204 réponses à ce sujet

[antares_sublight]

The relationship and dialogue with Tali in ME2 was really well done and enjoyable. In ME3, it's weak. It's already been posted that most of the relationships and romances are weakly done, at least in contrast to Liara and Ashley. But Shepard's interaction with Tali just seems especially cold to me. 

If romancing Tali:
1. Shepard never says he loves her. She says it multiple times to him, but Shepard never does. In other romances, Shepard says it to the LI, but with Tali it's like he's uncomfortably avoiding it.
2. In the Geth ship, Tali pulls him up from the falling elevator and he just says "I'm alright". Not even a "thanks"? I'm sure this is the same for any other character, but it was just wierd.
3. On Rannoch, she's talking about how great it's going to be to have a home, and when Shepard asks if the quarians will get used to living in one place and Tali responds about how they've been used to carrying their homes around with them, Shepard silently hands her a rock. Good job, Shep. Smooth. (Edit: I agree this one is on the edge, the sentiment behind it is certainly nice. It just seemed to fit the pattern)
2. Post-Rannoch, Shepard can't even bring himself to ask her to stay on the Normandy. "Because I respect you, dammit" is a horrible line, IMO. That's what people say when they just "want to be friends".
3. The romance scene is basically just a lazy fade-to-black. There's nothing there at all. This is not specific to Tali, though. However,
4. The post-romance pep-chat is really cold. In other romance scenes, Shepard tells the LI that the LI being there means everything, or that he'd not want to be anywhere else or something similarly touching. Shepard will say he loves the LI and kiss. But with Tali, he says he's not sure if there will be anything left, and when she says she reaches for him in times of trouble, he just says "Thanks" and walks away. WTH? Who is this guy?
5. In the final good-bye, the only redeeming part is Tali woefully saying she wants more time. But Shepard can't say anything of any value or sentiment even at this point. Just "I know". Seriously? What a cold ass.

Tali: I love you!
Shepard: Thanks, I'm alright.

Edit: To be clear, #s 4, and 5 are the ones I dislike the most. And of course, there are others that are incomparably underdeveloped. I'm in no way meaning to diminish any complaint about any other relationship with my observations. 

Modifié par antares_sublight, 06 mai 2012 - 06:05 .

[David7204]

Well, I did think it kind of ended on a sour note. But I thought the stone thing was very sweet.

[antares_sublight]

David7204 wrote...

Well, I did think it kind of ended on a sour note. But I thought the stone thing was very sweet.

Yeah, at first I did too. But then I realized he doesn't say anything, just gives her a rock. I wasn't totally sure about including that one in the list, to be honest. 

[DTKT]

It's pretty obvious that the Liara romance arc had the most attention. I guess the rest all suffered in quality.

[David7204]

Just to be sure, you do understand the meaning behind the gesture of giving her a stone, right?

[Cheesy Blue]

better than 90% of the other romances. just be thankful you didn't romance any me2 squad mates.

[Raiil]

DTKT wrote...

It's pretty obvious that the Liara romance arc had the most attention. I guess the rest all suffered in quality.

Less a guess, more a cold, hard reality. 

[Faded-Myth]

Tali: "Shepard. I give to you land from my planet to start a family, my support throughout the hardships you will face, and my undying love."
Shepard: "I give you..."
(Shepard looks around, picks up a rock.)
Shepard: "...this rock. Which I found on the land you gave me."
Tali: "But...it's not even a rock."
Shepard: "It's made of air. It's an air rock. It's rare."

[antares_sublight]

David7204 wrote...

Just to be sure, you do understand the meaning behind the gesture of giving her a stone, right?

Of course, she can carry around some of her homeworld now. I got it. It's just done in kind of a cold way, IMO. Like I said, this one is on the edge, I included it because it seemed to fit in the narrative created by the rest.

[DTKT]

Faded-Myth wrote...

Tali: "Shepard. I give to you land from my planet to start a family, my support throughout the hardships you will face, and my undying love."
Shepard: "I give you..."
(Shepard looks around, picks up a rock.)
Shepard: "...this rock. Which I found on the land you gave me."
Tali: "But...it's not even a rock."
Shepard: "It's made of air. It's an air rock. It's rare."

Invisible rocks have many uses.

[Iakus]

antares_sublight wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Well, I did think it kind of ended on a sour note. But I thought the stone thing was very sweet.

Yeah, at first I did too. But then I realized he doesn't say anything, just gives her a rock. I wasn't totally sure about including that one in the list, to be honest. 

It's not just a rock, it's a rock from Rannoch.  It's taking what Tali said about  the quarians being used to carrying thier homes with them a step further.  Rannoch is her home now, so by giving her the rock, he's giving her a piece of her home to carry with her.  It's not so much cold as deadpan.

Modifié par iakus, 06 mai 2012 - 05:27 .

[Makrys]

Faded-Myth wrote...

Tali: "Shepard. I give to you land from my planet to start a family, my support throughout the hardships you will face, and my undying love."
Shepard: "I give you..."
(Shepard looks around, picks up a rock.)
Shepard: "...this rock. Which I found on the land you gave me."
Tali: "But...it's not even a rock."
Shepard: "It's made of air. It's an air rock. It's rare."

I lol'd

[Faded-Myth]

DTKT wrote...

Faded-Myth wrote...

Tali: "Shepard. I give to you land from my planet to start a family, my support throughout the hardships you will face, and my undying love."
Shepard: "I give you..."
(Shepard looks around, picks up a rock.)
Shepard: "...this rock. Which I found on the land you gave me."
Tali: "But...it's not even a rock."
Shepard: "It's made of air. It's an air rock. It's rare."

Invisible rocks have many uses.

You can hit invisible people with them.

Once, this invisible burglar broke into my invisible house to steal my invisible valuables, so I hit him with my invisible rock.

[Miphious]

Seriously? You want to complain about how undeveloped the Tali romance is? It's one of the more developed romances in the game.

I'd much rather they bulk up Jack, Thane and Jacob romances than add even more to an already well-developed romance.

And for the record, I was uncomfortable with my Shepard saying she loved Kaidan since she was renegade and just using Kaidan, but I had to say it because that's what the dialogue was. You can't please everyone. Some will want to say it while others won't. 

Modifié par Miphious, 06 mai 2012 - 05:29 .

[edisnooM]

Valentia X wrote...

DTKT wrote...

It's pretty obvious that the Liara romance arc had the most attention. I guess the rest all suffered in quality.

Less a guess, more a cold, hard reality. 

But even it had issues, like Liara calling Shepard friend through most of the game regardless of choices in previous games.

[antares_sublight]

iakus wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Well, I did think it kind of ended on a sour note. But I thought the stone thing was very sweet.

Yeah, at first I did too. But then I realized he doesn't say anything, just gives her a rock. I wasn't totally sure about including that one in the list, to be honest. 

It's not just a rock, it's a rock from Rannoch.  It's taking what Tali said about  the quarians being used to carrying thier homes with them a step further.  Rannoch is her home now, so by giving her the rock, he's giving her a piece of her home to carry with her.  It's not so much cold as deadpan.

No, I understand. I just wish he could have said something at least. Too deadpan. Given the rest of his cold interaction with her, it seemed to fit the pattern. To me, at least. I appreciate the thought behind it.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

DTKT wrote...

It's pretty obvious that the Liara romance arc had the most attention. I guess the rest all suffered in quality.

Eh, Liara being forced down your throat regardless of whether you romanced her or not doesn't really equal quality. Most of her content was not unique to people who romanced her. The dialogue in general suffered in quality.

[antares_sublight]

Miphious wrote...

Seriously? You want to complain about how undeveloped the Tali romance is? It's one of the more developed romances in the game.

I'd much rather they bulk up Jack, Thane and Jacob romances than add even more to an already well-developed romance.

I also agree that the rest needed even more as well. That doesn't diminish the complaint, though. 

[FatalX7.0]

I don't see any of that as cold, especially not as cold as you think it is, OP.

[Cheesy Blue]

Faded-Myth wrote...

Tali: "Shepard. I give to you land from my planet to start a family, my support throughout the hardships you will face, and my undying love."
Shepard: "I give you..."
(Shepard looks around, picks up a rock.)
Shepard: "...this rock. Which I found on the land you gave me."
Tali: "But...it's not even a rock."
Shepard: "It's made of air. It's an air rock. It's rare."

Hey the pioneers used rocks! Don't hate on rocks!

[antares_sublight]

Faded-Myth wrote...

Tali: "Shepard. I give to you land from my planet to start a family, my support throughout the hardships you will face, and my undying love."
Shepard: "I give you..."
(Shepard looks around, picks up a rock.)
Shepard: "...this rock. Which I found on the land you gave me."
Tali: "But...it's not even a rock."
Shepard: "It's made of air. It's an air rock. It's rare."

LOL. 

Shepard: "I give you..."
(Shepard looks around, then breaks out the air guitar and goes to town like Pete Townshend)
Tali: "What are you doing?"
Shepard: "Giving you air rock"

[dreman9999]

....What? But it's one of the best romances!!!

Modifié par dreman9999, 06 mai 2012 - 05:34 .

[Miphious]

antares_sublight wrote...

Miphious wrote...

Seriously? You want to complain about how undeveloped the Tali romance is? It's one of the more developed romances in the game.

I'd much rather they bulk up Jack, Thane and Jacob romances than add even more to an already well-developed romance.

I also agree that the rest needed even more as well. That doesn't diminish the complaint, though. 

Problem is what you dislike someone else may like. The fact that Shep never says love to Tali may be someone else's preference. Why should yours override theirs? 

And watching my boyfriend do a playthrough with a Tali romance, I saw nothing cold about it. So what if he didn't say love? That's not necessary to have a warm relationship. 

There was tons of teasing and flirtation involved in the Tali romance that no one else got so that makes up for not having a date, I think. 

Modifié par Miphious, 06 mai 2012 - 05:36 .

[antares_sublight]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

I don't see any of that as cold, especially not as cold as you think it is, OP.

Yeah, it's just my opinion of course. Shep responding to something sweet with "Thanks" or "I know" and refusing to say something nice in return was cold to me.

[Hihoshi101]

Tali doesn't even get a date... but yeah it is cold