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[Deathstroke123]

KingKhan03 wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

All I recall is something about eagles, then I took a nice 30 minute nap, then I left the theater 

Ah yes, those eagles...  Why Frodo didn't just ride one from the very beginning and just dropped the ring into the volcano from the sky....well that's another topic.

WTF TOLKIEN/JACKSON, THIS ENDING HAS HUGE PLOT HOLES, YOU'VE RUINED THE WHOLE SERIES SOMEHOW.

RETAKE MIDDLE EARTH.

Yeahh I don't think ME3 is any better.

http://www.bit-101.c...opinion-man.jpg

[Clayless]

balance5050 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

No energy mean no gravitational pull to hold the unconnected pieces together. Thus the inertial force of them spinning and the kinetic force from shooting the large burst of energy made them slowly drift apart in the gravity and friction free environments of space.

College entry level physics make me see it this way.

The energy (several supernovas worth) contained within has to go somewhere though, does the last relay just shoot it out into darkspace?

I'd say the last relay is the Alpha relay or the Omega 4 relay.

Meaning it's either shot harmlessly into the galactic core or it destroys the system that was supposed to shoot it into the Alpha relay.

[KingKhan03]

Deathstroke123 wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

All I recall is something about eagles, then I took a nice 30 minute nap, then I left the theater 

Ah yes, those eagles...  Why Frodo didn't just ride one from the very beginning and just dropped the ring into the volcano from the sky....well that's another topic.

WTF TOLKIEN/JACKSON, THIS ENDING HAS HUGE PLOT HOLES, YOU'VE RUINED THE WHOLE SERIES SOMEHOW.

RETAKE MIDDLE EARTH.

Yeahh I don't think ME3 is any better.

http://www.bit-101.c...opinion-man.jpg

lol the meme is totally worth it!

[mauro2222]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

All I recall is something about eagles, then I took a nice 30 minute nap, then I left the theater 

Ah yes, those eagles...  Why Frodo didn't just ride one from the very beginning and just dropped the ring into the volcano from the sky....well that's another topic.

Nazgul and hundreds of fell beasts.

You mean those same creatures that Gandalf easily repelled with 1 of the 3 spells he used throughout all the films?

Gandalf is a Maiar a servant of the Valar (gods)... he is more powerful than the witch king, but he is just one guy trapped in human form against an army. And the Nazgul are more powerful in Sauron's dominion.

[Nightwriter]

Johcande XX wrote...

-sigh-

The problem here is that there are narrative inconsistencies in the ending, which can be easily rectified with minor inferences and speculation. There are individuals who like that sort of thing; however, judging by the threads, most do not.

Pro-ending may infer a winning scenario, while Anti-ending may assume everyone starves. Each groups' speculation pisses off the other, blah blah who cares. If anyone is suggesting that someone "just didn't get it, or didn't put enough thought into it" then they are idiots, and are missing the entire point of an 'open-ended' narrative. There's no right answer, it's the readers' story.

Personally, I don't like the ending. Why? Because it's the ending, . . . THE ending, I was told there'd be more than one. Some say that BW being called lazy set them off, well THE ending is what I would call lazy.

I really have to disagree with this. I like speculating. ME3 doesn't prompt me to speculate. It prompts me to fix it.

Furthermore this series has set up absolutely no groundwork for Inception-esque open-ended speculations. This was never one of those faux intellectual, smugly ambiguous, "no one knows what happened but all answers are right" universes. Not that Inception was one of those.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 07 mai 2012 - 07:27 .

[Clayless]

mauro2222 wrote...

Gandalf is a Maiar a servant of the Valar (gods)... he is more powerful than the witch king, but he is just one guy trapped in human form against an army. And the Nazgul are more powerful in Sauron's dominion.

I don't remember that part in the films, I think you're using stuff from the books to try and patch up plot holes.

[KingKhan03]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Gandalf is a Maiar a servant of the Valar (gods)... he is more powerful than the witch king, but he is just one guy trapped in human form against an army. And the Nazgul are more powerful in Sauron's dominion.

I don't remember that part in the films, I think you're using stuff from the books to try and patch up plot holes.

Aren't the movies based off the books, The books came first.

[balance5050]

xsdob wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

No energy mean no gravitational pull to hold the unconnected pieces together. Thus the inertial force of them spinning and the kinetic force from shooting the large burst of energy made them slowly drift apart in the gravity and friction free environments of space.

College entry level physics make me see it this way.

The energy (several supernovas worth) contained within has to go somewhere though, does the last relay just shoot it out into darkspace?

Could be that the energy inside the relays is used up creating the localized energy field seen, the emp like effect, and that the energy is burned off so rapidly that it leaves the relays literally dead in space in a matter of moments, a few chemicals and espically alkiline metals have this kind of reaction in water, a lot of energy is dispersed in a matter of seconds.

The point is that each relay contains as much energy as a super nova, it won't be "dispersed in a matter of seconds." without frying nearby planets. The energy must be released in the beam if we are to  beleive that the energy wasn't expelled in all directions in an explosion.

Modifié par balance5050, 07 mai 2012 - 07:27 .

[Daidarus]

Deathstroke123 wrote...

You aren't stupid because the ending is meant to be deep; You're stupid because you're taking the ending at face value and completely ignoring all of the games foreshadowing.

Here's some homework: Watch the movies Blade Runner and Minority Report. Both are exemplary sci fi films that the genre proudly embraces, and they have just as open endings as ME3 did.

In all cases, the point is to be interpretive. All the theories being made about the ending is the desired response. It allows people to craft their own canon ending without the ending forcing a canon ending on them. With BR's and MR's ending, the fans saw this and embraced them, coming up with many ideas about what happened after the credits rolled. Each believes their ending to be the correct one, and overall, most people were satisfied.

Then ME3 came out and proved to me once and for all that Bioware fans collectively are pretty ****ing stupid; The ones who came up with and support the Indoctrination Theory are an exception, as they got the point of the ending, to draw upon clues and make your own conclusion. For those with on iota of creativity, this isn't a problem. Others, however, need to be hand held and have every little thing explained to them: Did so and so retire? Did so and so get married? Did so and so get a house on the beach and a puppy? Get ****ing real. Bioware's job isn't to animate your fan fiction.

So now, the consensus of the BSN has forced Biowares hand, and now, to satisfy you petulant whiners, the clarification DLC that they're going to release may very well replace the current ending (in which you actually have to use a scrap of brain power for and think about it) with a cliche "The universe defeats the Reapers with the power of love and friendship and everyone lived idyllic happy little lives for all eternity, the end" ending. GG, guys. GG.

Or, you know, there could be intelligent people who didn't like the problems with plot holes and change of theme from Galaxy VS. Reapers to Organics VS. Synthetics. I might not have even cared about that though if they had explained why that mindset is appropriate throughtout the game, Instead they contradicted themselves with the build up that AI's can be good with EDI/the Geth as examples. Why even do that if you are going to turn around and say that they are all inevitably going to "go evil" anyway? I didn't want a happy ending, I didn't expect a happy ending either. I expected a clear ending that took ALL my decisions into account during the final moments that weren't just numbers on a scoreboard, didn't contradict the series, and didn't change the theme at the last minute.

Good night.

Modifié par Daidarus, 07 mai 2012 - 07:36 .

[Johcande XX]

Nightwriter wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

-sigh-

The problem here is that there are narrative inconsistencies in the ending, which can be easily rectified with minor inferences and speculation. There are individuals who like that sort of thing; however, judging by the threads, most do not.

Pro-ending may infer a winning scenario, while Anti-ending may assume everyone starves. Each groups' speculation pisses off the other, blah blah who cares. If anyone is suggesting that someone "just didn't get it, or didn't put enough thought into it" then they are idiots, and are missing the entire point of an 'open-ended' narrative. There's no right answer, it's the readers' story.

Personally, I don't like the ending. Why? Because it's the ending, . . . THE ending, I was told there'd be more than one. Some say that BW being called lazy set them off, well THE ending is what I would call lazy.

I really have to disagree with this. I like speculating. ME3 doesn't prompt me to speculate. It prompts me to fix it.

Furthermore this series has set up absolutely no groundwork for Inception-esque open-ended speculations. This was never one of those faux intellectual, smugly ambiguous, "no one knows what happened but all answers are right" universes. Not that Inception was one of those.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they TRIED.    Obviously they didn't do it well.

[mauro2222]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Gandalf is a Maiar a servant of the Valar (gods)... he is more powerful than the witch king, but he is just one guy trapped in human form against an army. And the Nazgul are more powerful in Sauron's dominion.

I don't remember that part in the films, I think you're using stuff from the books to try and patch up plot holes.

...no ****

The movies aren't the books. In the books the orcs never entered the city of Minas Tirith at all nor did the elves help the Rohan people.

Modifié par mauro2222, 07 mai 2012 - 07:32 .

[Clayless]

KingKhan03 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Gandalf is a Maiar a servant of the Valar (gods)... he is more powerful than the witch king, but he is just one guy trapped in human form against an army. And the Nazgul are more powerful in Sauron's dominion.

I don't remember that part in the films, I think you're using stuff from the books to try and patch up plot holes.

Aren't the movies based off the books, The books came first.

They're still seperate.

It'd be like ignoring all the massive plot holes in the HP films (how did they get found in a random muggle cafe, which caused them to move around constantly out of fear, and how did Snape find them in the woods, and how did they apparate into the center of a circle of bad guys?) just because the book clears that up.

[Muhkida]

mauro2222 wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

All I recall is something about eagles, then I took a nice 30 minute nap, then I left the theater 

Ah yes, those eagles...  Why Frodo didn't just ride one from the very beginning and just dropped the ring into the volcano from the sky....well that's another topic.

Nazgul and hundreds of fell beasts.

I guess so, but couldn't that be said the same for those eagles.  I would've liked to see some dragon/eagle dog fighting action. 

Also if I remember correctly, those birds are mentioned to be able to outfly the Nazgul in the book.

[KosakNZ]

Deathstroke123 wrote...

I did, I just ignored the bit in the middle which you dropped with no explanation. Is that the part you're hung up about? Tell me then, how did the ending not make sense.

You also ignored the end of the post as well. It's amazing that you responded at all since you were effectively just waffling in my direction for no reason.

It would take awhile to go over all the things that don't make sense, but the starchild and everything he says takes the cake. Lets go over his various positions:

1) The created will always rebel against their creators.
2) My solution is to create a race to kill others races to prevent them creating races that will rebel against them.
3) Obviously my created race wont rebel, because I said so... actually I didn't this is completely glossed over.
4) Synthesis is another solution, by combining synthetic and organic life we solve this whole created vs creator issue. Since obviously no other organic life will ever evolve, and no other synthetic life will ever be created, and the only reason the geth and Quarians ever fought was the synthetic and organicness.
5) Shepard being on the citadel proves my old solution no longer works (why?).

[Clayless]

mauro2222 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Gandalf is a Maiar a servant of the Valar (gods)... he is more powerful than the witch king, but he is just one guy trapped in human form against an army. And the Nazgul are more powerful in Sauron's dominion.

I don't remember that part in the films, I think you're using stuff from the books to try and patch up plot holes.

...no ****

The movies aren't the books. In the books the orcs never entered the city of Minas Tirith at all nor did the elves help the Rohan people.

In other words, they could've caused a distraction and eagled their way to the volcano.

[KingKhan03]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

KingKhan03 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Gandalf is a Maiar a servant of the Valar (gods)... he is more powerful than the witch king, but he is just one guy trapped in human form against an army. And the Nazgul are more powerful in Sauron's dominion.

I don't remember that part in the films, I think you're using stuff from the books to try and patch up plot holes.

Aren't the movies based off the books, The books came first.

They're still seperate.

It'd be like ignoring all the massive plot holes in the HP films (how did they get found in a random muggle cafe, which caused them to move around constantly out of fear, and how did Snape find them in the woods, and how did they apparate into the center of a circle of bad guys?) just because the book clears that up.

Umm what? That's not even right, there is information available for those plotholes in the case of mass effect there is no information available.

If someone wanted those plot holes explained one could direct them to the books for more information, In Mass Effect if someone wants to know why Joker is escaping there is no solid information to inform them.

[xsdob]

balance5050 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

No energy mean no gravitational pull to hold the unconnected pieces together. Thus the inertial force of them spinning and the kinetic force from shooting the large burst of energy made them slowly drift apart in the gravity and friction free environments of space.

College entry level physics make me see it this way.

The energy (several supernovas worth) contained within has to go somewhere though, does the last relay just shoot it out into darkspace?

Could be that the energy inside the relays is used up creating the localized energy field seen, the emp like effect, and that the energy is burned off so rapidly that it leaves the relays literally dead in space in a matter of moments, a few chemicals and espically alkiline metals have this kind of reaction in water, a lot of energy is dispersed in a matter of seconds.

The point is that each relay contains as much energy as a super nova, it won't be "dispersed in a matter of seconds." without frying nearby planets. The energy must be released in the beam if we are to  beleive that the energy wasn't expelled in all directions in an explosion.

I added an aditional sentance after you quoted that part, basically the energy was converted into the effect of the choice made in the ending in a matter of seconds. After which the energy was dispersed and used up rapidly.

I enjoy discussing this with you, I'm actually pleasently surprised at how much I enjoy it.

Modifié par xsdob, 07 mai 2012 - 07:35 .

[mauro2222]

Muhkida wrote...

I guess so, but couldn't that be said the same for those eagles.  I would've liked to see some dragon/eagle dog fighting action. 

Also if I remember correctly, those birds are mentioned to be able to outfly the Nazgul in the book.

Yes, they are able to defeat them, but the fell beast outnumber the eagles by long numbers. Not all the eagles decided to take part in the war.

[balance5050]

Muhkida wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

All I recall is something about eagles, then I took a nice 30 minute nap, then I left the theater 

Ah yes, those eagles...  Why Frodo didn't just ride one from the very beginning and just dropped the ring into the volcano from the sky....well that's another topic.

Nazgul and hundreds of fell beasts.

I guess so, but couldn't that be said the same for those eagles.  I would've liked to see some dragon/eagle dog fighting action. 

Also if I remember correctly, those birds are mentioned to be able to outfly the Nazgul in the book.

You'll see some pretty sweet Eagle action in the upcoming "Hobbit" movies

[mauro2222]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Gandalf is a Maiar a servant of the Valar (gods)... he is more powerful than the witch king, but he is just one guy trapped in human form against an army. And the Nazgul are more powerful in Sauron's dominion.

I don't remember that part in the films, I think you're using stuff from the books to try and patch up plot holes.

...no ****

The movies aren't the books. In the books the orcs never entered the city of Minas Tirith at all nor did the elves help the Rohan people.

In other words, they could've caused a distraction and eagled their way to the volcano.

What part of hundreds of fell beast you aren't getting? and Sauron isn't just a random eye floating in a tower...

And the eagles aren't just animals that Gandalf can summon, lol the eagles even have a king.

Modifié par mauro2222, 07 mai 2012 - 07:37 .

[Muhkida]

mauro2222 wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

I guess so, but couldn't that be said the same for those eagles.  I would've liked to see some dragon/eagle dog fighting action. 

Also if I remember correctly, those birds are mentioned to be able to outfly the Nazgul in the book.

Yes, they are able to defeat them, but the fell beast outnumber the eagles by long numbers. Not all the eagles decided to take part in the war.

I see, didn't know that.

BTW, sorry for directing this thread off topic.... but I learned something new today.

[Deathstroke123]

KosakNZ wrote...

Deathstroke123 wrote...

I did, I just ignored the bit in the middle which you dropped with no explanation. Is that the part you're hung up about? Tell me then, how did the ending not make sense.

You also ignored the end of the post as well. It's amazing that you responded at all since you were effectively just waffling in my direction for no reason.

It would take awhile to go over all the things that don't make sense, but the starchild and everything he says takes the cake. Lets go over his various positions:

1) The created will always rebel against their creators.
2) My solution is to create a race to kill others races to prevent them creating races that will rebel against them.
3) Obviously my created race wont rebel, because I said so... actually I didn't this is completely glossed over.
4) Synthesis is another solution, by combining synthetic and organic life we solve this whole created vs creator issue. Since obviously no other organic life will ever evolve, and no other synthetic life will ever be created, and the only reason the geth and Quarians ever fought was the synthetic and organicness.
5) Shepard being on the citadel proves my old solution no longer works (why?).

Ah, good to see you're thinking about it subjectively. Hmm, yes, quite a few paradoxs there... but who's to say the paradoxs aren't placed for a reason? Who's to say the Reaper leader ISN'T lying to you?

This was my point in the earlier posts. You take these points and you use them to formulate your own ideas on what happened at the end. This has been used in sci fi countless times before, by other remarkable and noteworthy films and books. And this is the purpose of the ending.

Boom. Did I just blow your MIND?

[Nightwriter]

Johcande XX wrote...

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they TRIED.    Obviously they didn't do it well.

I am of the opinion that their skill with the endings is so incongruous with their skill with the previous narrative that it qualifies as proof of temporal distortion.

By this I mean that the Borg or the daleks or Tom Cruise have, without our knowing it, altered the course of history via time travel to achieve their own twisted ends and we are experiencing the resulting anomalies.

Furthermore I submit that Mitt Romney is one other such temporal anomaly.

[Clayless]

Muhkida wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Muhkida wrote...

I guess so, but couldn't that be said the same for those eagles.  I would've liked to see some dragon/eagle dog fighting action. 

Also if I remember correctly, those birds are mentioned to be able to outfly the Nazgul in the book.

Yes, they are able to defeat them, but the fell beast outnumber the eagles by long numbers. Not all the eagles decided to take part in the war.

I see, didn't know that.

BTW, sorry for directing this thread off topic.... but I learned something new today.

As much as it is it's irrelevant to the movie, it has different canon than the books, so it's just pure speculation as to why Gandalf and the rest of them never got on an eagle and delivered it to the volcano, especially as Gandalf could easily repell the fell beasts.

It's the same with Harry Potter. Anyone that's seen the 7th movie; How did Snape find them at random in the woods?

[Deathstroke123]

btw, I like how me and Muhkida completely derailed this thread into a LotR debate.

NEEEEEEEEEEEERDS!

http://enormocast.co...f_The_Nerds.jpg

Modifié par Deathstroke123, 07 mai 2012 - 07:44 .