245 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
And yet he still need Saren to over ride the keepers. I would say that he was only there to get into the system once eveny thing was open to his so he can lock all the relay once it open to him...It was not open to him yet. If it was, he would open the citadel realy. If he was connect to the system like you said he was, the battle would of already be lost.

Sigh. He needed Saren to make sure he could get in.

Which is my point. He is not in yet and need someone to let him in. Meaning he does not have control of the relays or citadel yet. If the relay is locked...It's Saren that did it. 

Which is why Shepard is able to unlock them using the same console.

[The Angry One]

dreman9999 wrote...

1.The conversation with hachett before going after cerberus.

Does not say the Citadel is defenceless.

2. The citadel fleet is from eveny council fleet in the galxey. Of course it has somthing to do with the citadel fleet.

Leaving the Citadel defenceless would be idiotic. The Citadel Defence Force includes the Citadel fleet.

3. Point being that they needed some at the system to let them in....Which is why they can just get into the system

Minutes. They needed minutes.

[incinerator950]

KingZayd wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Because he was like that throughout the game? No. He was doing his own thing at first. He wasn't always a pawn of the reapers.

No, its been generaly accepted that TIM has been indoctrinated to some degree after ME 2.  Probably from the Reaper tech sitting in his base.  

To SOME degree. He wasn't the reapers' female dog (I'm not sure if that word is allowed?) until nearer the end of the game. Watch the videos in Cerberus base about 15 mins in: 


in fact I believe the reaper taint was introduced in Mass Effect Evolution. He's just been fighting it all this time.

I've watched them all already.  I'm making the point that Indoctrination is subtle.  The entire point of Cerberus fighting the Alliance and the Council in ME 3 was because they were indoctrinated (along with other poorly constructed reasons.)  Indoctrination is subtle, first becoming sutble hints, insideous enough that it makes you think you're doing the right thing, but you're not.

The Cerberus coup was an attempt to disrupt the balance of the Citadel, even force a take over.  Anything the Reapers don't have to do or makes it easier for them.

[The Angry One]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
And yet he still need Saren to over ride the keepers. I would say that he was only there to get into the system once eveny thing was open to his so he can lock all the relay once it open to him...It was not open to him yet. If it was, he would open the citadel realy. If he was connect to the system like you said he was, the battle would of already be lost.

Sigh. He needed Saren to make sure he could get in.

Which is my point. He is not in yet and need someone to let him in. Meaning he does not have control of the relays or citadel yet. If the relay is locked...It's Saren that did it. 

Which is why Shepard is able to unlock them using the same console.

Using a virus designed to usurp control of Citadel systems.

[dreman9999]

Kanaris wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
And yet he still need Saren to over ride the keepers. I would say that he was only there to get into the system once eveny thing was open to his so he can lock all the relay once it open to him...It was not open to him yet. If it was, he would open the citadel realy. If he was connect to the system like you said he was, the battle would of already be lost.

Sigh. He needed Saren to make sure he could get in.

Exactly Saren and the Geths only role was to make sure the races in the Citatel COULDN'T close the citadel arms before Soverign could get inside.

No, their goal was to lethim in and bypss the system. If Sovergin had acsess to the system when he conneted to the relay, the reapers would be there in Mass already....
Saren was still trying to let Sovergin in the system when Shep came up....http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eE3TkgitCV8#t=205s

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
And yet he still need Saren to over ride the keepers. I would say that he was only there to get into the system once eveny thing was open to his so he can lock all the relay once it open to him...It was not open to him yet. If it was, he would open the citadel realy. If he was connect to the system like you said he was, the battle would of already be lost.

Sigh. He needed Saren to make sure he could get in.

Which is my point. He is not in yet and need someone to let him in. Meaning he does not have control of the relays or citadel yet. If the relay is locked...It's Saren that did it. 

Which is why Shepard is able to unlock them using the same console.

Using a virus designed to usurp control of Citadel systems.

Which is another reason why the reaper can't just take the citadel.

[The Angry One]

dreman9999 wrote...

Which is another reason why the reaper can't just take the citadel.

The virus was temporary. Sovereign was merely delayed and would've taken control eventually.

Modifié par The Angry One, 07 mai 2012 - 04:31 .

[KingZayd]

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Because he was like that throughout the game? No. He was doing his own thing at first. He wasn't always a pawn of the reapers.

No, its been generaly accepted that TIM has been indoctrinated to some degree after ME 2.  Probably from the Reaper tech sitting in his base.  

To SOME degree. He wasn't the reapers' female dog (I'm not sure if that word is allowed?) until nearer the end of the game. Watch the videos in Cerberus base about 15 mins in: 


in fact I believe the reaper taint was introduced in Mass Effect Evolution. He's just been fighting it all this time.

I've watched them all already.  I'm making the point that Indoctrination is subtle.  The entire point of Cerberus fighting the Alliance and the Council in ME 3 was because they were indoctrinated (along with other poorly constructed reasons.)  Indoctrination is subtle, first becoming sutble hints, insideous enough that it makes you think you're doing the right thing, but you're not.

The Cerberus coup was an attempt to disrupt the balance of the Citadel, even force a take over.  Anything the Reapers don't have to do or makes it easier for them.

They were indoctrinated by TIM, not the reapers. And yes I know all about the subtlety of indoctrination. If the Reapers had nothing to fear from Cerberus, they wouldn't have attacked Sanctuary, after all because Sanctuary would belong to the Reapers themselves.

[JPN17]

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

And the reapers couldn't have done that with their own indoctrinated agents?

You really missed that whole "TIM, and Cerberus by extension and later literally, were indoctrinated" thing didn't you.

Let me quote straight from the codex, 

[Udina's] actions played right into the Reapers' plans: even if the coup failed, it would damage Citadel governance. If it succeeded, his plan to retake Earth would likely have turned into a military blunder that Council forces could ill afford.

I mean, for as much as people whine, **** and moan about "why didn't the Reapers take the Citadel?" right there's your damn answer.

Udina takes over the Citadel with indoctrinated forces. Or hell, maybe even indoctrinated himself through Cerberus contact. Udina then proceeds to command the Citadel fleet to Earth, leaving it defenseless and an easy mark for Reaper forces.

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.The conversation with hachett before going after cerberus.

Does not say the Citadel is defenceless.

2. The citadel fleet is from eveny council fleet in the galxey. Of course it has somthing to do with the citadel fleet.

Leaving the Citadel defenceless would be idiotic. The Citadel Defence Force includes the Citadel fleet.

3. Point being that they needed some at the system to let them in....Which is why they can just get into the system

Minutes. They needed minutes.

1.This is the last battle..Then need everything.
2.Not stupid...Desperate. If they had know how important the citadel was, they would not left it unguarded.
3. ...For Saren to let Sovergin into the system.

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Which is another reason why the reaper can't just take the citadel.

The virus was temporary. Sovereign was merely delayed and would've taken control eventually.

Proof that it was temporary? Also, If you not what Saren was doing before Shep came it....He was still trying to let Sovergin in the system.

[iorveth1271]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.After it was left unguarded.

No.

2.Yes, it was unprotected. Everythting was sent to the final battle...It was unguarded. One force was sent to cerberus. The reast were sent to get ready for the finall attack on earth.

The attack on Cerberus was before this. Also, do you really think they were stupid enough to leave the Citadel unguarded after it had already been attacked once?

3.Because he used Saren to do it...You get that  he had a clear reason of doing it. Also, Saren was tryng to open the citadel Relay. No hook Sovergin to the citadel.

Saren's only role was to get Sovereign inside the Citadel.
Sovereign was directly connected to the Citadel, you are wrong.

1. Yes.
2. It was during the perperation of this.
3. No, it was not the Geth could do that. The main problem was the keepers and the citadel fleet. Sovegin can hook up on his own. The citadel relay had to be over ran at the control panel to work. Saren was a few buttom presses away.

1. No. The Fifth Fleet attacked the Cerberus Base. There is never any mention of the Citadel being left unguarded. The preparation and gathering of fleets started afterwards. Proof: http://www.youtube.c...GuD0yhbzM#t=76s

Never any mention of other fleets before that or after that. It was a Fifth Fleet-only operation. Check the wikia entry about Cerberus too if you don't believe me still.

2. See above.

3. The Geth were only a distraction for the Citadel Fleets. Had Sovereign attacked alone, the Citadel Fleets might have overwhelmed it. That was where their purpose started and ended.
Saren was needed as an organic agent to make sense of the Prothean Beacons for Sovereign and find out how to infiltrate the Citadel, which he did. Sovereign tried to use the signal that made the Keepers unlock the Citadel Relay and let the Reapers in but the Ilos researchers made sure that this would not work anymore.

Why it didn't work was unknown to Sovereign, but as soon as Ilos was found by him and Saren, Saren's task was infiltrate the Citadel, overwhelm the resistance and prepare to give control over the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign would attack with a large fleet while Saren clears the Citadel from the inside out. Then Sovereign docked at the Citadel, Saren closed the arms and then started transferring control over all the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign locked the Relays around the Citadel to stop anyone from interfering while Saren was slowly giving Sovereign control so it could override the Ilos researchers' command and open the Citadel Relay manually, letting the rest of the Reapers in. When Saren died, Sovereign had nobody to make sure that the systems were continually transferred to Sovereign, it basically lost control again. Shepard then opened the Relay network again to let the Fifth Fleet and the Normandy in so they could either attack Sovereign directly or save the Destiny Ascension.

If you do not believe me, play Mass Effect 1 again and pay close attention to that part of the main plot.

Modifié par iorveth1271, 07 mai 2012 - 04:46 .

[mokponobi]

The only reason we cannot defeat the Reapers conventionally is because they were written to be that way.

The only problem with that is, you have to come up a way to defeat them that not only makes sense but meshes with the logic of the universe.

That was not done. There is so much magic that takes place at the end that even if you agree that a conventional victory is not possible, the "victory" you get is just too magical to accept.

2cents

[KingZayd]

The Angry One wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
And yet he still need Saren to over ride the keepers. I would say that he was only there to get into the system once eveny thing was open to his so he can lock all the relay once it open to him...It was not open to him yet. If it was, he would open the citadel realy. If he was connect to the system like you said he was, the battle would of already be lost.

Sigh. He needed Saren to make sure he could get in.

Which is my point. He is not in yet and need someone to let him in. Meaning he does not have control of the relays or citadel yet. If the relay is locked...It's Saren that did it. 

Which is why Shepard is able to unlock them using the same console.

Using a virus designed to usurp control of Citadel systems.

That makes sense. I do remember that Saren was intended to gain entry to the Citadel and open it for Sovereign to then assume direct control of the Citadel and open the relay. I think i also remember Sovereign mounting the Citadel to do so. Closing the relays means buying some time, I had just figured Saren had taken that step himself. 

I guess since the council didn't consider shutting off the relay system,  it's not an option that's usually open on the master console, which would mean Saren wouldn't be able to access that option either since Vigil didn't give him the virus. In which case it would have to be Sovereign who locked the relays.

[humes spork]

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

[Jagri]

iorveth1271 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.After it was left unguarded.

No.

2.Yes, it was unprotected. Everythting was sent to the final battle...It was unguarded. One force was sent to cerberus. The reast were sent to get ready for the finall attack on earth.

The attack on Cerberus was before this. Also, do you really think they were stupid enough to leave the Citadel unguarded after it had already been attacked once?

3.Because he used Saren to do it...You get that  he had a clear reason of doing it. Also, Saren was tryng to open the citadel Relay. No hook Sovergin to the citadel.

Saren's only role was to get Sovereign inside the Citadel.
Sovereign was directly connected to the Citadel, you are wrong.

1. Yes.
2. It was during the perperation of this.
3. No, it was not the Geth could do that. The main problem was the keepers and the citadel fleet. Sovegin can hook up on his own. The citadel relay had to be over ran at the control panel to work. Saren was a few buttom presses away.

1. No. The Fifth Fleet attacked the Cerberus Base. There is never any mention of the Citadel being left unguarded. The preparation and gathering of fleets started afterwards.
2. See above.
3. The Geth were only a distraction for the Citadel Fleets. Had Sovereign attacked alone, the Citadel Fleets might have overwhelmed it. That was where their purpose started and ended.
Saren was needed as an organic agent to make sense of the Prothean Beacons for Sovereign and find out how to infiltrate the Citadel, which he did. Sovereign tried to use the signal that made the Keepers unlock the Citadel Relay and let the Reapers in but the Ilos researchers made sure that this would not work anymore.

Why it didn't work was unknown to Sovereign, but as soon as Ilos was found by him and Saren, Saren's task was infiltrate the Citadel, overwhelm the resistance and prepare to give control over the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign would attack with a large fleet while Saren clears the Citadel from the inside out. Then Sovereign docked at the Citadel, Saren closed the arms and then started transferring control over all the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign locked the Relays around the Citadel to stop anyone from interfering while Saren was slowly giving Sovereign control so it could override the Ilos researchers' command and open the Citadel Relay manually, letting the rest of the Reapers in. When Saren died, Sovereign had nobody to make sure that the systems were continually transferred to Sovereign, it basically lost control again. Shepard then opened the Relay network again to let the Fifth Fleet and the Normandy in so they could either attack Sovereign directly or save the Destiny Ascension.

If you do not believe me, play Mass Effect 1 again and pay close attention to that part of the main plot.

Correct me if I am wrong but Shepard uploaded the code given to him/her by Vigil to disrupt Sovereign's control of the Citadel.

[KingZayd]

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

[balance5050]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Which is another reason why the reaper can't just take the citadel.

The virus was temporary. Sovereign was merely delayed and would've taken control eventually.

Proof that it was temporary? Also, If you not what Saren was doing before Shep came it....He was still trying to let Sovergin in the system.

To be fair, I'm sure with enough time the reapers could override any virus that we make.

[JPN17]

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No you're missing my point, which is the reapers don't take the Citadel. They could have used their own reapers agents, or they could have used Cerberus, I don't care. But there's no explanation for why the reapers didn't take the citadel.

I usually don't throw things like this around online, but you've earned it:

Modifié par JPN17, 07 mai 2012 - 04:52 .

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Which is another reason why the reaper can't just take the citadel.

The virus was temporary. Sovereign was merely delayed and would've taken control eventually.

Proof that it was temporary? Also, If you not what Saren was doing before Shep came it....He was still trying to let Sovergin in the system.

 

conversation with vigil. He tells you.

Also, if it wasn't temporary, why wouldn't it still be working from when the Protheans infiltrated so long ago?

[iorveth1271]

Jagri wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.After it was left unguarded.

No.

2.Yes, it was unprotected. Everythting was sent to the final battle...It was unguarded. One force was sent to cerberus. The reast were sent to get ready for the finall attack on earth.

The attack on Cerberus was before this. Also, do you really think they were stupid enough to leave the Citadel unguarded after it had already been attacked once?

3.Because he used Saren to do it...You get that  he had a clear reason of doing it. Also, Saren was tryng to open the citadel Relay. No hook Sovergin to the citadel.

Saren's only role was to get Sovereign inside the Citadel.
Sovereign was directly connected to the Citadel, you are wrong.

1. Yes.
2. It was during the perperation of this.
3. No, it was not the Geth could do that. The main problem was the keepers and the citadel fleet. Sovegin can hook up on his own. The citadel relay had to be over ran at the control panel to work. Saren was a few buttom presses away.

1. No. The Fifth Fleet attacked the Cerberus Base. There is never any mention of the Citadel being left unguarded. The preparation and gathering of fleets started afterwards.
2. See above.
3. The Geth were only a distraction for the Citadel Fleets. Had Sovereign attacked alone, the Citadel Fleets might have overwhelmed it. That was where their purpose started and ended.
Saren was needed as an organic agent to make sense of the Prothean Beacons for Sovereign and find out how to infiltrate the Citadel, which he did. Sovereign tried to use the signal that made the Keepers unlock the Citadel Relay and let the Reapers in but the Ilos researchers made sure that this would not work anymore.

Why it didn't work was unknown to Sovereign, but as soon as Ilos was found by him and Saren, Saren's task was infiltrate the Citadel, overwhelm the resistance and prepare to give control over the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign would attack with a large fleet while Saren clears the Citadel from the inside out. Then Sovereign docked at the Citadel, Saren closed the arms and then started transferring control over all the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign locked the Relays around the Citadel to stop anyone from interfering while Saren was slowly giving Sovereign control so it could override the Ilos researchers' command and open the Citadel Relay manually, letting the rest of the Reapers in. When Saren died, Sovereign had nobody to make sure that the systems were continually transferred to Sovereign, it basically lost control again. Shepard then opened the Relay network again to let the Fifth Fleet and the Normandy in so they could either attack Sovereign directly or save the Destiny Ascension.

If you do not believe me, play Mass Effect 1 again and pay close attention to that part of the main plot.

Correct me if I am wrong but Shepard uploaded the code given to him/her by Vigil to disrupt Sovereign's control of the Citadel.

I believe so, yes. Whether that virus was permanent or not though was never mentioned.

[incinerator950]

KingZayd wrote...

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races.  If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control. 

Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.

[dreman9999]

iorveth1271 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.After it was left unguarded.

No.

2.Yes, it was unprotected. Everythting was sent to the final battle...It was unguarded. One force was sent to cerberus. The reast were sent to get ready for the finall attack on earth.

The attack on Cerberus was before this. Also, do you really think they were stupid enough to leave the Citadel unguarded after it had already been attacked once?

3.Because he used Saren to do it...You get that  he had a clear reason of doing it. Also, Saren was tryng to open the citadel Relay. No hook Sovergin to the citadel.

Saren's only role was to get Sovereign inside the Citadel.
Sovereign was directly connected to the Citadel, you are wrong.

1. Yes.
2. It was during the perperation of this.
3. No, it was not the Geth could do that. The main problem was the keepers and the citadel fleet. Sovegin can hook up on his own. The citadel relay had to be over ran at the control panel to work. Saren was a few buttom presses away.

1. No. The Fifth Fleet attacked the Cerberus Base. There is never any mention of the Citadel being left unguarded. The preparation and gathering of fleets started afterwards.
2. See above.
3. The Geth were only a distraction for the Citadel Fleets. Had Sovereign attacked alone, the Citadel Fleets might have overwhelmed it. That was where their purpose started and ended.
Saren was needed as an organic agent to make sense of the Prothean Beacons for Sovereign and find out how to infiltrate the Citadel, which he did. Sovereign tried to use the signal that made the Keepers unlock the Citadel Relay and let the Reapers in but the Ilos researchers made sure that this would not work anymore.

Why it didn't work was unknown to Sovereign, but as soon as Ilos was found by him and Saren, Saren's task was infiltrate the Citadel, overwhelm the resistance and prepare to give control over the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign would attack with a large fleet while Saren clears the Citadel from the inside out. Then Sovereign docked at the Citadel, Saren closed the arms and then started transferring control over all the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign locked the Relays around the Citadel to stop anyone from interfering while Saren was slowly giving Sovereign control so it could override the Ilos researchers' command and open the Citadel Relay manually, letting the rest of the Reapers in. When Saren died, Sovereign had nobody to make sure that the systems were continually transferred to Sovereign, it basically lost control again. Shepard then opened the Relay network again to let the Fifth Fleet and the Normandy in so they could either attack Sovereign directly or save the Destiny Ascension.

If you do not believe me, play Mass Effect 1 again and pay close attention to that part of the main plot.

3. Saren was still used to allow Sovergin into the keepers system..He was not just used to make sense of the prothean data alone. As stated and shown before...Sarea is shown still trying to let Sovergin in when Shapard interupted him...

If Sovegin was in the system already , then what was Saren trying to do at 3 seconds into that video.

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 mai 2012 - 04:52 .

[dreman9999]

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races.  If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control. 

Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.

That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus.

[iorveth1271]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. I was also stating that the citadel fleet was also used for pre
3. Saren was still used to allow Sovergin into the keepers system..He was not just used to make sense of the prothean data alone. As stated and shown before...Sarea is shown still trying to let Sovergin in when Shapard interupted him...

If Sovegin was in the system already , then what was Saren trying to do at 3 seconds into that video.

1. There is no mention of that anywhere. If you have any proof, please present it. Otherwise, there is no mention in the Galactic Readiness System or anywhere else that the Citadel Defense Force has actually left the Citadel beforehand for preparations.

3. Saren's job was to make sense of the Beacons, find Ilos and get onto the Citadel that way, then give Sovereign full control over the Citadel systems. That process however does not work from one second to another, as you probably assume. Sovereign never gained full control of the Citadel's systems, otherwise ME2 and ME3 would not have happened...