevran. Bisexual.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 07 mai 2012 - 04:50 .

[bleetman]

Monica21 wrote...
Well, I certainly didn't say that was the best solution, so I'm glad you stopped yourself.  I said inclusivity in any context. The context in this particular thread is sexual preference. Inclusivity is a one-size-fits-all game, and having LI's that try to be all things to all gamers is leaning toward that. I also never said romances need to be heterosexual. We knew in Awakening that Anders was bi, so why isn't he openly bi in DA2? What would be wrong with an openly gay character?

If handled correctly, having LI's with specific preferences can make a gameplay feel much more significant than gender-neutral responses. Gender-neutral is pretty boring and it's been a long time since I've bothered romancing anyone in DA2.

Fair enough. I misunderstood earlier then, so sorry for that. Though I'm not sure what would make Anders more openly gay than him hitting on male characters. Him actually mentioning to a female Hawke that he was involved with Karl wouldn't hurt I suppose, though I largely figured that part out without him needing to specifically say it.

It'd certainly be swell if they had more to differentiate between romances for each gender for a particular character, sure. I don't view that as an argument against inclusivity, though. Not including them doesn't solve the problem so much as it removes one half so they're no longer comparable.

Modifié par bleetman, 07 mai 2012 - 04:53 .

[Maria Caliban]

Bisexual > All.

[Esbatty]

Hawke transcends gender preference.

[Lenimph]

You don't choose who you fall in love/lust with.

/Thread

[Alessa]

For me David Gaider's "subjective sexuality" of all romanceable characters is perfect!

All LIs have the sexual preference the player wants them to have, because it's the player's "reality".

If the player wants Anders to be straight, the player choses to play as female Hawke and Anders is straight in this "reality"/playthrough.

If the player wants Fenris to be gay, the player choses to play as male Hawke and Fenris is gay in this "reality"/playthrough.

Same for any other LI... perfect solution in my opinion. I like "subjective sexuality"!

Modifié par Alessa-00, 07 mai 2012 - 05:45 .