206 réponses à ce sujet

[Annie_Dear]

Ulfric wanted me to attack Whiterun. I had a house there. So I joined the Imperials and killed him instead.

I also killed the Emperor

[Aeowyn]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

The Empire is too weak to fight against the Dominion together. Instead of stretching the few resources they have left across the Empire they should disband the Empire. Add to that the fact that the Empire's "peace treaty" gave the south of Hammerfell away to the Thalmor and banned the worship of Talos... well, do you really expect that the proud Nords and the Redguards (who fought long and hard to get their well-earned land) to just stand aside? An alliance of independent nations would work better to fight against the Thalmor than a unified Empire as it stands now.

Assumming said alliance could work together. Different nations don't usually get along so how exactly do you imagine this army of an alliance, if an alliance was even forged in the first place, would work? You wouldn't have one army under a clear leadership following their orders, as you already do and instead you have multiple armies under different leaders that wouldn't necesarily get along trying to work together. Military wise it's the former that gives you a much higher chance of success, not the latter and if the Empire breaks into smaller nations held togheter by an alliance I would place my money on that Thalmor winning because of an organized military.


Also as people pointed out the Redguards devasted their own homeland to stop the Dominion advance, they did not beat them completely.

Oh sure, Skyrim's resources are being used by the Empire, but do you really think a civil war is the best thing in the world right now? Ulfric's mentality is: The Empire is weak so let's leave it, but others are like: No. So instead because half the nation would rather stay in the Empire then leave it and they are slaughtering each other as a result. Yeah that certainly is the way to go.

Civil Wars are started generally because of both sides, not just one or the other. Also why should give a damn just for Skyrim? Assuming I would even see leaving the Empire and waging a bloody civil war as a good for thing for it, which I don't since after every rebelion like that there is always a long period of chaos. For years the nords will have it worse then they did before the war. Thanks to Ulfric.

Ulfric wants Skyrim to leave the Empire because it's weak, and because the Emperor allowed the ban of worshipping Talos. They also allowed the Thalmor to roam the land of Skyrim kidnapping and torturing people because they worship said God. Add to that the fact that certain Jarls were bribed to sign this treaty, and also the fact that Jarl Balgruuf worships Talos in the safety of his own home while the men and women in his hold are being captured by the Thalmor for doing the same. Yeah. Ulfric's rebellion is more than just "The Empire sux lol". 

I also believe the Nords will have it better not worse for leaving the Empire. They gain nothing for being in a weak Empire and frankly the Empire needs Skyrim more than the other way around. The Septim Empire was strong, the Mede Empire isn't. It is known.

[DarkDragon777]

Aeowyn wrote...

There's more to it than "The Empire sux lol". 

Not really. Ulfric is just mad that he doesn't get to worship his fake god Talos and have free reign over more than just the cesspool Windhelm that he was running.

Aeowyn wrote...

I also believe the Nords will have it better not worse for leaving the Empire. They gain nothing for being in a weak Empire and frankly the Empire needs Skyrim more than the other way around. The Septim Empire was strong, the Mede Empire isn't. It is known.

They'll have it better? By being governed by batsh*t crazy fat Nords who can't see anything outside their bear-skin pelt in weak, independent provinces and having that short-sighted fool Ulfric on the throne that has the army the size of a pin. Being isolated from foreign trade with the Khajiit, Imperials, Bretons, etc. Having strict laws that forbid magic. Having a thug militia protect you instead of having assistance from the Kings of High Rock and The Emperor. Being forced to worship the fake god Talos that wouldn't even have a meaningful following without the Empire. Ulfric making it so it looks like he left the key under the doormat for the Thalmor to come into Skyrim.

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...THAT SOUNDS GOOOOOD


t0.gstatic.com/images

Worked well for the Redguard.

Modifié par DarkDragon777, 06 mai 2012 - 04:51 .

[Sigma Tauri]

There's nothing fake about Talos.

[TobiTobsen]

monkeycamoran wrote...

There's nothing fake about Talos.

Even I, as an Imperial supporter, have to back that up. What exactly is fake about Talos? He seems to be the only god, besides the Daedra, who's actually doing something.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 06 mai 2012 - 04:55 .

[DarkDragon777]

TobiTobsen wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

There's nothing fake about Talos.

Even I, as an Imperial supporter, have to back that up. What exactly is fake about Talos? He seems to be the only god, besides the Daedra, who's actually doing something.

.....Not sure if serious.....

[termokanden]

Annie_Dear wrote...

Ulfric wanted me to attack Whiterun. I had a house there. So I joined the Imperials and killed him instead.

I also killed the Emperor

You still get to keep your house.

But kudos for kiling both of those idiots.

[Sigma Tauri]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

.....Not sure if serious.....

No, really. There isn't. The Thalmor's reasons for the ban have always been suspect.

[congealeddgtllvr]

Aeowyn wrote...
Ulfric wants Skyrim to leave the Empire because it's weak, and because the Emperor allowed the ban of worshipping Talos. They also allowed the Thalmor to roam the land of Skyrim kidnapping and torturing people because they worship said God. Add to that the fact that certain Jarls were bribed to sign this treaty, and also the fact that Jarl Balgruuf worships Talos in the safety of his own home while the men and women in his hold are being captured by the Thalmor for doing the same. Yeah. Ulfric's rebellion is more than just "The Empire sux lol". 

Why would the Empire keep Talos worship banned after the next war with the Thalmor starts?  It's not like they actually support it.  Hadvar's uncle says that back in the day everybody still had their little shrine to Talos and nobody cared.  It was only when Ulfric the Turd started agitating that the Thalmor took notice.  

Something I find really ironic is how all the people who go on about Talos don't care that they are pissing all over the real life Talos' legacy with their little rebellion.  His life's work was building and uniting his empire, and now his "faithful" want to throw it all away because they got one weak ruler.  

Tiber Septim's empire wasn't even the first based out of Cyrodil and the Imperial City.  The first was St. Alessia's, then later Reman Cyrodil.  The periods of interregnum between the three are always described as bad times and I'm not really sure why people are so eager to return to them.  

[Bad King]

After completing the civil war for both sides, I have to say Imperials. The majority of their Jarls are just fairer and more rational than the Stormcloak Jarls. I also fear that helping the Stormcloaks would just lead to further fighting over Skyrim between Cyrodiil and the Stormcloaks which would further the Thalmor's cause.

[DarkDragon777]

monkeycamoran wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

.....Not sure if serious.....

No, really. There isn't. The Thalmor's reasons for the ban have always been suspect.

You know, just that TIBER SEPTIM was a man, not a god.

[Costin_Razvan]

I also believe the Nords will have it better not worse for leaving the Empire. They gain nothing for being in a weak Empire and frankly the Empire needs Skyrim more than the other way around. The Septim Empire was strong, the Mede Empire isn't. It is known.

Every civil war, every rebellion even when they were pulled off successfully made life worse for everyone in the nation for years to come.

That is a fact ( which I know very well considering what happened in Eastern Europe in general after Comunism fell. For years it was chaos and life was really bad ) and how is Ulfric going to make Skyrim stronger? By not allowing the resources of the nation to be used by the Empire? Well what about trade, do you think Ulfric will be able to pull of trade relations with the Empire even if he wants to? If trade stops with the Empire, and it would in the event of a stormcloak victory, then the economy of Skyrim goes down the dump.

Also while the worship of Talos was official banned, Hadvar's uncle if you help him points out that no one was really doing anything about the Talos worship until Ulfric started his war, then they clamped down on it. The Thalmor wanted the Civil War, hell they made sure Ulfric would start it.

There are cases of  civil wars, rebelions, revolutions turning out well in the end because of a leader or leaders who ware politically briliant and visionary. Ulfric's neither. He is very conversative and tradionalist.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 mai 2012 - 05:19 .

[Sigma Tauri]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

You know, just that TIBER SEPTIM was a man, not a god.

Apotheosis is easy in Tamriel.

He mantled the Missing God.

And the first Dominion was defeated using the Numidium.

The Thalmor know who Tiber Septim is. Saying he's not a god because he was a man from a group of people who make claims on their own divinity.

[DarkDragon777]

monkeycamoran wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

You know, just that TIBER SEPTIM was a man, not a god.

Apotheosis is easy in Tamriel.

He mantled the Missing God.

And the first Dominion was defeated using the Numidium.

The Thalmor know who Tiber Septim is. Saying he's not a god because he was a man from a group of people who make claims on their own divinity.

You just explained exactly why Tiber Septim isn't divine.

[Sigma Tauri]

If apotheosis makes you a god, you are a god. Definition of apotheosis.

Elves make claims of their own divinity. They don't get a right who is or isn't a god, especially since not every one especially the Nords believe in that.

[DarkDragon777]

monkeycamoran wrote...

If apotheosis makes you a god, you are a god. Definition of apotheosis.

Nope. It doesn't. A massive amount of groupthink that claims to elevate one to divine status doesn't actually change the very fabric of a mortal into that of a god. People just pretend it does. Saying someone is a god doesn't give them god-like abilities or immortality. Thus, they aren't actually a god.

[RedArmyShogun]

lol the problem is if you Metagame then you know Talos is a God, unless you didn't play morrowind.

Personally I think many in the Empire still worship talos but quitly. And when they get a chance to fight back will most likely build a HUGE statue to Talos in the Isles just to go "lulz" to the Thalmor.

In anycase though, on the whole "self determination" Multinational fight, ughh if you look at history the times these people or groups DO win, they often had strife between each other and alot of luck. Then given each has its own agenda and the only way to win a war is to take the offense to the enmies home or make his stay too bloody to endure, it always breaks down into another conflict between the former allied powers.

[Hyperglide]

I did both. It's called multiple playthroughs. You should try it sometime.

[Sigma Tauri]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Nope. It doesn't. A massive amount of groupthink that claims to elevate one to divine status doesn't actually change the very fabric of a mortal into that of a god. People just pretend it does. Saying someone is a god doesn't give them god-like abilities or immortality. Thus, they aren't actually a god.

Actually group-think does, especially within the protean mythic structure of Tamrielic divinities. Have you ever read Varieties of Faith in the Empire? The roster of divinities within a particular pantheon differ by race. The High Elves would never worship Shor as a god, but he's worshipped in Skyrim and Cyrodiil as Shezarr/Talos. The Dark Elves left Summurset Isle in order to worship the daedra but look down on the Aedric spirits of both Imperials and the Altmer.

Even then, Talos didn't just retrieve is divinity through group-think. So, you're wrong on that. He mantled the Missing God, Shezarr, in an act that mimicked him so closely that he becomes him. But, that added to the fact, that the Dovahkiins are special souls that have strong associations with Lorkhan, and being that kid from Alclaire was special enough to resist the shouts of the Greybeards...yeah.

[Addai]

Titus Mede can kiss my pasty Nord rear. ALL HAIL KING ULFRIC

There is no strategic advantage staying in an "empire" (if you can call it that any longer) that has corrupt, crippled leadership. Cyrodiil is just scrambling to save itself and using its former provinces as bargaining chips to buy off the Thalmor for a little more time. Red Ring and Hammerfell show that when you stand ground, the Thalmor lose. The appeasement game the empire is trying to play has been disastrous and though some of the legionaries can see this, the emperor obviously can't. Humanity has a better chance with an alliance of independent Hammerfell, High Rock, Skyrim and hopefully Morrowind (what's left of it). If Cyrodiil gets its act together and renounces claims on Skyrim, they could ally together as well, as free nations. Meanwhile the Nords will have been able to prepare for war without the serious disadvantage and morale hit of having your leadership collude with the enemy and spying on your every move.

edit- Nobody who knows TES lore would argue that Talos is not divine.  That's a non-starter.

Modifié par Addai67, 06 mai 2012 - 05:52 .

[Bad King]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

lol the problem is if you Metagame then you know Talos is a God, unless you didn't play morrowind.

Personally I think many in the Empire still worship talos but quitly. And when they get a chance to fight back will most likely build a HUGE statue to Talos in the Isles just to go "lulz" to the Thalmor.

In anycase though, on the whole "self determination" Multinational fight, ughh if you look at history the times these people or groups DO win, they often had strife between each other and alot of luck. Then given each has its own agenda and the only way to win a war is to take the offense to the enmies home or make his stay too bloody to endure, it always breaks down into another conflict between the former allied powers.

Urgh, I was never a fan of those Imperial Cult missions where you just bump into the divines practically on the street.

But even if we disregard Morrowind, the fact that in Oblivion, Tiber Seprim's armour allowed Martin to open a portal to Camoran's paradise implies that he did become an aedra (there's also that blessing that you are given in KotN).

The Thalmor leadership probably know this and are outlawing Talos worship in other provinces in order to cause trouble and drive wedges between different factions within the empire.

Modifié par Bad King, 06 mai 2012 - 06:01 .

[DarkDragon777]

monkeycamoran wrote...



Actually group-think does, especially within the protean mythic structure of Tamrielic divinities. Have you ever read Varieties of Faith in the Empire? The roster of divinities within a particular pantheon differ by race. The High Elves would never worship Shor as a god, but he's worshipped in Skyrim and Cyrodiil as Shezarr/Talos. The Dark Elves left Summurset Isle in order to worship the daedra but look down on the Aedric spirits of both Imperials and the Altmer.

Even then, Talos didn't just retrieve is divinity through group-think. So, you're wrong on that. He mantled the Missing God, Shezarr, in an act that mimicked him so closely that he becomes him. But, that added to the fact, that the Dovahkiins are special souls that have strong associations with Lorkhan, and being that kid from Alclaire was special enough to resist the shouts of the Greybeards...yeah.

Nope. Actually, Shor is real. Talos isn't. People need to stop acting like the Imperial pantheon and the Nordic Pantheon are made odf the same gods with different names, because they aren't. Nordic gods like Shor and Alduin are different from Akatosh and Talos.

[Sigma Tauri]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...



Actually group-think does, especially within the protean mythic structure of Tamrielic divinities. Have you ever read Varieties of Faith in the Empire? The roster of divinities within a particular pantheon differ by race. The High Elves would never worship Shor as a god, but he's worshipped in Skyrim and Cyrodiil as Shezarr/Talos. The Dark Elves left Summurset Isle in order to worship the daedra but look down on the Aedric spirits of both Imperials and the Altmer.

Even then, Talos didn't just retrieve is divinity through group-think. So, you're wrong on that. He mantled the Missing God, Shezarr, in an act that mimicked him so closely that he becomes him. But, that added to the fact, that the Dovahkiins are special souls that have strong associations with Lorkhan, and being that kid from Alclaire was special enough to resist the shouts of the Greybeards...yeah.

Nope. Actually, Shor is real. Talos isn't. People need to stop acting like the Imperial pantheon and the Nordic Pantheon are made odf the same gods with different names, because they aren't. Nordic gods like Shor and Alduin are different from Akatosh and Talos.

So, you don't think Jhunal isn't Julianos, Kyne isn't Kynareth, Dibella isn't Dibella, Mara isn't Mara and Stuhn isn't Stendarr?

Even then, that isn't my point. There is no consensus of what is considered a god. Kyne isn't worshipped to the Altmer and Dunmer.

And then, just group-think didn't make Talos is a god.

Again, no.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 06 mai 2012 - 06:05 .

[DarkDragon777]

monkeycamoran wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...



Actually group-think does, especially within the protean mythic structure of Tamrielic divinities. Have you ever read Varieties of Faith in the Empire? The roster of divinities within a particular pantheon differ by race. The High Elves would never worship Shor as a god, but he's worshipped in Skyrim and Cyrodiil as Shezarr/Talos. The Dark Elves left Summurset Isle in order to worship the daedra but look down on the Aedric spirits of both Imperials and the Altmer.

Even then, Talos didn't just retrieve is divinity through group-think. So, you're wrong on that. He mantled the Missing God, Shezarr, in an act that mimicked him so closely that he becomes him. But, that added to the fact, that the Dovahkiins are special souls that have strong associations with Lorkhan, and being that kid from Alclaire was special enough to resist the shouts of the Greybeards...yeah.

Nope. Actually, Shor is real. Talos isn't. People need to stop acting like the Imperial pantheon and the Nordic Pantheon are made odf the same gods with different names, because they aren't. Nordic gods like Shor and Alduin are different from Akatosh and Talos.

So, you don't think Jhunal isn't Julianos, Kyne isn't Kynareth, Dibella isn't Dibella, Mara isn't Mara and Stuhn isn't Stendarr?

Notice how I only used Alduin and Shor as examples.

[Sigma Tauri]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Notice how I only used Alduin and Shor as examples.

Of course, I noticed. So, you can prove your point, except that gods do exist in both with different names. So, that makes your point moot.