245 réponses à ce sujet

[Jagri]

iorveth1271 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.After it was left unguarded.

No.

2.Yes, it was unprotected. Everythting was sent to the final battle...It was unguarded. One force was sent to cerberus. The reast were sent to get ready for the finall attack on earth.

The attack on Cerberus was before this. Also, do you really think they were stupid enough to leave the Citadel unguarded after it had already been attacked once?

3.Because he used Saren to do it...You get that  he had a clear reason of doing it. Also, Saren was tryng to open the citadel Relay. No hook Sovergin to the citadel.

Saren's only role was to get Sovereign inside the Citadel.
Sovereign was directly connected to the Citadel, you are wrong.

1. Yes.
2. It was during the perperation of this.
3. No, it was not the Geth could do that. The main problem was the keepers and the citadel fleet. Sovegin can hook up on his own. The citadel relay had to be over ran at the control panel to work. Saren was a few buttom presses away.

1. No. The Fifth Fleet attacked the Cerberus Base. There is never any mention of the Citadel being left unguarded. The preparation and gathering of fleets started afterwards.
2. See above.
3. The Geth were only a distraction for the Citadel Fleets. Had Sovereign attacked alone, the Citadel Fleets might have overwhelmed it. That was where their purpose started and ended.
Saren was needed as an organic agent to make sense of the Prothean Beacons for Sovereign and find out how to infiltrate the Citadel, which he did. Sovereign tried to use the signal that made the Keepers unlock the Citadel Relay and let the Reapers in but the Ilos researchers made sure that this would not work anymore.

Why it didn't work was unknown to Sovereign, but as soon as Ilos was found by him and Saren, Saren's task was infiltrate the Citadel, overwhelm the resistance and prepare to give control over the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign would attack with a large fleet while Saren clears the Citadel from the inside out. Then Sovereign docked at the Citadel, Saren closed the arms and then started transferring control over all the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign locked the Relays around the Citadel to stop anyone from interfering while Saren was slowly giving Sovereign control so it could override the Ilos researchers' command and open the Citadel Relay manually, letting the rest of the Reapers in. When Saren died, Sovereign had nobody to make sure that the systems were continually transferred to Sovereign, it basically lost control again. Shepard then opened the Relay network again to let the Fifth Fleet and the Normandy in so they could either attack Sovereign directly or save the Destiny Ascension.

If you do not believe me, play Mass Effect 1 again and pay close attention to that part of the main plot.

Correct me if I am wrong but Shepard uploaded the code given to him/her by Vigil to disrupt Sovereign's control of the Citadel.

I believe so, yes. Whether that virus was permanent or not though was never mentioned.

Found it...  (11:00)

Vigil: "It will corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give you temporary control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign.

[Rhz]

dreman9999 wrote...
Just a thing I want to point out to people who think we can win convetionally.

Do thresher maws count as conventional?

[humes spork]

iorveth1271 wrote...

Why it didn't work was unknown to Sovereign...

Sovereign's "plan" was completely pants-on-head stupid from the beginning. It had the most effective, trusted Spectre on its side; it didn't need a military force, all it had to do was have Saren walk into the Council chambers, claim to have some privileged information that can only be discussed in closed session with locked doors, proceed to cap the Council then use the Citadel master control panel. Just tell Saren which one is the "Reaper On Button". **** it.

The only reason it needed a military force in the first place is because Saren lost his Spectre status, and couldn't just walk into the Council chamber and use the control panel. Saren lost his Spectre status because he attacked Eden Prime for information on the Conduit. And at that point, Sovereign already knew the nature of the prothean sabotage....and the only reason it would need the Conduit is to stage a military takeover of Citadel space.

A military takeover it never needed in the first place.

[KingZayd]

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races.  If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control. 

Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.

As TIM says, Grayson was only loyal to his next dose of red sand. TIM is a true believer in his cause. Why wouldn't he want the Citadel? The Citadel would make for an awesome base if he had it. He was indoctrinated a little at that point. He was no zombie though. Everything he was doing, was for his plan.

[dreman9999]

Jagri wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.After it was left unguarded.

No.

2.Yes, it was unprotected. Everythting was sent to the final battle...It was unguarded. One force was sent to cerberus. The reast were sent to get ready for the finall attack on earth.

The attack on Cerberus was before this. Also, do you really think they were stupid enough to leave the Citadel unguarded after it had already been attacked once?

3.Because he used Saren to do it...You get that  he had a clear reason of doing it. Also, Saren was tryng to open the citadel Relay. No hook Sovergin to the citadel.

Saren's only role was to get Sovereign inside the Citadel.
Sovereign was directly connected to the Citadel, you are wrong.

1. Yes.
2. It was during the perperation of this.
3. No, it was not the Geth could do that. The main problem was the keepers and the citadel fleet. Sovegin can hook up on his own. The citadel relay had to be over ran at the control panel to work. Saren was a few buttom presses away.

1. No. The Fifth Fleet attacked the Cerberus Base. There is never any mention of the Citadel being left unguarded. The preparation and gathering of fleets started afterwards.
2. See above.
3. The Geth were only a distraction for the Citadel Fleets. Had Sovereign attacked alone, the Citadel Fleets might have overwhelmed it. That was where their purpose started and ended.
Saren was needed as an organic agent to make sense of the Prothean Beacons for Sovereign and find out how to infiltrate the Citadel, which he did. Sovereign tried to use the signal that made the Keepers unlock the Citadel Relay and let the Reapers in but the Ilos researchers made sure that this would not work anymore.

Why it didn't work was unknown to Sovereign, but as soon as Ilos was found by him and Saren, Saren's task was infiltrate the Citadel, overwhelm the resistance and prepare to give control over the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign would attack with a large fleet while Saren clears the Citadel from the inside out. Then Sovereign docked at the Citadel, Saren closed the arms and then started transferring control over all the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign locked the Relays around the Citadel to stop anyone from interfering while Saren was slowly giving Sovereign control so it could override the Ilos researchers' command and open the Citadel Relay manually, letting the rest of the Reapers in. When Saren died, Sovereign had nobody to make sure that the systems were continually transferred to Sovereign, it basically lost control again. Shepard then opened the Relay network again to let the Fifth Fleet and the Normandy in so they could either attack Sovereign directly or save the Destiny Ascension.

If you do not believe me, play Mass Effect 1 again and pay close attention to that part of the main plot.

Correct me if I am wrong but Shepard uploaded the code given to him/her by Vigil to disrupt Sovereign's control of the Citadel.

Nope...http://www.youtube.c...psejZRq0#t=613s
It just give Shepardcontrol of the station, not stop Sovegins control...

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 mai 2012 - 05:01 .

[incinerator950]

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races.  If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control. 

Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.

That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus.

Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races.  You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders. 

It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.  

[KingZayd]

humes spork wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

Why it didn't work was unknown to Sovereign...

Sovereign's "plan" was completely pants-on-head stupid from the beginning. It had the most effective, trusted Spectre on its side; it didn't need a military force, all it had to do was have Saren walk into the Council chambers, claim to have some privileged information that can only be discussed in closed session with locked doors, proceed to cap the Council then use the Citadel master control panel. Just tell Saren which one is the "Reaper On Button". **** it.

The only reason it needed a military force in the first place is because Saren lost his Spectre status, and couldn't just walk into the Council chamber and use the control panel. Saren lost his Spectre status because he attacked Eden Prime for information on the Conduit. And at that point, Sovereign already knew the nature of the prothean sabotage....and the only reason it would need the Conduit is to stage a military takeover of Citadel space.

A military takeover it never needed in the first place.

Saren lost his spectre status in the process of finding out what happened. Sovereign didn't have a plan yet, because he didn't know what was wrong.

[dreman9999]

incinerator950 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races.  If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control. 

Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.

That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus.

Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races.  You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders. 

It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.  

But if they can cutthe signal tothe tech...It can cut the signal to indoctrinated agents. TIm knows all about indoctrination and how we nearly was indoctinated before. I think he would check. I'm not staying he is not indoctianted, just that  we don't really know. It can go ether way. It hope BW never tells us.

[Kanaris]

See now you're just trying to not be proven wrong and I have a migraine still just from reading this

Modifié par Kanaris, 07 mai 2012 - 05:05 .

[KingZayd]

incinerator950 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races.  If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control. 

Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.

That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus.

Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races.  You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders. 

It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.  

And yet TIM wasn't under reaper control at that point.

[dreman9999]

Rhz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Just a thing I want to point out to people who think we can win convetionally.

Do thresher maws count as conventional?

True, but we can't make a gun that shoots mega threasher maws.

[KingZayd]

Rhz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Just a thing I want to point out to people who think we can win convetionally.

Do thresher maws count as conventional?

taking out a reaper with a giant sandworm is definitely unconventional.

[dreman9999]

x

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 mai 2012 - 05:08 .

[Jagri]

dreman9999 wrote...
Nope...http://www.youtube.c...psejZRq0#t=613s
It just give Shepardcontrol of the station, not stop Sovegins control...

Negative...  (0:35)

"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"

Funny Saren isn't at a control panel when he is telling Shepard that. That means Sovereign was connected and that Vigil's code disrupted Sovereigns uplink/connection to the Citadel.

[incinerator950]

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races.  If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control. 

Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.

That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus.

Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races.  You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders. 

It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.  

But if they can cutthe signal tothe tech...It can cut the signal to indoctrinated agents. TIm knows all about indoctrination and how we nearly was indoctinated before. I think he would check. I'm not staying he is not indoctianted, just that  we don't really know. It can go ether way. It hope BW never tells us.

It doesn't work like that, they don't block out indoctrination.   A Slave-Rig to a bunch of Conscript soldiers with Reaper implants doesn't help to prevent your leaders with or without said implants.  The Husk control signal only affects Reaper forces in a limited radius, and Cerberus never implemented it. 

It's not hard to guess, he failed to take precautions, the Reaper tech indoctrinated him, and before long he was eventually making rash decisions.  Even Ex-Cerberus members will note that he changed. 

[balance5050]

Rhz wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Just a thing I want to point out to people who think we can win convetionally.

Do thresher maws count as conventional?

It's conventional for this specific member of our Galaxy, remember that Shep was uniting the galaxy against the reapers. Guns may be conventional for us but not all organics.

[dreman9999]

Jagri wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

iorveth1271 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.After it was left unguarded.

No.

2.Yes, it was unprotected. Everythting was sent to the final battle...It was unguarded. One force was sent to cerberus. The reast were sent to get ready for the finall attack on earth.

The attack on Cerberus was before this. Also, do you really think they were stupid enough to leave the Citadel unguarded after it had already been attacked once?

3.Because he used Saren to do it...You get that  he had a clear reason of doing it. Also, Saren was tryng to open the citadel Relay. No hook Sovergin to the citadel.

Saren's only role was to get Sovereign inside the Citadel.
Sovereign was directly connected to the Citadel, you are wrong.

1. Yes.
2. It was during the perperation of this.
3. No, it was not the Geth could do that. The main problem was the keepers and the citadel fleet. Sovegin can hook up on his own. The citadel relay had to be over ran at the control panel to work. Saren was a few buttom presses away.

1. No. The Fifth Fleet attacked the Cerberus Base. There is never any mention of the Citadel being left unguarded. The preparation and gathering of fleets started afterwards.
2. See above.
3. The Geth were only a distraction for the Citadel Fleets. Had Sovereign attacked alone, the Citadel Fleets might have overwhelmed it. That was where their purpose started and ended.
Saren was needed as an organic agent to make sense of the Prothean Beacons for Sovereign and find out how to infiltrate the Citadel, which he did. Sovereign tried to use the signal that made the Keepers unlock the Citadel Relay and let the Reapers in but the Ilos researchers made sure that this would not work anymore.

Why it didn't work was unknown to Sovereign, but as soon as Ilos was found by him and Saren, Saren's task was infiltrate the Citadel, overwhelm the resistance and prepare to give control over the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign would attack with a large fleet while Saren clears the Citadel from the inside out. Then Sovereign docked at the Citadel, Saren closed the arms and then started transferring control over all the Citadel's systems to Sovereign. Sovereign locked the Relays around the Citadel to stop anyone from interfering while Saren was slowly giving Sovereign control so it could override the Ilos researchers' command and open the Citadel Relay manually, letting the rest of the Reapers in. When Saren died, Sovereign had nobody to make sure that the systems were continually transferred to Sovereign, it basically lost control again. Shepard then opened the Relay network again to let the Fifth Fleet and the Normandy in so they could either attack Sovereign directly or save the Destiny Ascension.

If you do not believe me, play Mass Effect 1 again and pay close attention to that part of the main plot.

Correct me if I am wrong but Shepard uploaded the code given to him/her by Vigil to disrupt Sovereign's control of the Citadel.

I believe so, yes. Whether that virus was permanent or not though was never mentioned.

Found it...  (11:00)

Vigil: "It will corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give you temporary control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign.

Which means it's not gear to cutting Sovergin from the citadel systems, but  to giving Shepard acsess to it, too. 

[incinerator950]

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Nope...http://www.youtube.c...psejZRq0#t=613s
It just give Shepardcontrol of the station, not stop Sovegins control...

Negative...  (0:35)

"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"

Funny Saren isn't at a control panel when he is telling Shepard that. That means Sovereign was connected and that Vigil's code disrupted Sovereigns uplink/connection to the Citadel.

What?  Shepard doesn't use Vigil's instant win until after Saren died the first time.  Shepard has to physically use it on the terminal.

[humes spork]

KingZayd wrote...

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

TIM is indoctrinated. He is already indoctrinated and has been since the First Contact War (source, Mass Effect: Evolution). The "Reaper signal" Henry Lawson figures out how to usurp is for controlling non-autonomous forces; that is to say, husks. It doesn't matter whether orders to Cerberus forces come from him or the Reapers directly, because as an indoctrinated TIM serves Reaper interests, and one way or another Reaper interests are in the long run served.

That TIM is indoctrinated long before the events of Mass Effect 3 is not speculation. That is explicit, in a source that is canon.

No you're missing my point, which is the reapers don't take the Citadel. They could have used their own reapers agents, or they could have used Cerberus, I don't care. But there's no explanation for why the reapers didn't take the citadel. 

Seriously? "They could have used Cerberus" to retake the Citadel, but they didn't [or didn't try]?

[dreman9999]

incinerator950 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races.  If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control. 

Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.

That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus.

Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races.  You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders. 

It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.  

But if they can cutthe signal tothe tech...It can cut the signal to indoctrinated agents. TIm knows all about indoctrination and how we nearly was indoctinated before. I think he would check. I'm not staying he is not indoctianted, just that  we don't really know. It can go ether way. It hope BW never tells us.

It doesn't work like that, they don't block out indoctrination.   A Slave-Rig to a bunch of Conscript soldiers with Reaper implants doesn't help to prevent your leaders with or without said implants.  The Husk control signal only affects Reaper forces in a limited radius, and Cerberus never implemented it. 

It's not hard to guess, he failed to take precautions, the Reaper tech indoctrinated him, and before long he was eventually making rash decisions.  Even Ex-Cerberus members will note that he changed. 

If it blocks out the signal.It blocks out indoctriantion.How does someone get indoctrinated with out the reaper signal...It's key to indoctriantion. Sure, the tech has a limited range but when arethey not using or out of range of that tech. I would guess it's part of the gear of every ceberus agent. If it was not a threat to the reapers, the reapers whould never have attack ceberus horison base.

[KingZayd]

incinerator950 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races.  If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control. 

Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.

That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus.

Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races.  You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders. 

It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.  

But if they can cutthe signal tothe tech...It can cut the signal to indoctrinated agents. TIm knows all about indoctrination and how we nearly was indoctinated before. I think he would check. I'm not staying he is not indoctianted, just that  we don't really know. It can go ether way. It hope BW never tells us.

It doesn't work like that, they don't block out indoctrination.   A Slave-Rig to a bunch of Conscript soldiers with Reaper implants doesn't help to prevent your leaders with or without said implants.  The Husk control signal only affects Reaper forces in a limited radius, and Cerberus never implemented it. 

It's not hard to guess, he failed to take precautions, the Reaper tech indoctrinated him, and before long he was eventually making rash decisions.  Even Ex-Cerberus members will note that he changed. 

Video 2: "I'm still concerned about us losing control of our forces. Some of them are already hearing voices" "When our work at Sanctuary pays off, the only voices they'll be hearing is ours"
Video 3: "Sanctuary was a success"

 
watch from around 15 mins.

[Jagri]

incinerator950 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Nope...http://www.youtube.c...psejZRq0#t=613s
It just give Shepardcontrol of the station, not stop Sovegins control...

Negative...  (0:35)

"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"

Funny Saren isn't at a control panel when he is telling Shepard that. That means Sovereign was connected and that Vigil's code disrupted Sovereigns uplink/connection to the Citadel.

What?  Shepard doesn't use Vigil's instant win until after Saren died the first time.  Shepard has to physically use it on the terminal.

Heh did Saren have his omni-tool out then? That and Shepard wouldn't really have time to open his own omni-tool and use the code if Saren is just waiting for a chance to shoot him.

Modifié par Jagri, 07 mai 2012 - 05:19 .

[dreman9999]

incinerator950 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Nope...http://www.youtube.c...psejZRq0#t=613s
It just give Shepardcontrol of the station, not stop Sovegins control...

Negative...  (0:35)

"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"

Funny Saren isn't at a control panel when he is telling Shepard that. That means Sovereign was connected and that Vigil's code disrupted Sovereigns uplink/connection to the Citadel.

What?  Shepard doesn't use Vigil's instant win until after Saren died the first time.  Shepard has to physically use it on the terminal.

Also, Saran was at the control panel before Shep interupted him trying to let Sovergin in the system. ..

[KingZayd]

humes spork wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

TIM is indoctrinated. He is already indoctrinated and has been since the First Contact War (source, Mass Effect: Evolution). The "Reaper signal" Henry Lawson figures out how to usurp is for controlling non-autonomous forces; that is to say, husks. It doesn't matter whether orders to Cerberus forces come from him or the Reapers directly, because as an indoctrinated TIM serves Reaper interests, and one way or another Reaper interests are in the long run served.

That TIM is indoctrinated long before the events of Mass Effect 3 is not speculation. That is explicit, in a source that is canon.

Yes I know that. And yet he fights the reapers in ME2.  In ME3 he tries to fight them in his own way too. It's not til the end that he succumbs and decides to help the reapers.

[incinerator950]

KingZayd wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

humes spork wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.

No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.

No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.

He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races.  If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control. 

Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.

That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus.

Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races.  You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders. 

It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.  

But if they can cutthe signal tothe tech...It can cut the signal to indoctrinated agents. TIm knows all about indoctrination and how we nearly was indoctinated before. I think he would check. I'm not staying he is not indoctianted, just that  we don't really know. It can go ether way. It hope BW never tells us.

It doesn't work like that, they don't block out indoctrination.   A Slave-Rig to a bunch of Conscript soldiers with Reaper implants doesn't help to prevent your leaders with or without said implants.  The Husk control signal only affects Reaper forces in a limited radius, and Cerberus never implemented it. 

It's not hard to guess, he failed to take precautions, the Reaper tech indoctrinated him, and before long he was eventually making rash decisions.  Even Ex-Cerberus members will note that he changed. 

Video 2: "I'm still concerned about us losing control of our forces. Some of them are already hearing voices" "When our work at Sanctuary pays off, the only voices they'll be hearing is ours"
Video 3: "Sanctuary was a success"

 
watch from around 15 mins.

That doesn't prove anything, only that Cerberus Troopers take orders.  TIM has no restraints, no one without implants to prevent him from Rash decisions.  Providing a link to a video that shows the pawns are controllable doesn't help.  TIM is Indoctrinated, this is not helping your case when it has been shown that those who are indoctrinated will go from trying to fight it to working alongside it.