96 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

esper wrote...
These aren't people they are computer characters in a computer world. In the real world if there isn't someone on off your orientation and/or like around you can go out an meet others. That are impossible in a computer world since only three to four people in the whole world are coded as being interested in you.

Um, right. That's why there are multiple love interests in the DA series, and that's still possible if you limit their sexuality.

Also you assumes that everyone replays. Fact is that only a small portion (which of course is overrepresented here on BSN since we are fans of the setting) replays a game, not to mention long games. Why should they not have all the LI's being LI's for them.  And then we have not even talked about players who only play one gender - again they are also a large portion.

Well, since this is that message board and a vast majority of the people who post here do replay, then the audience is the correct one, right?

And if we talk about roleplay then everyone isn't interested in you unless you go out of your way to make it so. Fenrs and Merrill never shows any interest in my Hawke in 8/10 playthrough, actually I would say that Isabella too never have shown interest beyong some few comments and hint about sex in act 1 per act 2 where she knows Hawke they are definitly both not interested.

Merrill is the only one who doesn't comment on sex but I chalk that up to natural shyness. Fenris makes a sideways attempt at hitting on you as soon as he becomes a companion.

I honestly don't see what is wrong with having a almost purely aesthectiv gender. It is nice to not have to be insulted because of ones gender and/or sexual orientation. I don't see how the characthers sexual orientation detracts from their characthers even if they are player-sexual. I am still angry beyond the black city to be excluded from Morrigan and I don't see how her being interested in a female warden would have made her and the crisises in the relantionship with her any less good. (The same for alistar). And I don't see how it detracts from your precious roleplaying. If you don't want all size fits all then simply make some roleplaying rules for yourself saing that for example Fenris will never romance a male Hawke and then follow those rules. You are free to place your own limitations on the games, don't force them onto the rest of us.

You're not excluded from Morrigan. All you have to do is play a male character. Problem solved. See how easy that was?

Modifié par Monica21, 08 mai 2012 - 04:42 .

[Ryzaki]

Where's Fenris sideways attempt at hitting on Hawke?

Because if you're talking about that capable comment you do realize people who aren't very social do tend to be mistaken for trying to hit on someone when they're not. (God knows it happens to me enough times).

It was an awkward fumbling compliment (this is shown when Hawke jumps down his throat about it with the heartbreak option). It's also shown in the neutral option where if you take it at face value he never hits on you in any way shape or form.

Unless you're talking about another scene I missed.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 mai 2012 - 05:11 .

[rak72]

I played a male character & romanced Morrigan - it was one of my favorite play throughs People shouldn't box themselves in.

[Melca36]

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...

I mean, really? I can understand one male and one female bi-sexual person, but why would you possibly make every companion in Dragon Age 2  bi-sexual? It really bugged me with Anders especially. Cause if my male PC turns him down, I get rival points.

Oh my God! This post again.


So you get rival points...........BIG FREAKING DEAL! They disappear fast if you play the game right.

[Silfren]

Ryzaki wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Inclusivity in any context deters replayability. It's not just the unrealistic sexuality of the LI's, but that's part of it. If I can have essentially the same experience romancing Anders as a male as I do as a female, then why should I replay?

I simply don't like it when games try to be all things to all people. They sacrifice depth for breadth, and that makes for a boring grind of a game.

I would guess, then, that you are part of a demographic NOT traditionally shafted by an industry that routinely ignores people who aren't white, straight, generally all-round heteronormative people.  Because it's just too easy for people who DO see their interests represented by a game to dismiss the complaints of those of us who don't.

Good lord I agree with you on something.

Dear Gods above I think the apocalypse may be happening.

[esper]

Monica21 wrote...

esper wrote...
These aren't people they are computer characters in a computer world. In the real world if there isn't someone on off your orientation and/or like around you can go out an meet others. That are impossible in a computer world since only three to four people in the whole world are coded as being interested in you.

Um, right. That's why there are multiple love interests in the DA series, and that's still possible if you limit their sexuality.

Also you assumes that everyone replays. Fact is that only a small portion (which of course is overrepresented here on BSN since we are fans of the setting) replays a game, not to mention long games. Why should they not have all the LI's being LI's for them.  And then we have not even talked about players who only play one gender - again they are also a large portion.

Well, since this is that message board and a vast majority of the people who post here do replay, then the audience is the correct one, right?

And if we talk about roleplay then everyone isn't interested in you unless you go out of your way to make it so. Fenrs and Merrill never shows any interest in my Hawke in 8/10 playthrough, actually I would say that Isabella too never have shown interest beyong some few comments and hint about sex in act 1 per act 2 where she knows Hawke they are definitly both not interested.

Merrill is the only one who doesn't comment on sex but I chalk that up to natural shyness. Fenris makes a sideways attempt at hitting on you as soon as he becomes a companion.

I honestly don't see what is wrong with having a almost purely aesthectiv gender. It is nice to not have to be insulted because of ones gender and/or sexual orientation. I don't see how the characthers sexual orientation detracts from their characthers even if they are player-sexual. I am still angry beyond the black city to be excluded from Morrigan and I don't see how her being interested in a female warden would have made her and the crisises in the relantionship with her any less good. (The same for alistar). And I don't see how it detracts from your precious roleplaying. If you don't want all size fits all then simply make some roleplaying rules for yourself saing that for example Fenris will never romance a male Hawke and then follow those rules. You are free to place your own limitations on the games, don't force them onto the rest of us.

You're not excluded from Morrigan. All you have to do is play a male character. Problem solved. See how easy that was?

I am excluded for Morrigan, I don't play male characthers. As I said very few actually replay the game and others of us don't joy taking on roles to weird for us. I would never play a male characther in a video game were female is possible. I tried in da:o, but I just don't enjoy dragging to all the freaking slow motion fight for one little thing. A lot of other people feels the same way, and even more don't even play the game twice. And BSN are a minority of very opiniated group and also we are split in two on every matter, so catering to us is impossible. And again if you were into same sex romances in da:o you had 1 choice. 1.

Fenris never hit on my Hawke in a side way fashion. He complicated my Hawke for her awesome work (and it was awesome, we only survived an ambush and a mansion full of demons, so that warrants no compliment at all) and my Hawke could choose to understand the compliment as flirting or not, I don't live in a world very every time someone tells me I am capable they are flirting and neither does my Hawke.

[sylvanaerie]

Frankly, I've played through the game several times (with varying imports to see as much content as I could) with both male and female characters, and I have enjoyed playing both genders (unusual in a game since I played DAO almost exclusively with feminine wardens). I've romanced every companion except Anders (the very idea nauseates me). He's NOT my type personality and appearance (and using mods didn't help--my abhorrance to his personality overrode anything appearance-wise). If he had been the only option for romance (had he been the only heterosexual option) I'd have done the game as a male a LOT more often than I did (About half and half on both genders).  Which would have restricted the number of replay's I did.

I'm a white, heterosexual female who enjoys games, who enjoys REPLAYING the games i really like. DA2 had it's flaws and some characters I couldn't stand, but instead of using them, I pretty much just left those companions in their home-base and used the ones I enjoyed playing with. Yes, the ending wasn't much about 'choice' but in the context of what I did in the game, which companions my Hawke 'shared it' with I directed it's pacing and storytelling. AND I got to see two sides of relationships with most of them (exception being, I've never been able to rival Aveline or Varric).

Maybe I am a small minority of players who actually enjoyed the mutability of the companions, but I'm glad Bioware decided not to skimp on that aspect, since the game is pretty linear, you aren't given a lot of leeway in how quests play out, and for every single player making it to the end, the world state is still the same--Templars or mages side, a war is still sparked between the factions by the end.

Each playthrough (I've done about 12) had varying characters with varying temperaments and likes/dislikes.  Several of my characters were gay (or bi) and some were straight. 
My 'canon'--the one I enjoyed the most/related to the most, was Kit, a female rogue who romanced and finished the game with Isabela.  My favorite male was William, an aggressive mage, who slept with Isabela (had intended to end with Isabela and got ninja'manced by Merrill).

My most recent playthrough was a sassy gay male rogue (Raphael) who rivalmanced Fenris and the entire time I did, it felt right and completely natural to me.  I don't metagame when it comes to roleplaying (much).  I base a large part of my affection for characters on personality, not on gender, and I don't think the entire time playing "Oh they made this character bi".  If I wanted to think in my head Fenris prefered men, then Fenris prefered men, even though previously I had romanced him on females.

Should Bioware cater only to those players who want one specific playthrough, limiting options/choices just because a very vocal group decide they don't like the idea of mutable sexuality?  It's an enjoyable part of the game since it pulls me in more, but it is just a part of the game, another choice, a completely (by CHOICE) option.  If you don't want to romance a particular character, don't romance him.  I was turned off by Anders wanting to get into my PC's pants within 30 seconds after meeting him/her, not offended by his preference (or lack thereof) of genders. 

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 mai 2012 - 10:11 .

[Merlex]

Silfren wrote...

I would guess, then, that you are part of a demographic NOT traditionally shafted by an industry that routinely ignores people who aren't white, straight, generally all-round heteronormative people.  Because it's just too easy for people who DO see their interests represented by a game to dismiss the complaints of those of us who don't.

Uh, what does skin color have to do with this discussion?

[Merlex]

M0RD3CA1 VII wrote...

I mean, really? I can understand one male and one female bi-sexual person, but why would you possibly make every companion in Dragon Age 2  bi-sexual? It really bugged me with Anders especially. Cause if my male PC turns him down, I get rival points.

The more you get to know Anders, you come to understand that he is very unstable. He feels very alone and excluded from society. So he takes any form of rejection very badly. That's why you gain rival points, he is just nuts.

Modifié par Merlex, 12 mai 2012 - 02:42 .

[N7KnightSabre]

Bioware got tired of having to hear people complain that this person wasn't available for this sexual orientation and just decided "Heck, make them all available for Hawke! Done."
I find that the orientation gives something to the character, like in Mass Effect. Garrus straight, Steve gay. What did you think when Kaidan suddenly became a romance option for male Shepard? Ultimately, I don't care. I like that people get to experience whatever LI they want. But I do believe that it adds something to the character when it's defined.

[Karlone123]

Is this really a game-breaking problem?

[Dwarva]

Karlone123 wrote...

Is this really a game-breaking problem?

Who said it was?

[robertthebard]

esper wrote...

I am excluded for Morrigan, I don't play male characthers. As I said very few actually replay the game and others of us don't joy taking on roles to weird for us. I would never play a male characther in a video game were female is possible. I tried in da:o, but I just don't enjoy dragging to all the freaking slow motion fight for one little thing. A lot of other people feels the same way, and even more don't even play the game twice. And BSN are a minority of very opiniated group and also we are split in two on every matter, so catering to us is impossible. And again if you were into same sex romances in da:o you had 1 choice. 1.

Fenris never hit on my Hawke in a side way fashion. He complicated my Hawke for her awesome work (and it was awesome, we only survived an ambush and a mansion full of demons, so that warrants no compliment at all) and my Hawke could choose to understand the compliment as flirting or not, I don't live in a world very every time someone tells me I am capable they are flirting and neither does my Hawke.

You chose to limit yourself.  This is, of course, probably part of the reason these companions are written the way they are, which of course gets more people complaining.  Fenris hit on my male and female Hawke's in the mansion in the initial conversation, and I know he did because on my fHawke, I encouraged it.  I then found myself railroaded into a romance with Anders, not sure how that happened...  At any rate, the options were there, but you chose not to take them.  It should be no big deal since you made a choice to ignore them.

[KeeperMage]

People seem to get very upset about this particular issue. I personally understand both sides of it. But sometimes the fact that a character was hero sexual didnt make sense to the characters personality and was just confusing. It would just be nice if bioware put in the time to make it more customized like in Origins.

[PizzaThe Hutt]

I think it would be hilarious if they had a Ho-Hawke talent tree. The blooming rose knows who their number one customer is: Hawke. Though I don't really mind the fact that they can all be romanced by either gendered-Hawke. It isn't like you HAVE to romance a companion in the first place.

[PizzaThe Hutt]

LadyPaine wrote...

What did you think when Kaidan suddenly became a romance option for male Shepard? Ultimately, I don't care. I like that people get to experience whatever LI they want. But I do believe that it adds something to the character when it's defined.

Just throwing this out there, Kaidan was originally supposed to be availiable for a male Shepard romance but they scrapped the idea yet kept some of the files on the ME1 disc and someone made a mod for it that carried the romance throughout ME2(like Kaidan would hug the Male shep on Horizon and if you stay loyal to him they show male shepard looking at a pic of kaidan) and to ME3 so they decided to let people have the KaidanxMale Shepard romance who didn't have a PC to download the mod. 

[EricHVela]

As I mentioned elsewhere: I think Anders had a relationship with Karl if broHawke brings up a romance option and is "just friends" with Karl if it's Lady Hawke.

IMHO, that creates a waffling character.

Sure, he's only bisexual if one metagames it, but how many are truly immune to metagaming? The writers can't be that daft. Can they?

I think Anders is a perfect example of how not to handle bisexuality. The idea that a character is someone else when the player chooses a different gender for their protagonist makes the character's backstory become inane and inconsequential. The character is being insincere to at least one of the protagonists thanks to metagaming.

That said, I think bisexuality and homosexuality seem much more common in Dragon Age than it does in real life, but there are valid examples of in-character reasons for that.

Yet, it can still go too far for a protagonist to attract only bisexual characters. Even in Dragon Age, that seems like pandering rather than sincerity.

[Ryzaki]

I'll never understand why all bisexual companions is a big deal.

I extremely dislike characters like Zevran and Isabella hitting on my Warden. I deal with it. Its not like the romance is forced on you.

[CuriousArtemis]

ReggarBlane wrote...

That said, I think bisexuality and homosexuality seem much more common in Dragon Age than it does in real life, but there are valid examples of in-character reasons for that.

I know more gay and lesbian people in my real life circle of friends and colleagues than are represented in all DA and ME games combined.

It's pretty darn common, dude. 

Ryzaki wrote...

I'll never understand why all bisexual companions is a big deal. 

 

Latent homophobia.  

[Dwarva]

Edit: Never mind....am not getting sucked into this here too...

Modifié par Staarbux, 11 juillet 2012 - 09:10 .

[JamesStark]

I can understand why they did it. It means that players won't be limited based on there sexual preference.
Anders does bug me though. To me, he's straight.
Fenris we knew nothing about until this game so I don't really care.
Isabella is more omnisexual.
I actually think Merril is Hawkesexual. She gives no indication that she likes women at all except in regards to Hawke, but it fits her character to be someone heroic like Hawke regardless of gender.

[Renmiri1]

Anders gives me the same impression.. He is crazy about Hawke, no matter what gender