165 réponses à ce sujet

[android654]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

android654 wrote...

I think a lot of people have too many misconceptions about things they know nothing about. There are plenty of talented rappers that aren't gangsta rappers, like Mos Def, Common and Black Thought but are so good at rhyme schemes that rival most literary poets. Then there's the misconception that listening to Gangsta Rap means you condone the rappers history and experience. Completely negating the fact that most famous musicians of every genre have dark lives filled with violence, drugs, abuse and broken lives. It's par for the course of the artist to have lives that are tragic in nature. There would be no good songs is all musicians were happy and well balanced people with no problems.

People don't have a problem with violence in general. People have a problem with songs about rape, about killing women in multiple ways...that kind of stuff. Not violence in and of itself, violence that's only there to be offensive.

Kind of like someone I know was telling me about a group called GWAR who's schtick is basically to be offensive: they have fake ****** and vomit poured onto the crowd at their concerts.

I think a song about burning alive the woman who rejected you fits in the same category *looks at Eminem*.

That's a very superficial reading of music. The song was about his inner feelings and thoughts about someone he was involved with in the past. The truth is when people hurt you, the desire to hurt them back is pretty natural. If I'm not mistaken the woman that song was written about married him a few years ago. Justin Timberlake did a mini-opera where he killed a cheating lover in a car crash. Johnny Cash has a song where he shoots rival gangsters after being shot in the chest. They gets no criticism. I think nitpicking at offensive material is a scapegoat to justify not liking rap.

Also, Gwar's schtick is old. In victorian age Europe there was a fascination with obscene theater. Things like actual autopsies performed for an audience. The grotesue has always had a market interested in it. As for GWAR... well, it takes more than a goofy costume to make your music good. Their songs are about basically nothing, and that's why they suck. Not because they have people have people performing sex acts on stage covered in blood.

[Rockworm503]

android654 wrote...

jreezy wrote...
Speaking of Eminem, anyone who says Sing For The Moment isn't thought provoking is crazy.

Steve Tyler co-wrote that song. Not a lot of people know that. Personally I think Eminem's one of the handful of rappers who's grown through his music. His writing began being a massively violent psychopath and now he reads like a recovering anger junkie. It's thought provoking if you go over his serious pieces over his career.

I look at his old stuff like My Name Is and well you know...  And then I hear No Love and I just go you can't tell me hasn't stepped up his game.  He even made Lil Wayne look good and thats like impossible or something.  I don't listen to much rap but I take Recovery and I hold rap to that standard because no album has come even close (not even Em's earlier work.... NOT EVEN ENCORE!)

[Rockworm503]

Music is an outlet for emotions... Possibly the best out there.
When Eminem is singing about killing women and incest and rape. I think he's mostly just letting off steam. I don't take those songs seriously because if I did I'd be wondering why the man isn't in prison right now.

[android654]

Rockworm503 wrote...

android654 wrote...

jreezy wrote...
Speaking of Eminem, anyone who says Sing For The Moment isn't thought provoking is crazy.

Steve Tyler co-wrote that song. Not a lot of people know that. Personally I think Eminem's one of the handful of rappers who's grown through his music. His writing began being a massively violent psychopath and now he reads like a recovering anger junkie. It's thought provoking if you go over his serious pieces over his career.

I look at his old stuff like My Name Is and well you know...  And then I hear No Love and I just go you can't tell me hasn't stepped up his game.  He even made Lil Wayne look good and thats like impossible or something.  I don't listen to much rap but I take Recovery and I hold rap to that standard because no album has come even close (not even Em's earlier work.... NOT EVEN ENCORE!)

Rap is probably one of my least listened to genres of music, but I still can recognize the integrity of the work no matter the genre. Eminem definitely grew up through his music. Still though, songs like My Name Is was  a good example of his ability to flow lyrically, which is important for rap music as a whole. Once he got more comfortable, who he really was began to leak out more and more. While his new stuff may not be like Stan or Cleaning Out My Closet, it's probably because he's a different person then he was eight years ago.

[Clover Rider]

@android654 Just to let you know, I edited my last post in reply to you.

[Rockworm503]

jreezy wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Music is an outlet for emotions... Possibly the best out there.
When Eminem is singing about killing women and incest and rape. I think he's mostly just letting off steam. I don't take those songs seriously because if I did I'd be wondering why the man isn't in prison right now.

"If my music is literal and I'm a criminal how the f**k could I raise a little girl? I couldn't, I wouldn't be fit to." Don't mind me, I just felt that was appropriate.

Perfect example.  Wish I thought of it.

[Sajji]

greengoron89 wrote...

Hyperglide wrote...

So much ignorance in this thread it's unbelievable. There's so much good music out there you guys are all looking in the wrong places. SMH..

This thread should be renamed to 'The State of the POP Music Industry'

I hope you're not talking about that pretentious indie crap that hipsters listen to - I honestly think I'd rather listen to Katy Perry than any of that garbage.

Lol. Took the words right out of my mouth

[Rockworm503]

Sajji wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

Hyperglide wrote...

So much ignorance in this thread it's unbelievable. There's so much good music out there you guys are all looking in the wrong places. SMH..

This thread should be renamed to 'The State of the POP Music Industry'

I hope you're not talking about that pretentious indie crap that hipsters listen to - I honestly think I'd rather listen to Katy Perry than any of that garbage.

Lol. Took the words right out of my mouth

Threads like this is all about the hipster mentality.
Anything mainstream is automatically garbage.  Than I have trash cans for ears because 90% of my music is mainstream.
I'm unashamed I like what I like and I don't care what anyone thought.
The music industry is dying for like 60 years.  Everyone goes its not like it used to while our parents probably thought the same thing back in the day.
I find the whole thing humorous it doesn't matter how popular it is if it sounds good to me than haters gonna hate.

[android654]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

jreezy wrote...

If the song came out this decade I think I know what you're referring to.

I don't know the song myself; I just a have a friend who used to be into Eminem a bit and he used to sing some of his stuff.

android654 wrote...

That's a very superficial reading of music. The song was about his inner feelings and thoughts about someone he was involved with in the past. The truth is when people hurt you, the desire to hurt them back is pretty natural. If I'm not mistaken the woman that song was written about married him a few years ago. Justin Timberlake did a mini-opera where he killed a cheating lover in a car crash. Johnny Cash has a song where he shoots rival gangsters after being shot in the chest. They gets no criticism. I think nitpicking at offensive material is a scapegoat to justify not liking rap.

Also, Gwar's schtick is old. In victorian age Europe there was a fascination with obscene theater. Things like actual autopsies performed for an audience. The grotesue has always had a market interested in it. As for GWAR... well, it takes more than a goofy costume to make your music good. Their songs are about basically nothing, and that's why they suck. Not because they have people have people performing sex acts on stage covered in blood.

 

Just because you feel it doesn't mean you should say it.

And this is a songwriter saying that.


And, for the record, I didn't know about either of those songs by those people. I find that just as disgusting.

That's a very ignorant thing to say.

Just because you feel something you shouldn't say it? Then what's the point of books? art? music? Why say anything at all if you feel something that isn't nice?

Here's a reality check, a lot of people are f**ked up, and they happen to be more interesting than well adjusted people. Every great song, great novel, and interesting portrait has a controversial person behind it. Poe is seen as of the greatest American poets and authors in our short history. In his time he was seen as an obscure man obsessed with the macabre. Why because many people saw his work superficially and just deemed it weird without understanding his obsession with death always had a meaning tied to it.

You can't name a great musician without having something horrible tied to their past. Even if something is deemed wrong and it alienates you, it's best to be honest about it and be honest with it. Not doing this makes those things fester and makes you a worse person because of it. Music provides a medium to do this in a way that it communicates to other people who feel the same.

[Clover Rider]

Speaking of Poe, my home state and city would not let Pennsylvania have his dead body (they wanted it some years ago don't know if they still want it), because they don't want us to have anything nice.<_<

Modifié par Some Geth, 08 mai 2012 - 01:11 .

[Rockworm503]

I'll take the offensive over the norm any day.
I had a Die Hard marathon this week and my dad came in to watch a bit.
I asked him... Why do you come in here when you know these movies swear? While we're on that why is the swearing more offensive then the violence? Luckily he didn't complain like he usually does but its nipticking if you find Eminem's lyrics any more offensive than a violent movie or game. Hell I'd go as far as say its hypocrisy because you've enjoyed something offensive and here you are complaining about stuff that is offensive.
Its like this guy I know who got mad at South Park for making fun of Mormons but had no problem laughing every time they make fun of Jews or well anything else for that matter.

Modifié par Rockworm503, 08 mai 2012 - 01:13 .

[android654]

Some Geth wrote...

Eminem has been kind of meh as of late, in my view. Don't get me wrong I love that he is still in the game, I just want him to step up his game some more.

As for Niki Minaj she just needs some better songs and she would be such a better rapper.

@andrpod654 Right you are, most people have little to no clue on what Rap really is.

And Yeah Gangsta Rap, good Gangsta Rap that is, should be the way it is. More so if other genres can get away with all that dark stuff. It's also really interesting to me since I have always loved in an odd way, just how "dark" peoples lives are and for them to talk about it in a rap or song? it moves me.

Exactly.

I've been obsessed with music for about as long as I can remember, and have heard so many gangsta rap songs about gangs, and selling drugs, you name it. Yet, I have no desire to do any of those things. Odd, right? 

It's the equivalent of reading a Burroughs novel. I love the man's books, but I've got no desire to grab a gun and become a private dectective taking on all the bad guys single handedly. But, the desire to read a dark story filled with tragic and self-destructive characters is nothing new to books or music, and they tend to be the ones we treausre quite a bit.

[android654]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

android654 wrote...

That's a very ignorant thing to say.

Just because you feel something you shouldn't say it? Then what's the point of books? art? music? Why say anything at all if you feel something that isn't nice?

Here's a reality check, a lot of people are f**ked up, and they happen to be more interesting than well adjusted people. Every great song, great novel, and interesting portrait has a controversial person behind it. Poe is seen as of the greatest American poets and authors in our short history. In his time he was seen as an obscure man obsessed with the macabre. Why because many people saw his work superficially and just deemed it weird without understanding his obsession with death always had a meaning tied to it.

You can't name a great musician without having something horrible tied to their past. Even if something is deemed wrong and it alienates you, it's best to be honest about it and be honest with it. Not doing this makes those things fester and makes you a worse person because of it. Music provides a medium to do this in a way that it communicates to other people who feel the same.

Here's a reality check, I'm f*cked up. If I made music about what I felt, it'd be about cutting my parents into small pieces and doing various other, violent, mutilative things to them. They're pretty much the source of all the emotional anguish I've struggled with in my life.

But that helps no one. Music isn't just a way to let off steam, it has a purpose. To uplift. To inspire. That kind of stuff doesn't do that.

Don't assume someone's ignorant because they see things differently.

Have you ever thought about writing music about that?

Music wasn't designed to merely uplift. That's a very narrow view. It wasn't made to let off steam either. music like writing was made to communicate. Whether that's to communicate a message, communicate a story, communicate someone's history,  all depends on the musician. So you're wrong, music wasn't made solely to uplift, but you're right that it can... if the musician wants it to.

Sharing your pain does help. For a lot of people it's more than enough to simply know they aren't alone in how they think or feel. Even your pain can be uplifting if you find away to salvage yourself from it.

Modifié par android654, 08 mai 2012 - 01:18 .

[Rockworm503]

android654 wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Eminem has been kind of meh as of late, in my view. Don't get me wrong I love that he is still in the game, I just want him to step up his game some more.

As for Niki Minaj she just needs some better songs and she would be such a better rapper.

@andrpod654 Right you are, most people have little to no clue on what Rap really is.

And Yeah Gangsta Rap, good Gangsta Rap that is, should be the way it is. More so if other genres can get away with all that dark stuff. It's also really interesting to me since I have always loved in an odd way, just how "dark" peoples lives are and for them to talk about it in a rap or song? it moves me.

Exactly.

I've been obsessed with music for about as long as I can remember, and have heard so many gangsta rap songs about gangs, and selling drugs, you name it. Yet, I have no desire to do any of those things. Odd, right? 

It's the equivalent of reading a Burroughs novel. I love the man's books, but I've got no desire to grab a gun and become a private dectective taking on all the bad guys single handedly. But, the desire to read a dark story filled with tragic and self-destructive characters is nothing new to books or music, and they tend to be the ones we treausre quite a bit.

EXACTLY!
I'm a fan of Die Hard and Mortal Kombat and GTA... According to Jack Thompson I've already shot up 12 schools 
Yet in reality I can't even bring myself to raise my fists at my dogs when they really ****** me off.

[Volus Warlord]

Logan Cloud wrote...

Music was good before, but that doesn't mean it's bad now. I wouldn't even say most music is bad. Then again, I'm not picky. However, I think there's plenty of good music out there. You just have to look.
(This was directed at the "There's no good music these days" comments.)

There's a few specks of gold in the pile of garbage, yes, but I don't feel like sorting through the crap.

[Clover Rider]

android654 wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Eminem has been kind of meh as of late, in my view. Don't get me wrong I love that he is still in the game, I just want him to step up his game some more.

As for Niki Minaj she just needs some better songs and she would be such a better rapper.

@andrpod654 Right you are, most people have little to no clue on what Rap really is.

And Yeah Gangsta Rap, good Gangsta Rap that is, should be the way it is. More so if other genres can get away with all that dark stuff. It's also really interesting to me since I have always loved in an odd way, just how "dark" peoples lives are and for them to talk about it in a rap or song? it moves me.

Exactly.

I've been obsessed with music for about as long as I can remember, and have heard so many gangsta rap songs about gangs, and selling drugs, you name it. Yet, I have no desire to do any of those things. Odd, right? 

It's the equivalent of reading a Burroughs novel. I love the man's books, but I've got no desire to grab a gun and become a private dectective taking on all the bad guys single handedly. But, the desire to read a dark story filled with tragic and self-destructive characters is nothing new to books or music, and they tend to be the ones we treausre quite a bit.

Hell my favorite stories of all time have very dark themes to them, that's not to say all I like is dark stuff but I do love serious and tragic things a lot. Because life is like that and the said stories have helped me quite a bit in my life.

If anything the darkness in people's lives and their power to talk about it in story or song, has helped me to not become a crazy(or worse) person.

Modifié par Some Geth, 08 mai 2012 - 01:24 .

[android654]

Rockworm503 wrote...

EXACTLY!
I'm a fan of Die Hard and Mortal Kombat and GTA... According to Jack Thompson I've already shot up 12 schools 
Yet in reality I can't even bring myself to raise my fists at my dogs when they really ****** me off.

Oh my god, how many hours did I waste as a kid playing GTA3 and San Andreas? There are so many digital corpses I'm responsible for.

Well who can yell at dogs? I don't even like seeing animals in a zoo. It's heart breaking.

[Volus Warlord]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

android654 wrote...

Have you ever thought about writing music about that?

Music wasn't designed to merely uplift. That's a very narrow view. It wasn't made to let off steam either. music like writing was made to communicate. Whether that's to communicate a message, communicate a story, communicate someone's history,  all depends on the musician. So you're wrong, music wasn't made solely to uplift, but you're right that it can... if the musician wants it to.

Sharing your pain does help. For a lot of people it's more than enough to simply know they aren't alone in how they think or feel. Even your pain can be uplifting if you find away to salvage yourself from it.

I suppose we feel differently on the purpose, then.

Some music is intended to put down. Also, you gotta luv all the self-piety music . 

[Rockworm503]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

Music was good before, but that doesn't mean it's bad now. I wouldn't even say most music is bad. Then again, I'm not picky. However, I think there's plenty of good music out there. You just have to look.
(This was directed at the "There's no good music these days" comments.)

There's a few specks of gold in the pile of garbage, yes, but I don't feel like sorting through the crap.

Yeah you won't even notice the gold if all you expect is more crap 

[Volus Warlord]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

Music was good before, but that doesn't mean it's bad now. I wouldn't even say most music is bad. Then again, I'm not picky. However, I think there's plenty of good music out there. You just have to look.
(This was directed at the "There's no good music these days" comments.)

There's a few specks of gold in the pile of garbage, yes, but I don't feel like sorting through the crap.

Yeah you won't even notice the gold if all you expect is more crap 

Indeed. Trying to endure all the crap desensitizes you.