275 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You're at a concert. You paid $125 per ticket to see the artist. Great concert for 80 minutes. The band completely screws the pooch for the last 10 minutes of the 90 minute set. What are you going to go home remembering?

[CSunkyst]

shurikenmanta wrote...

CSunkyst wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...


Read what I've actually been saying rather than project your distaste with ending-likers onto me, then try again. I never said you had to like the ending. I said that you can choose whether or not to throw 100 hours of fun out the window based off that, and I stand by it, and I don't particularly care how dumb you think it is.

Ready for some heartattack-inducing news? I didn't like the ending. I didn't know *what* to think after it. I was disappointed. But then I realised that for 90 hours, I had the ride of my life.

It was 100 hours leading to something, you can't just divorce the rest of the story from it's climax, IMO the most important aspect of a story.  This isn't a bad episode of M.A.S.H.  This is an epic work of fiction with a tragic yet fatal flaw.  It CAN'T be separated.  The Titanic was a tragedy, not a pleasant journey with a minor little bump at the end that we can all ignore. 

And yet I enjoyed the story without liking the ending.

Guess I'm just a braindead casual, eh?

???  Why should I care if you liked the story or not?  I even love many a casual game.  You're the one telling us we can "choose" to like somethin that we found horribly horribly awful, and I'm merely trying to explain to you that it's not a "choice" For me the ending is kind of the entire point of the journey in the first place, and if the ending sucks, that ruins the journey for me, and I can't "choose" to feel otherwise.

Modifié par CSunkyst, 07 mai 2012 - 03:15 .

[shurikenmanta]

CSunkyst wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

CSunkyst wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...


Read what I've actually been saying rather than project your distaste with ending-likers onto me, then try again. I never said you had to like the ending. I said that you can choose whether or not to throw 100 hours of fun out the window based off that, and I stand by it, and I don't particularly care how dumb you think it is.

Ready for some heartattack-inducing news? I didn't like the ending. I didn't know *what* to think after it. I was disappointed. But then I realised that for 90 hours, I had the ride of my life.

It was 100 hours leading to something, you can't just divorce the rest of the story from it's climax, IMO the most important aspect of a story.  This isn't a bad episode of M.A.S.H.  This is an epic work of fiction with a tragic yet fatal flaw.  It CAN'T be separated.  The Titanic was a tragedy, not a pleasant journey with a minor little bump at the end that we can all ignore. 

And yet I enjoyed the story without liking the ending.

Guess I'm just a braindead casual, eh?

???  Why should I care if you liked the story or not?  I even love many a casual game.  You're the one telling us we can "choose" to like somethin that we found horribly horribly awful, and I'm merely trying to explain to you that it's not a "choice"

But you can choose. Like I said, like you, I disliked the ending. I sat down and really thought about the experience I had, and I decided that the fun I had over the past ninety hours outshadowed a not-so-good ending and I wouldn't allow it to be ruined for me.

Maybe I'm just less emotional than most, I don't know.

[FatalX7.0]

shurikenmanta wrote...

CSunkyst wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

CSunkyst wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...


Read what I've actually been saying rather than project your distaste with ending-likers onto me, then try again. I never said you had to like the ending. I said that you can choose whether or not to throw 100 hours of fun out the window based off that, and I stand by it, and I don't particularly care how dumb you think it is.

Ready for some heartattack-inducing news? I didn't like the ending. I didn't know *what* to think after it. I was disappointed. But then I realised that for 90 hours, I had the ride of my life.

It was 100 hours leading to something, you can't just divorce the rest of the story from it's climax, IMO the most important aspect of a story.  This isn't a bad episode of M.A.S.H.  This is an epic work of fiction with a tragic yet fatal flaw.  It CAN'T be separated.  The Titanic was a tragedy, not a pleasant journey with a minor little bump at the end that we can all ignore. 

And yet I enjoyed the story without liking the ending.

Guess I'm just a braindead casual, eh?

???  Why should I care if you liked the story or not?  I even love many a casual game.  You're the one telling us we can "choose" to like somethin that we found horribly horribly awful, and I'm merely trying to explain to you that it's not a "choice"

But you can choose. Like I said, like you, I disliked the ending. I sat down and really thought about the experience I had, and I decided that the fun I had over the past ninety hours outshadowed a not-so-good ending and I wouldn't allow it to be ruined for me.

Maybe I'm just less emotional than most, I don't know.

<_<

[Averdi]

shurikenmanta wrote...

And yet I enjoyed the story without liking the ending.

Guess I'm just a braindead casual, eh?

Liking the story despite the ending is one thing.  Taking the position, as I interpreted yours, that people who dislike the story largely because of the ending can choose to alter that emotional response is something else again.  Frankly, I think the idea that one could do so is pretty extraordinary.

[shurikenmanta]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

You're at a concert. You paid $125 per ticket to see the artist. Great concert for 80 minutes. The band completely screws the pooch for the last 10 minutes of the 90 minute set. What are you going to go home remembering?

I actually was in that experience. I remembered all of it, but the fond memories of the 80 minutes outweighed the disappointment of the 10.

[shurikenmanta]

Averdi wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

And yet I enjoyed the story without liking the ending.

Guess I'm just a braindead casual, eh?

Liking the story despite the ending is one thing.  Taking the position, as I interpreted yours, that people who dislike the story largely because of the ending can choose to alter that emotional response is something else again.  Frankly, I think the idea that one could do so is pretty extraordinary.

Well, I can only go off my experience, which was that on actually thinking about it after the initial disappointment, I still found the story by and large to be enjoyable.

Maybe I'm lucky or something.

[Hihoshi101]

For those that say it is not the Ending it is the journey...
I say the ending has to make the journey worth it. So yes by having the Reapers hand us a 'victory' it made the journey worthless. We spend the game make sacrifices and I expected Shepard to die and that the end would justify the means.

[CSunkyst]

Let me repost what I edited into my last comment after you quoted me...

For me the ending is kind of the entire point of the journey in the first place, and if the ending sucks, that ruins the journey for me, and I can't "choose" to feel otherwise.

The ending is too important. You're just going to have to accept that for a whole lot of people we can't ignore it. Nor should we have to. I'm not going to gloss over that just because I'm desperate not to lose a beloved franchise. What's done is done and sadly Mass Effect is now dead to me.

[shurikenmanta]

CSunkyst wrote...

Let me repost what I edited into my last comment after you quoted me...

For me the ending is kind of the entire point of the journey in the first place, and if the ending sucks, that ruins the journey for me, and I can't "choose" to feel otherwise.

The ending is too important. You're just going to have to accept that for a whole lot of people we can't ignore it. Nor should we have to. I'm not going to gloss over that just because I'm desperate not to lose a beloved franchise. What's done is done and sadly Mass Effect is now dead to me.

Fair enough. I think part of the problem is that both sides present their arguments as objective - 'the ending is ruined for everyone, period' and 'no it's not, period'. Like I said, maybe I've got a different outlook on the whole thing to most, I do tend to be a bit of a disgusting optimist at times.

[Varus Praetor]

The last 10 minutes can ruin a date....particularly if you sneeze in her mouth.

Games are the same way. A horrifying enough moment can spoil the whole, regardless of how good the rest was.

[Abreu Road]

shurikenmanta wrote...

iakus wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

If you let it.

You don't choose what you like or dislike.    Many of us find the ending aesthetically displeasing, ugly, so bad that it eclipses all the fun that came before it.  I can''t go back to the game knowing what oies at the end, knowing that all the preparation, all the dialogue, all the events that took place across the entire trilogy amounts to nothing.  Pwning Cerbies smply isnt' enough for me

I'm not "letting it" spoil the game.  I want to enjoy the game.  But I cannot.  I can't even go back to the other ME games.  I can't go on that journey knowing where it ends.

Yes, you can. I did. Now I'm guessing I'm not all that different from the average human here.

Ok, you did.

But other's didn't. A lot of people tried but at the end they can't separate 100 fantastic hours from 5 cluster****ing minutes. This thing about what matters is the journey doesn't always work.

Look, if it were that easy, most people here would do it. Trust me, I'm one of them. I would love to think about ME3 and have only good memories about it, but I can't. There is always Star Brat and brain dead retarded Shepard at the end of the journey. I can remember Mordin's beautiful redemption and Wrex calling me his brother, but I will also remember that later I had to watch everything possibly exploding on supernovas and think that Tali and Garrus died on starvation.

Modifié par Abreu Road, 07 mai 2012 - 03:25 .

[Iakus]

shurikenmanta wrote...

But surely that's evidence that while the last ten minutes can ruin the game for some, it can't ruin it for everyone, right?

That's the issue I have - presenting subjectivity as objectivity.

You were implying that disliking the game is some flaw that can be overcome if we simply will it so.  Like it's nothing more than an obnoxious commercial interrupting our favorite show.  

Some people can overlook the ending.  A few even seem to like it, though I can't understand how.  But while it's subjective whether the ending ruins the game, it's pretty objective that it did for a lot of people.

[shurikenmanta]

iakus wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

But surely that's evidence that while the last ten minutes can ruin the game for some, it can't ruin it for everyone, right?

That's the issue I have - presenting subjectivity as objectivity.

You were implying that disliking the game is some flaw that can be overcome if we simply will it so.  Like it's nothing more than an obnoxious commercial interrupting our favorite show.  

Some people can overlook the ending.  A few even seem to like it, though I can't understand how.  But while it's subjective whether the ending ruins the game, it's pretty objective that it did for a lot of people.

I don't know if I'd call it a flaw as such. That's got fairly negative connotations. But point taken.

[richard_rider]

Just started playing 1 and 2 again, haven't replayed ME3 since my 2nd play through a couple of weeks ago. I thought it would get easier, but it doesn't.

It helps if you separate the first 2 games, and convince yourself that the 3rd one doesn't exist yet...

[Taboo]

I doubt I would have remembered The Odyssey if Odysseus had a stroke and died on Ithaca's beach.

Don't worry though. His. Journey. Was. EPIC.

[Lookout1390]

richard_rider wrote...

Just started playing 1 and 2 again, haven't replayed ME3 since my 2nd play through a couple of weeks ago. I thought it would get easier, but it doesn't.

It helps if you separate the first 2 games, and convince yourself that the 3rd one doesn't exist yet...

I used to lose sleep over how excited I was for ME3.

Couple of weeks before March 6th were just unbearable.

For a couple of nights after I beat it, I lost sleep.

I'll admit, I was actually in a state of denial, I felt pitiful.

Though, time mends all wounds... 

[shurikenmanta]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I doubt I would have remembered The Odyssey if Odysseus had a stroke and died on Ithaca's beach.

Don't worry though. His. Journey. Was. EPIC.

Am I a horrible person for thinking that was pretty funny?

[Taboo]

shurikenmanta wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I doubt I would have remembered The Odyssey if Odysseus had a stroke and died on Ithaca's beach.

Don't worry though. His. Journey. Was. EPIC.

Am I a horrible person for thinking that was pretty funny?

No.

Because it's true.

Understanding the nature of psychology in narrative is something Bioware should know.

ALAS.

[Voods07]

crimzontearz wrote...

it can....deal with it

thanks to the ending I am physically unable to replay the game.....what does that tell you?

^ This, haven't double-clicked that Mass Effect 3 icon since March 9th.

[shadowreflexion]

 How you finish something, anything can have an effect on the complete experience. Say you started eating a croissant, it's great and right when you're about to finish it, you turn it over and notice mold at the end. Do you remember enjoying it or the mold? Let's say that you're about to be intimate, the foreplay was great but the actual act was akward. What would you remember? Better yet, you read a book and loved it. They make a movie out of it and they stick to the story 100%. When you get to the end, they completely add something that's nowhere to be found in the book. What would you remember?

[Ghostano]

If it is just a shoot everything in sight game maybe the last 10 mins will not effect anything. For me a story driven game the last 10 mins can kill the replay ablity of a game easy. Part of the fun was doing different things and seeing how it effects the story. In the end like most things in life what effects one person does not another person.

I think if we could make ourselves like anything then the game ET would not have almost killed video games and Howard the Duck could be considered the best movie ever. Bullet Witch could be considered the best shooter ever.

Given the combat and style is so different I can play the orginal Mass Effect and that ending is far better since I never learn what becomes of everyone. The again I was never that big of a fan of EA's Mass Effect though I did think they did well at the beginning of ME 3 but after geth/qurians just went downhill for me.

[Blue Liara]

If the last ten minutes can't ruin a game. Why did the last the minute ruin ME3 for me.

Have I been indoctrinated?

[DTKT]

It doesn't "ruin" the entire game. Rannoch and Tutchanka are still awesome moments.

But it does leave me with a bitter taste. And that's not something you want out of the last 5 mins of the game.