245 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yes , it does. If he had control before...Why not open the relay. He's an AI. It would take him micro second to go through the system his race made ifhe had access.Put, theirs the hole possibility with the fight with Saren  which would give him more time to open the relay as well. Also, Ash is not a tech expert. 

 (4:00)

Kaiden says the exact same thing as Ashley and he is a Sentinel with a richer experiance in the tech field. Now the characters within the universe establish Sovereign had control at one point of the Citadel and that he could regain control again so they need take haste in their actions.

Appearently Sovereign needs time to access the system given what Saren said. Really how much more does this dead horse need to be beat?

When is it implied Sovergin need more time?

[Jagri]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yes , it does. If he had control before...Why not open the relay. He's an AI. It would take him micro second to go through the system his race made ifhe had access.Put, theirs the hole possibility with the fight with Saren  which would give him more time to open the relay as well. Also, Ash is not a tech expert. 

 (4:00)

Kaiden says the exact same thing as Ashley and he is a Sentinel with a richer experiance in the tech field. Now the characters within the universe establish Sovereign had control at one point of the Citadel and that he could regain control again so they need take haste in their actions.

Appearently Sovereign needs time to access the system given what Saren said. Really how much more does this dead horse need to be beat?

When is it implied Sovergin need more time?

"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"

[incinerator950]

Implying Drew was going to let you lose.

[dreman9999]

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yes , it does. If he had control before...Why not open the relay. He's an AI. It would take him micro second to go through the system his race made ifhe had access.Put, theirs the hole possibility with the fight with Saren  which would give him more time to open the relay as well. Also, Ash is not a tech expert. 

 (4:00)

Kaiden says the exact same thing as Ashley and he is a Sentinel with a richer experiance in the tech field. Now the characters within the universe establish Sovereign had control at one point of the Citadel and that he could regain control again so they need take haste in their actions.

Appearently Sovereign needs time to access the system given what Saren said. Really how much more does this dead horse need to be beat?

When is it implied Sovergin need more time?

"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"

Then he still didn't have access to the system yet. That still means Saren closed the relay to the citadel. The only thingyour right about is that Saren finished letting him in. Sovergin still didn't have control yet.

[Hakuthehedgehog]

Sovereign needed time to ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of the citadel, I don't see where's the problem...

[Jagri]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yes , it does. If he had control before...Why not open the relay. He's an AI. It would take him micro second to go through the system his race made ifhe had access.Put, theirs the hole possibility with the fight with Saren  which would give him more time to open the relay as well. Also, Ash is not a tech expert. 

 (4:00)

Kaiden says the exact same thing as Ashley and he is a Sentinel with a richer experiance in the tech field. Now the characters within the universe establish Sovereign had control at one point of the Citadel and that he could regain control again so they need take haste in their actions.

Appearently Sovereign needs time to access the system given what Saren said. Really how much more does this dead horse need to be beat?

When is it implied Sovergin need more time?

"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"

Then he still didn't have access to the system yet. That still means Saren closed the relay to the citadel. The only thingyour right about is that Saren finished letting him in. Sovergin still didn't have control yet.

Keyword: Full Control

Sovereign had access to the Citadel and was in the process of assuming complete and full control. Shepard defeats Saren as always in the nick of time and uses Vigils code to take control away from Sovereign. Squad tells Shepard to do this as quickly as possiable before Sovereign can regain control of the systems.
 
This isn't just one computer but a network of millions if not billions of systems not to mention the fact some systems likely haven't been activated in over 50,000 years.

Modifié par Jagri, 07 mai 2012 - 07:44 .

[dreman9999]

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yes , it does. If he had control before...Why not open the relay. He's an AI. It would take him micro second to go through the system his race made ifhe had access.Put, theirs the hole possibility with the fight with Saren  which would give him more time to open the relay as well. Also, Ash is not a tech expert. 

 (4:00)

Kaiden says the exact same thing as Ashley and he is a Sentinel with a richer experiance in the tech field. Now the characters within the universe establish Sovereign had control at one point of the Citadel and that he could regain control again so they need take haste in their actions.

Appearently Sovereign needs time to access the system given what Saren said. Really how much more does this dead horse need to be beat?

When is it implied Sovergin need more time?

"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"

Then he still didn't have access to the system yet. That still means Saren closed the relay to the citadel. The only thingyour right about is that Saren finished letting him in. Sovergin still didn't have control yet.

Keyword: Full Control

Sovereign had access to the Citadel and was in the process of assuming complete and full control. Shepard defeats Saren as always in the nick of time and uses Vigils code to take control away from Sovereign. Squad tells Shepard to do this as quickly as possiable before Sovereign can regain control of the systems.

Key praise...Just got control.
The arguement is about if the reapers could esilly gain control the the citadel and closes relays.  You gone off track. I'm argueing that they need someone inside to let them in, which is what you brought up as well. Saren let Sovergin in the citadel systems.This is a arguement on why the reapers did not close the relays when the got the citadel.
Point being that Sovegn didn't close the relay to the citadel and they reapers need someone let them in form the inside to get in the system.

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 mai 2012 - 07:50 .

[PsyrenY]

And even if they had an insider, we still don't know what Vigil's program actually did. And I'm willing to bet that Sovereign didn't know either.

[Jagri]

dreman9999 wrote...
Key praise...Just got control.
The arguement is about if the reapers could esilly gain control the the citadel and closes relays.  You gone off track. I'm argueing that they need someone inside to let them in, which is what you brought up as well. Saren let Sovergin in the citadel systems.This is a arguement on why the reapers did not close the relays when the got the citadel.
Point being that Sovegn didn't close the relay to the citadel and they reapers need someone let them in form the inside to get in the system.

Actually you moved this off topic from the first few replies you made regarding my clarification of this point I believe on page 6.

"Correct me if I am wrong but Shepard uploaded the code given to him/her by Vigil to disrupt Sovereign's control of the Citadel."

From there you denied Sovereign ever having any measure of control of the Citadel and argue with what Vigil's code/virus did or does. Now that I have provided character dialog, game narrative, and clarification it does seem my original point was correct.

Final point: 
Vigil's Code: Temporarily gains control of Citadel from Sovereign / Sovereign was in the process of assuming nearly full control of the station before stopped.

Modifié par Jagri, 07 mai 2012 - 08:10 .

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yes , it does. If he had control before...Why not open the relay. He's an AI. It would take him micro second to go through the system his race made ifhe had access.Put, theirs the hole possibility with the fight with Saren  which would give him more time to open the relay as well. Also, Ash is not a tech expert. 

 (4:00)

Kaiden says the exact same thing as Ashley and he is a Sentinel with a richer experiance in the tech field. Now the characters within the universe establish Sovereign had control at one point of the Citadel and that he could regain control again so they need take haste in their actions.

Appearently Sovereign needs time to access the system given what Saren said. Really how much more does this dead horse need to be beat?

When is it implied Sovergin need more time?

"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"

Then he still didn't have access to the system yet. That still means Saren closed the relay to the citadel. The only thingyour right about is that Saren finished letting him in. Sovergin still didn't have control yet.

Full access

[Kulthar Drax]

humes spork wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

TIM is indoctrinated. He is already indoctrinated and has been since the First Contact War (source, Mass Effect: Evolution). The "Reaper signal" Henry Lawson figures out how to usurp is for controlling non-autonomous forces; that is to say, husks. It doesn't matter whether orders to Cerberus forces come from him or the Reapers directly, because as an indoctrinated TIM serves Reaper interests, and one way or another Reaper interests are in the long run served.

That TIM is indoctrinated long before the events of Mass Effect 3 is not speculation. That is explicit, in a source that is canon.

No you're missing my point, which is the reapers don't take the Citadel. They could have used their own reapers agents, or they could have used Cerberus, I don't care. But there's no explanation for why the reapers didn't take the citadel. 

Seriously? "They could have used Cerberus" to retake the Citadel, but they didn't [or didn't try]?

I haven't read the books, and I should not be required to read the books in order to get information like "the Illusive Man is indoctrinated". It should be included, even if only a small paragraph somewhere, under TIM's Codex profile ingame. I don't believe he is indoctrinated anyway, as otherwise it renders the whole of ME2 largely senseless.

Assuming he is indoctrinated, why does he then fight the Collectors and try to stop the Reapers? Why does he resurrect Shepard and build him a new ship, finance a whole team etc to stop the Collectors (aka the Reapers, which TIM already knows), especially after it is known that Harbinger was trying to acquire Shepard's corpse and this means TIM actively opposed the Reapers plans. Indoctrination, according to the Codex, does not stretch out for 30 years or more (back to the first contact war). It occurs over a matter of days, or weeks.

[KingZayd]

Kulthar Drax wrote...

humes spork wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

TIM is indoctrinated. He is already indoctrinated and has been since the First Contact War (source, Mass Effect: Evolution). The "Reaper signal" Henry Lawson figures out how to usurp is for controlling non-autonomous forces; that is to say, husks. It doesn't matter whether orders to Cerberus forces come from him or the Reapers directly, because as an indoctrinated TIM serves Reaper interests, and one way or another Reaper interests are in the long run served.

That TIM is indoctrinated long before the events of Mass Effect 3 is not speculation. That is explicit, in a source that is canon.

No you're missing my point, which is the reapers don't take the Citadel. They could have used their own reapers agents, or they could have used Cerberus, I don't care. But there's no explanation for why the reapers didn't take the citadel. 

Seriously? "They could have used Cerberus" to retake the Citadel, but they didn't [or didn't try]?

I haven't read the books, and I should not be required to read the books in order to get information like "the Illusive Man is indoctrinated". It should be included, even if only a small paragraph somewhere, under TIM's Codex profile ingame. I don't believe he is indoctrinated anyway, as otherwise it renders the whole of ME2 largely senseless.

Assuming he is indoctrinated, why does he then fight the Collectors and try to stop the Reapers? Why does he resurrect Shepard and build him a new ship, finance a whole team etc to stop the Collectors (aka the Reapers, which TIM already knows), especially after it is known that Harbinger was trying to acquire Shepard's corpse and this means TIM actively opposed the Reapers plans. Indoctrination, according to the Codex, does not stretch out for 30 years or more (back to the first contact war). It occurs over a matter of days, or weeks.

He is indoctrinated a little. But personally I think certainly during ME2, and at the start of ME3 he's been resisting it.

As for the books giving you extra information: If they didn't what would be the point of them? If you don't want to read them, read the summary on wikipedia or something.

[felipejiraya]

Delete this please.

Modifié par felipejiraya, 07 mai 2012 - 08:33 .

[KingZayd]

felipejiraya wrote...

Delete this please.

it was a funny picture though

[JPN17]

humes spork wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

TIM is indoctrinated. He is already indoctrinated and has been since the First Contact War (source, Mass Effect: Evolution). The "Reaper signal" Henry Lawson figures out how to usurp is for controlling non-autonomous forces; that is to say, husks. It doesn't matter whether orders to Cerberus forces come from him or the Reapers directly, because as an indoctrinated TIM serves Reaper interests, and one way or another Reaper interests are in the long run served.

That TIM is indoctrinated long before the events of Mass Effect 3 is not speculation. That is explicit, in a source that is canon.

No you're missing my point, which is the reapers don't take the Citadel. They could have used their own reapers agents, or they could have used Cerberus, I don't care. But there's no explanation for why the reapers didn't take the citadel. 

Seriously? "They could have used Cerberus" to retake the Citadel, but they didn't [or didn't try]?

And for the last time, you're missing the point. Come back when you actually understand what I'm saying.

[Applepie_Svk]

There is only three possibile answers :
1. Deus Ex - Aka GODCHILD - actualy happened, which is little bit conflicting with self-preservation of what was told to us about Reapers since ME1

2. Deus Ex - Aka GODCHILD - were certain what will happen and child lied to you on purpose (because he was afraid of loosing Reapers), if you picked blue/green ending than you will loose. If you picked red you will sacrifice Citadel and Reapers around Earth but other Reapers will survive.

3. IT - whole ending was a try to indoctrination of Sheppard and noone of that happened, so there is more than possibile they can be defeated by convetional way. It means there is not so much Reapers as was supposed to be. It could be also reason why they hit with everything what they got all important homeworlds.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 07 mai 2012 - 09:44 .

[Hogge87]

dreman9999 wrote...

 The thing I'm pointing out is that, we never seethe reapers glass a planet or bombard it to nothing. With the reapers numbers and force they can do it with easy.
Also, the reaper never use germ warfare, which they can easilly do with the history with manipulating flesh. They also shownthat they can do this on Mordin's recuit mission with the omega plague and at that it it was used only to test organics.They can make a new version that can effect all races.
And then they are never seen using warp bomb tech. With the destruction of the mass relay in Arrival, one would think they could take something tha destructive and reifine it....In can be used to destroy planets...

Just a thing I want to point out to people who think we can win convetionally.

Their goal is not to destroy all life.
They want to harvest life and preserve lesser races.

I haven't really gone through the Codex, but at what point is it stated that the Reapers have weapons that can glass planets?

[dreman9999]

Hogge87 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

 The thing I'm pointing out is that, we never seethe reapers glass a planet or bombard it to nothing. With the reapers numbers and force they can do it with easy.
Also, the reaper never use germ warfare, which they can easilly do with the history with manipulating flesh. They also shownthat they can do this on Mordin's recuit mission with the omega plague and at that it it was used only to test organics.They can make a new version that can effect all races.
And then they are never seen using warp bomb tech. With the destruction of the mass relay in Arrival, one would think they could take something tha destructive and reifine it....In can be used to destroy planets...

Just a thing I want to point out to people who think we can win convetionally.

Their goal is not to destroy all life.
They want to harvest life and preserve lesser races.

I haven't really gone through the Codex, but at what point is it stated that the Reapers have weapons that can glass planets?

Their cannons. It's not an instant glass. They would just put a put a fleet over a hemisphere and blast till nothing is left. Think how planets are glassed in Halo. And my point is gear to the fact the reapers are trying to havest use. My question is not "why don't they kill us off with ease when the have the power", it's "does anyone else see that they can kill us all of with ease".

[dreman9999]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

There is only three possibile answers :
1. Deus Ex - Aka GODCHILD - actualy happened, which is little bit conflicting with self-preservation of what was told to us about Reapers since ME1

2. Deus Ex - Aka GODCHILD - were certain what will happen and child lied to you on purpose (because he was afraid of loosing Reapers), if you picked blue/green ending than you will loose. If you picked red you will sacrifice Citadel and Reapers around Earth but other Reapers will survive.

3. IT - whole ending was a try to indoctrination of Sheppard and noone of that happened, so there is more than possibile they can be defeated by convetional way. It means there is not so much Reapers as was supposed to be. It could be also reason why they hit with everything what they got all important homeworlds.

None of this has anything to do with my question.

Modifié par dreman9999, 08 mai 2012 - 03:58 .

[Applepie_Svk]

dreman9999 wrote...
None of this has anything to do with my question.

Yes and No, 
NO: Yes ending it´s different question which will answered in EC, and if you took endig apart from whole story than yes it has nothing to do with your question.

YES: If we are taking ending as part of events which have impact on Reapers than it has more than you can immagine to do with your question. Remember what sad Vendetta, there was countless cycles and model is still same - Civilization flourish to be harvested. Even Harbringer and Sovereign sad something similiar, that they are our only hope.

Why did they just don´t use full strenght against us ?
They were too confident in their succes, too desperate, too blind to face the truth (that we are gathering out there army to face them) too busy with harvesting of our species or there was lesser truth - it was lie whole time, that size of their army is so great that we cannot even immagine .) Only fact which support this is they start with wide invasion which allocate their forces and their attack that become less effective. Yes they conquered few homeworlds but all what remains from fleets run away and start hiding until the final push. 

What´s repeated in every cycle until this was also locking the relay network, but this cycle it never happened because Reapers cannot shut down from some reason Relay network. If they did than all homerolds were already in ashes and Reapers could probably preparing for next worlds but they didn´t

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 08 mai 2012 - 07:56 .

[dreman9999]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
None of this has anything to do with my question.

Yes and No, 
NO: Yes ending it´s different question which will answered in EC, and if you took endig apart from whole story than yes it has nothing to do with your question.

YES: If we are taking ending as part of events which have impact on Reapers than it has more than you can immagine to do with your question. Remember what sad Vendetta, there was countless cycles and model is still same - Civilization flourish to be harvested. Even Harbringer and Sovereign sad something similiar, that they are our only hope.

Why did they just don´t use full strenght against us ?
They were too confident in their succes, too desperate, too blind to face the truth (that we are gathering out there army to face them) too busy with harvesting of our species or there was lesser truth - it was lie whole time, that size of their army is so great that we cannot even immagine .) Only fact which support this is they start with wide invasion which allocate their forces and their attack that become less effective. Yes they conquered few homeworlds but all what remains from fleets run away and start hiding until the final push. 

What´s repeated in every cycle until this was also locking the relay network, but this cycle it never happened because Reapers cannot shut down from some reason Relay network. If they did than all homerolds were already in ashes and Reapers could probably preparing for next worlds but they didn´t

But this has nothing to do with the ending.