230 réponses à ce sujet

[AppealToReason]

shurikenmanta wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

When I first saw the ending I was like "Wow...okay. That was anti-climatic." I didn't like it, but I didn't hate it. I came here to see if anybody could make any sense of it, maybe I just didn't get it. What I found was a mob of angry gamers who would tear people apart if people didn't agree with them. At first I was on the anti-ender's side, but then I noticed a lot of of uncalled for insults, many of which were based on pro-ender's intelligence. Most of the time it was unprovoked. Then people started calling BioWare lazy and started calling for people to get fired. That's when I chose my side. I didn't choose a side to be deep, I chose the side that seemed the most sane.

You read my mind, dude.

+1.

+2 

[BiancoAngelo7]

very well put op

[mauro2222]

I kinda agree with you OP.

[Deathstroke123]

You aren't stupid because the ending is meant to be deep; You're stupid because you're taking the ending at face value and completely ignoring all of the games foreshadowing.

Here's some homework: Watch the movies Blade Runner and Minority Report. Both are exemplary sci fi films that the genre proudly embraces, and they have just as open endings as ME3 did.

In all cases, the point is to be interpretive. All the theories being made about the ending is the desired response. It allows people to craft their own canon ending without the ending forcing a canon ending on them. With BR's and MR's ending, the fans saw this and embraced them, coming up with many ideas about what happened after the credits rolled. Each believes their ending to be the correct one, and overall, most people were satisfied.

Then ME3 came out and proved to me once and for all that Bioware fans collectively are pretty ****ing stupid; The ones who came up with and support the Indoctrination Theory are an exception, as they got the point of the ending, to draw upon clues and make your own conclusion. For those with on iota of creativity, this isn't a problem. Others, however, need to be hand held and have every little thing explained to them: Did so and so retire? Did so and so get married? Did so and so get a house on the beach and a puppy? Get ****ing real. Bioware's job isn't to animate your fan fiction.

So now, the consensus of the BSN has forced Biowares hand, and now, to satisfy you petulant whiners, the clarification DLC that they're going to release may very well replace the current ending (in which you actually have to use a scrap of brain power for and think about it) with a cliche "The universe defeats the Reapers with the power of love and friendship and everyone lived idyllic happy little lives for all eternity, the end" ending. GG, guys. GG.

[Eckswhyzed]

So people like something that you don't like? I know that can be a hard idea to grasp.

I genuinely liked the ending. Was it a good ending? I believe so. Could it have been better? Certainly.

[Deathstroke123]

AppealToReason wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

When I first saw the ending I was like "Wow...okay. That was anti-climatic." I didn't like it, but I didn't hate it. I came here to see if anybody could make any sense of it, maybe I just didn't get it. What I found was a mob of angry gamers who would tear people apart if people didn't agree with them. At first I was on the anti-ender's side, but then I noticed a lot of of uncalled for insults, many of which were based on pro-ender's intelligence. Most of the time it was unprovoked. Then people started calling BioWare lazy and started calling for people to get fired. That's when I chose my side. I didn't choose a side to be deep, I chose the side that seemed the most sane.

You read my mind, dude.

+1.

+2 

QFTMFT

The straw that broke the camels back for me was when people started to call Bioware lazy. Seriously? Do some research and look at the literal thousand and thousands of variables that are drawn from the last 2 games that make a difference. Subtle things like whether you asked Mordin to sing and if you sent Tali through the vent on the collector base have an effect on the dialogue in the 3rd game. Even small 2 minute scenes like the crew discussion when boarding the Geth dreadnought have so many variables it's staggering. Just because Bioware didn't specifically cater to what you wanted doesn't mean their lazy. Try a better excuse.

[mauro2222]

Hmmm... so the ending of the trilogy became fan fiction now? Interesting.

My headcannon: The galaxy exploded because some random higher entity farted.
You're all dumb, it's so easy to understand the deep meaning of the ending!

Modifié par mauro2222, 07 mai 2012 - 06:38 .

[Deathstroke123]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

You aren't stupid because the ending is meant to be deep; You're stupid because you're taking the ending at face value and completely ignoring all of the games foreshadowing.

Here's some homework: Watch the movies Blade Runner and Minority Report. Both are exemplary sci fi films that the genre proudly embraces, and they have just as open endings as ME3 did.

In all cases, the point is to be interpretive. All the theories being made about the ending is the desired response. It allows people to craft their own canon ending without the ending forcing a canon ending on them. With BR's and MR's ending, the fans saw this and embraced them, coming up with many ideas about what happened after the credits rolled. Each believes their ending to be the correct one, and overall, most people were satisfied.

Then ME3 came out and proved to me once and for all that Bioware fans collectively are pretty ****ing stupid; The ones who came up with and support the Indoctrination Theory are an exception, as they got the point of the ending, to draw upon clues and make your own conclusion. For those with on iota of creativity, this isn't a problem. Others, however, need to be hand held and have every little thing explained to them: Did so and so retire? Did so and so get married? Did so and so get a house on the beach and a puppy? Get ****ing real. Bioware's job isn't to animate your fan fiction.

So now, the consensus of the BSN has forced Biowares hand, and now, to satisfy you petulant whiners, the clarification DLC that they're going to release may very well replace the current ending (in which you actually have to use a scrap of brain power for and think about it) with a cliche "The universe defeats the Reapers with the power of love and friendship and everyone lived idyllic happy little lives for all eternity, the end" ending. GG, guys. GG.

Despite agreeing with you somewhat (I like the ending), your insults are a little off-putting.

*sigh*

Sorry. It's just that everywhere I go, I have to explain this to people, not just the BSN, but to my gamer friends as well. I bring up this argument anywhere, and what's the response?

LOL ARTISTIC INTEGRITY, RED/BLUE/GREEN, ETC ETC.

No one is even trying to make a coherent argument anymore, becuase they don't need to. Just spout off one of the glorified memes above and watch the swarm of people agreeing with you, spewing vitriol the whole way.

Also, I'm kind of a misanthrope to begin with. Whether that's a cause or an effect on this whole debacle, well...

[Deathstroke123]

mauro2222 wrote...

Hmmm... so the ending of the trilogy became fan fiction now? Interesting.

My headcannon: The galaxy exploded because some random higher entity farted.
You're all dumb, it's so easy to understand the deep meaning of the ending!

If your perception of the ending is that shallow, you either

A: Haven't tried to put any thought behind it (like I said).

B: Are extremely bitter and stubborn.

or C: Are really just stupid. Dunno how I can put that any nicer.

Also, thanks for using the 'Deep' excuse again, when I said in the very first sentence that it wasn't deep as that wasn't the purpose. Try again.

Modifié par Deathstroke123, 07 mai 2012 - 06:43 .

[Reofeir]

Deathstroke123 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

You aren't stupid because the ending is meant to be deep; You're stupid because you're taking the ending at face value and completely ignoring all of the games foreshadowing.

Here's some homework: Watch the movies Blade Runner and Minority Report. Both are exemplary sci fi films that the genre proudly embraces, and they have just as open endings as ME3 did.

In all cases, the point is to be interpretive. All the theories being made about the ending is the desired response. It allows people to craft their own canon ending without the ending forcing a canon ending on them. With BR's and MR's ending, the fans saw this and embraced them, coming up with many ideas about what happened after the credits rolled. Each believes their ending to be the correct one, and overall, most people were satisfied.

Then ME3 came out and proved to me once and for all that Bioware fans collectively are pretty ****ing stupid; The ones who came up with and support the Indoctrination Theory are an exception, as they got the point of the ending, to draw upon clues and make your own conclusion. For those with on iota of creativity, this isn't a problem. Others, however, need to be hand held and have every little thing explained to them: Did so and so retire? Did so and so get married? Did so and so get a house on the beach and a puppy? Get ****ing real. Bioware's job isn't to animate your fan fiction.

So now, the consensus of the BSN has forced Biowares hand, and now, to satisfy you petulant whiners, the clarification DLC that they're going to release may very well replace the current ending (in which you actually have to use a scrap of brain power for and think about it) with a cliche "The universe defeats the Reapers with the power of love and friendship and everyone lived idyllic happy little lives for all eternity, the end" ending. GG, guys. GG.

Despite agreeing with you somewhat (I like the ending), your insults are a little off-putting.

*sigh*

Sorry. It's just that everywhere I go, I have to explain this to people, not just the BSN, but to my gamer friends as well. I bring up this argument anywhere, and what's the response?

LOL ARTISTIC INTEGRITY, RED/BLUE/GREEN, ETC ETC.

No one is even trying to make a coherent argument anymore, becuase they don't need to. Just spout off one of the glorified memes above and watch the swarm of people agreeing with you, spewing vitriol the whole way.

Also, I'm kind of a misanthrope to begin with. Whether that's a cause or an effect on this whole debacle, well...

Understandable...I also do hate all those phrases (I hate the "Too Video Gamey" quote) there still doesn't need to be any insults on anyside. 

Though I understand how it is.

[KosakNZ]

Deathstroke123 wrote...

You aren't stupid because the ending is meant to be deep; You're stupid because you're taking the ending at face value and completely ignoring all of the games foreshadowing.

Here's some homework: Watch the movies Blade Runner and Minority Report. Both are exemplary sci fi films that the genre proudly embraces, and they have just as open endings as ME3 did.

In all cases, the point is to be interpretive. All the theories being made about the ending is the desired response. It allows people to craft their own canon ending without the ending forcing a canon ending on them. With BR's and MR's ending, the fans saw this and embraced them, coming up with many ideas about what happened after the credits rolled. Each believes their ending to be the correct one, and overall, most people were satisfied.

Then ME3 came out and proved to me once and for all that Bioware fans collectively are pretty ****ing stupid; The ones who came up with and support the Indoctrination Theory are an exception, as they got the point of the ending, to draw upon clues and make your own conclusion. For those with on iota of creativity, this isn't a problem. Others, however, need to be hand held and have every little thing explained to them: Did so and so retire? Did so and so get married? Did so and so get a house on the beach and a puppy? Get ****ing real. Bioware's job isn't to animate your fan fiction.

So now, the consensus of the BSN has forced Biowares hand, and now, to satisfy you petulant whiners, the clarification DLC that they're going to release may very well replace the current ending (in which you actually have to use a scrap of brain power for and think about it) with a cliche "The universe defeats the Reapers with the power of love and friendship and everyone lived idyllic happy little lives for all eternity, the end" ending. GG, guys. GG.

Without IT the ending has nothing, it's complete nonsense. With IT it's unfinished, which also sucks for obvious reasons.

Many people demanding a better ending don't want clarification, we want a thematically appropriate ending, and ending that actually makes sense. Or if we go with IT, we actually just want there to be an ending.

Compared to the bigger issues with the ending the fact that we don't find out much of what happens after the choice we make is an absolute non-issue.

[xsdob]

I did not mind the ending, but my stance of non-hate gets lumped in with those who liked the ending so I might as well be in this camp. Your overly sweeping assessment does not cover me, for I do not appreciate the ambiguity r depth but what it attempted to do. My suspension of disbelief remained unbroken and the endings worked enough for me to accept, that is it.

Control allowed me to harness the power of an evil force and turn it into a force for good and that worked fine with me. The crucible was said to be linked into the relay network to draw it's power from so that worked fine with me. I can belive that joker was either sent away from the battle or was forced to pull back, after all there doesn't appear to be any of the galaxies fleet or the reapers left around earth when the crucible fired so probably joker was headed where the rest of the fleet went. The crashing on the planet and not getting rescued is the only thing that bothers me, but the extended cut is supposed to adress this so I'm stable in my disatisfaction of this for now. The stargazer scene to me was a nice attempt to try and show that all life in the galaxy wasn't doomed so that made me glad, that was what I was fighting for in the first place, for my firends, my allies, and for the future of all life in the galaxy.

Pretty much the endings seemed to cater to the philosophy and world views I have, and no that doesn't include genocide, eugenics, or slavery so don't bring it up to try and discredit me or derail this post, all I'm doing is explaining my thought processes and also I'm comming up to a point. The ending suites me, but the thing is I'm not the only person playing, and to someone who doesn't share my perspective, outlook and conundrums of philosophy or the actions of my paragon shepard, the endings wouldn't sit right with them.

I see a lot of symbolic imagry, grey area choices, and ideas that I like but didn't manage to get off the ground, but as only one of many who played the game they endings probably should have had more variety to match other peoples preferences.

Modifié par xsdob, 07 mai 2012 - 07:01 .

[An English Gamer]

To be honest I can't see how someone could like the ending. When I think of it I don't think of how senseless it is. I don't think of how all 3 ending are the same. I think of how with that ending the universe I was immersed in is now destroyed with the destruction of the Mass Relays. I think of how the crew and characters I've become attatched to are almost all going to die. I think of how stupid it seems that it ended up like this despite obvious alternatives.

How someone could like the ending when it quite frankly destroys the Mass Effect universe is beyond my comprehension.

Also to those that are like "Oh, you're not supposed to get an ultimate conclusion. You're meant to decide from your own experience what happens in the end." If Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo dissapearing over the edge in mt Doom before it cut to credits would that have been better?

Modifié par An English Gamer, 07 mai 2012 - 06:51 .

[Deathstroke123]

KosakNZ wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

You aren't stupid because the ending is meant to be deep; You're stupid because you're taking the ending at face value and completely ignoring all of the games foreshadowing.

Here's some homework: Watch the movies Blade Runner and Minority Report. Both are exemplary sci fi films that the genre proudly embraces, and they have just as open endings as ME3 did.

In all cases, the point is to be interpretive. All the theories being made about the ending is the desired response. It allows people to craft their own canon ending without the ending forcing a canon ending on them. With BR's and MR's ending, the fans saw this and embraced them, coming up with many ideas about what happened after the credits rolled. Each believes their ending to be the correct one, and overall, most people were satisfied.

Then ME3 came out and proved to me once and for all that Bioware fans collectively are pretty ****ing stupid; The ones who came up with and support the Indoctrination Theory are an exception, as they got the point of the ending, to draw upon clues and make your own conclusion. For those with on iota of creativity, this isn't a problem. Others, however, need to be hand held and have every little thing explained to them: Did so and so retire? Did so and so get married? Did so and so get a house on the beach and a puppy? Get ****ing real. Bioware's job isn't to animate your fan fiction.

So now, the consensus of the BSN has forced Biowares hand, and now, to satisfy you petulant whiners, the clarification DLC that they're going to release may very well replace the current ending (in which you actually have to use a scrap of brain power for and think about it) with a cliche "The universe defeats the Reapers with the power of love and friendship and everyone lived idyllic happy little lives for all eternity, the end" ending. GG, guys. GG.

Without IT the ending has nothing, it's complete nonsense. With IT it's unfinished, which also sucks for obvious reasons.

Many people demanding a better ending don't want clarification, we want a thematically appropriate ending, and ending that actually makes sense. Or if we go with IT, we actually just want there to be an ending.

Compared to the bigger issues with the ending the fact that we don't find out much of what happens after the choice we make is an absolute non-issue.

The way I see it, your choices were shown along the way. Yes, some extra cutscenes here and there would be nice, but for me, they weren't nessesary. By the time I arrived at Earth, in my mind I was well aware of the fact that I cured the genophage, gave the rachni a chance to redeem themselves as a species, helped the quarians and geth find peace, avenged Thane, etc. The game didn't really need to show me these things, because I already had a sense of achievement for the act of doing them, you know? In my mind, the Krogan are repopulating and are headed towards a cultural renaissance, the rachni are earning the respect of the council races and dispelling the myth of them being savage, and the geth were helping the quarians in cultivating their once lost planet, as all of these things are heavily implied.

But w/e, that's just my take on it. If others want more cutscenes to show these choices more in depth, more power to you, but the overall fan response has been so out of proportion it's sickening. You'd have thought the ending killed their parents or something.

[Robhuzz]

JSwisha wrote...

I only know of one person that thought the ending was decent for what it was, and didn't understand why it had received so much hate and criticism. He didn't play ME1 or ME2 however, and once I explained some of the stuff that happened in those games, he started to realize why the majority of fans weren't satisfied.

I honestly don't see how it's possible for any fan that's played the entire series to be content with the ending we received.

Same here... same here. I cannot fathom how anyone who has played the entire series and in any way cares about the series as a whole can possibly like the endings, much less think it's a fitting conclusion.

It also doesn't help that many of the pro ending threads around are simply troll threads and many articles being 'pro ending' completely miss the point. Reaching for some kind of religious or political similarities between life and the ending and those similarities are what makes the ending 'good' and 'deep' somehow. Not realizing they're just completely missing the point and are simply grasping at straws, desperate to find something that can make them like the ending somehow.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 07 mai 2012 - 06:55 .

[xsdob]

An English Gamer wrote...

To be honest I can't see how someone could like the ending. When I think of it I don't think of how senseless it is. I don't think of how all 3 ending are the same. I think of how with that ending the universe I was immersed in is now destroyed with the destruction of the Mass Relays. I think of how the crew and characters I've become attatched to are almost all going to die. I think of how stupid it seems that it ended up like this despite obvious alternatives.

How someone could like the ending when it quite frankly destroys the Mass Effect universe is beyond my comprehension.

Also to those that are like "Oh, you're not supposed to get an ultimate conclusion. You're meant to decide from your own experience what happens in the end." If Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo dissapearing over the edge in mt Doom before it cut to credits would that have been better?

I do not agree with you, I outlined a general idea of why I liked the endings and I can tell you right now that the relay's never made mass effect great to me, nor did the rpg elements, it was the characters and the setting, and the setting is still alive and the possiblity for other characters and stories to be told still exsist.

That is my opinion and I just wanted to have that voiced.

[KosakNZ]

Deathstroke123 wrote...

KosakNZ wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

You aren't stupid because the ending is meant to be deep; You're stupid because you're taking the ending at face value and completely ignoring all of the games foreshadowing.

Here's some homework: Watch the movies Blade Runner and Minority Report. Both are exemplary sci fi films that the genre proudly embraces, and they have just as open endings as ME3 did.

In all cases, the point is to be interpretive. All the theories being made about the ending is the desired response. It allows people to craft their own canon ending without the ending forcing a canon ending on them. With BR's and MR's ending, the fans saw this and embraced them, coming up with many ideas about what happened after the credits rolled. Each believes their ending to be the correct one, and overall, most people were satisfied.

Then ME3 came out and proved to me once and for all that Bioware fans collectively are pretty ****ing stupid; The ones who came up with and support the Indoctrination Theory are an exception, as they got the point of the ending, to draw upon clues and make your own conclusion. For those with on iota of creativity, this isn't a problem. Others, however, need to be hand held and have every little thing explained to them: Did so and so retire? Did so and so get married? Did so and so get a house on the beach and a puppy? Get ****ing real. Bioware's job isn't to animate your fan fiction.

So now, the consensus of the BSN has forced Biowares hand, and now, to satisfy you petulant whiners, the clarification DLC that they're going to release may very well replace the current ending (in which you actually have to use a scrap of brain power for and think about it) with a cliche "The universe defeats the Reapers with the power of love and friendship and everyone lived idyllic happy little lives for all eternity, the end" ending. GG, guys. GG.

Without IT the ending has nothing, it's complete nonsense. With IT it's unfinished, which also sucks for obvious reasons.

Many people demanding a better ending don't want clarification, we want a thematically appropriate ending, and ending that actually makes sense. Or if we go with IT, we actually just want there to be an ending.

Compared to the bigger issues with the ending the fact that we don't find out much of what happens after the choice we make is an absolute non-issue.

The way I see it, your choices were shown along the way. Yes, some extra cutscenes here and there would be nice, but for me, they weren't nessesary. By the time I arrived at Earth, in my mind I was well aware of the fact that I cured the genophage, gave the rachni a chance to redeem themselves as a species, helped the quarians and geth find peace, avenged Thane, etc. The game didn't really need to show me these things, because I already had a sense of achievement for the act of doing them, you know? In my mind, the Krogan are repopulating and are headed towards a cultural renaissance, the rachni are earning the respect of the council races and dispelling the myth of them being savage, and the geth were helping the quarians in cultivating their once lost planet, as all of these things are heavily implied.

But w/e, that's just my take on it. If others want more cutscenes to show these choices more in depth, more power to you, but the overall fan response has been so out of proportion it's sickening. You'd have thought the ending killed their parents or something.

Seriously, did you even read my post at all?

[Reofeir]

An English Gamer wrote...

To be honest I can't see how someone could like the ending. When I think of it I don't think of how senseless it is. I don't think of how all 3 ending are the same. I think of how with that ending the universe I was immersed in is now destroyed with the destruction of the Mass Relays. I think of how the crew and characters I've become attatched to are almost all going to die. I think of how stupid it seems that it ended up like this despite obvious alternatives.

How someone could like the ending when it quite frankly destroys the Mass Effect universe is beyond my comprehension.

Also to those that are like "Oh, you're not supposed to get an ultimate conclusion. You're meant to decide from your own experience what happens in the end." If Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo dissapearing over the edge in mt Doom before it cut to credits would that have been better?

While yes there was no explination and soon to be fixed by the Extended cut...The relays did NOT destroy the galaxy. Fast travel, yes destroyed. The galaxy? Not blown up at least.

[mauro2222]

Deathstroke123 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Hmmm... so the ending of the trilogy became fan fiction now? Interesting.

My headcannon: The galaxy exploded because some random higher entity farted.
You're all dumb, it's so easy to understand the deep meaning of the ending!

If your perception of the ending is that shallow, you either

A: Haven't tried to put any thought behind it (like I said).

B: Are extremely bitter and stubborn.

or C: Are really just stupid. Dunno how I can put that any nicer.

Also, thanks for using the 'Deep' excuse again, when I said in the very first sentence that it wasn't deep as that wasn't the purpose. Try again.

What "thought behind it"? there is nothing behind it... that's your mind making fan fiction like the IT.

I could give 100 explanations based on imagination as to why Shepard is on earth after the Citadel exploded and all of them are nosense... because there is no logical explanation for that.

[Deathstroke123]

An English Gamer wrote...

To be honest I can't see how someone could like the ending. When I think of it I don't think of how senseless it is. I don't think of how all 3 ending are the same. I think of how with that ending the universe I was immersed in is now destroyed with the destruction of the Mass Relays. I think of how the crew and characters I've become attatched to are almost all going to die. I think of how stupid it seems that it ended up like this despite obvious alternatives.

How someone could like the ending when it quite frankly destroys the Mass Effect universe is beyond my comprehension.

Also to those that are like "Oh, you're not supposed to get an ultimate conclusion. You're meant to decide from your own experience what happens in the end." If Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo dissapearing over the edge in mt Doom before it cut to credits would that have been better?

You know how lord of the rings did end? The exact way that people are asking that ME3 be ended, by showing EVERY little thing that happens afterword, and guess what? That was, by far, the more criticized part of Return of The King, the fact that they took a whole 45 minutes (oi vey) to show everyone going back home, settling down, yatta yatta yatta, when it really wasn't needed, because you know that they're alive when the ring is destroyed, so you can just take for granted that they turned out all right.

The reason this was so criticized was because it made the ending seem less important. The movie reached it's climax far too early, so for the next 45 minutes, you're sitting there going "Ok, so everyone goes back home and lives happily ever after, I get it, just end already!". The big bad is gone, so there's no more tension or excitement. If the movie ended with the ring being destroyed and a scene with the fellowship saying a few last words and heading in different directions, it would've been a vastly superior ending.

[balance5050]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

An English Gamer wrote...

To be honest I can't see how someone could like the ending. When I think of it I don't think of how senseless it is. I don't think of how all 3 ending are the same. I think of how with that ending the universe I was immersed in is now destroyed with the destruction of the Mass Relays. I think of how the crew and characters I've become attatched to are almost all going to die. I think of how stupid it seems that it ended up like this despite obvious alternatives.

How someone could like the ending when it quite frankly destroys the Mass Effect universe is beyond my comprehension.

Also to those that are like "Oh, you're not supposed to get an ultimate conclusion. You're meant to decide from your own experience what happens in the end." If Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo dissapearing over the edge in mt Doom before it cut to credits would that have been better?

You DO realize that the Relays didn't go supernova, don't you?

It's implied by "the arrival" DLC, but, y'know, speculations from everyone!