59 réponses à ce sujet

[Geneaux486]

The Angry One wrote...

There really is no paragon/renegade choice because Shepard makes no choice.

You could literally replace Shepard with ANYONE in the Catalyst scene and it would play out in the same way. There is no self-determination here and nothing that reflect's Shepard's personality or alignment.

Everything about how Shepard handles the final choice reflects his personality and alignment.  You can't replace Shepard with anyone because only Shepard had what it took to make it that far.  Durr.

[lordnyx1]

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

There really is no paragon/renegade choice because Shepard makes no choice.

You could literally replace Shepard with ANYONE in the Catalyst scene and it would play out in the same way. There is no self-determination here and nothing that reflect's Shepard's personality or alignment.

Everything about how Shepard handles the final choice reflects his personality and alignment.  You can't replace Shepard with anyone because only Shepard had what it took to make it that far.  Durr.

Anderson, TIM got that far as well, star jar just decided his magical accession device was only for Shepard...

[Geneaux486]

lordnyx1 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

There really is no paragon/renegade choice because Shepard makes no choice.

You could literally replace Shepard with ANYONE in the Catalyst scene and it would play out in the same way. There is no self-determination here and nothing that reflect's Shepard's personality or alignment.

Everything about how Shepard handles the final choice reflects his personality and alignment.  You can't replace Shepard with anyone because only Shepard had what it took to make it that far.  Durr.

Anderson, TIM got that far as well, star jar just decided his magical accession device was only for Shepard...

They both croaked before that point.  Only Shepard had the quad to make it as far as he did.

[lordnyx1]

Geneaux486 wrote...

They both croaked before that point.  Only Shepard had the quad to make it as far as he did.

Anderson ain't dead, he's just sleeping! He's a very tired old man. *sniff*

Modifié par lordnyx1, 06 mai 2012 - 08:46 .

[Geneaux486]

lordnyx1 wrote...
Anderson ain't dead, he's just sleeping! He's a very tired old man. *sob*

Yeah deathly tired.  I know, too soon

And the Illusive Man needed a life of Reaper enthrallment like he needed a hole in the head.

...I should go.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 06 mai 2012 - 08:47 .

[Kanaris]

Geneaux486 wrote...

lordnyx1 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

There really is no paragon/renegade choice because Shepard makes no choice.

You could literally replace Shepard with ANYONE in the Catalyst scene and it would play out in the same way. There is no self-determination here and nothing that reflect's Shepard's personality or alignment.

Everything about how Shepard handles the final choice reflects his personality and alignment.  You can't replace Shepard with anyone because only Shepard had what it took to make it that far.  Durr.

Anderson, TIM got that far as well, star jar just decided his magical accession device was only for Shepard...

They both croaked before that point.  Only Shepard had the quad to make it as far as he did.

Your galactic readyness must not have been very high or you didnt use a paragon/renegade the three time you talk to TIM cause you can save anderson.

[Geneaux486]

Kanaris wrote...
Your galactic readyness must not have been very high or you didnt use a paragon/renegade the three time you talk to TIM cause you can save anderson.

Even if you save Anderson he still dies before Shepard is told the Crucible isn't firing.

[Marzillius]

The control ending is the Paragon ending, for reasons stated before. And, the Citadel isn't destroyed in the Control ending, and the Citadel is vital. Not only for political purposes, but also because it controls the relay network.

[lordnyx1]

Marzillius wrote...

The control ending is the Paragon ending, for reasons stated before. And, the Citadel isn't destroyed in the Control ending, and the Citadel is vital. Not only for political purposes, but also because it controls the relay network.

There is no relay network anymore:
Star Jar, "You have a difficult decision.
Releasing the energy of the crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays.
The paths are open."
and if the writers are willing to rewrite that very specific detail they bloody well rewrite quite abit more...

[Geneaux486]

lordnyx1 wrote...

Marzillius wrote...

The control ending is the Paragon ending, for reasons stated before. And, the Citadel isn't destroyed in the Control ending, and the Citadel is vital. Not only for political purposes, but also because it controls the relay network.

There is no relay network anymore:
Star Jar, "You have a difficult decision.
Releasing the energy of the crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays.
The paths are open."
and if the writers are willing to rewrite that very specific detail they bloody well rewrite quite abit more...

Keep in mind that in control, not only are the beings that built the Mass Relays still alive, but they're under Shepard's control.  Relay network would not be down for very long in that scenario.

[Vespervin]

The Angry One wrote...

There really is no paragon/renegade choice because Shepard makes no choice.

You could literally replace Shepard with ANYONE in the Catalyst scene and it would play out in the same way. There is no self-determination here and nothing that reflect's Shepard's personality or alignment.

I couldn't agree more. I think the Renegade option would be Shepard telling the catalyst to **** off!

p.s. Your Shepard-avatar looks great. 

[Geneaux486]

Vespervin wrote...

I couldn't agree more. I think the Renegade option would be Shepard telling the catalyst to **** off!

I kinda wish that choice was in there so people could see how dumb it would be.

Shepard:  No, I will not activate the weapon that my side built and plugged in!

Catalyst:  No skin off my nose.

*Reapers kill everyone*

Catalyst:  Thanks for the easy win I guess :\\

[Kanaris]

Vespervin wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

There really is no paragon/renegade choice because Shepard makes no choice.

You could literally replace Shepard with ANYONE in the Catalyst scene and it would play out in the same way. There is no self-determination here and nothing that reflect's Shepard's personality or alignment.

I couldn't agree more. I think the Renegade option would be Shepard telling the catalyst to **** off!

p.s. Your Shepard-avatar looks great. 

I was actually thinking the first time through where is my option to tell this brat to go ****** up a rope and choose my way of ending it

[Geneaux486]

Kanaris wrote...
and choose my way of ending it

That's what the current ending is.

[Bill Casey]

You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.

You take the red pill, and you stay in wonderland. And I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

You take the green pill, and some other stuff from The Matrix happens.

[Kanaris]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Kanaris wrote...
and choose my way of ending it

That's what the current ending is.

No My way would be like in the LotSB DLC when fighting Tela you distract her from what Liara is doing and she gets a table upside the head and you save the hostage.

Winning without having to sacrifce...I don't believe in no win Scenarios which is exactly what ME3's ending is

[Geneaux486]

Kanaris wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Kanaris wrote...
and choose my way of ending it

That's what the current ending is.

No My way would be like in the LotSB DLC when fighting Tela you distract her from what Liara is doing and she gets a table upside the head and you save the hostage.

Winning without having to sacrifce...I don't believe in no win Scenarios which is exactly what ME3's ending is

The previous games built the Reapers up to be a threat that would require major sacrifice to defeat.  To contradict that in the end of ME3 would be an insult to the narrative and to our maturity.  I'm glad Bioware continues to recognize that.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 06 mai 2012 - 09:02 .

[lordnyx1]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Vespervin wrote...

I couldn't agree more. I think the Renegade option would be Shepard telling the catalyst to **** off!

I kinda wish that choice was in there so people could see how dumb it would be.

Shepard:  No, I will not activate the weapon that my side built and plugged in!

Catalyst:  No skin off my nose.

*Reapers kill everyone*

Catalyst:  Thanks for the easy win I guess :

But why would they do that? Their solution doesn't work anymore and without Shepard to somehow provide them a new one by doing exactly what the star jar tells him/her to do, why would they do anything?(as for the crucible being destroyed if you wait to long, I think thats more so the player doesn't actually think on their choices and figures out they're all crap than having any real ingame basis, unless the Reapers were actually rebelling against their controller. bah, to much speculation not nearly enough "facts".)

Geneaux486 wrote...

Kanaris wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Kanaris wrote...
and choose my way of ending it

That's what the current ending is.

No
My way would be like in the LotSB DLC when fighting Tela you distract
her from what Liara is doing and she gets a table upside the head and
you save the hostage.

Winning without having to sacrifce...I don't believe in no win Scenarios which is exactly what ME3's ending is

The
previous games built the Reapers up to be a threat that would require
major sacrifice to defeat.  To contradict that in the end of ME3 would
be an insult to the narrative and to our maturity.  I'm glad Bioware
continues to recognize that.

Mordin, Legion weren't major sacrifices?  They helped their people/others so that they would unite under Shepard's banner to fight the Reapers yet that meant nothing, even if you murder them both the same exact cutscenes play out if you manage to get a certain em score...
Shepard already died once to the Reapers (minions), why should s/he have to die again? Why can't their be a way to unite the galaxy and drive the reapers without any more death?(implied or otherwise)

Modifié par lordnyx1, 06 mai 2012 - 09:06 .

[Geneaux486]

lordnyx1 wrote...
But why would they do that? Their solution doesn't work anymore and without Shepard to somehow provide them a new one by doing exactly what the star jar tells him/her to do, why would they do anything?(as for the crucible being destroyed if you wait to long, I think thats more so the player doesn't actually think on their choices and figures out they're all crap than having any real ingame basis, unless the Reapers were actually rebelling against their controller. bah, to much speculation not nearly enough "facts".)

The Catalyst doesn't give you the options, he simply tells you the different ways your weapon can function, based on how well your side constructed it.  If Shepard can't let go of his pride and would actually be so pigheaded as to refuse to fire his own weapon just because his enemy is willing to cooperate, even after so many of his allies gave their lives to get the thing into place, then why not just continue the harvest cycle?  Organics would clearly not be strong enough to survive on their own at that point. 

Modifié par Geneaux486, 06 mai 2012 - 09:05 .

[Kanaris]

ME3 was an insult to ME and ME2 3/4 of the ME fanbase agree on that single fact but that isn't the point to this topic

[Geneaux486]

Kanaris wrote...

ME3 was an insult to ME and ME2 3/4 of the ME fanbase agree on that single fact but that isn't the point to this topic

ME3 was not an insult to ME and ME2 at all.  Your ratio is an asspull and irrelevant anyway because large groups of people can be just as wrong as small groups of people.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 06 mai 2012 - 09:06 .

[o Ventus]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Kanaris wrote...

ME3 was an insult to ME and ME2 3/4 of the ME fanbase agree on that single fact but that isn't the point to this topic

ME3 was not an insult to ME and ME2 at all.  Your ratio is an asspull and irrelevant anyway because large groups of people can be just as wrong as small groups of people.

@bold- I disagree. ME3 managed to undermine the purpose of ME2, and all but retconned many a plot point from ME1.

[Geneaux486]

o Ventus wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Kanaris wrote...

ME3 was an insult to ME and ME2 3/4 of the ME fanbase agree on that single fact but that isn't the point to this topic

ME3 was not an insult to ME and ME2 at all.  Your ratio is an asspull and irrelevant anyway because large groups of people can be just as wrong as small groups of people.

@bold- I disagree. ME3 managed to undermine the purpose of ME2, and all but retconned many a plot point from ME1.

It didn't do either of those things.  The purpose of all three games was to ultimately stop the Reapers, which you do at the end of ME3, you're simply given a choice as to how you do it.  Shepard, in all three games, is always finding the situation isn't exactly what he thought it was, and constantly has to adjust his plans to compensate.  You roll with the punches, and the end of ME3 when you find out the Crucible can function in less lethal ways is no different.  And if less lethal isn't your bag, you can still blow it the **** up.  To quote Shepard from the first game, "Nothing's ever simple, is it."

Modifié par Geneaux486, 06 mai 2012 - 09:13 .

[Bill Casey]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Vespervin wrote...

I couldn't agree more. I think the Renegade option would be Shepard telling the catalyst to **** off!

I kinda wish that choice was in there so people could see how dumb it would be.

Shepard:  No, I will not activate the weapon that my side built and plugged in!

Catalyst:  No skin off my nose.

*Reapers kill everyone*

Catalyst:  Thanks for the easy win I guess :

Shepard: I have a gun and a tube that kills Reapers. The way I see it, you have two options. One is I wipe out all that precious organic life you 'helped ascend'. All of it you stored, completely gone. The other option is to stop this insanity and leave right now...

Organics and Synthetics are working together right now to fight you. There was peace on Rannoch. A synthetic crew member is willing to die to protect organic life. I don't know much about cycles, but since I'm the first person standing here right now, I'm guessing the events in this cycle don't happen often...

Which would you rather risk the future on? A random cycle, or one that has made significant progress between organics and synthetics? I'm not saying there won't be more wars between organics and synthetics. But we can find a way to work our differences out. We can find a way to coexist. If things get too bleak, you can always return. Unless I shoot this tube right now. So what's it going to be?

Modifié par Bill Casey, 06 mai 2012 - 09:15 .

[Geneaux486]

Bill Casey wrote...
Shepard: I have a gun and a tube that kills Reapers. The way I see it, you have two options. One is I wipe out all that precious organic life you 'helped ascend'. All of it you stored, completely gone. The other option is to stop this insanity and leave right now...

Organics and Synthetics are working together right now to fight you. There was peace on Rannoch. A synthetic crew member is willing to die to protect organic life. I don't know much about cycles, but since I'm the first person standing here right now, I'm guessing the events in this cycle don't happen often...

Which would you rather risk the future on? A random cycle, or one that has made significant progress between organics and synthetics? I'm not saying there won't be more wars between organics and synthetics. But we can find a way to work our differences out. We can find a way to coexist. If things get too bleak, you can always return. Unless I shoot this tube right now. So what's it going to be?

*Fifty or so ships are destroyed while Shepard is saying this*

The Catalyst freely tells Shepard about the destroy option, making its use as an intimidation technique impossible.  If the Catalyst feared death, he would not have told Shepard about the option.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 06 mai 2012 - 09:18 .