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Doe's Anyone here actually like the new Artstyle?.


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#26
Sacred_Fantasy

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Silfren wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I'm fine with overall meshes/geometry/polygon design. I like default Female PC design. Marian Hawke look appealing and delicious. I dislike DAO brown environment lighting and lack of detail shadows. DA2 uses cleaner white lighting but the texture look way too colorful and plain to be realistic.Adding more gamma doesn't help. It needs more specular or ambient lightning.

I dislike DA2's Elf design. They look more like Gray Alients than the beautiful mystical elves I had known in fairy tale books,If they're not interested with traditional beautiful looking small pointed ear figure then they better called the elves something else. Gray Foresters perhaps?.

Anyway, art design is not a deal breaker to me although I tend to appreciate photo realistic cartoon than color palette and plain texture cartoon. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess...


They'd better

Why should Bioware not break the mold when it comes to elves?  What law is there that all stories involving elves should always and ever ONLY follow one model?  

Why should Bioware not make a stab at originality?  Why is it required that elves can only be depicted according to one model, else they should not even be called elves?

Appreciating one given expression of an archetype over all other depictions of it is one thing.  Requiring that nobody ever deviate from that model is quite another.  

Because Elf is very popular mythical creature. Elves exist in folklore recorded through out the history of mankind. Elves as mythical creature exist everywhere. From Scandinavia to Africa. Each folklore has different description of elves. But they're generally described as small beautiful creature of the forest with pointed ears. No one knows who created the elves.  Elves exist long before Tolkien and Avatars. 

Tolkien change that. Avatar change that even further. In the end,, what do we get? A popular mythical creature turn to sci-fi alien species with human skin and pointed ears.

Like I said, if you're not interested with the original elves. Then create your own modern day species like the Qunari. Otherwise, you only ruin the image of the elves as we have known. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 07 mai 2012 - 02:51 .


#27
M0RD3CA1 VII

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Silfren wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

I'm fine with overall meshes/geometry/polygon design. I like default Female PC design. Marian Hawke look appealing and delicious. I dislike DAO brown environment lighting and lack of detail shadows. DA2 uses cleaner white lighting but the texture look way too colorful and plain to be realistic.Adding more gamma doesn't help. It needs more specular or ambient lightning.

I dislike DA2's Elf design. They look more like Gray Alients than the beautiful mystical elves I had known in fairy tale books,If they're not interested with traditional beautiful looking small pointed ear figure then they better called the elves something else. Gray Foresters perhaps?.

Anyway, art design is not a deal breaker to me although I tend to appreciate photo realistic cartoon than color palette and plain texture cartoon. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess...


They'd better

Why should Bioware not break the mold when it comes to elves?  What law is there that all stories involving elves should always and ever ONLY follow one model?  

Why should Bioware not make a stab at originality?  Why is it required that elves can only be depicted according to one model, else they should not even be called elves?

Appreciating one given expression of an archetype over all other depictions of it is one thing.  Requiring that nobody ever deviate from that model is quite another.  


I have to agree with Silfren. No one says an Elf has to look a specific way. I've seen 100's of designs for Elves.

Modifié par M0RD3CA1 VII, 07 mai 2012 - 02:39 .


#28
goofyomnivore

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I thought Flemeth and Qunari looked good. The new armor looked good, mage's champion armor is one of the best armor sets in any game imo. Weapons were hit or miss. Some looked pretty cool, others very forgettable.

The faces/heads of almost all the characters look really bad imo. Elves look alright. Darkspawn look terrible.

#29
wsandista

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I preferred DAO style, especially concerning the darskspawn and the elves

#30
TEWR

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While I liked the majority of DAII's armor (Champion set included)...

Posted Image

...crap like this needs to just.... stop.

And the majority of the Darkspawn need some serious tweaking -- in terms of both design and armor. The only ones that I can say don't need any IMO are the Genlocks and the Hurlock Alphas, since both adhere to the lore about them better.

And Genlocks look more Dwarf-like now then they did in Origins.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 mai 2012 - 02:58 .


#31
wsandista

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

While I liked the majority of DAII's armor (Champion set included)...

Posted Image

...crap like this needs to just.... stop.


That looks like something in a fashion show, not a useable set of armor

#32
PinkDiamondstl

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DAO art style was a bit ugly. I do like the DA2 art style but the hair..........

#33
Sacred_Fantasy

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Double Post.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 07 mai 2012 - 04:06 .


#34
Sacred_Fantasy

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
"I liked this design, therefore any other design that is different is inherently inferior. Even if that different design belongs to a different franchise"

Let just say that I prefer how popular things stays the way they were. Hey, I clearly stated it as my preference. 


The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It's also ignoring that in various stories, Elves have never held a uniform appearance. Even Tolkien's work only continued a trend of making them humans with pointy ears. At first, sure they may have been humans with pointy ears in Norse mythos.

Then they were changed to being short little guys in Romance folklore. It wasn't until the 19th Century Romanticism movement that writers tried to make them be human sized again. Tolkien just continued this trend. He didn't start it. He succeeded certainly, but that's irrelevant.

The Elves' description has differed in our history numerous times. They can differ here.

The devs have said the new design is staying. Instead of saying "Go back to the old style" people could offer a critique on how to make the new style work.


Sure they can differ. I never argue that. There is no empirical data that rule the elves should look like a skinny children with butterfly wings at the back. I  only state I don't like it. 


 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote... 
Or download the mod that imports the DAII Elven design style into DAO.

Sure I can it mod it myself. It just a matter of changing the body. But DA 2 isn't worth my time and energy. And it's just a minor issue. If I want to mod, the first thing I'm going to do is remove frame narrative and third person storytelling. Change the presentation back to first person's perception like the warden. With over the shoulder camera view. 


The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote... 

Never mind the fact that in DA, Elves aren't grey. So calling them "Grey Aliens" is.... wrong.

Then I shall called them, anatomically grey aliens.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 07 mai 2012 - 04:09 .


#35
TheCharmedOne

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i prefer the new art style. just hated the look of the "unimportant" elves

#36
Sutekh

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wsandista wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

While I liked the majority of DAII's armor (Champion set included)...

Posted Image

...crap like this needs to just.... stop.


That looks like something in a fashion show, not a useable set of armor

Plus, imagine kissing your LI with that armor on.

It bothered me so much in my first playthrough that I actually reloaded and changed gear because there was no way poor Anders would still be alive after The Kiss, or at least wouldn't have an enormous bleeding hole in his ribcage.

Also, it reminds me of this somehow:

Posted Image

#37
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#38
Kidd

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I love the new art style but believe it had a very tough time getting to shine with how rushed the development was. There are places where it truly shines, but also places where it makes things utterly dreadful.

For instance, in DAO they could basically create a random elf and they'd look okay, whereas facial randomness on elves in the new design is far more likely to create something that... doesn't really look... yeah. All the elves that are noticeably hand-crafted look fine.

#39
fchopin

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No, i don't like the new artstyle, if the elves look the same as in DA2 then please don't give us any elve companions.

#40
Das Tentakel

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Can someone explain to me what an art style is in video games? I'd like to actually make an informed post on what I liked about both games, but I'm afraid that without understanding what an art style is I might go on a rant that's unrelated.


Well, there’s this www.quora.com/Is-there-a-taxonomy-of-names-of-videogame-art-graphical-styles.

If I have to describe what he seems to be implying, is that you can define a videogame’s ‘art style’ as ‘the way in which a certain fictional reality is depicted’. However, there is also such a thing as styles (or maybe you could say ‘fashion’) within architecture, clothing, arms, armour etc., both in the real world and within the fictional reality of a videogame. ‘Gothic’ is an architectural style, but in a visual medium like a videogame this style or fashion can be depicted in different videogame ‘art styles’. For instance, a Gothic cathedral can look very different depending on the videogame art style.

If you use these two side by side but clearly differentiate between them, then you might describe the following games like this:

The Witcher I and II: Realistic videogame art style. The arms, armour and architecture within these games is stylistically relatively unified, being mostly based on historical European examples from the period 1200-1500, with some modifications and combinations. However, most of these modifications and combinations don’t obviously stand out as either improbable, implausible or ugly.
Only historians / archaeologists and history geeks will notice that it’s a pastiche.
I do,.but I don’t mind too much.

Skyrim: Realistic videogame art style. The arms, armour and architecture are a mix of historical and fantasy elements, but some care has been taken that they more or less fit  together (or at least don’t obviously clash) in terms of style and technology. A few things stand out as somewhat jarring, but mostly it seems cohesive enough.

In DA (DA:O, Awakening and DA2), both the videogame art style in this sense, and the style/fashion of arms, armour, clothing, architecture etc. are far less consistent.

The videogame style does seem to go for realistic humans (and derivatives like Elves and Dwarves), animals and monsters. This sort of fits with many of the games’ themes, the psychology of the people, their behaviour etc.

However, quite a bit of the architecture doesn’t make sense functionally (merely decorative or even absent battlements on castles, weird-looking houses with no doors and at the edge of cliffs etc., absence of doors, windows, dysfunctional gates as in Amaranthine, etc. etc.).
Proportions are sometimes downright weird. Then there’s the unrealistic theatrical prop-looking aravels and ships in DA2.
Much – not all – of the arms and armour are downright and obviously unrealistic. The presence or absence of spikes are only part of the story here. Some armour seem to have as their primary purpose to ruin people’s backs and make sure they get killed in battle.

At the same time, where real-world historical styles of armour, clothing etc are mixed, there is often an ugly mishmash of widely different styles, colours and photoshopped scans of modern materials and items. There is evidence of armour textures based on modern industrial metal (welding…), floorplates based on concrete slabs from parking lots, 1930s art deco statuettes, Stalinist Gothic architecture etc. etc.

The main strategy in terms of visual design appears (from an outside observer's perspective) to be ‘get stuff left and right, glue ‘em together and hope it’ll fly’. This may not have been the intention, and the actual artists and modellers may, individually, be actually quite skilled and experienced and hard-working and all that. But that is what it looks like, unfortunately.
It is why I count the DA games overall visually among the dullest, ugliest and least competently executed modern RPG’s. At least among western RPG’s.

In this regard I really appreciated Brockololly recently posting this www.formspring.me/TDEvans .
The remark regarding the high degree of specialization is rather interesting, as that makes sense of how, despite being a veteran studio with plenty of resources, the DA games are visually so depressingly average to below average. A lack of communication and overall direction, leading to a serious loss of 'synergy'.
Of course, the limited dev time in DA2’s case didn’t help either, but I can’t help wondering whether the problem isn’t more fundamental.

Let’s put it this way: regarding DA3 I am cautiously sceptical. I hope for the best and would very much like to be pleasantly surprised, but in my heart I am preparing for renewed disappointment. I am really gambling more on a better-executed story, to be honest, and have largely given up on the visuals.

Posted Image

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 07 mai 2012 - 01:11 .


#41
yusuf060297

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i kind of explain the change in artstyle (imo) because of the framed narrative, since it was varrics story it kind of made sense that it looked cartoonish, as for da3 art style i hope they go for a more realistic art style since da3 story isnt said to be a framed narrative but If they would keep the art style it would be a reason enough for me not to buy da3.

I dont like the new elves too, but bioware seems to like the idea, in the book Asunder David even mentions thats it typical for elves to have alien eyes...., Skyrim already has alien elves why does dragon age need them?! Why cant they make their own concept for their elves? I hate their idea that elves have to look ugly.

Modifié par yusuf060297, 07 mai 2012 - 11:13 .


#42
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Art style in terms of what gamers prefer to see in 'how it looks overall' is very personal.
I for one am more into a little more realistic environment rather than a cartoony one.
I will post some pictures to show how I mean:

http://t1.gstatic.co...8yY             http://t3.gstatic.co...HXqMQbrOT0-JtzD
DA2                                                                         DAO

And in terms of another game which makes a really nice mix in styles that look realistic/fantasy:

http://t3.gstatic.co...QvfHZjaow FFXII Rabanastre market

As mentioned by Das Tentakel and other posters things need to look plausible. This goes from 'kissing someone with spiki armor' to out of the way weapons among other things.

#43
dracuella

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Seriously, before this thread, I wasn't even aware there was an issue with the art style. Yes, it changed somewhat from DA:O to DA2 but I never really considered it a dealbreaker. There were things that could do with a bit more work in DA:O but overall nothing stood out as an eyesore to me.

With DA2, it's basically the same. Some things initially took me aback, like the elves with their new design and facial features, but the more I studied them, the more I came to appreciate their uniqueness and grow fond of their special, pretty eyes (NOT the static NPC versions, mind. Those are horrible and flat and, quite honestly, a bit scary).

Oh, and as a comment to the one who wanted to keep elves like they have always been in the past, I should point out that while we today have a (mainly) conform idea of how elves look, I grew up with a VERY different view of them presented to me in Danish folklore. Here in Denmark the elves were described as (translated from Danish):
"Elven girls are seductively beautiful with loose-hanging hair and light, wavey dresses, but they are ugly from behind since their backs are hollow. When they with age become elven women [ellekoner in Danish] they lose their beauty"
I'm just saying, since they don't exist their set appearances are at best variations over a theme. If you want elf girls with holes in their backs, I'll back you up on your wish any time :)

Right. Onwards. The Qunari, oh the mighty qunari. I had heard they changed and was a bit worried how that might turn out but when I met the Arishok I was in love! THAT's a true warrior of the Qun! Big and intimidating, a sight to behold, a daunting adversary. Not a thing would I change here.

Overall, however, I think the visuals are quite satisfactory and that's not a bad thing. Would I like it if we had more stunning visuals? Of course, who wouldnt? Would I like it if Bioware shifted 25% of their resources from story drive and lore to visuals and graphics? No.

And the new things? The ideas? The changes from DA:O to DA2? I like to think of Bioware as innovative and mould-breaking. They're not afraid to try new things out despite what the norm dictates. And sometimes those changes mean that some feel it as a step backwards. But I'm still very, very happy that they try. Nothing great ever came from keeping things 'as it is now' and I'm sure they will have quite a few surprises up their sleeves for DA3.

#44
Jessihatt

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I don't hate the style but I prefer the DA:O style. It seemed more real and less cartoony.
DA2 reminds me of the Sims 3, very shiny and round and bright.

I kinda like the elven redesign, on Fenris and Merrill at least. Not so sure about the other elves, but I couldn't imagine Fenris looking human and I dislike old Merrill's look.

I don't like the Qunari's look. I preferred the DA:O look. In DA2, they all look the same (budget etc) with the exception of the Arishok who looked slightly different. They have nothing to differentiate them.

I preferred the fighting environments though (apart from the re-use of levels) because it wasn't too dark and I could pretty much see everything still.

Personally, I have no big quarrel with the new art style and don't mind it but prefer the old one.
Still I'm all for change and experimenting with the look of Thedas.

#45
Dakota Strider

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My original intent for this post, was to copy/paste a bunch of examples of what I considered to be "ugly" elves in DA2 (as opposed to a few of the hand-crafted models, that were barely acceptable, by my own standards).  Then I was going to ask, "who is going to want to create a half elf with this?"

However, it is almost impossible to find the examples of the different ugly DA2 elves in art, anywhere on the web.  (And I have no desire to replay DA2 again, just to take a few screenshots myself).  If you go to the Dragon Age Wikia page, almost all the art regarding elves, is showing pictures from Dragon Age Origins elves, except, as mentioned before, the few "special" elves of DA2.   Browsed at one Dragon Age 2 thread that was discussing ugly elves, and that was locked.

If I was the type that believed in conspiracies, I would believe that Bioware has been actively trying to scrub the memory of the hideous examples of elven artwork that we all saw in the DA2 game.  I will post a picture of the DA2 concept art for elves, that can still be found:
Posted Image
If they would have actually followed this, I would not be objecting.  But something happened after they had decided on this concept of elves, and the result in the game does not resemble it anymore.

I do not mind being proven wrong.  Go ahead and search for official content on Dragon Age II elves, that include pictures other than Merrill, Fenris, and the few other elves that appeared to be handcrafted.  http://dragonage.wik...l:Dragon_Age_II   If you type in Elves (or Elf) in this site, it redirects you to Origins style elves.

#46
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I like that it's more distinctive, with more personality. The old style looked a bit interchangeable, it could suit any fantasy game.

I don't like some things about it, but in general I'd pick the new one over the old one.

Modifié par Nyoka, 07 mai 2012 - 01:39 .


#47
Sutekh

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Dakota Strider wrote...

I do not mind being proven wrong.  Go ahead and search for official content on Dragon Age II elves, that include pictures other than Merrill, Fenris, and the few other elves that appeared to be handcrafted.  http://dragonage.wik...l:Dragon_Age_II   If you type in Elves (or Elf) in this site, it redirects you to Origins style elves.

Re: conspiracy theory - If you want "ugly" elves, all you have to do is type their names. Try Orana or Huon. If you want to post pics from locked threads, right-click and copy image URL should do. Last, Dragon Age Wiki is not affiliated to Bioware; they have absolutely no control over it.

More on topic: If handcrafted elves look good (and they do - at least, as long as we're talking about faces. Body proportions and posture not so much), then the problem doesn't lie in the art direction but the execution and possible time / resource problems. Which means that if they keep the concept for DA3 but put more care and attention to the execution, elves should be alright.

#48
They call me a SpaceCowboy

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My $0.02 on the race changes:

Qunari:
Good: They look awesome
Bad: All have the same face

Elves:
Good: different look than Humans. Unique looks are good.
Bad: Unfortunately the 'unique look' is ugly (to me), but in game we are told that we should find them 'beautiful'. Really?

#49
hoorayforicecream

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If you're unsure about what is and isn't art style, the check is actually pretty simple. Art style is a unifying set of rules applied to every aspect of a single type. Thus, it applies to everything of a specific type, be it armor, elves, architecture, etc.

Got a problem with an individual elf? That's implementation. Got a problem with all elves? That's art style. The same applies to armor, architecture, darkspawn, costume design, interior design, etc. The important thing to remember is that the same art style applies to the best as well as the worst.

Personally, I liked the art style in DA2. I felt that they did a good job of differentiating the various groups in Kirkwall, and did a better job of giving certain groups a better sense of visual identity. I could instantly tell a templar from a grey warden from a Qunari, from a bandit, from a carta member, from an elf in DA2, whereas I had a harder time doing so in DAO. I like that.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 07 mai 2012 - 03:13 .


#50
wsandista

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Sutekh wrote...

wsandista wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

While I liked the majority of DAII's armor (Champion set included)...

Posted Image

...crap like this needs to just.... stop.


That looks like something in a fashion show, not a useable set of armor

Plus, imagine kissing your LI with that armor on.

It bothered me so much in my first playthrough that I actually reloaded and changed gear because there was no way poor Anders would still be alive after The Kiss, or at least wouldn't have an enormous bleeding hole in his ribcage.

Also, it reminds me of this somehow:

Posted Image


I can see that.
It looks like something out of Mad Max