322 réponses à ce sujet

[Grimwick]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

With ME 3 it was great and even with the unsatisfying ending it was still great. The "issues" haters try to bring up with ME 3 are either minor or non issues.

What...? Did you actually play ME3 or did you wear a blindfold the entire time?

ME3 is a good game, but no way near a great game. It has a remarkable number of important/game ruining issues other than the ending - don't blind yourself to them.

It's predecessors are out of it's league.

[KotorEffect3]

Grimwick wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

With ME 3 it was great and even with the unsatisfying ending it was still great. The "issues" haters try to bring up with ME 3 are either minor or non issues.

What...? Did you actually play ME3 or did you wear a blindfold the entire time?

ME3 is a good game, but no way near a great game. It has a remarkable number of important/game ruining issues other than the ending - don't blind yourself to them.

It's predecessors are out of it's league.

Like what the Journal?  The Journal is simply a tool used to keep track of quests,  I can keep track of important quests just fine.  The auto dialog?  ME 1 had points in the dialog when Shepard would say the same exact thing no matter what dialog option you picked.  The multiplayer?  I find the multiplayer .to be suprisingly fun and I was originaly against having multiplayer (as I am not big on multiplayer in general) but it is actualy pretty fun.

[EvilChani]

ME3, without a doubt. With the exception of the Anders bit (that didn't fit, thematically, in my opinion, and was unforgivable), I actually liked DA2.

ME3, OTOH, had numerous problems, not just the ending, and they added up to create an overwhelming feeling of annoyance and disappointment for me. Yes, there were parts that were good - great, even - but some parts were so ridiculously sloppy. The forced autodialogue, in a game where we were supposed to be able to control our characters (and had been able to do so in the other two games!) caused a disjointed story and for immersion to be screwed. The way BioWare forced plot lines (for example, "Oh, you thought your Shepard was in love with Thane? Nah, that was just sex...you're at the medical center to see your REAL love, Kaidan! Whether you like it or not!") completely broke immersion. With no way to fix it. So yeah, ME3 for the win in the suckfest department.

[clarkusdarkus]

ME3 is a bigger dissapointment as we had choices carried over, DA2 was a bad game in my opinion.

[frostajulie]

ME3 it was part of a trilogy.

DA2 was a sad pinoff of an epic game not even a true sequal in any sense of the word as such I enjoyed that game. ME3 on the other hand ripped out my gamer heart.

[Reinveil]

Dragon Age II was garbage. So bad it very nearly turned me off of Bioware forever. I think there's some serious rose-tinted glasses action going on in here, too. All of the complaints "fans" level at ME3 were present and substantially worse in DAII.

[Darth_Trethon]

DA2 was still very much enjoyable despite its copy-pasted levels and other flaws.....they never bothered me that much and didn't keep me from playing it a dozen times or so. The story was very brilliant I think.

Now ME3's ending didn't just completely ruin ME3 completely but it absolutely destroyed ME1 and ME2 as well. A whole franchise completely destroyed in 5 to 10 minutes....unimaginable.

[Daedalus1773]

ME3, no contest. It was like watching BioWare hit a pair of Grand Slam homeruns their first two times at bat on the franchise, and then on their last at-bat in the bottom of the 9th try to bunt their way to first & get thrown out to lose the game.

DA2 was an experiement to try something different on the 2nd chapter, and it didn't work as well. But nowhere near the level of disappointment as ME3.

[Grimwick]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Like what the Journal?  The Journal is simply a tool used to keep track of quests,  I can keep track of important quests just fine.  The auto dialog?  ME 1 had points in the dialog when Shepard would say the same exact thing no matter what dialog option you picked.  The multiplayer?  I find the multiplayer .to be suprisingly fun and I was originaly against having multiplayer (as I am not big on multiplayer in general) but it is actualy pretty fun.

The journal, hell yeah that was stupid. If BW thinks it's a good idea to completely down grade a feature to the point where it isn't very usable then you are presenting problems from the start. In fact, it's only saving grace is that we never got any quests which were more complicated than 'go to A, B or C' - which is a problem in itself.

Auto-dialogue is a crippling aspect of ME3. It destroys any holding of it's rpg genre as well as making the game linear, weak and boring. It also fully destroys immersion as suddenly your character is forced into saying things that they would never say.
Sure, ME1 had a fair amount (ME2 had actually very little) but these were usually very neutral lines from Shepard and were solely plot related. In fact, the intersting thing with these lines is that they would all point to different sayings on the convo wheel and yet all still worked. ME3 has far, far, far more and usually at points during which it would be important to split/deviate the conversation. This auto-dialogue, also mixed in with the non-cinematic auto-dialogue, makes you feel like your are watching Shepard - not playing as Shepard.  Which from the POV of any decent rpg is a seriously bad move and from the POV of the game is just incredibly boring.

This is also coupled with the reduction of what you can actually say. There are fewer oppurtunities to choose what you say in conversations in ME3 than in the previous two games and even when you can choose, there are only two options. This is just another crippling blow to the conversation mechanic of ME3.

MP is not a problem in itself (I enjoy it too) - the only problems I have seen are the facts that:
1)Time spent on MP is time not spent making SP better during development.
2)You need to do MP in order to access all game content - which for a SP series is atrocious.

There are far more problems with the dialogue system as well as other facets of the game - listing the benign issues such as MP or the Journal is just an attempt to deflect any criticism of the game.

[Darth_Trethon]

Reinveil wrote...

Dragon Age II was garbage. So bad it very nearly turned me off of Bioware forever. I think there's some serious rose-tinted glasses action going on in here, too. All of the complaints "fans" level at ME3 were present and substantially worse in DAII.

The ending did make sense and people were substantially happier....their main character and most party members survived and the complexity of the conflict they got in the middle of was epic. The story did come together quite nicely in terms of logic, coherence and consistency with the lore. I can easily see how huge Anders fans would be in a frenzy but even his decision made a certain ammount of sense.....he was sick of the scrutiny and prosecution and viewed all out chantry vs mages war as neccessary or innevitable so he took a very drastic action to precipitate it.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 07 mai 2012 - 10:12 .

[OMEGAlomaniac]

ME3, beyond all shadows of all doubts.

[beyondsolo]

DA2 wasn't great, but it had its moments. And at least it didn't ruin DA:O the way ME3's ending ruined ME1 and ME2... :\\ This may have to do with character continuity. The fact that you could import a Shepard across the Mass Effect games and expected your decisions to amount to something amazing led to a greater disappointment than DA2--which neither particularly built on decisions made in DA:O nor provided a particularly immersive illusion of choice.

[IanPolaris]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

Dragon Age II was garbage. So bad it very nearly turned me off of Bioware forever. I think there's some serious rose-tinted glasses action going on in here, too. All of the complaints "fans" level at ME3 were present and substantially worse in DAII.

The ending did make sense and people were substantially happier....their main character and most party members survived and the complexity of the conflict they got in the middle of was epic. The story did come together quite nicely in terms of logic, coherence and consistency with the lore. I can easily see how huge Anders fans would be in a frenzy but even his decision made a certain ammount of sense.....he was sick of the scrutiny and prosecution and viewed all out chantry vs mages war as neccessary or innevitable so he took a very drastic action to precipitate it.

Yeah the DA2 ending was better than ME3 ending, but don't let time cloud your memory.  The DA2 ending and final act in general was simply horrible.  Orsino has a brain-fart, you have the de-facto Viscount of Kirkwall (Meredith) completely ignore the inarguably (and self-admitted) guilty party to a terrorist attack, so she can go off the wall and kill all mages...and NO ONE challenges her on this...and more....much more (painful memories).

Saying that the DA2 ending was better than the ME3 ending was saying that a bad ending is better than an absolutely horrific ending that destroyed an entire franchise.  It's true, but it's not a very high bar....

-Polaris

[M1-30Cal]

United_Strafes wrote...

DA2, Mass Effect 3 only sucked for 5 minutes not 20 hours.

This

[StevenG_CT]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Like what the Journal?  The Journal is simply a tool used to keep track of quests,  I can keep track of important quests just fine.  The auto dialog?  ME 1 had points in the dialog when Shepard would say the same exact thing no matter what dialog option you picked.  The multiplayer?  I find the multiplayer .to be suprisingly fun and I was originaly against having multiplayer (as I am not big on multiplayer in general) but it is actualy pretty fun.

I'd say more that the lack of any hub worlds other than the Citadel, general crappiness of most of the side quests (simple fetch tasks), dumbed-down controls (use the space bar for everything!), and retconning of previous player decisions (Rachni queen now survived even if you previously killed her) in addition to the extremely lackluster ending that make ME3 a "good" game and not a "great" game.

[Aaleel]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

Dragon Age II was garbage. So bad it very nearly turned me off of Bioware forever. I think there's some serious rose-tinted glasses action going on in here, too. All of the complaints "fans" level at ME3 were present and substantially worse in DAII.

The ending did make sense and people were substantially happier....their main character and most party members survived and the complexity of the conflict they got in the middle of was epic. The story did come together quite nicely in terms of logic, coherence and consistency with the lore. I can easily see how huge Anders fans would be in a frenzy but even his decision made a certain ammount of sense.....he was sick of the scrutiny and prosecution and viewed all out chantry vs mages war as neccessary or innevitable so he took a very drastic action to precipitate it.

What? did you say DA2 ending made sense.  You side with the mages, Orsno gives this impassioned speech about now we have a chance with the Champion at our side.  You beat back the Templars and then Orsino turns around, pulls out a knife and use blood magic.  Then doesn't go after Meredith, no no, he attacks you.

If you side with the templars you become Viscount and then just up and run away for no reason.

You pick a side and are forced to fight both sides regardless of anything you do, and this made sense?

Wow.

It made more sense than the ME3 ending, but that's not saying much.

Modifié par Aaleel, 07 mai 2012 - 10:26 .

[Darth_Trethon]

IanPolaris wrote...

Yeah the DA2 ending was better than ME3 ending, but don't let time cloud your memory.  The DA2 ending and final act in general was simply horrible.  Orsino has a brain-fart, you have the de-facto Viscount of Kirkwall (Meredith) completely ignore the inarguably (and self-admitted) guilty party to a terrorist attack, so she can go off the wall and kill all mages...and NO ONE challenges her on this...and more....much more (painful memories).

Saying that the DA2 ending was better than the ME3 ending was saying that a bad ending is better than an absolutely horrific ending that destroyed an entire franchise.  It's true, but it's not a very high bar....

-Polaris

Meredith was mentally unstable, driven by that artifact and her power comparable to that of a dictator.....that explains her actions and why nobody acted....she was hell bent to start a war and was willing to go as far as she needed to get it. People standing by in situations where it's seemingly retarded to do so have happened plenty of times in the real world as well so this is still realistic.

I found the complexity of the moral question of whom to support quite amazing really....lots of props there.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 07 mai 2012 - 10:29 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Aaleel wrote...

What? did you say DA2 ending made sense.  You side with the mages, Orsno gives this impassioned speech about now we have a chance with the Champion at our side.  You beat back the Templars and then Orsino turns around, pulls out a knife and use blood magic.  Then doesn't go after Meredith, no no, he attacks you.

If you side with the templars you become Viscount and then just up and run away for no reason.

You pick a side and are forced to fight both sides regardless of anything you do, and this made sense?

Wow.

It made more sense than the ME3 ending, but that's not saying much.

You beat some of the templars but enough get through for Orsino to feel cornered and with no choice....once he transforms the demon takes over and it doesn't care who it kills so yes this does make a certain ammount of sense.

As for the champion leaving....well that's past the point where we lose control of the character so we don't know what happened there....BioWare did say they will provide a story there....much like Revan from KotOR went into dark space and was never heard from again after the events of the game though to be fair they did end up blowing that story but nonetheless KotOR was good.

[Aaleel]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

What? did you say DA2 ending made sense.  You side with the mages, Orsno gives this impassioned speech about now we have a chance with the Champion at our side.  You beat back the Templars and then Orsino turns around, pulls out a knife and use blood magic.  Then doesn't go after Meredith, no no, he attacks you.

If you side with the templars you become Viscount and then just up and run away for no reason.

You pick a side and are forced to fight both sides regardless of anything you do, and this made sense?

Wow.

It made more sense than the ME3 ending, but that's not saying much.

You beat some of the templars but enough get through for Orsino to feel cornered and with no choice....once he transforms the demon takes over and it doesn't care who it kills so yes this does make a certain ammount of sense.

As for the champion leaving....well that's past the point where we lose control of the character so we don't know what happened there....BioWare did say they will provide a story there....much like Revan from KotOR went into dark space and was never heard from again after the events of the game though to be fair they did end up blowing that story but nonetheless KotOR was good.

The situation was no different than when you walked in the circle tower.  That scene made no sense.  If he didn't do it right away, it made no sense to do it then, especially after winning the first skirmish.  Plus the ending just invalidated your entire choice by making you have to engage in battle with both sides regardless.

It was just like ME3, it turned out bad regardless, and it turned out the same regardless.  They handled both choices with the exact same ending cutscene, that's pretty much sums up how bad it was.  At least ME3 threw in some variation on the cutscene, albeit it was just a color but it was something lol.

Modifié par Aaleel, 07 mai 2012 - 10:45 .

[IanPolaris]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Yeah the DA2 ending was better than ME3 ending, but don't let time cloud your memory.  The DA2 ending and final act in general was simply horrible.  Orsino has a brain-fart, you have the de-facto Viscount of Kirkwall (Meredith) completely ignore the inarguably (and self-admitted) guilty party to a terrorist attack, so she can go off the wall and kill all mages...and NO ONE challenges her on this...and more....much more (painful memories).

Saying that the DA2 ending was better than the ME3 ending was saying that a bad ending is better than an absolutely horrific ending that destroyed an entire franchise.  It's true, but it's not a very high bar....

-Polaris

Meredith was mentally unstable, driven by that artifact and her power comparable to that of a dictator.....that explains her actions and why nobody acted....she was hell bent to start a war and was willing to go as far as she needed to get it. People standing by in situations where it's seemingly retarded to do so have happened plenty of times in the real world as well so this is still realistic.

I found the complexity of the moral question of whom to support quite amazing really....lots of props there.

YOU are supposed to be the champion of Kirkwall which makes you the second most important person in the city.  YOU should have been able to call Meredith on her BS without automatically siding with the mages.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  And no, it wasn't an complex moral situation at all.  Meredith is clearly using a terrorist act to justify an overt and open act of genocide (which she is openly gloating about and looking forward to) and worse genocide against those that had NOTHING to do with the terrorist act!  That's not a hard moral choice...or at least it shouldn't be.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 07 mai 2012 - 10:51 .

[Arturia Pendragon]

Mass Effect 3.

Dragon Age 2 was not about the Warden of Dragon Age Origins and therefore could go any which way it wanted.

Mass Effect 3 was about Shepard's continuing story. As the final part of the trilogy, it was supposed to resolve it in a way that fit the previously established narrative. Instead, it abandons it in the last 10 minutes and leaves the whole intellectual property gasping for air as it drowns in a river of its own defecated matter.

Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 07 mai 2012 - 10:54 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Aaleel wrote...

The situation was no different than when you walked in the circle tower.  That scene made no sense.  If he didn't do it right away, it made no sense to do it then, especially after winning the first skirmish.  Plus the ending just invalidated your entire choice by making you have to engage in battle with both sides regardless.

It was just like ME3, it turned out bad regardless, and it turned out the same regardless.  They handled both choices with the exact same ending cutscene, that's pretty much sums up how bad it was.  At least ME3 threw in some variation on the cutscene, albeit it was just a color but it was something lol.

Orsino was likely in no better mental state than Meredith due to his dealings with a particularly powerful demon and neither appear particularly stable after Anders makes the situation go nuclear. And you don't really fight the mages if you side with them....only the ones that really did mangle with demons and take their lead from him but they were never the ones I fought for or sided with in the beginning....once demons take over you are no different to them than the templars, demons have no allegiange. So yes, I don't see it as a particularly huge issue.

[Xx_Belzak_xX]

I haven't played DA2, though from what I've read, it was a train wreck.

However, even if that WERE the case, I'd still say ME3, because the entire series was amazing for 3 games, and then in the last 5 minutes, it face planted onto the cement, in front of oncoming traffic.

[IanPolaris]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

What? did you say DA2 ending made sense.  You side with the mages, Orsno gives this impassioned speech about now we have a chance with the Champion at our side.  You beat back the Templars and then Orsino turns around, pulls out a knife and use blood magic.  Then doesn't go after Meredith, no no, he attacks you.

If you side with the templars you become Viscount and then just up and run away for no reason.

You pick a side and are forced to fight both sides regardless of anything you do, and this made sense?

Wow.

It made more sense than the ME3 ending, but that's not saying much.

You beat some of the templars but enough get through for Orsino to feel cornered and with no choice....once he transforms the demon takes over and it doesn't care who it kills so yes this does make a certain ammount of sense.

Just no.  Do a pro-mage DA2 playthrough and you will see how lame this explaination is.  When you are in the tower, Orsino is completely realistic about the chances of both his personal survival and of winning this battle.  His goal (and yours) is to hold out long enough to allow mages to escape to help win the larger war by warning the other circles.

You beat back (brutally) the first templar wave.  Orsino's plan is working and working better than he had hoped!  Then he take an extra dose of stupid pills.

It's a really bad scene and clearly shoehorned in to make you fight in both areas and fight both bosses.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

The situation was no different than when you walked in the circle tower.  That scene made no sense.  If he didn't do it right away, it made no sense to do it then, especially after winning the first skirmish.  Plus the ending just invalidated your entire choice by making you have to engage in battle with both sides regardless.

It was just like ME3, it turned out bad regardless, and it turned out the same regardless.  They handled both choices with the exact same ending cutscene, that's pretty much sums up how bad it was.  At least ME3 threw in some variation on the cutscene, albeit it was just a color but it was something lol.

Orsino was likely in no better mental state than Meredith due to his dealings with a particularly powerful demon and neither appear particularly stable after Anders makes the situation go nuclear. And you don't really fight the mages if you side with them....only the ones that really did mangle with demons and take their lead from him but they were never the ones I fought for or sided with in the beginning....once demons take over you are no different to them than the templars, demons have no allegiange. So yes, I don't see it as a particularly huge issue.

Being a bloodmage ==/== to dealing with a powerful demon or having it in your mind.  Hawke himself can be a bloodmage as can Merrill with no problems with sanity.  Orsino tried to do a summoning that was beyond his control and paid for it....and if you had sided with the mages and had beaten back the first wave, it was NOT a desperate situation....at least not desperate enough to make Orsino lose his mind.  Futhermore just five minutes prior, Orsino while (understandably stressed and upset) was quite stable and sane (far more so than Meredith).

-Polaris