59 réponses à ce sujet

[Isichar]

Seemed like one of the key themes behind renegade is human dominance over the species working together. So wouldnt a renegade Shepard want to use the reapers to further that or whatever goal (s)he has?

Im a bit biased since I dont really care for any ending and if I was forced to choose Id go destroy just about every time but did anyone else find it odd that control is painted as the paragon option? Sure the reapers could be used to help rebuild and keep peace ect. ect. but they could also be used and controlled (assuming they can be controlled, i doubt the Catalysts logic personally) to subjugate the rest of the galaxy.

[Bad King]

Control is the renegade option- if your war assets are too low and you saved the base in ME2, you automatically pick it. The colour means nothing. They probably made destroy red simply because it resembled a destructive explosion more (like the Collector Base in ME2).

Modifié par Bad King, 06 mai 2012 - 06:14 .

[The Angry One]

There really is no paragon/renegade choice because Shepard makes no choice.

You could literally replace Shepard with ANYONE in the Catalyst scene and it would play out in the same way. There is no self-determination here and nothing that reflect's Shepard's personality or alignment.

[babachewie]

I don't really think of the last choices as either paragon or renegade. Even I f did Paragons normally wouldn't choose a choice that would wipe out and entire species. Just like the Rachni Choice.

[AxisEvolve]

It is the "Renegade" option. Why do people need things spelled out for them in this way? Not every moral decision needs to be represented as the same color. We're all adults here, we should be able to figure out what is "right and wrong" by ourselves. Unfortunately, all of the choices are "bad", but some worse than others.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 06 mai 2012 - 06:19 .

[lillitheris]

AxisEvolve wrote...

It is the "Renegade" option. Why do people need things spelled out for them in this way? Not every moral decision needs to be represented as the same color. We're all adults here, we should be able to figure out what is "right and wrong" by ourselves. Unfortunately, all of the choices are "bad", but some worse than others.

Didn’t read because your avatar has red eyes and I’m a paragon.

[The Angry One]

AxisEvolve wrote...

It is the "Renegade" option. Why do people need things spelled out for them in this way? Not every moral decision needs to be represented as the same color. We're all adults here, we should be able to figure out what is "right and wrong" by ourselves. Unfortunately, all of the choices are "bad", but some worse than others.

While it's not necesarry for morality to be colour coded, changing this violates the artistic theme from the first games, where the paragon and renegade choices had an epilogue scene in their respective colours - Shepard standing in front of a blue or red background in ME1 or the colour of the star in the final TIM scene in ME2.

[Isichar]

AxisEvolve wrote...

It is the "Renegade" option. Why do people need things spelled out for them in this way? Not every moral decision needs to be represented as the same color. We're all adults here, we should be able to figure out what is "right and wrong" by ourselves. Unfortunately, all of the choices are "bad", but some worse than others.

They have used red to represent renegade and blue to represent paragon from the start of the series. Cant blame me for questioning the switch here. Pretty sure both the ending writers feel this is a better option then destroy too.

[Kanaris]

AxisEvolve wrote...

It is the "Renegade" option. Why do people need things spelled out for them in this way? Not every moral decision needs to be represented as the same color. We're all adults here, we should be able to figure out what is "right and wrong" by ourselves. Unfortunately, all of the choices are "bad", but some worse than others.

Destroy fits renegade best you kill ALL synthetic life that includes the Geth, EDI, and anyone who uses synthetic implants to keep them alive like Shepard on top of destroying all the mass relays, Control gives you control over the reapers to do with them as you see fit as well as not sacrificing your friends plus the mass relays are only damaged not destroyed.

But I agree with angry in the long run your choice really doesn't matter they amount to the same thing in the end..

[The Angry One]

Kanaris wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

It is the "Renegade" option. Why do people need things spelled out for them in this way? Not every moral decision needs to be represented as the same color. We're all adults here, we should be able to figure out what is "right and wrong" by ourselves. Unfortunately, all of the choices are "bad", but some worse than others.

Destroy fits renegade best you kill ALL synthetic life that includes the Geth, EDI, and anyone who uses synthetic implants to keep them alive like Shepard on top of destroying all the mass relays, Control gives you control over the reapers to do with them as you see fit as well as not sacrificing your friends plus the mass relays are only damaged not destroyed.

But I agree with angry in the long run your choice really doesn't matter they amount to the same thing in the end..

What we can or can't do with the Reapers in control is speculation.
But then, that is what they wanted. Lots of speculation from everyone.

[Kanaris]

The Angry One wrote...

Kanaris wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

It is the "Renegade" option. Why do people need things spelled out for them in this way? Not every moral decision needs to be represented as the same color. We're all adults here, we should be able to figure out what is "right and wrong" by ourselves. Unfortunately, all of the choices are "bad", but some worse than others.

Destroy fits renegade best you kill ALL synthetic life that includes the Geth, EDI, and anyone who uses synthetic implants to keep them alive like Shepard on top of destroying all the mass relays, Control gives you control over the reapers to do with them as you see fit as well as not sacrificing your friends plus the mass relays are only damaged not destroyed.

But I agree with angry in the long run your choice really doesn't matter they amount to the same thing in the end..

What we can or can't do with the Reapers in control is speculation.
But then, that is what they wanted. Lots of speculation from everyone.

to bad all they managed to give me was a Migrain <_<

[shodiswe]

I don't think the colors had anything to do with paragon or renegade....

The destroy option does destroy a lot of geth and EDI if the catalyst is to be belives... then again... the catalyst is a reaper... is it trustworthy?

The control option leaves everyone safe... for now...

The synthesis thing does "something" to every living thing,,, organic and synthetic... and the reapers did seem to like this idea... the same people who liked the idea of murderign trillions.. over and over and over... for millions of years...

I just can't understand the ending or the conversation between shepard and the catalyst... it just doesn't add up..

[AxisEvolve]

The Angry One wrote...
While it's not necesarry for morality to be colour coded, changing this violates the artistic theme from the first games, where the paragon and renegade choices had an epilogue scene in their respective colours - Shepard standing in front of a blue or red background in ME1 or the colour of the star in the final TIM scene in ME2.

True enough. While I can't explain why they flipped this at the end, I can make the unguided decision on what is (seemingly) in character for my Shepard. As can anyone else for that matter.. It just bothers me when people ignore the characteristics of a moral decision just because it's "Red and Blue". In reality, the Control and Destroy options are not black and white, but a grey. A very, very dark grey. 

However, I can make a good guess on why they flipped the colors. It beings with an S, ends with a peculation. 

Kanaris wrote...
Destroy fits renegade best you kill ALL synthetic life that includes the Geth, EDI, and anyone who uses synthetic implants to keep them alive like Shepard on top of destroying all the mass relays, Control gives you control over the reapers to do with them as you see fit as well as not sacrificing your friends plus the mass relays are only damaged not destroyed.

But I agree with angry in the long run your choice really doesn't matter they amount to the same thing in the end..

 
Yes, I know. Let me explain my original point here. I was responding to the concept of "Destroy the Reapers" and "Control the Reapers", without getting into the specifics of what happens once you do it. If you could destroy the Reapers without killing the synthetics, then in theory that would be the perfect Paragon ending (ignoring all of the Catalyst BS).

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 06 mai 2012 - 06:33 .

[Obeded the 2nd]

I think the reason it isn't is because in destroy you are making organics choose there own way for the future.
This means that as star kid said your children will create synthetics and organics will be wiped out.
If you choose control you are putting in a safeguard that the synthetics won't be able to kill all organics because the reapers are around and will be able to stop the destruction of all organics because shep controls them now.
Remeber paragon has always been about long-term.
Why save the council when you will lose ships that could help kill soverign? Because you will be helping human-alien relations for when it's over.

[Kanaris]

Yeah if you could do it without the other sacrifices that would be the paragon hands down I agree

[Obeded the 2nd]

Sorry double post

Modifié par Obeded the 2nd, 06 mai 2012 - 06:35 .

[2484Stryker]

Shepard made a choice - from the choices that the star brat gave him. That's not really making his own choice at all.

[KingZayd]

I don't think it's a moral decision at all.

Do you trust the starchild? If not, pick destroy.
If so, do you accept it's reasoning? If not, pick control.
If so, pick Synthesis.

[2484Stryker]

KingZayd wrote...

I don't think it's a moral decision at all.

Do you trust the starchild? If not, pick destroy.
If so, do you accept it's reasoning? If not, pick control.
If so, pick Synthesis.

Actually, if you don't trust the starchild, then you can't pick anything at all, since even the apparent "destroy" option may be a lie.  For all you know, the "destroy" option actually destroys all organic life instead.

Modifié par 2484Stryker, 06 mai 2012 - 06:39 .

[Kanaris]

Problem is the star brats reasoning is flawed/negated depending on how you play the game.

I united the Geth and Quarians in my playthroughs Organic and Synthetic life working together and then you have EDI who is an AI with a body who is in love with an Organic.

The star brats argument just went up in smoke. 

Modifié par Kanaris, 06 mai 2012 - 06:40 .

[Saint Op]

No I think the options are right...
destroy is renagade...sacrifice,ends justify the means,snap judgement,untrusting,possible to put us at risk in the future...

controls does not make us TIM...shep is in control ,nobody is sacrificed,and we can save ourself later...

the geth are not a good ,hey we made peace sign...could it last? Like Shep said "maybe"...but they were okay for like a week tops so far..plus the geth are now smarter and can learn faster...will they all turn maybe maybe not but the fact that they are individuals means both sides will likely have splinter groups looking to cause trouble..

[AlexXIV]

2484Stryker wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I don't think it's a moral decision at all.

Do you trust the starchild? If not, pick destroy.
If so, do you accept it's reasoning? If not, pick control.
If so, pick Synthesis.

Actually, if you don't trust the starchild, then you can't pick anything at all, since even the apparent "destroy" option may be a lie.  For all you know, the "destroy" option actually destroys all organic life instead.

Well what do you do if you don't trust the starchild then? Don't pick any choice and wait until the end of the world? Thing is in the game you have to pick a choice. Destroy is the one that disagrees with Starchild most.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 mai 2012 - 06:54 .

[Sparse]

The ending is a the offer of a Faustian bargain. In exchange for Shepard's life, and if you want to be metaphysical his/her soul, he/she can have massive power (control) or theoretically preserve all life in some form (synthesis). Destroy is the rejection of that bargain.

The morality of a Faustian bargain in a story tends to depend on who is doing the offering. If it's the devil (as it is traditionally) then any acceptance is bad, if it is a friendly or more benign entity then it is less clear cut.

Without knowing what the Catalyst actually is then you can't really judge the morality of the offer.

[Xellith]

If you believe that eventually all AI will try to destroy all organic life then you only have the option of destroying them.

If you dont believe that eventually all AI will try to destroy all organic life then you only have the option of destroying them.

Pretty simple.