230 réponses à ce sujet

[kumquats]

StElmo wrote...

I'm yet to see someone who liked the ending on a very basic "yeah I'm satisfied with that" level.

but feel free to prove me wrong!

That's me.
Q.E.D.

Don't know why you need a whole thread for this, but I'm always happy to help.

[rachellouise]

it's not really the ending which I have anything with. It's the epilogue,  the first time I played through (avoiding anything referring to it) I was watching the ending, thinking okay, all this happened immediately after.

Then when grandpa came up, I thought he was going to just sum up what happened in the following years

Modifié par rachellouise, 07 mai 2012 - 09:58 .

[Reorte]

rachellouise wrote...

it's not really the ending which I have anything with. It's the epilogue,  the first time I played through (avoiding anything referring to it) I was watching the ending, thinking okay, all this happened immediately after.

Then when grandpa came up, I thought he was going to just sum up what happened in the following years

I was lucky. The phone rang during the credits and I missed that.

[Reorte]

laecraft wrote...

The ending follows logically from the rest of the game. Just imagine, they're building you-don't-know-what, it works you-don't-know-how, on the off chance it would fix the Reaper problem for them somehow.

Well, it did. With some side effects, but since they never designed the thing in the first place, fully surrendering their fate to the blind chance, it's not like organics can complain about not being in charge of their own fate now.

I suppose there is an idea behind this: if you entrust your fate to an unknown deus ex machina, you can't demand that deus to be kind and do everything as you please.

It's supposed to be a little more than that, after all there's some evidence that it works a bit closer to how you'd like it if you've got a high enough EMS (presumably it's better understood and therefore tuned better if you've got more experts working on it). The whole Crucible is still immensley irritating, lazy, and stupid though.

[Seboist]

The crucible plot is one of the worst plots in gaming bar none. The Triforce in a Zelda game has a better setup than this POS deux ex machina.

[nitefyre410]

Seboist wrote...

The crucible plot is one of the worst plots in gaming bar none. The Triforce in a Zelda game has a better setup than this POS deux ex machina.

  

^ Well, I can't agrue with that - "Hey we found a weapon what does it do?" 
"We don't know lets build it." 

So I'm thinking the game would about you know finding out about the  Crucible what it does and ancient mojo and mystery involved and...how wrong I was... 

Damnit now I am talking about this damn game again... ugghh.  

Modifié par nitefyre410, 07 mai 2012 - 10:19 .

[Cypher_CS]

StElmo wrote...

Strangely enough, this interesting perspective was provided by a reader at IGN, of all places.

au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/122/1221492p1.html#comment-474769355

I don't believe anyone actually liked the ending. People like the fact
that they can claim that it's "deep" and "intelligent" and that other
people just didn't get it. It's a pathetic excuse to pretend they're
smart or insightful.

To be honest, I kind of agree with him. Most people that defend the ending seem to like the fact it is ambiguous and dark.

But just like many things in life, this is driven by the ego (second biggest human motivator, aside from reproduction), the desire to put ones ego above others in an attempt to come accross as insightful or thoughtful.

I'm yet to see someone who liked the ending on a very basic "yeah I'm satisfied with that" level.

but feel free to prove me wrong!

Great post to this thread already:

Animositisomina wrote...

I think Friedrich Nietzsche summed it up best with this:

"Being deep and appearing deep. -- Whoever knows he is deep, strives for clarity; whoever would like to appear deep to the crowd, strives for obscurity.
For the crowd considers anything deep if only it cannot see to the
bottom: the crowd is so timid and afraid of going into the water."

The first half, in bold, applies to this whole mess quite well.

So not only you are using a throwaway theme for making yourself feel better about the existence of people who liked the ending, claiming we are all wannabes or somesuch, you also basically call us... what? Stupid? Fakes?

Instead of arguing to the point - i.e. striving for clarity - you just dismiss us with rhetoric - i.e. basically obscure us?

It's nice to (mis)use a Nietzche quote. But try to understand if first.

[humes spork]

StElmo wrote...

I'm yet to see someone who liked the ending on a very basic "yeah I'm satisfied with that" level.

but feel free to prove me wrong!

Congrats, in your rush to bash the endings and people who like them, you've managed to say something that's almost perfectly analogous to a now-infamous quote by one Colin Moriarty. You might think about that before trying to take any intellectual high ground in this debate, and whether you're managing to comport yourself in a manner that accurately or credibly conveys the points you'd like to make.

Especially when you'd actually have the temerity to include a quote the full context of which is those who would obfuscate the search for truth and knowledge are interested in only power over others, opposed to the former for its own sake. The irony is palpable.

Modifié par humes spork, 07 mai 2012 - 10:32 .

[Bob3terd]

blacqout wrote...

dmonorato wrote...

blacqout wrote...

StElmo wrote...

blacqout wrote...

The only people i see claiming to be somehow better than others in this thread, are those that didn't like the ending.

How so?

You posted a thread attempting to denigrate those of us that were satisfied with the way the game concluded. Basically, you're suggesting that we're all psuedo-intellectuals.

I don't think he's doing that at all, as a matter of fact most of the Pro-end post I have read degenerate into to " if you don't understand the endings your dumb" Usually posted by someone with "Sheppard deserves better fans" in their sig.

We have all seen numerous post (too many to count) on why the endings suck, don't make sense, have plot holes or whatever. What I have yet to see is a post by any pro-ender that explains why they thought the ending was good,and how they were able to explain away all the plot holes and inconsistencies with out massive speculation on what Bioware was attempting to say in thier ending.

That's probably because threads complaining about the endings appear in such vast quantities that those of us that understood not just the ending, but the entire trilogy, are not always around or willing to go over it again for the upteenth time.

I'm yet to see a "plot hole" that can't be explained easily.

You do realise your proving the op right?

[Pelle6666]

The ending is only a deep pile of ****!

[kumquats]

Bob3terd wrote...

You do realise your proving the op right?

No, the OP looks down on people who like the ending.
Like the person you quoted, looks down on people who don't like the ending.

That only proofs that the BSN is full of ****.

[Bob3terd]

kumquats wrote...

Bob3terd wrote...

You do realise your proving the op right?

No, the OP looks down on people who like the ending.
Like the person you quoted, looks down on people who don't like the ending.

That only proofs that the BSN is full of ****.

I know, i dont hold the OP's position i just thought it funny. That some one on this thread of all things, posted that without seeing what he was doing.

[irishScott3]

Cypher_CS wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Strangely enough, this interesting perspective was provided by a reader at IGN, of all places.

au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/122/1221492p1.html#comment-474769355

I don't believe anyone actually liked the ending. People like the fact
that they can claim that it's "deep" and "intelligent" and that other
people just didn't get it. It's a pathetic excuse to pretend they're
smart or insightful.

To be honest, I kind of agree with him. Most people that defend the ending seem to like the fact it is ambiguous and dark.

But just like many things in life, this is driven by the ego (second biggest human motivator, aside from reproduction), the desire to put ones ego above others in an attempt to come accross as insightful or thoughtful.

I'm yet to see someone who liked the ending on a very basic "yeah I'm satisfied with that" level.

but feel free to prove me wrong!

Great post to this thread already:

Animositisomina wrote...

I think Friedrich Nietzsche summed it up best with this:

"Being deep and appearing deep. -- Whoever knows he is deep, strives for clarity; whoever would like to appear deep to the crowd, strives for obscurity.
For the crowd considers anything deep if only it cannot see to the
bottom: the crowd is so timid and afraid of going into the water."

The first half, in bold, applies to this whole mess quite well.

So not only you are using a throwaway theme for making yourself feel better about the existence of people who liked the ending, claiming we are all wannabes or somesuch, you also basically call us... what? Stupid? Fakes?

Instead of arguing to the point - i.e. striving for clarity - you just dismiss us with rhetoric - i.e. basically obscure us?

It's nice to (mis)use a Nietzche quote. But try to understand if first.

Because it's typically useless to argue the point with a pro-ender, as they tend to have little to no argument mixed with condescension.  And yes I classify multi-page arguments based on too many assumptions to count as "little or no argument".  It's like arguing with philosophy majors.  They lose track of scope and start making sweeping irrelevant statements.  Which is probably why a significant number go into politics and law.

Most anti-ending threads consist of directed anger at Bioware for ruining a great series.  Most pro-ending threads consist of condescension and pseudo-philosophy directed squarely at those who dislike the endings; only a scant few have come out supporting Bioware, and more than a few of those are simply poor masks for further condescension. 

So when you have an entire group, the majority of who's arguments are filled with condescension towards another group, the implication is fairly obvious.  It's like people who appreciate simple abstract art, who then get defensive when you say "that's art?  It's just 3 straight lines on a sheet of paper."  These people are generally known as "snobs", and not in an affectionate way.  Sorry, but that's the crowd you're hanging with.

Modifié par irishScott3, 07 mai 2012 - 11:22 .

[kumquats]

Bob3terd wrote...

I know, i dont hold the OP's position i just thought it funny. That some one on this thread of all things, posted that without seeing what he was doing.

The irony isn't lost on me. I just don't want anyone to think for a sec, that looking down on anyone is okay or acceptable.
I'd rather discuss topics with people who can see my point of view and still don't agree with me.
They are cool cats.

I like the ending. I even supported the people who were dissapointed, I never told anyone in the Liara thread to shut up, just because this thread is not the place to discuss this topic. I let them be and I support them.
The OP is just a shame for this community. He wants to provoke with this topic and like you see, he succeeded.

The only thing that's makes me more pissed off then the OP, are the people who support him. Really? You love to look down on other people?
**** me, I think that attitude is disgusting.

[Bob3terd]

kumquats wrote...

Bob3terd wrote...

I know, i dont hold the OP's position i just thought it funny. That some one on this thread of all things, posted that without seeing what he was doing.

The irony isn't lost on me. I just don't want anyone to think for a sec, that looking down on anyone is okay or acceptable.
I'd rather discuss topics with people who can see my point of view and still don't agree with me.
They are cool cats.

I like the ending. I even supported the people who were dissapointed, I never told anyone in the Liara thread to shut up, just because this thread is not the place to discuss this topic. I let them be and I support them.
The OP is just a shame for this community. He wants to provoke with this topic and like you see, he succeeded.

The only thing that's makes me more pissed off then the OP, are the people who support him. Really? You love to look down on other people?
**** me, I think that attitude is disgusting.

Yeah that attitude is in both sides equally, you seen luzarius's posts? In one he accuses all people who didnt like the ending of not understanding the dialogue wheel, he went into an entire post on how the only reason we didnt like the ending was because we didnt use the investigate option (which i did).

Whats annoyed me the most about the ending debacle is not that people disagree with me its that the ending was purposly ambigous, but instead of the desired result all its done it deeply ruptured the fan base.

Modifié par Bob3terd, 07 mai 2012 - 11:40 .

[StrawberryRainPop]

StElmo wrote...

Strangely enough, this interesting perspective was provided by a reader at IGN, of all places.

au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/122/1221492p1.html#comment-474769355

I don't believe anyone actually liked the ending. People like the fact
that they can claim that it's "deep" and "intelligent" and that other
people just didn't get it. It's a pathetic excuse to pretend they're
smart or insightful.

To be honest, I kind of agree with him. Most people that defend the ending seem to like the fact it is ambiguous and dark.

But just like many things in life, this is driven by the ego (second biggest human motivator, aside from reproduction), the desire to put ones ego above others in an attempt to come accross as insightful or thoughtful.

I'm yet to see someone who liked the ending on a very basic "yeah I'm satisfied with that" level.

but feel free to prove me wrong!

Great post to this thread already:

Animositisomina wrote...

I think Friedrich Nietzsche summed it up best with this:

"Being deep and appearing deep. -- Whoever knows he is deep, strives for clarity; whoever would like to appear deep to the crowd, strives for obscurity.
For the crowd considers anything deep if only it cannot see to the
bottom: the crowd is so timid and afraid of going into the water."

The first half, in bold, applies to this whole mess quite well.

Actually, the ending is so dumb and poorly written, anyone who likes it is a pretty obvious sign he/she is pretty dimwitted, or is too young to know a proper narrative.

[humes spork]

irishScott3 wrote...

...It's like arguing with philosophy majors.  They lose track of scope and start making sweeping irrelevant statements. Which is probably why a significant number go into politics and law...

[kumquats]

Bob3terd wrote...

Yeah that attitude is in both sides equally, you seen luzarius's posts? In one he accuses all people who didnt like the ending of not understanding the dialogue wheel, he went into an entire post on how the only reason we didnt like the ending was because we didnt use the investigate option (which i did).

Whats annoyed me the most about the ending debacle is not that people disagree with me its that the ending was purposly ambigous but instead of the desired result all its down it deeply ruptured the fan base.

Yes. I'm deeply concerned about the community. Like it would  be so uncool to stick together.
Reminds me of one of the Liara threads, where one person wrote: " Liara fans made me hate this character." And I just asked: "What did I do?" I didn't even know this user and it seemed that people just have an overall opinion. WTF?!?

I'm a person with my own opinion and I don't want to be put in a box with hateful people. The last time I looked I wasn't assimilated into a Borg collective. >.<

StrawberryRainPop wrote...

Actually, the ending is so dumb
and poorly written, anyone who likes it is a pretty obvious sign he/she
is pretty dimwitted, or is too young to know a proper narrative.

^ Do I need more evidence?

Modifié par kumquats, 07 mai 2012 - 11:52 .

[humes spork]

kumquats wrote...

I'm a person with my own opinion and I don't want to be put in a box with hateful people. The last time I looked I wasn't assimilated into a Borg collective. >.<

The thing is, a lot of the stupid crap would ease up if people would lay off the "my opinion is objective truth" nonsense. Yeah, internet community and all, but stupid is still stupid.

[Robhuzz]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

It's implied by "the arrival" DLC, but, y'know, speculations from everyone!

The relays didn't get smashed into with an asteroid, you know.

They got "whatever" by a being that controls them completely. Do you really expect a controlled destruction to be anywhere near as big as an uncontrolled one?

If you do, take a look at an automobile. Non-diesel of course.


AND, according to Patrick Weekes, a member of Bioware and if I'm not mistaken a writer for ME3, the relays were "deactivated," not what happened in Arrival.

So, no. No speculation here.

I think he played a different game. This does look like rather permanent 'deactivation'.

Let the speculation continue. Wait, no need. They just retconned the entire thing so they used a special kind of space magic to prevent the relays from going supernova.

[Trebor1969]

StElmo wrote...

Animositisomina wrote...

I think Friedrich Nietzsche summed it up best with this:

"Being deep and appearing deep. -- Whoever knows he is deep, strives for clarity; whoever would like to appear deep to the crowd, strives for obscurity. For the crowd considers anything deep if only it cannot see to the bottom: the crowd is so timid and afraid of going into the water."

The first half, in bold, applies to this whole mess quite well.

Genius quote, thanks man, love it!

+1

[Cypher_CS]

humes spork wrote...

irishScott3 wrote...

...It's like arguing with philosophy majors.  They lose track of scope and start making sweeping irrelevant statements. Which is probably why a significant number go into politics and law...

Couldn't you find a picture with a Kettle and a Pot?

[Zix13]

humes spork wrote...

irishScott3 wrote...

...It's like arguing with philosophy majors.  They lose track of scope and start making sweeping irrelevant statements. Which is probably why a significant number go into politics and law...

XD

[rachellouise]

Robhuzz wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

It's implied by "the arrival" DLC, but, y'know, speculations from everyone!

The relays didn't get smashed into with an asteroid, you know.

They got "whatever" by a being that controls them completely. Do you really expect a controlled destruction to be anywhere near as big as an uncontrolled one?

If you do, take a look at an automobile. Non-diesel of course.


AND, according to Patrick Weekes, a member of Bioware and if I'm not mistaken a writer for ME3, the relays were "deactivated," not what happened in Arrival.

So, no. No speculation here.

I think he played a different game. This does look like rather permanent 'deactivation'.

Let the speculation continue. Wait, no need. They just retconned the entire thing so they used a special kind of space magic to prevent the relays from going supernova.

That doesn't happen with control
http://www.youtube.c...JUlD8nmQ#t=128s