290 réponses à ce sujet

[nicodeemus327]

Titanmike357 wrote...
No, I am the only nerd here, I own real armor ( 4 in 1 chain ) and a great helm.

Ok, you win.

[Titanmike357]

Bibdy wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

What I truly wish is people would just stop insisting that the ONLY way the game can possibly be fun is if THEIR idea of balance was instituted. Hey, play the game the way you want and have fun. That's ALL you have to do. Let others play the game the way THEY want to so THEY can have fun. Not so hard to do, is it? (he asked, knowing full well it is. People are busybodies, afterall)

Probably the only astute observation on game balance in the whole thread.

Everything in this thread up til now has been 'imbalance means its not fun, therefore I will complain about imbalances until my voice is heard'. Where does this rule come from?

hey, don't lump me in that group!

[Titanmike357]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Titanmike357 wrote...
No, I am the only nerd here, I own real armor ( 4 in 1 chain ) and a great helm.

Ok, you win.

I can back it up to, I got pics see.
Thanks for letting me win.

[PaladinZero]

Don't worry folks, I have talked to some friends of mine from the Chantry and I have a Rite of Annulment all signed and now Bioware will destroy all magic users in the game to end the "balance" issues.



I suggest everyone who thinks that the other two classes are "too hard" get practicing, because now all mages will be dead. Happy hunting Templars!

[themaxzero]

Bibdy wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

What I truly wish is people would just stop insisting that the ONLY way the game can possibly be fun is if THEIR idea of balance was instituted. Hey, play the game the way you want and have fun. That's ALL you have to do. Let others play the game the way THEY want to so THEY can have fun. Not so hard to do, is it? (he asked, knowing full well it is. People are busybodies, afterall)

Probably the only astute observation on game balance in the whole thread.

Everything in this thread up til now has been 'imbalance means its not fun, therefore I will complain about imbalances until my voice is heard'. Where does this rule come from?

It comes from WoW.

[CoarseDragon]

You know this game is modular so I just don't understand why patches are not the same way. I really don't NEED my game balanced according to someone else's idea of balance. What I NEED is to have bugs and crashes fixed. So why can't I choose to have the bugs and crashes fixed and NOT have my game balanced for me? Why?

[Bibdy]

Because software is software and a patch is a patch. If they choose a modular system, then they have to support that, and support it for future patches.



Not worth it. Either install the patch or don't. Your call.

[Bibdy]

themaxzero wrote...

It comes from WoW.

I'm beginning to think you're right. Too much wow and being forced to download the latest patch changes and having no say in the matter.

Now, all of a sudden, they have the freedom to deny changes and they pull typical 'the customer is always right' indignant bull****.

[SheffSteel]

Either Bioware is right or they're wrong.
Or possibly, you said they were right before, and now that they've changed their position by releasing a patch changing the game balance, they must now be wrong otherwise you were wrong before.

Wolfva2 wrote...

I think they should write a mod that would introduce completely balanced play. Every character type will do the exact same damage, no matter what. Every weapon, the same damage. Every spell, the same damage.

Straw man alert!
Game balance is not about making everything identical. It is about giving the player meaningful choices - different routes through the map, different classes to play, different approaches to puzzle solving. If one of those choices is much easier or harder than the others, the choice is not a good one, and the designer didn't do a good job of balancing the game.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 08 décembre 2009 - 10:26 .

[Tirigon]

I think game balance is - though not as important as the storyline - a very important issue in a single player game. But balance doesnt equal to mages being weak, as some of you seem to think. After all, spells cost mana and have cooldown, so its all right if they are stronger than a sword attack who is costless and without cd. In addition, mages have less armor and hp then warriors and even rogues, and dont have evasion like rogues do, so they are the hardest to keep alive once they get aggro. If someone dies in a fight, it is mostly my mage first, except if a boss + 7 mobs choose to attack the same guy. And sometimes, if this guy is the tank, the mage dies faster even then.

[Inarai]

Shadow_Viper wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Shadow_Viper wrote...

There is no such thing as a "balanced" game.

If you believe something to be "unbalanced" then do not use/play it. Simple as that.

Whether or not you decide to use/play the thing in question(class, item, etc), the choice does not require you to go running to the forums and whining needlessly.

IFSW

But the class should be available*.  And if a class breaks the game's challenge, then it's not.

*: Available might not be the right word...

The class is still available. Whether you decide to use/play it or not is up to you. For example: If I found a class unbalanced I simply would choose not to play it or use it in a way that was more challenging. If someone always decide sto use the tactics that make the game less challenging, then they should not be surprised when they find the game too easy. I wouldn't run to the forums and cry/whine about it "Wahhh bioware Mages are OP, nerf them now!!! OMG how dare u guys put that in the game!!!!!11!!!!!!11!1!elven!!!!!!!".

IFSW, and IFL2P.

As I said, available might be the wrong word...  Fun would be a good one - and the game is designed to be fun from a CHALLENGE standpoint.  Where is that in an AW/BM?

[Inarai]

Faerell Gustani wrote...

Inarai wrote...

Faerell Gustani wrote...

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Game balance has more to do that simply class balance alone. The difficulty of the encounters, the way the battles are held and this balance extend to more than simply combat altogether. I dont even understand why some people automatically assume that when someone is talking of balance in a game is talking about class balance.

Get over yourselves the lot of you who only think as such. A balanced game is balanced in ALL AND EVERY of its aspects, not just the combat and class design and execution. This is NOT an MMO.

Please, let me know when you plan on informing us what "balance" factors are in the game which are not class related.  Otherwis you are falling into the "NuRage" that the OP mentions.

Simple rule, actually:  The more powerful something the players have is, the more effective the means by which it is countered should be.

I accept and agree with that definition.  However, my question was more along the lines of "Where are there balance issues that are not combat/class related?"
As far as I can tell, the only difference between the classes are combat issues.  There are a few story things here and there, but they're largely inconsequential in terms of balance.

So to rephrase my earlier statement into a request: "explain how one class or another is better/worse outside of combat".

These are directed to Sam-Stone, not necessarily Inari, but feel free to answer if you have one.

I thought I'd replied to this, but can't find the post...

Generally, you have a lot of counter-mage tools at your disposal.  The answer is to simply have the enemy use such tools against you - IE, Tainted Templars and Emmissaries with Mana Clash.

[Shadow_Viper]

Skellimancer wrote...

Arcane Warrior is a bad joke. No doubt made for the Kensai/Mage scrubs that plagued BG2.

So you're whining about "balance" in an attempt to ruin other people's fun by getting a class nerfed just because you dislike it....

Nice.

[Faerell Gustani]

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Simple, each class -outside of combat- offers their own skills. In DAO such is of course not present because the game does not leave class development outside combat like other RPG games and this goes directly for your questions specifically about classes. If i am to take balance as a whole the game suffers badly but it seems this topic is not meant for anything else that to talk about the overpowered brute that is the AW and not the general game balance.

What skills do they actually offer in this game though?  There really aren't any differences outside of combat, so combat is the only real thing that diffrentiates the lasses.

If anything, I get the impression that you feel there are not enough non-combat differences between the classes.

[Shadow_Viper]

Skellimancer wrote...

Baldur's Gate 1 is the only bioware game that implimented mages in a balanced way.

The spell layout in this game is a damn joke. Spells like Cone of cold at level 3 is insane. This is (imo) the absolute worst spell system i have seen in many years.

So don't use the spell or the system if it is that big of a deal for you. Either way, the choice doesn't requiring running to the forums and crying.

Here's an idea, how about instead of just whining about your "issue," you actually make some constructive suggestions on how to improve the problems you feel the game has.

[Inarai]

Shadow_Viper wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Arcane Warrior is a bad joke. No doubt made for the Kensai/Mage scrubs that plagued BG2.

So you're whining about "balance" in an attempt to ruin other people's fun by getting a class nerfed just because you dislike it....

Nice.

Or perhaps because she wants a balanced and fun hybrid class to play - I know I do.

[Shadow_Viper]

ZtriDer1379 wrote...



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NetBeansAndJava
wrote...



I'm going to play devil's advocate, though I too welcome balance. First of all,
that glitch you write of is just that -- a glitch. Balance is not about fixing
bugs and glitches, it's about changing what is already WAI.



I believe most people who say balance doesn't matter believe this for two
reasons:



1) If bugs exist in the game, then they would rather see patches fix bugs that
balancing issues that do not break the game. By break I mean crash, freeze,
etc., not balancing.



2) You can use self-restraint to not run into balancing issues. If you think
mages are OP, then don't play them. Easy as pie.



You mention that balancing is about making other choices worthwhile... you thus
imply that underpowered classes are not worthwhile playing. This is a silly
notion, however. If you're playing the game only to feel powerful, then it's
much easier to just cheat.

Ok, lets say we have a class in the game, lets call it "donkey
trainer". He has 1 attack skill..... fork. Can use no armor and gets only
1 ability. Befriend donkey/horse.



Now, would you use him? No you would not. And still you come here and say,
"use self-restrain" and don't use that mage, use that "donkey
trainer".



Where is the fun of playing with the donkey trainer when he is totally useless?




Of cores I am exaggerating but you are a smart boy and I guess you see the
picture.

 

No matter
what you say, if the difference between the “easy” class and the “hard” class
is too big, then it is a balance issue.

 

Everyone
should be able to try every class on normal/easy without having to be an ace in
the game. The difference between a warrior and a mage today is way too big.

 

If you play
the game on easy mode, it should NOT be easy with one class and a nightmare on
an other class. That is a balance issue.

 

The problem with your example is that the warrior and rogue are both far from "uesless"

[Tirigon]

I had great fun with an AW/BM mage. Im also having great fun with my dualwielding dwarfen warrior now. Though he is, at least up to now, even stronger than my AW. With my AW, I switched between having Wynne and Morrigan, only one of them, and no other mage at all with me, and each one was fun. Actually, except for 1 lockpicker I´d choose the companions who you like the most anyways, not the strongest ones.



And if you really think AW arent funny because they are too strong, play on a higher difficulty, or with worse equipment, or say to yourself "no, I wont use shimmering shield now to make this fight more interesting" Or, thats the best way, just enjoy being strong. Get the mod that makes deathblows on every kill and have fun going around killing the darkspawn in masses, beheading them and so forth.

If youre strong, you do either have a good build, so you deserve being strong, or you are abusing glitches, then its your own fault.

[Skellimancer]

Shadow_Viper wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Baldur's Gate 1 is the only bioware game that implimented mages in a balanced way.

The spell layout in this game is a damn joke. Spells like Cone of cold at level 3 is insane. This is (imo) the absolute worst spell system i have seen in many years.

So don't use the spell or the system if it is that big of a deal for you. Either way, the choice doesn't requiring running to the forums and crying.

Here's an idea, how about instead of just whining about your "issue," you actually make some constructive suggestions on how to improve the problems you feel the game has.

Thats rich coming from you.

[Shadow_Viper]

Haexpane wrote...

Shadow_Viper wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Shadow_Viper wrote...


So don't play/use Mages, problem solved.

IFSW.

Yes because not playing the game to its fullest is "fixing" the problem.

It's only a problem because you believe it to be one.

"Economic problems are mostly psychological" - GW. Bush, John McCAin, D. Cheney

umm not so much    They are "mostly psychological" only if you are mega wealthy like Bush/Cheney/McCain.  Gdub is pulling in MILLIONS on his lecture tour.   For the other 99% of the nation, pyschology has nothing to do with it.

Exactly. The "problems" are only "problems" to the 1% of the playerbase who are overly critical, want/expect everything in a game to be "perfect" and when it's not; go running to the forums, crying and whining needlessly about minor "issues.".

It's just silly really.

[SheffSteel]

Skellimancer wrote...

Shadow_Viper wrote...

 whining

Thats rich coming from you.

I just wish Shadow Viper would whine less and make more constructive posts.

[Shadow_Viper]

Haexpane wrote...

Shadow_Viper wrote...

Titanmike357 wrote...

I would like to add this, rogue skill that allows backstabs when mob is stunned + mind blast = win!

QFE.

Each class has is own strengths, advantages, weaknesses and disadvantages. People really need to start realising this, and stop whining because "Omg suchandsuch class is OP!!!!!"

How many more troll attempts will you post accusing people of "whining" ?  That is worthless.

Ahh, and here we see a great example of a classic CDM, the "troll" label.

[Faerell Gustani]

Shadow_Viper wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Baldur's Gate 1 is the only bioware game that implimented mages in a balanced way.

The spell layout in this game is a damn joke. Spells like Cone of cold at level 3 is insane. This is (imo) the absolute worst spell system i have seen in many years.

So don't use the spell or the system if it is that big of a deal for you. Either way, the choice doesn't requiring running to the forums and crying.

Here's an idea, how about instead of just whining about your "issue," you actually make some constructive suggestions on how to improve the problems you feel the game has.

We're humans not osteridges.  We deal with problems and find solutions rather than bury our heads in the dirt.  If you would like to mimic a lower lifeform's approach to problems, that's your call.  Suggesting that others do the same is rather laughable.
http://www.melih.com...11/ostridge.jpg

[Faerell Gustani]

SheffSteel wrote...

Skellimancer wrote...

Shadow_Viper wrote...

 whining

Thats rich coming from you.

I just wish Shadow Viper would whine less and make more constructive posts.

Granted, but then the Bioware forums would explode...
Oh wait, this isn't the corrupt a wish thread.

[Shadow_Viper]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

The game is balanced around having an entire party ie four people. It's not balanced around a single class. This means the power of individual classes can vary so long as the entire group has everything its needs to complete the content.

QFE.

Well said, many people seem to conveniently overlook this.