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[The Not So Illusive Man]

Well, I'm feeling hopeful for this! Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
Some people really have taken the poor quality of the ending too much to heart, they make it sound like Bioware was deliberately trying to hurt people, hopefully this will at least calm the whiners.

[stjabr]

I love the whole "is this art" discussion, mostly because it's ultimately irrelevant: In my opinion, ME is as much art as any book or play is. In some ways even more so due to the way it conveys branching stories unlike books or plays do, while also having to display this story visually. It's something more like "dynamic art".

However, I can't work out why people are arguing - regardless of whether it's art or not makes absolutely no difference to the ending not making any sense, or sticking to the stories they've been telling. What frustrates me is using this "artistic vision" as some sort of shield against backlash and criticism. 99% of the game is both artistic and consistent. The ending MAY be artistic, but it is definitely not consistent, the point is - it can and should be both.

On topic - here's hoping the fact they've pulled people back in to do lines means something big coming. I'm guessing bringing them back in for a few lines each would be hideously expensive and inefficient - if they're doing it they may as well make the most of the opportunity.

Modifié par stjabr, 06 mai 2012 - 11:49 .

[RobinEJ]

kookie28 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/status/199036860981444608

I'm expecting most of the cast to return.  Including ME2 characters.

Is that link somehow related to your comment? I don't see the connection.

I took that tweet as him saying, "Just because all of the actors aren't tweeting that they're doing more VA recording, doesn't mean they aren't doing it."  Or something.

Just more speculations.

Screen of this tweet:
http://img710.images...torsrnotwee.jpg

Modifié par RobinEJ, 06 mai 2012 - 11:54 .

[ScotGaymer]

stjabr wrote...

However, I can't work out why people are arguing - regardless of whether it's art or not makes absolutely no difference to the ending not making any sense

I do not believe that Video Games or Mass Effect count as art. That is my personal opinion, that when you commerically mass market something that it stops being "art" and becomes a product.

Just my opinion here. But I do completely agree that wether you think games are art or not the whole arguement is irrelevant to the issue at hand, that the ending sucks and doesn't make sense.

The whole artistic integrity defence is baseless and stupid. It was something Bioware latched onto as an excuse for their crappy ending when pro-ending "journalists" were deriding the movement to get the ending changed, citing "art" means that the ending shouldnt be changed and we just dont understand and should deal with it.

[Darth Math 88]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...
Screw art? Is this what real Mass Effect fans say? Because if so I don't want to be a real Mass Effect fan. 

> Implying that if anything is defined as art, it is automatically incredibly amazing and cannot under any circumstances be questioned.

No, I'm implying the truth. It matters not what the general public thinks is art. If an artist has a vision that he/she wants to bring to life, it is not up to the public to not call it art. I may not like the Mona Lisa. But, that does not give me the right to call it "not art." You probably don't think of professional wrestling as art. Or soap opera. But, there are many that do. Your subjective opinion is not the only one in existence and does not have objective truth to proclaim itself as higher than anything an artist chooses to define as art. 

In short: don't try to tell someone with the useless degree in the fine arts what art is; he tried it once and got chewed out by a pretty well known modern painter who embarrassed him infront of his colleagues. This was after he called a piece not art because it didn't fit HIS subjective opinion about what sort of painting should and shouldn't be considered art.

Frankly, it's not up to you and you're an arrogant fool if you think it is. Believe me, you don't wanna be that guy either. It's a ****ing drag.

As someone else going to school to earn a "useless" (if that's what you consider it to be, perhaps you should go back to school for business or something) BFA, I feel compelled to say that while art can take many forms, there is still the reality of good and bad art. Or to put it another way: art done right and art done wrong.

For example; storytelling is an art. But when a story concludes with an ending that completely contradicts and negates the story's themes that have already been established leading up to that point, then you're doing the art of storytelling wrong.

[EnvyTB075]

FitScotGaymer wrote...
I do not believe that Video Games or Mass Effect count as art. That is my personal opinion, that when you commerically mass market something that it stops being "art" and becomes a product.

Just my opinion here. But I do completely agree that wether you think games are art or not the whole arguement is irrelevant to the issue at hand, that the ending sucks and doesn't make sense.

The whole artistic integrity defence is baseless and stupid. It was something Bioware latched onto as an excuse for their crappy ending when pro-ending "journalists" were deriding the movement to get the ending changed, citing "art" means that the ending shouldnt be changed and we just dont understand and should deal with it.

This.

Wasn't my intention to start this "argument", there are plenty of other places to take it.

[CroGamer002]

:-D

[Napier93]

DazenCobalt17 wrote...

*insert cautious optimism here*

I share that sentiment

[Darth Math 88]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...
*snip 

*snip

*snip*

>Complains about an opinion, uses an opinion to prove an opinion wrong.

And then its the art argument. Again. Excuse me while I alleviate my pain by shooting out my left ball, but of course its the only way you can excuse anything remotely bad these days, and get away with it.

By that logic, if Jerry Sandusky called his pedophilic acts "art", then he should have gotten away with it.....

Modifié par Darth Math 88, 06 mai 2012 - 12:05 .

[Optimus J]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

tvman099 wrote...
It doesn't need to be good or sensible

For some people, maybe authors included - it doesn't. For me, and I am pretty sure majority of people who pay the authors,- it does.  I am not denying them right to do whatever they want, but it kind of "right to shoot themselves in the foot", nobody will benefit from it in the end.

And they keep shooting themselves in both feet, and hands, legs, wherever they can.

For anyone with a functional brain this end is so hated that no sequence coming from it will hold itself. The sequel is set to fail.

They're wasting a chance to make their future less bleak. Not only as a company but as professionals.
Come on, which one of you would hire Hudson, Gamble, Walters or Priestly, if they ever have to leave EA? Knowing about this dark past of them?  I wouldn't risk my company with such names.

[Bob3terd]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...
Screw art? Is this what real Mass Effect fans say? Because if so I don't want to be a real Mass Effect fan. 

> Implying that if anything is defined as art, it is automatically incredibly amazing and cannot under any circumstances be questioned.

No, I'm implying the truth. It matters not what the general public thinks is art. If an artist has a vision that he/she wants to bring to life, it is not up to the public to not call it art. I may not like the Mona Lisa. But, that does not give me the right to call it "not art." You probably don't think of professional wrestling as art. Or soap opera. But, there are many that do. Your subjective opinion is not the only one in existence and does not have objective truth to proclaim itself as higher than anything an artist chooses to define as art. 

In short: don't try to tell someone with the useless degree in the fine arts what art is; he tried it once and got chewed out by a pretty well known modern painter who embarrassed him infront of his colleagues. This was after he called a piece not art because it didn't fit HIS subjective opinion about what sort of painting should and shouldn't be considered art.

Frankly, it's not up to you and you're an arrogant fool if you think it is. Believe me, you don't wanna be that guy either. It's a ****ing drag.

Your argument contradicts itself if art is subjective we have every right to call somthing "not art" as some one does "art".
to rephrase somthing you said "A game developers subjective opinion is not the only one in existence and does not
have objective truth to proclaim itself as higher than anything we choose to define as art, it is equal. "

Your opinion is as subjective as those you are arguing with, yet you claim your opinion  as truth. You also claim a contrary opinion to your own is invalid, and they you have the gall to call others arrogant?

[RobinEJ]

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

Lots of clarification. Because it will be hard to clarify, you know...

Great comment!

[stysiaq]

*meme Image removed per Site Rule #6*

Seriously, how am I supposed to be excited about something that elementary?

EC is to provide "even more clarity and closure" (more than absolute zero is called "any", btw) and our squaddies didn't get it. So of course they are doing VO work.

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 06 mai 2012 - 02:05 .

[CroGamer002]

^Name me one ME DLC that had squadmate VA's being invited to do their work there.

[Paragon_Interrupt]

Joker: "Shepard got through. Picking up anyone I can find in the rubble. Let's get out of here."

(Stranded) Tali: "Thank god the Normandy has food supplies while we wait for rescue!"

(Stranded) Garrus: "Thank god the Normandy has food supplies while we wait for rescue!"

Hackett (after battle): "Mass relays were destroyed. We can rebuild them. We have the technology."

Stargazer: "And everyone lived happily ever after. No really, it was fine."

[MayaBalrin]

DazenCobalt17 wrote...

*insert cautious optimism here*

^ This

[Yaos]

My heart started beating twice its normal rate.

[RoamerZA]

Optimus J wrote...

You know, with the huge budget problem they are probably going through now I would love to see M-Fckers Agents trying to milk a high pay from them to have the Voice Actors.

I am completely confident that the VAs would have been tied into some kind of retainer for a year or so with the DLC in mind. 

[crimzontearz]

Casey: So Raphael your line is "good god Garrus that looks like a bone....I thought you could not eat the food here" his response will be an intensity level 2 "Quarian flesh is delicious...now where are my dextro lentils and the chianti?"

no seriously...no optimism until I freaking see player review

[Shaoken]

JediHealerCosmin wrote...

Please make something believable now. Your BioWare logic confuses the crap out of me.
Falling from orbit and surviving due to an EMS score? Seriously?

It all happened off camera, but Anderson totally survived and grabed you when you fell. He then carried you as you both fell to Earth, and before hitting the ground he told gravity off, and gravity knew better than to **** with Anderson and gently put both Anderson and Shepard on the ground. Then Anderson just dropped Shepard and went off to find a pub.

[Vez04]

Pleasant news that is, but i will still wait until ive seen it on youtube.

One thing is recording dialog, another thing is actually make ''clarification'' scenes make sense to everyone.

[res27772]

I'd like to know whether these "extended cuts" are scenes that are scattered throughout the game to explain things as you go, or whether it's all going to be lumped together at the end to explain what's happened and the consequences of your decisions etc.

[Village_Idiot]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Name me one ME DLC that had squadmate VA's being invited to do their work there.

This is the reason I think they're actually taking this seriously. Colour me optimistic.

[LMShepard]

Abreu Road wrote...

Jennifer Hale and Mark Meer included?

Hopefully.  It would confirm IT theory.  But EC will probably not include Shepard...alive at least.  

[Dominus]

Thanks for the update, then.

As far as the debate on "are games art?". anything can be art. Most of it isn't, but practically any medium has the potential for artistic value. However, as long as money's involved, that artistic value will always be under great scrutiny. Shakespeare was totally pandering to his audience. It's a debate that seemingly goes nowhere(and likely will for countless more pages as well). So... there you go.