"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"
Funny Saren isn't at a control panel when he is telling Shepard that. That means Sovereign was connected and that Vigil's code disrupted Sovereigns uplink/connection to the Citadel.
What? Shepard doesn't use Vigil's instant win until after Saren died the first time. Shepard has to physically use it on the terminal.
Also, Saran was at the control panel before Shep interupted him trying to let Sovergin in the system. ..
So Saren was evidently successful in establishing a link assuring Shepard in minutes Sovereign would have complete control.
Code was temporary. Sovereign was logging in.< These are the points. Saren at this point just had to make sure Shepard didn't interrupt.
"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"
Funny Saren isn't at a control panel when he is telling Shepard that. That means Sovereign was connected and that Vigil's code disrupted Sovereigns uplink/connection to the Citadel.
What? Shepard doesn't use Vigil's instant win until after Saren died the first time. Shepard has to physically use it on the terminal.
Heh did Saren have his omni-tool out then? That and Shepard wouldn't really have time to open his own omni-tool and use the code if Saren is just waiting for a chance to shoot him.
Nope....Also, Jagri missed the part at the start of the video were Saren was still typing on the control panel.....I wounder why Saren is doing that if Sovergin wa already in the system?
Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.
No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak.
No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.
He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races. If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control.
Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.
That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus.
Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races. You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders.
It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.
But if they can cutthe signal tothe tech...It can cut the signal to indoctrinated agents. TIm knows all about indoctrination and how we nearly was indoctinated before. I think he would check. I'm not staying he is not indoctianted, just that we don't really know. It can go ether way. It hope BW never tells us.
It doesn't work like that, they don't block out indoctrination. A Slave-Rig to a bunch of Conscript soldiers with Reaper implants doesn't help to prevent your leaders with or without said implants. The Husk control signal only affects Reaper forces in a limited radius, and Cerberus never implemented it.
It's not hard to guess, he failed to take precautions, the Reaper tech indoctrinated him, and before long he was eventually making rash decisions. Even Ex-Cerberus members will note that he changed.
Video 2: "I'm still concerned about us losing control of our forces. Some of them are already hearing voices" "When our work at Sanctuary pays off, the only voices they'll be hearing is ours" Video 3: "Sanctuary was a success"
watch from around 15 mins.
That doesn't prove anything, only that Cerberus Troopers take orders. TIM has no restraints, no one without implants to prevent him from Rash decisions. Providing a link to a video that shows the pawns are controllable doesn't help. TIM is Indoctrinated, this is not helping your case when it has been shown that those who are indoctrinated will go from trying to fight it to working alongside it.
TIM doesn't have those restraints, which is why he fails in the end after getting himself implanted in that operation we saw at the end of video 3. He believes Jan will stop him from making those mistakes, but apparently she failed. Before that he was resisting the indoctrination himself.
"You've lost Shepard. You know that don't you? In a few minutes Sovereign will have full control of all the Citadel's systems. The relay will open. The Reapers will return"
Funny Saren isn't at a control panel when he is telling Shepard that. That means Sovereign was connected and that Vigil's code disrupted Sovereigns uplink/connection to the Citadel.
What? Shepard doesn't use Vigil's instant win until after Saren died the first time. Shepard has to physically use it on the terminal.
Also, Saran was at the control panel before Shep interupted him trying to let Sovergin in the system. ..
So Saren was evidently successful in establishing a link assuring Shepard in minutes Sovereign would have complete control.
Code was temporary. Sovereign was logging in.< These are the points Saren at this point just had to make sure Shepard didn't interrupt. Saren's role was over at that point.
No, he did not let Sovegin in yet. Sovegin was not in the system yet. if it was the citadel realy would have opened. What Shepard ha is not to distrupt Sovergin but... corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give Shepard temporary control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign.... It give Shepard control of the station , not cut off Sovergin.
No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.
TIM is indoctrinated. He is already indoctrinated and has been since the First Contact War (source, Mass Effect: Evolution). The "Reaper signal" Henry Lawson figures out how to usurp is for controlling non-autonomous forces; that is to say, husks. It doesn't matter whether orders to Cerberus forces come from him or the Reapers directly, because as an indoctrinated TIM serves Reaper interests, and one way or another Reaper interests are in the long run served.
That TIM is indoctrinated long before the events of Mass Effect 3 is not speculation. That is explicit, in a source that is canon.
Yes I know that. And yet he fights the reapers in ME2. In ME3 he tries to fight them in his own way too. It's not til the end that he succumbs and decides to help the reapers.
Like Paul Grayson, his own way ends up helping the Reapers divide the Council Races instead of supporting them. Instead of fighting the Reapers, he attacks priority targets in an attempt to take them, destroy them, or disrupt them. Instead of fighting them, they are attacking Civilian population centers, planting indoctrination devices and kidnapping populations. Instead of fighting them, they're trying to remove the Council and take the Citadel. Instead of fighting the Reapers, they're destroying Ship Centers and suffocating the Domes of civilians on colony worlds.
Yes, that's a great way to fight an enemy, do all their work for them, and then join them like Saren.
Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.[/quote] No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak. [/quote]
No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.
[/quote]
He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races. If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control.
Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.
[/quote]That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus. [/quote]
Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races. You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders.
It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.
[/quote]But if they can cutthe signal tothe tech...It can cut the signal to indoctrinated agents. TIm knows all about indoctrination and how we nearly was indoctinated before. I think he would check. I'm not staying he is not indoctianted, just that we don't really know. It can go ether way. It hope BW never tells us. [/quote]
It doesn't work like that, they don't block out indoctrination. A Slave-Rig to a bunch of Conscript soldiers with Reaper implants doesn't help to prevent your leaders with or without said implants. The Husk control signal only affects Reaper forces in a limited radius, and Cerberus never implemented it.
It's not hard to guess, he failed to take precautions, the Reaper tech indoctrinated him, and before long he was eventually making rash decisions. Even Ex-Cerberus members will note that he changed.
[/quote]
Video 2: "I'm still concerned about us losing control of our forces. Some of them are already hearing voices" "When our work at Sanctuary pays off, the only voices they'll be hearing is ours" Video 3: "Sanctuary was a success"
watch from around 15 mins. [/quote]
That doesn't prove anything, only that Cerberus Troopers take orders. TIM has no restraints, no one without implants to prevent him from Rash decisions. Providing a link to a video that shows the pawns are controllable doesn't help. TIM is Indoctrinated, this is not helping your case when it has been shown that those who are indoctrinated will go from trying to fight it to working alongside it.
[/quote]
TIM doesn't have those restraints, which is why he fails in the end after getting himself implanted in that operation we saw at the end of video 3. He believes Jan will stop him from making those mistakes, but apparently she failed. Before that he was resisting the indoctrination himself.
[/quote]How can he be indoctrinated if the found a way to cut the signal?
Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.[/quote] No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak. [/quote]
No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.
[/quote]
He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races. If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control.
Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.
[/quote]That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus. [/quote]
Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races. You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders.
It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.
[/quote]But if they can cutthe signal tothe tech...It can cut the signal to indoctrinated agents. TIm knows all about indoctrination and how we nearly was indoctinated before. I think he would check. I'm not staying he is not indoctianted, just that we don't really know. It can go ether way. It hope BW never tells us. [/quote]
It doesn't work like that, they don't block out indoctrination. A Slave-Rig to a bunch of Conscript soldiers with Reaper implants doesn't help to prevent your leaders with or without said implants. The Husk control signal only affects Reaper forces in a limited radius, and Cerberus never implemented it.
It's not hard to guess, he failed to take precautions, the Reaper tech indoctrinated him, and before long he was eventually making rash decisions. Even Ex-Cerberus members will note that he changed.
[/quote]
Video 2: "I'm still concerned about us losing control of our forces. Some of them are already hearing voices" "When our work at Sanctuary pays off, the only voices they'll be hearing is ours" Video 3: "Sanctuary was a success"
watch from around 15 mins. [/quote]
That doesn't prove anything, only that Cerberus Troopers take orders. TIM has no restraints, no one without implants to prevent him from Rash decisions. Providing a link to a video that shows the pawns are controllable doesn't help. TIM is Indoctrinated, this is not helping your case when it has been shown that those who are indoctrinated will go from trying to fight it to working alongside it.
[/quote]
TIM doesn't have those restraints, which is why he fails in the end after getting himself implanted in that operation we saw at the end of video 3. He believes Jan will stop him from making those mistakes, but apparently she failed. Before that he was resisting the indoctrination himself.
[/quote]How can he be indoctrinated if the found a way to cut the signal? [/quote]
He didn't cut their signal, he's subverting it to their own use. They Co-Opted the signal, either mimicked it or rewrote a portion of it.
Yes I know that. And yet he fights the reapers in ME2. In ME3 he tries to fight them in his own way too. It's not til the end that he succumbs and decides to help the reapers.
Did he, or was he just unconciously preparing a ready-made organization of sleeper agents, complete with the resources to wreak havoc, to spring into action once the Reapers arrived?
And, in ME3 Cerberus commits a hell of a lot of sabotage and pulls a lot of stunts that would keep the organic races from unifying to fight the Reapers for an organization that wants the Reapers defeated.
No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.
TIM is indoctrinated. He is already indoctrinated and has been since the First Contact War (source, Mass Effect: Evolution). The "Reaper signal" Henry Lawson figures out how to usurp is for controlling non-autonomous forces; that is to say, husks. It doesn't matter whether orders to Cerberus forces come from him or the Reapers directly, because as an indoctrinated TIM serves Reaper interests, and one way or another Reaper interests are in the long run served.
That TIM is indoctrinated long before the events of Mass Effect 3 is not speculation. That is explicit, in a source that is canon.
Yes I know that. And yet he fights the reapers in ME2. In ME3 he tries to fight them in his own way too. It's not til the end that he succumbs and decides to help the reapers.
Like Paul Grayson, his own way ends up helping the Reapers divide the Council Races instead of supporting them. Instead of fighting the Reapers, he attacks priority targets in an attempt to take them, destroy them, or disrupt them. Instead of fighting them, they are attacking Civilian population centers, planting indoctrination devices and kidnapping populations. Instead of fighting them, they're trying to remove the Council and take the Citadel. Instead of fighting the Reapers, they're destroying Ship Centers and suffocating the Domes of civilians on colony worlds.
Yes, that's a great way to fight an enemy, do all their work for them, and then join them like Saren.
We don't know what he was going to do with those assets do we? As for why he was attacking civillian population systems, we saw why at Sanctuary. The fact that his actions got in our way doesn't mean the Reapers are telling him to get in our way. Remember TIM is all about the humans, he doesn't care about the Council Races. Just because he was mistaken, doesn't mean he wasn't responsible for his actions.
dreman9999 wrote... No, he did not let Sovegin in yet. Sovegin was not in the system yet. if it was the citadel realy would have opened. What Shepard ha is not to distrupt Sovergin but... [color=rgb(170,170,170)">corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give Shepard ]temporary[/color] control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign.... It give Shepard control of the station , not cut off Sovergin.
Point is evidently missed in the last few moments Saren turned over control of the station to Sovereign and engaged Shepard in conversation/combat. It is established within minutes Sovereign would gain full control. The count down starts and Shepard defeats Saren one way or another and uses Vigil's code to take control of systems. Evidently he disrupted Sovereigns link thus prompting him to assume control of Saren's body. Really if Sovereign had shared control of the systems he could open the relay in dark space and win or Shepard and him would engage in "Relay on... Relay off... Relay on... Relay off."
Yes I know that. And yet he fights the reapers in ME2. In ME3 he tries to fight them in his own way too. It's not til the end that he succumbs and decides to help the reapers.
Did he, or was he just unconciously preparing a ready-made organization of sleeper agents, complete with the resources to wreak havoc, to spring into action once the Reapers arrived?
Yeah he did. He brought Shepard back from the dead. He destroyed the Collectors. That new Human Reaper? gone, before it could do any real harm itself.
No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.
TIM is indoctrinated. He is already indoctrinated and has been since the First Contact War (source, Mass Effect: Evolution). The "Reaper signal" Henry Lawson figures out how to usurp is for controlling non-autonomous forces; that is to say, husks. It doesn't matter whether orders to Cerberus forces come from him or the Reapers directly, because as an indoctrinated TIM serves Reaper interests, and one way or another Reaper interests are in the long run served.
That TIM is indoctrinated long before the events of Mass Effect 3 is not speculation. That is explicit, in a source that is canon.
Yes I know that. And yet he fights the reapers in ME2. In ME3 he tries to fight them in his own way too. It's not til the end that he succumbs and decides to help the reapers.
Like Paul Grayson, his own way ends up helping the Reapers divide the Council Races instead of supporting them. Instead of fighting the Reapers, he attacks priority targets in an attempt to take them, destroy them, or disrupt them. Instead of fighting them, they are attacking Civilian population centers, planting indoctrination devices and kidnapping populations. Instead of fighting them, they're trying to remove the Council and take the Citadel. Instead of fighting the Reapers, they're destroying Ship Centers and suffocating the Domes of civilians on colony worlds.
Yes, that's a great way to fight an enemy, do all their work for them, and then join them like Saren.
We don't know what he was going to do with those assets do we? As for why he was attacking civillian population systems, we saw why at Sanctuary. The fact that his actions got in our way doesn't mean the Reapers are telling him to get in our way. Remember TIM is all about the humans, he doesn't care about the Council Races. Just because he was mistaken, doesn't mean he wasn't responsible for his actions.
No, he is responsible for those actions. He founded Cerberus, he is the sole leadership of Cerberus. He sends orders to attack Colonies to capture civilians to indoctrinate them and turn them into Sleeper agents or captured troopers. He's attacking Alliance Fuel Depots, Turian Ship-Building Facilities, resource centers. They even depopulated a Colony by destroying the Life-Support Dome of a Colony. They're attacking everyone, humans included.
When you have the sole authority to lead an organization, you are responsible for its actions. From Rogue Cells to Rogue operations, to openly killing civilians and kidnapping them.
dreman9999 wrote... No, he did not let Sovegin in yet. Sovegin was not in the system yet. if it was the citadel realy would have opened. What Shepard ha is not to distrupt Sovergin but... [color=rgb(170,170,170)">corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give Shepard ]temporary[/color] control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign.... It give Shepard control of the station , not cut off Sovergin.
Point is evidently missed in the last few moments Saren turned over control of the station to Sovereign and engaged Shepard in conversation/combat. It is established within minutes Sovereign would gain full control. The count down starts and Shepard defeats Saren one way or another and uses Vigil's code to take control of systems. Evidently he disrupted Sovereigns link thus prompting him to assume control of Saren's body. Really if Sovereign had shared control of the systems he could open the relay in dark space and win or Shepard and him would engage in "Relay on... Relay off... Relay on... Relay off."
No, your missing that fact that c-ces has control to the relay to the citadel. Saren turned off that relay from c-ces. Also, Saren did not give the citadel to sovergin yet. If he did, the reapers would of been here from ME1, hE DID NOT FINISH.
No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.
TIM is indoctrinated. He is already indoctrinated and has been since the First Contact War (source, Mass Effect: Evolution). The "Reaper signal" Henry Lawson figures out how to usurp is for controlling non-autonomous forces; that is to say, husks. It doesn't matter whether orders to Cerberus forces come from him or the Reapers directly, because as an indoctrinated TIM serves Reaper interests, and one way or another Reaper interests are in the long run served.
That TIM is indoctrinated long before the events of Mass Effect 3 is not speculation. That is explicit, in a source that is canon.
Yes I know that. And yet he fights the reapers in ME2. In ME3 he tries to fight them in his own way too. It's not til the end that he succumbs and decides to help the reapers.
Like Paul Grayson, his own way ends up helping the Reapers divide the Council Races instead of supporting them. Instead of fighting the Reapers, he attacks priority targets in an attempt to take them, destroy them, or disrupt them. Instead of fighting them, they are attacking Civilian population centers, planting indoctrination devices and kidnapping populations. Instead of fighting them, they're trying to remove the Council and take the Citadel. Instead of fighting the Reapers, they're destroying Ship Centers and suffocating the Domes of civilians on colony worlds.
Yes, that's a great way to fight an enemy, do all their work for them, and then join them like Saren.
We don't know what he was going to do with those assets do we? As for why he was attacking civillian population systems, we saw why at Sanctuary. The fact that his actions got in our way doesn't mean the Reapers are telling him to get in our way. Remember TIM is all about the humans, he doesn't care about the Council Races. Just because he was mistaken, doesn't mean he wasn't responsible for his actions.
No, he is responsible for those actions. He founded Cerberus, he is the sole leadership of Cerberus. He sends orders to attack Colonies to capture civilians to indoctrinate them and turn them into Sleeper agents or captured troopers. He's attacking Alliance Fuel Depots, Turian Ship-Building Facilities, resource centers. They even depopulated a Colony by destroying the Life-Support Dome of a Colony. They're attacking everyone, humans included.
When you have the sole authority to lead an organization, you are responsible for its actions. From Rogue Cells to Rogue operations, to openly killing civilians and kidnapping them.
I said he was responsible. And yes, he's doing all this. Not the Reapers.
Yeah he did. He brought Shepard back from the dead. He destroyed the Collectors. That new Human Reaper? gone, before it could do any real harm itself.
He brought back the lone human that garnered special attention from the Reapers, for whatever reason, and kept him/her under tabs. He then proceeded to go extraordinarily out of his way to endear himself to that individual and attempt to sway that individual to his way of thinking.
He then proceeded to put that same human in multiple circumstances that could have ended in capture, death, and/or indoctrination, for at best a razor-thin justification.
Then, he wanted that same individual to not destroy the space station full of Reaper tech. Nothing suspicious there at all. That the base full of Reaper tech was constructing a Reaper was an unforeseen circumstance.
How can he be indoctrinated if the found a way to cut the signal?
He didn't cut their signal, he's subverting it to their own use. They Co-Opted the signal, either mimicked it or rewrote a portion of it.
That's the same thing...He cut the signal from the reapers and changed it to him self. My point is that they can get the reapers influece any more. With no influecne how does he become indoctrinated?
Yeah he did. He brought Shepard back from the dead. He destroyed the Collectors. That new Human Reaper? gone, before it could do any real harm itself.
He brought back the lone human that garnered special attention from the Reapers, for whatever reason, and kept him/her under tabs. He then proceeded to go extraordinarily out of his way to endear himself to that individual and attempt to sway that individual to his way of thinking.
He then proceeded to put that same human in multiple circumstances that could have ended in capture, death, and/or indoctrination, for at best a razor-thin justification.
Then, he wanted that same individual to not destroy the space station full of Reaper tech. Nothing suspicious there at all. That the base full of Reaper tech was constructing a Reaper was an unforeseen circumstance.
The special attention of the reapers came after he got brought back. Before he was the lone human who had been able to stop a reaper. He also went out of his way to not have control over Shepard's mind and to leave it undisturbed. He put the same human in these circumstances because he thought Shepard could take it. If he couldn't then Shepard's not exactly going to make that big an impact is he?
Again not destroying the base fits in with TIM's MO. He wants to use the reapers and their tech, not destroy them.
Yeah he did. He brought Shepard back from the dead. He destroyed the Collectors. That new Human Reaper? gone, before it could do any real harm itself.
He brought back the lone human that garnered special attention from the Reapers, for whatever reason, and kept him/her under tabs. He then proceeded to go extraordinarily out of his way to endear himself to that individual and attempt to sway that individual to his way of thinking.
He then proceeded to put that same human in multiple circumstances that could have ended in capture, death, and/or indoctrination, for at best a razor-thin justification.
Then, he wanted that same individual to not destroy the space station full of Reaper tech. Nothing suspicious there at all. That the base full of Reaper tech was constructing a Reaper was an unforeseen circumstance.
1. He wants to control Shepard to help withhis own vindetta with tht e reaper. If yoy read ME:EVOLUTION , you would know TIM has been getting ready for the reapers a long time. 2.It's Suicide mission meant to get info on the reapers. How would it not have risk in it. He could of give the collector Sheps body and be done with it if TIm was a sleeper Agent. 3.Did you not meet this man? He is all about control, no one should be surprised he would want to take this tech, he took it from Sovergin, why not now?
Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.[/quote] No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak. [/quote]
No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.
[/quote]
He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races. If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control.
Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.
[/quote]That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus. [/quote]
Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races. You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders.
It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.
[/quote]But if they can cutthe signal tothe tech...It can cut the signal to indoctrinated agents. TIm knows all about indoctrination and how we nearly was indoctinated before. I think he would check. I'm not staying he is not indoctianted, just that we don't really know. It can go ether way. It hope BW never tells us. [/quote]
It doesn't work like that, they don't block out indoctrination. A Slave-Rig to a bunch of Conscript soldiers with Reaper implants doesn't help to prevent your leaders with or without said implants. The Husk control signal only affects Reaper forces in a limited radius, and Cerberus never implemented it.
It's not hard to guess, he failed to take precautions, the Reaper tech indoctrinated him, and before long he was eventually making rash decisions. Even Ex-Cerberus members will note that he changed.
[/quote]
Video 2: "I'm still concerned about us losing control of our forces. Some of them are already hearing voices" "When our work at Sanctuary pays off, the only voices they'll be hearing is ours" Video 3: "Sanctuary was a success"
watch from around 15 mins. [/quote]
That doesn't prove anything, only that Cerberus Troopers take orders. TIM has no restraints, no one without implants to prevent him from Rash decisions. Providing a link to a video that shows the pawns are controllable doesn't help. TIM is Indoctrinated, this is not helping your case when it has been shown that those who are indoctrinated will go from trying to fight it to working alongside it.
[/quote]
TIM doesn't have those restraints, which is why he fails in the end after getting himself implanted in that operation we saw at the end of video 3. He believes Jan will stop him from making those mistakes, but apparently she failed. Before that he was resisting the indoctrination himself.
[/quote]
Wow really Cerberus, Im ME Shepard was cleaning their clocks and not even breaking a sweat. Plus the depth of the quotes here is LOL! But don't quote me
Uh no, no I didn't. In fact I just explained this in another post. The only person missing anything here is you for assuming you know what I think or am going to say.[/quote] No, I get what you're saying, you just happen to be completely off base. Cerberus is "the Reaper force" to which you speak. [/quote]
No they're not. Not at that point in the game. While TIM's actions do helo the Reapers by making us fight each other, neither he nor they are commanded by the Reapers at this point. He seeks to control the reapers, he doesn't want to be friends with them. It's only later on when he goes off the deep end.
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He was indoctrinated, the Reapers nudged him to wage war against the Council Races. If he wasn't indoctrinated, he wouldn't have the urge to attack the Citadel, he would have done it when he had the Reapers under his control.
Grayson was a prime example of this, so was Saren.
[/quote]That is a speculation. Reameber, Cerberus learnt how to cut off the reapers signals to their teck. Generally, the reaper nolonger have a way to indoctrinate Cerberus. [/quote]
Remember, the Reapers indoctrinate the Command and leadership echelons of Organic Races. You don't need to indoctrinate an entire race, just the people who can wield Fear and wonder to motivate an army to follow bad orders.
It's not speculation when there is enough evidence and actual discussion of it in the game.
[/quote]But if they can cutthe signal tothe tech...It can cut the signal to indoctrinated agents. TIm knows all about indoctrination and how we nearly was indoctinated before. I think he would check. I'm not staying he is not indoctianted, just that we don't really know. It can go ether way. It hope BW never tells us. [/quote]
It doesn't work like that, they don't block out indoctrination. A Slave-Rig to a bunch of Conscript soldiers with Reaper implants doesn't help to prevent your leaders with or without said implants. The Husk control signal only affects Reaper forces in a limited radius, and Cerberus never implemented it.
It's not hard to guess, he failed to take precautions, the Reaper tech indoctrinated him, and before long he was eventually making rash decisions. Even Ex-Cerberus members will note that he changed.
[/quote]
Video 2: "I'm still concerned about us losing control of our forces. Some of them are already hearing voices" "When our work at Sanctuary pays off, the only voices they'll be hearing is ours" Video 3: "Sanctuary was a success"
watch from around 15 mins. [/quote]
That doesn't prove anything, only that Cerberus Troopers take orders. TIM has no restraints, no one without implants to prevent him from Rash decisions. Providing a link to a video that shows the pawns are controllable doesn't help. TIM is Indoctrinated, this is not helping your case when it has been shown that those who are indoctrinated will go from trying to fight it to working alongside it.
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TIM doesn't have those restraints, which is why he fails in the end after getting himself implanted in that operation we saw at the end of video 3. He believes Jan will stop him from making those mistakes, but apparently she failed. Before that he was resisting the indoctrination himself.
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Wow really Cerberus, Im ME Shepard was cleaning their clocks and not even breaking a sweat. Plus the depth of the quotes here is LOL! But don't quote me [/quote]You can't say that now they are using reaper tech.
Its something called the moron complex if I remember correctly, everyone became dumber in ME3; The reapers, The council(since ME2), and the fleets in the third game and also there was a massive disconnect from the codex to the game. Examples of this are, the thanix cannon entry vs actual in game space battles, and the reaper harvest entry.vs the prothean vi's statements, the normandy being able to escape the reapers by going ftl speeds
By all accounts we never see the full forces of the reapers, we know that at a minimum there are atleast 270 something reapers but we never see the actual amount of reapers, this leads me to beleive that this is an insertion team, nothing more but this insertion team is made to look like the full invasion force.
Now the council, throughout the second game we know that the council has dismissed the reaper claim but not the fact that the control panel for the citadel and the relay network was in their chambers and that vigils data file gave access to the citadels security systems knowing this they should have had scientists working on ways to fully control the station but in ME3 the location of the citadel control panel was retconned for the shepard anderson storyline, and the council no longer meets in the council chambers. Second note the vigil terminal found in ME1 as well as the mass relay conduit were swept under the rug by stating that ilos was powered down with no attempts to repower the facility that could essentially give them the answers they seek as well as knowledge about the prothean down fall, I find it hard to beleive that these are same races that adapted the protheans knowled of space travel and powering systems but could not power up a working prothean facillity or vi terminal to speak and a vi that had all of the necessary information about the citadel to control it and make it function better but once again this was retconned so that we would dismiss Ilos entirely, this became apparent with the thessia mission. The council was made to look like weak willed individuals who even in the first game were not so, in ME1 they were fustrating but they had a point for non action because they had a galaxy to over see in ME3 it doesn't matter they all seem to be weak crying children who cannot make an important decision when the galaxy is involved, point being their image and knowledge were retconned completely in ME3.
The fleet, everything about the reaper war is wrong right down to the tactics used by admiral hackett and the rest of the victory fleet, first off thanix weaponry is not used at all and every firing ship had a 20% hit rate. Not to mention that no one thought to focus their fire on individual reapers to take them out one at a time. In mass effect 1 we see how admiral heckett fought off the geth fleet and sovereign but in ME3, admiral hackett vanishes when it matters most and instead the fleets become a diversionary force for the reaper off button which was somehow hidded away from the reapers fleets, the way mass effect 3 was written undoes the premise that 1 and 2 set forward and that was they we could fight the reapers and give them a run for their money unfortunately that premise was crushed at when we get to priority mars just like the fact that the mars archives were nothing by a small data cache that aided the humans into leaving their solar system, point being ME1 was retconned completely and so was its premise that a united galaxy could pose a threat to the reaper fleet.
point being that ME 1 and ME2 set up that with the reight technology(thanix canons and the new shielding for the normandy) we could fight the reapers conventially but ME3 took that premise and cast it aside in favor of the reaper off swithc and the dumbing down of the story main protagonists and antagonists in favor of the deus ex machina.
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