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[Bill Casey]

I chose not to believe a damn thing the starchild said...
I went around shooting stuff that looked like his AI Core, because the other two options were grab an electrical socket and jump into a laser beam...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 07 mai 2012 - 09:53 .

[TheClonesLegacy]

actually Pride Demon is Right Bill

[Pride Demon]

Bill Casey wrote...

No it isn't...

Good for you then...

[Bill Casey]

No he isn't...
I didn't make the choice he's describing...

[TheClonesLegacy]

Does it now

Modifié par TheClonesLegacy, 07 mai 2012 - 09:54 .

[Bill Casey]

Bill Casey wrote...

I chose not to believe a damn thing the starchild said...
I went around shooting stuff that looked like his AI Core, because the other two options were grab an electrical socket and jump into a laser beam...

Tell me how deep and philosophical my choice is again...

[TheClonesLegacy]

Bill Casey wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I chose not to believe a damn thing the starchild said...
I went around shooting stuff that looked like his AI Core, because the other two options were grab an electrical socket and jump into a laser beam...

Tell me how deep and philosophical my choice is again...

You edited that post
^look I did the same thing

Modifié par TheClonesLegacy, 07 mai 2012 - 10:03 .

[Bill Casey]

I edit my posts constantly...
I'm always correcting grammar, rewording things or adding things...
I'm never completely satisfied with them...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 07 mai 2012 - 10:04 .

[TheClonesLegacy]

Bill Casey wrote...

I edit my posts constantly...
I'm always correcting grammar, rewording things or adding things...
I'm never satisfied with them...

Like George Lucas?...'cept it's with his movies
(At this point I'm not Serial anymore)

[Pride Demon]

Bill Casey wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

I chose not to believe a damn thing the starchild said...
I went around shooting stuff that looked like his AI Core, because the other two options were grab an electrical socket and jump into a laser beam...

Tell me how deep and philosophical my choice is again...

I see, so you acted randomly? But you know, the same thinking could come from someone choosing Control or Synthesis, yet they come here and what I wrote is slammed in their faces...
Like you, they may have a reasonable personal reason for their decision (your being "no, this thing lies")...

Being misintepreted hurts, that's one of the reasons so many hate the endings...
Think about it next time you talk to someone that chose Control or Sythesis, because they won't see themselves in the accusations you throw at them, the same way you didn't see yourself in what I wrote...

[Shock n Awe]

Nothing stops the new synthetic-organic hybrids from creating pure synthetics to destroy them.

Or if it does, then everything synthetic is alive, which would make all your appliances your slaves, and they would probably revolt.

[ghost9191]

well i just think ppl might miss the fact that wars and fighting haven't only been caused by synthetic vs organic. there will be no peace just because you jump into a beam. 1 group of synthetic/organics will find a reason to hit the other group of synthetic/organics over the head with a rock . that and if geth become partly organic don't they need to eat too or how would that work, and wait a min they are software how do you combine software with organics, i can go on but will go to my next thought.........

i mean there is this thing called real life and if you look at it you will realize that ppl disagree, and when ppl disagree arguments start, and when arguments start violence usually follows. /

and ffs you are taking something at face value from a being that wants to destroy you.. i mean come on why wouldnt it lie

Modifié par ghost9191, 07 mai 2012 - 10:36 .

[Pride Demon]

ghost9191 wrote...

well i just think ppl might miss the fact that wars and fighting haven't only been caused by synthetic vs organic. there will be no peace. 1 group of synthetic/organics will find a reason to hit the other group of synthetic/organics over the head with a rock

i mean there is this thing called real life and if you look at it you will realize that ppl disagree, and when ppl disagree arguments start, and when arguments start violence usually follows. /

and ffs you are taking something at face value from a being that wants to destroy you.. i mean come on why wouldnt it lie

A reasonable point with one problem: if it's true, then the Cathalyst is even dumber than many depict it to be...

If it really is trying to trick you, then why presenting you the destroy option at all, it may be lying and in fact be some sort of emergency "kill all organics if Reapers fail" device, and with a low EMS it's exactly that, but it clearly is not so with high EMS, so why not avoiding mentioning it at all? Or saying that doing something other than shooting the tube is the destroy option ("You'll destroy us if you... uhm... jump in the beam! Yes, you totally destroy us by jumping in the beam!")?

Condering it's an AI, one would guess it capable of performing a proper con. In short, if it lies, why giving you a 33% chance of winning, if it can give you a 0% chance? It truly must be stupid, if that's the case...

[Pugzley]

I chose Synthesis since I actually sided with the Geth over the Quarians and did not to wipe them out along with the Reapers.

Also, I did not want to deny Joker some iNookie from EDI after I helped Char and Ereba in ME2. My Shepard is the Ultimate wingman.

[ghost9191]

Pride Demon wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

well i just think ppl might miss the fact that wars and fighting haven't only been caused by synthetic vs organic. there will be no peace. 1 group of synthetic/organics will find a reason to hit the other group of synthetic/organics over the head with a rock

i mean there is this thing called real life and if you look at it you will realize that ppl disagree, and when ppl disagree arguments start, and when arguments start violence usually follows. /

and ffs you are taking something at face value from a being that wants to destroy you.. i mean come on why wouldnt it lie

A reasonable point with one problem: if it's true, then the Cathalyst is even dumber than many depict it to be...

If it really is trying to trick you, then why presenting you the destroy option at all, it may be lying and in fact be some sort of emergency "kill all organics if Reapers fail" device, and with a low EMS it's exactly that, but it clearly is not so with high EMS, so why not avoiding mentioning it at all? Or saying that doing something other than shooting the tube is the destroy option ("You'll destroy us if you... uhm... jump in the beam! Yes, you totally destroy us by jumping in the beam!")?

Condering it's an AI, one would guess it capable of performing a proper con. In short, if it lies, why giving you a 33% chance of winning, if it can give you a 0% chance? It truly must be stupid, if that's the case...

well thats what i mean. we won't know anything till this dlc comes out. i mean that he could be lying about the destroy also he could say that it will destroy the geth but it might not if your ems is high enough, shepard survives so maybe the geth do too, one of the main reasons i have a problem with the end is cause shepard takes everything this ai says at face value. I meant that it could be lying about all three choices not just synthesis. the way it talks when you first meet it suggest there is no persuading it, but then he gives you three options,(which synthesis in my eyes is whaat the reapers were doing in the first place just prettier) to stop or change the cycle,  SHENANIGANS

but again i don't think we can make a argument about the ending without more facts.

Also i stick by my first part of it, violence excisted before the reapers harvest, before all this synthetic vs organic crap so why would it stop just because ppl share the same dna, the catalyst even avoided the question when shepard asked if there would be peace

Modifié par ghost9191, 07 mai 2012 - 10:52 .

[antares_sublight]

My thought: Synthesis creates a convenient kill-switch for all life in the galaxy. The reapers are still alive and thus the knowledge to activate the Destroy option... just waiting for some super villain to hold the galaxy hostage.

[Pride Demon]

ghost9191 wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

well i just think ppl might miss the fact that wars and fighting haven't only been caused by synthetic vs organic. there will be no peace. 1 group of synthetic/organics will find a reason to hit the other group of synthetic/organics over the head with a rock

i mean there is this thing called real life and if you look at it you will realize that ppl disagree, and when ppl disagree arguments start, and when arguments start violence usually follows. /

and ffs you are taking something at face value from a being that wants to destroy you.. i mean come on why wouldnt it lie

A reasonable point with one problem: if it's true, then the Cathalyst is even dumber than many depict it to be...

If it really is trying to trick you, then why presenting you the destroy option at all, it may be lying and in fact be some sort of emergency "kill all organics if Reapers fail" device, and with a low EMS it's exactly that, but it clearly is not so with high EMS, so why not avoiding mentioning it at all? Or saying that doing something other than shooting the tube is the destroy option ("You'll destroy us if you... uhm... jump in the beam! Yes, you totally destroy us by jumping in the beam!")?

Condering it's an AI, one would guess it capable of performing a proper con. In short, if it lies, why giving you a 33% chance of winning, if it can give you a 0% chance? It truly must be stupid, if that's the case...

well thats what i mean. we won't know anything till this dlc comes out. i mean that he could be lying about the destroy also he could say that it will destroy the geth but it might not if your ems is high enough, shepard survives so maybe the geth do too, one of the main reasons i have a problem with the end is cause shepard takes everything this ai says at face value. I meant that it could be lying about all three choices not just synthesis. the way it talks when you first meet it suggest there is no persuading it, but then he gives you three options,(which synthesis in my eyes is whaat the reapers were doing in the first place just prettier) to stop or change the cycle,  SHENANIGANS

but again i don't think we can make a argument about the ending without more facts.

Then we agree, I'm pretty curious about this Extended Cut dlc too...
I seriously hope it will fix everything, though I doubt that will be the case...

Still, hoping for it won't hurt, I guess...

[ghost9191]

antares_sublight wrote...

My thought: Synthesis creates a convenient kill-switch for all life in the galaxy. The reapers are still alive and thus the knowledge to activate the Destroy option... just waiting for some super villain to hold the galaxy hostage.

your a glass half full kinda person arnt you?

that was a joke:D

[Bill Casey]

Pride Demon wrote...

I see, so you acted randomly? But you know, the same thinking could come from someone choosing Control or Synthesis, yet they come here and what I wrote is slammed in their faces...

No I didn't act randomly. I deliberately shot something that looked like his AI Core...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 07 mai 2012 - 10:57 .

[antares_sublight]

ghost9191 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

My thought: Synthesis creates a convenient kill-switch for all life in the galaxy. The reapers are still alive and thus the knowledge to activate the Destroy option... just waiting for some super villain to hold the galaxy hostage.

your a glass half full kinda person arnt you?

that was a joke:D

Yeah. Seems like a pretty dangerous move to take after just a very short motivational chat with what is arguably the most destructive "being" in the galaxy's history.

[KingZayd]

Pride Demon wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

well i just think ppl might miss the fact that wars and fighting haven't only been caused by synthetic vs organic. there will be no peace. 1 group of synthetic/organics will find a reason to hit the other group of synthetic/organics over the head with a rock

i mean there is this thing called real life and if you look at it you will realize that ppl disagree, and when ppl disagree arguments start, and when arguments start violence usually follows. /

and ffs you are taking something at face value from a being that wants to destroy you.. i mean come on why wouldnt it lie

A reasonable point with one problem: if it's true, then the Cathalyst is even dumber than many depict it to be...

If it really is trying to trick you, then why presenting you the destroy option at all, it may be lying and in fact be some sort of emergency "kill all organics if Reapers fail" device, and with a low EMS it's exactly that, but it clearly is not so with high EMS, so why not avoiding mentioning it at all? Or saying that doing something other than shooting the tube is the destroy option ("You'll destroy us if you... uhm... jump in the beam! Yes, you totally destroy us by jumping in the beam!")?

Condering it's an AI, one would guess it capable of performing a proper con. In short, if it lies, why giving you a 33% chance of winning, if it can give you a 0% chance? It truly must be stupid, if that's the case...

If it's indoctrination (as i believe): The destroy option has to be there for you to REJECT it in favour of other options. Picking something else when destroy is not an option is meaningless

If it isn't indoctrination: Are these options provided by the Starchild? Or by the Crucible?

On my first playthrough, my interpretation was that Destroy and Control were options that the device was already capable of, Destroy thanks to the Crucible, and the power supplied by the Citadel. Control from the ability of the Citadel (or Starchild) to control the reapers, combined with the Crubile to hijack that control. Synthesis seemed to be an alternative option that is possible with these devices, but were not the intended function. It's a possibility that the Starchild has come up with. (And after all -although I didn't think of this at the time- why would a cycle decide that the best addition to an anti-reaper weapon was one that didn't affect the reapers?)

Others have said that the options are all provided by the Crucible itself. In which case, Starchild might just be doing what it can to dissuade you from killing it and the reapers.

[Bill Casey]

Pride Demon wrote...

If it really is trying to trick you, then why presenting you the destroy option at all

If it's not trying to trick you, why would it present that option?
Destroying the Reapers doesn't solve its "problem". In fact it actively undermines him by destroying all of the life he has stored for eons...

Control doesn't solve his problem either, and Synthesis only solves it if it removes free will...


Also, I'm pretty sure the Catalyst never tells me to shoot the tube...
I see Anderson doing it in my head...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 07 mai 2012 - 11:09 .

[Pride Demon]

KingZayd wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

well i just think ppl might miss the fact that wars and fighting haven't only been caused by synthetic vs organic. there will be no peace. 1 group of synthetic/organics will find a reason to hit the other group of synthetic/organics over the head with a rock

i mean there is this thing called real life and if you look at it you will realize that ppl disagree, and when ppl disagree arguments start, and when arguments start violence usually follows. /

and ffs you are taking something at face value from a being that wants to destroy you.. i mean come on why wouldnt it lie

A reasonable point with one problem: if it's true, then the Cathalyst is even dumber than many depict it to be...

If it really is trying to trick you, then why presenting you the destroy option at all, it may be lying and in fact be some sort of emergency "kill all organics if Reapers fail" device, and with a low EMS it's exactly that, but it clearly is not so with high EMS, so why not avoiding mentioning it at all? Or saying that doing something other than shooting the tube is the destroy option ("You'll destroy us if you... uhm... jump in the beam! Yes, you totally destroy us by jumping in the beam!")?

Condering it's an AI, one would guess it capable of performing a proper con. In short, if it lies, why giving you a 33% chance of winning, if it can give you a 0% chance? It truly must be stupid, if that's the case...

If it's indoctrination (as i believe): The destroy option has to be there for you to REJECT it in favour of other options. Picking something else when destroy is not an option is meaningless.

Why? If the reapers are trying to indoctrinate you it would be simpler to give you three fake choices that all result in indoctrination, no need for a "this destroys us, but it's bad so don't pick it" possibility. Indoctrination is all about the illusion of choice, when they actually guide you to only one outcome, theirs, so why deliberately introduce risk if you can have a clear win by lying all the way through?
And even if you were correct, then why be truthful about the destroy option, he could have simply said that the destroy option worked some other way and even the most hard headed Shepard would have been fooled...

Bill Casey wrote...
No I didn't act randomly. I deliberately shot something that looked like his AI Core...

You also deliberately decided that the game was lying to you, thus acted following parameters you set yourself, without any proper indication of what might actually be correct, since aside from the Cathalyst you have no other imput. That means you were acting in ways the game hadn't planned, randomly...

Also, those things are part of the Crucible and the Cathalyst is supposed to be on the Citadel...

Bill Casey wrote...
Also, I'm pretty sure the Catalyst never tells me to shoot the tube...
I see Anderson doing it in my head...

So you don't trust the Cathalyst , but trust some random... vision?
What if the Cathalyst caused them?

Bill Casey wrote...
If it's not trying to trick you, why would it present that option?

None of the options solve the Cathalyst problems, they are supposed to solve Shepard's...
S/he says "I need to stop the reapers" from the start, that's what the Cathalyst and Shepard are discussing...

Modifié par Pride Demon, 07 mai 2012 - 11:22 .

[calabazada]

I really hope synthesis doesn't make organics too synthetic-y. After all the reapers could then just inject their code like they did the geth and have an entire galaxy of slaves....Yeah, great plan.

More to the point though, I looked at it like this: Synthesis is the forced genetic rewrite of the entire galaxy against their will without any possible thought of the repercussions. Synthesis destroys self-determinism without any guarantee that things will be better off in the future. As the sith would say, "peace is a lie." Just because synthetic v. organic is gone doesn't mean other wars of galactic proportion won't break out.

Destroy on the other hand, while morally challenging, is not as cringe-worthy. In the beginning of ME3, Hackett mentions sacrificing the whole 2nd fleet to save the 3rd and the 5th. It was a tactical decision, so they could live to fight another day. I see sacrificing the geth/edi in the same light. Sacrifice the few to save the many. It is morally more acceptable. Don't think the geth consensus wouldn't pull the "kill all organics" switch if the situation had been reversed and the reapers reaped synthetics.

BUT, more importantly, even if synthesis magically worked in a way to free the galaxy from future destruction because we are all the same n stuf, the fact remains: the reapers are still alive and kickin. The reapers DO NOT deserve to survive. After all those millenia of genocide, they do not get to just walk away. All of us newly minted hybrids out there want REVENGE!!! So yeah, there is still galactic war. Synthesis = fail

[KingZayd]

Pride Demon wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

well i just think ppl might miss the fact that wars and fighting haven't only been caused by synthetic vs organic. there will be no peace. 1 group of synthetic/organics will find a reason to hit the other group of synthetic/organics over the head with a rock

i mean there is this thing called real life and if you look at it you will realize that ppl disagree, and when ppl disagree arguments start, and when arguments start violence usually follows. /

and ffs you are taking something at face value from a being that wants to destroy you.. i mean come on why wouldnt it lie

A reasonable point with one problem: if it's true, then the Cathalyst is even dumber than many depict it to be...

If it really is trying to trick you, then why presenting you the destroy option at all, it may be lying and in fact be some sort of emergency "kill all organics if Reapers fail" device, and with a low EMS it's exactly that, but it clearly is not so with high EMS, so why not avoiding mentioning it at all? Or saying that doing something other than shooting the tube is the destroy option ("You'll destroy us if you... uhm... jump in the beam! Yes, you totally destroy us by jumping in the beam!")?

Condering it's an AI, one would guess it capable of performing a proper con. In short, if it lies, why giving you a 33% chance of winning, if it can give you a 0% chance? It truly must be stupid, if that's the case...

If it's indoctrination (as i believe): The destroy option has to be there for you to REJECT it in favour of other options. Picking something else when destroy is not an option is meaningless.

Why? If the reapers are trying to indoctrinate you it would be simpler to give you three fake choices that all result in indoctrination, no need for a "this destroys us, but it's bad so don't pick it" possibility. Indoctrination is all about the illusion of choice, when they actually guide you to only one outcome, theirs, so why deliberately introduce risk if you can have a clear win by lying all the way through?
And even if you were correct, then why be truthful about the destroy option, he could have simply said that the destroy option worked some other way and even the most hard headed Shepard would have been fooled...

Because it's in your mind. You are not completely indoctrinated. The main part of you still wants to destroy the reapers. The point is for you to decice, like TIM that destruction is not the answer. That the Reapers are not really the bad guys. There is no risk, since it's inside your head.

Saren chose to side with the reapers because he believed resistance was futile. Telling us that there is an underlying problem that the Reapers are trying to save the galaxy from which will be a problem if the Reapers are destroyed is again telling us that destroying the reapers won't help us.

Pride Demon wrote... 

Bill Casey wrote...
If it's not trying to trick you, why would it present that option?

None of the options solve the Cathalyst problems, they are supposed to solve Shepard's...
S/he says "I need to stop the reapers" from the start, that's what the Cathalyst and Shepard are discussing...

If the Reapers are intended to solve the Catalyst's problems, and the new solutions don't solve the Catalyst's problems, then why does anything apart from destroying the reapers, stop them?