230 réponses à ce sujet

[nhcre8tv1]

111987 wrote...

From what I've seen, the people who aren't just trolls like the thinking behind the endings, but not necessarily the execution.

Agreed, if the game was stand alone, not a trilogy, no real established lore, than the ending would be a genius writing move, perfect for the "Games as Art" movement that Deus Ex already did.

[Elyiia]

H2Ape wrote...

I like the ending because it's better than a conventional victory and it changes the entire ME universe in an interesting way.

A magic "I-Win" button and useless war assets are better than a conventional victory?

[Hadeedak]

I like the IDEAS of the ending, mostly. I kind of hate the implementation.

Kind of REALLY hate the implementation. Heroic sacrifices are kind of worthless if you can't figure out what, if anything, they did or meant. But... Uh... Yay? No reapers? Maybe?

[dreamgazer]

Hadeedak wrote...

I like the IDEAS of the ending, mostly. I kind of hate the implementation.

Exactly.  I don't "hate" the implementation, but it really needed a firmer grasp on timing, tempo, and making the player want to pursue the threads. 

[shurikenmanta]

That's about as fallacious as saying people only hate it because they want blue babies and a stupid goddamn house on Rannoch.

[Taboo]

The fact were're still here tells you how big the problem is.

An opinion is an opinion.

People have liked far, FAR dumber things.

[Animositisomina]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The fact were're still here tells you how big the problem is.

An opinion is an opinion.

People have liked far, FAR dumber things.

Some people liked the XFL. Now that's just crazy!

Modifié par Animositisomina, 07 mai 2012 - 03:40 .

[H2Ape]

Elyiia wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

I like the ending because it's better than a conventional victory and it changes the entire ME universe in an interesting way.

A magic "I-Win" button and useless war assets are better than a conventional victory?

Don't care for some of your wording, but yes.

[Blue Liara]

I agree that a lot of people like the ending for these reasons.

[Elyiia]

H2Ape wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

I like the ending because it's better than a conventional victory and it changes the entire ME universe in an interesting way.

A magic "I-Win" button and useless war assets are better than a conventional victory?

Don't care for some of your wording, but yes.

Why? There's no satisfaction to be had by flipping a switch and instantly winning. Nor is there satisfaction in having useless war assets. Make no mistake they are useless in regards to the crucible firing, you can fire the crucible even with 0 EMS.

[ReXspec]

The fact that the ending has invoked such a negative reaction alone from the community as a whole should be a red flag that the ending was, at the very least, poorly executed.

The common theme I see with pro-enders is that they are NEVER entirely satisfied with the ending and the common theme I see with anti-enders is that they can't see why pro-enders would find any satisfaction with the ending.

Is there a common theme here? Am I just missing something?

[Tigerman123]

Why so hostile OP, does it really matter to you that someone has the barest scintilla of affection for the endings? In this subsection if you tried to defend them in the past you could expect obloquy and derision, and for what? Appreciating the ending to a dorky videogame? Typical invective includes accusations of being; a casual fan, unintelligent, undiscriminating, a troll et al. Pfft

If you're going to bring up intelligence or pseudo intellectualism, I'd say that if there's anything people who like the ending have in common, it's that they're more likely to 've enjoyed reading scifi books etc in the past, which is more to do with being nerdy than anything else considering the disregard that genre is held in. I mean, I think it's safe to say you'd have less problem with a 'technological singularity', or to appreciate the nice little flourishes Bioware threw in, like providing a justification for the Fermi paradox in their universe. Obviously there are people who've read all that stuff and hate the endings regardless, or for many because of it, but I think their criticism is way more considered and interesting

Modifié par Tigerman123, 07 mai 2012 - 04:41 .

[H2Ape]

Elyiia wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

I like the ending because it's better than a conventional victory and it changes the entire ME universe in an interesting way.

A magic "I-Win" button and useless war assets are better than a conventional victory?

Don't care for some of your wording, but yes.

Why? There's no satisfaction to be had by flipping a switch and instantly winning. Nor is there satisfaction in having useless war assets. Make no mistake they are useless in regards to the crucible firing, you can fire the crucible even with 0 EMS.

I wouldn't call the Crucible an "I-Win" button because that makes it sound like there's no sacrifice. And I liked the ending because the sacrifices you make change the galaxy forever. I also don't think the war assets are useless. I think they exist so the people who made decisions that I would consider bad in the previous games have a chance to avoid being locked into the worst ending.

[savionen]

H2Ape wrote...

I wouldn't call the Crucible an "I-Win" button because that makes it sound like there's no sacrifice. And I liked the ending because the sacrifices you make change the galaxy forever. I also don't think the war assets are useless. I think they exist so the people who made decisions that I would consider bad in the previous games have a chance to avoid being locked into the worst ending.

With multiplayer you can get the best endings without doing any side-quests or side content. Especially if you like Synthesis.

[MegaSovereign]

It's possible to like something but also accept the fact that it has flaws.

I'm sincerely tired of threads that generalize people who liked the ending. What's your beef with them? Grow the **** up and move on.

[H2Ape]

savionen wrote...

H2Ape wrote...

I wouldn't call the Crucible an "I-Win" button because that makes it sound like there's no sacrifice. And I liked the ending because the sacrifices you make change the galaxy forever. I also don't think the war assets are useless. I think they exist so the people who made decisions that I would consider bad in the previous games have a chance to avoid being locked into the worst ending.

With multiplayer you can get the best endings without doing any side-quests or side content. Especially if you like Synthesis.

I do enjoy my Synthesis.

[lillitheris]

I don’t think it’s fair to say that they pretend to think it’s deep.

If someone says they like the ending despite its flaws, for whatever reason, I am perfectly OK with that.

I only get irritated by the few who insist that the ending was perfectly finished, exactly as the whole series intended all along, had no plot holes etc.

[Zix13]

blacqout wrote...

dmonorato wrote...

blacqout wrote...

StElmo wrote...

blacqout wrote...

The only people i see claiming to be somehow better than others in this thread, are those that didn't like the ending.

How so?

You posted a thread attempting to denigrate those of us that were satisfied with the way the game concluded. Basically, you're suggesting that we're all psuedo-intellectuals.

I don't think he's doing that at all, as a matter of fact most of the Pro-end post I have read degenerate into to " if you don't understand the endings your dumb" Usually posted by someone with "Sheppard deserves better fans" in their sig.

We have all seen numerous post (too many to count) on why the endings suck, don't make sense, have plot holes or whatever. What I have yet to see is a post by any pro-ender that explains why they thought the ending was good,and how they were able to explain away all the plot holes and inconsistencies with out massive speculation on what Bioware was attempting to say in thier ending.

That's probably because threads complaining about the endings appear in such vast quantities that those of us that understood not just the ending, but the entire trilogy, are not always around or willing to go over it again for the upteenth time.

I'm yet to see a "plot hole" that can't be explained easily.

Lolol. Way to drive the point home. Psuedo-intellectual is a good description for you. 

"Flimsy" is the most generous word I can use to describe the "explanations" of how the ending fit with the trilogy. Or how... you know, Shep wakes up in rubble, apparently on Earth. Dead squadmates appear alive on the Normandy. Easily explained? "Because it happened" is not an explanation. 

Modifié par Zix13, 07 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[dreamgazer]

StElmo wrote...

111987 wrote...

From what I've seen, the people who aren't just trolls like the thinking behind the endings, but not necessarily the execution.

Fair point. But please elaborate on "the thinking"

This is a complicated thread to ask something like this---you realize that, right?

Right now, people with disdain towards the ending are cornering those who found complex ideas in it, both "pro-end" and "anti-end" folks. They're assertively claiming that there's no intelligence, no depth, no anything---just bad writing and hollow conceptualization, which leads to, well, assertions like the topic of this thread. And that's false. I agree: the execution is off, but the mental framework and the "depth" that follows are, in fact, present; they're just lost in the very abruptly-aroused and blunt-force way that it appears in the narrative, and the fact that it takes place in the last moments of a videogame all about stacking choices and intimate connections with characters.

If provoked, I would offer my thoughts on: the enormity of the mental constitution it'd take to exert control over a synthetic race, whether the Reapers should be eternally "enslaved" like that instead of demolished, and why The Illusive Man---representative of humanity's preservation and hubris---wanted to do so all along; the "blood on our hands" necessity that follows with Destroy, how EDI's evolution in the game factors into it, and whether eliminating the Geth would be considered true genocide; and the genetic peculiarities behind procreating and advancing in a post-synthesis environment and whether it's really an evolution of DNA material or a partial gutting of humanity's essence, or exactly how far-removed it is from the Banshee/Marauder transformations (and what keeps us from being abominations). There are secondary root-structures under those ideas, too.

And ... I'd talk about the thought-processes that follow behind whether you should even trust The Catalyst---a glowing being who mirrors the image of the boy from your nightmares, an empathy-begging symbol of needless death on Earth---with the fate of galactic civilization by way of his alternatives, and why it seems as if he's heavily dissuading, or manipulating, Shepard from choosing the sure-fire, finite destroy option that he/she's always moved towards. That might lead into the debate over faith versus pragmatism in a situation like that, if one were so inclined. And, of course, we can discuss why the whole sequence feels surreal, and whether even mild indoctrination symptoms (a major plot point in the ME universe from the get-go) plays into it all.

But this seems more like a topic out for blood against those that want to use what Bioware presented for abstract thought. Short answer: I don't know about others, but I found some depth in the ideas within the ending and enjoyed being confronted with the implications---and it's not manufactured just because I "want to feel deep". That's coming from someone who thinks the endings are overly cryptic and leave glaring questions that shouldn't be there if the whole thing's supposed to be taken literally, and for that reason I'm still suffering a twinge of dissatisfaction over the conclusion and exploring other overall interpretations.

TL;DR -- Smart ideas, poor implementation, vague ending clouds the positive.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 07 mai 2012 - 04:55 .

[AppealToReason]

No. I just liked it.

[dreamgazer]

Double post, apologies.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 07 mai 2012 - 04:53 .

[Muhkida]

People will "like" the ending to appear deep or go "against the grain" of the mob mentality. Mind you those people are the minority's minority. I think all the Pro-enders here in BSN have legitimate reasons to like the ending.

Modifié par Muhkida, 07 mai 2012 - 04:55 .

[spirosz]

I even like the ending because of the IT, but I can still say it's a complete mess. Would I rather have a more fleshed out, meaningful ending that reflected past choices? For sure, but I think one of the main flaws was the EMS system, even though I understand it's use because of gameplay reasons and simplicity. Example, the Rachni workers on the crucible - that can be a meaningful decision because of their intelligence and the fact that they were scene as creatures trying to exterminate all life at one point, but now they're willing help - that could of been a important factor, but because we only see is "You've gained 100 points and a small description", it sort of lessens the importance of what Shepard just did.

If Bioware had shown us the decisions being fleshed out during the Earth sequence, then I think the EMS system would of worked out really well. Imagine during Earth, you see Krogan and Rachni fighting off Ravagers as a whole unit, yet you see tension because of past experiences, life and the whole Rachni War dillema, yet they're pushing past regardless. You see Krogan hordes, Turian Gunships flying past, Jack's biotic team, Geth and Quarian troopers working together, etc.

In my opinion, that would of made the whole ending seem that much more important, instead of "points" during the game.

[shurikenmanta]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

When I first saw the ending I was like "Wow...okay. That was anti-climatic." I didn't like it, but I didn't hate it. I came here to see if anybody could make any sense of it, maybe I just didn't get it. What I found was a mob of angry gamers who would tear people apart if people didn't agree with them. At first I was on the anti-ender's side, but then I noticed a lot of of uncalled for insults, many of which were based on pro-ender's intelligence. Most of the time it was unprovoked. Then people started calling BioWare lazy and started calling for people to get fired. That's when I chose my side. I didn't choose a side to be deep, I chose the side that seemed the most sane.

You read my mind, dude.

+1.