245 réponses à ce sujet

[Jagri]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No, he did not let Sovegin in yet. Sovegin was not in the system yet. if it was the citadel realy would have opened. What Shepard ha is not to distrupt Sovergin but... [color=rgb(170,170,170)">corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give Shepard ]temporary[/color] control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign.... It give Shepard control of the station , not cut off Sovergin.

Point is evidently missed in the last few moments Saren turned over control of the station to Sovereign and engaged Shepard in conversation/combat. It is established within minutes Sovereign would gain full control. The count down starts and Shepard defeats Saren one way or another and uses Vigil's code to take control of systems. Evidently he disrupted Sovereigns link thus prompting him to assume control of Saren's body. Really if Sovereign had shared control of the systems he could open the relay in dark space and win or Shepard and him would engage in "Relay on... Relay off... Relay on... Relay off."

No, your missing that fact that c-ces has control to the relay to  the citadel. Saren turned off that relay from c-ces. Also, Saren did not give the citadel to sovergin yet. If he did, the reapers would of been here from ME1, hE DID NOT FINISH. 

 (3:41)

Ashley: "before he regains control of the station" 

Yes she says before Sovereign regains control of the station.

Modifié par Jagri, 07 mai 2012 - 05:56 .

[humes spork]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. He wants to control Shepard to help withhis own vindetta with tht e reaper. If yoy read ME:EVOLUTION , you would know TIM has been getting ready for the reapers a long time.
2.It's Suicide mission meant to get info on the reapers. How would it not have risk in it. He could of give the collector Sheps body and be done with it if TIm was a sleeper Agent.
3.Did you not meet this man? He is all about control, no one should be surprised he would want to take this tech, he took it from Sovergin, why not now?

1. TIM was also indoctrinated for a long time. Case in point, ME: Evolution when he's indoctrinated.
3. ...and has been demonstrated time and again throughout the ME games and extended universe, a desire to seek out, use, possess, hoard, and control Reaper tech -- up to and actually including Reapers themselves -- is a sign of what again?

Modifié par humes spork, 07 mai 2012 - 05:55 .

[PsyrenY]

The Angry One wrote...

Which they could easily get back on track for  an advantage.

There are only two things in the Citadel they could want - census data and relay control.

Census Data: What advantage could that possibly give them when they already know where the homeworlds are?

Relay Control: I agree with you that this should have been explained. But it's pretty evident they can't do that, or they'd have locked the Crucible and the fleets out, then picked them off as they FTL'ed in conventionally. So it's easy to handwave.

No. It is not. That you pretend it is, is an insult to Mass Effect's genuine writers.

No True Scotsman Fallacy.
"This example isn't justified because I personally dislike it" is no argument.

The Angry One wrote...
It is YOUR assumption that the sabotage is irreparable. Not mine. Do not presume to make me justify your speculations.

I never said it was irreparable, merely that it isn't as easy to repair as you are assuming.

The Angry One wrote...
There's a difference between "flawed" and "completely ignorant of their own technology".

Just because they understand their technology does not mean it is easy to repair the sabotage.
Reinstalling windows when someone bricks your computer is easy, but it still takes time. Recovering all your software intact takes even more.

The Angry One wrote...
It means exactly that.

So you really believe reformatting your PC is the way to clear viruses off it? How do you manage to keep any of your data?

The Angry One wrote...

Because as we know, the Citadel is a biological entity and not a machine.

It's a complex system. It has to be if it's true functions have been hidden from the galaxy's greatest scientists (including the super-inquisitive Salarians) for decades. Don't dodge analogies you can't counter.

The Angry One wrote...
Spoon-fed? These are BASIC DETAILS. The FOUNDATION of a plot! You need to answer these questions first or the plot simply doesn't work!
My god!

"They can't control the relays because of the sabotage in ME1." Is that so hard a thought to form in your head?

[HBC Dresden]

To OP: regarding germ warfare, the Reaper Destroyer on Tuchanka was defending the Shroud instead of destroying it because it was using the tower to spread poisons throughout the atmosphere.

But really, it makes sense once you realize the Reapers are overconfident and want to harvest all organic life. To do this, they cannot wipe out planets and they cannot use the relays as chokepoints. They need to go to homeworlds and physically harvest the population.

Also, if you read planet descriptions, the Reapers do unleash the full of their might on expendable colonies and stations around gas giants, all to cripple starship fueling infrastructure while considering the fleets guarding them as acceptable loses.

[KingZayd]

humes spork wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. He wants to control Shepard to help withhis own vindetta with tht e reaper. If yoy read ME:EVOLUTION , you would know TIM has been getting ready for the reapers a long time.
2.It's Suicide mission meant to get info on the reapers. How would it not have risk in it. He could of give the collector Sheps body and be done with it if TIm was a sleeper Agent.
3.Did you not meet this man? He is all about control, no one should be surprised he would want to take this tech, he took it from Sovergin, why not now?

1. TIM was also indoctrinated for a long time. Case in point, ME: Evolution when he's indoctrinated.
3. ...and has been demonstrated time and again throughout the ME games and extended universe, a desire to seek out, use, possess and control Reaper tech up to and actually including Reapers themselves is a sign of what again?

based on what? a sample of 1, Saren?

Also, the Collectors were trying to obtain Shepard's body. They'd hired the Shadow broker to procure it.

[dreman9999]

iorveth1271 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.After it was left unguarded.

No.

2.Yes, it was unprotected. Everythting was sent to the final battle...It was unguarded. One force was sent to cerberus. The reast were sent to get ready for the finall attack on earth.

The attack on Cerberus was before this. Also, do you really think they were stupid enough to leave the Citadel unguarded after it had already been attacked once?

3.Because he used Saren to do it...You get that  he had a clear reason of doing it. Also, Saren was tryng to open the citadel Relay. No hook Sovergin to the citadel.

Saren's only role was to get Sovereign inside the Citadel.
Sovereign was directly connected to the Citadel, you are wrong.

1. Yes.
2. It was during the perperation of this.
3. No, it was not the Geth could do that. The main problem was the keepers and the citadel fleet. Sovegin can hook up on his own. The citadel relay had to be over ran at the control panel to work. Saren was a few buttom presses away.

1. No. The Fifth Fleet attacked the Cerberus Base. There is never any mention of the Citadel being left unguarded. The preparation and gathering of fleets started afterwards. Proof: http://www.youtube.c...GuD0yhbzM#t=76s

Never any mention of other fleets before that or after that. It was a Fifth Fleet-only operation. Check the wikia entry about Cerberus too if you don't believe me still.

2. See above.

Just replayed the start of the mission..There is no mention of which fleets are attacking Cerberus. Also, the mobalization of the fleet starts before you attack Cerberus. http://www.youtube.c...iFHqKD4qE#t=52s

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 mai 2012 - 06:02 .

[dreman9999]

humes spork wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. He wants to control Shepard to help withhis own vindetta with tht e reaper. If yoy read ME:EVOLUTION , you would know TIM has been getting ready for the reapers a long time.
2.It's Suicide mission meant to get info on the reapers. How would it not have risk in it. He could of give the collector Sheps body and be done with it if TIm was a sleeper Agent.
3.Did you not meet this man? He is all about control, no one should be surprised he would want to take this tech, he took it from Sovergin, why not now?

1. TIM was also indoctrinated for a long time. Case in point, ME: Evolution when he's indoctrinated.
3. ...and has been demonstrated time and again throughout the ME games and extended universe, a desire to seek out, use, possess, hoard, and control Reaper tech -- up to and actually including Reapers themselves -- is a sign of what again?

1. If he was indoctrianted a long time ago, the Turians would be with the reapers. Read ME:Evolution.
3.But the influence is to advance humanity, which as been shown as a motive since ME1 with the rachi, thorum,the enzo accedents,the rogue LUNA VI,  the normandy, the test on biotic childen, and progect overlord. Much of what is used to stop the reapers came from TIM I hope you know.

[dreman9999]

HBC Dresden wrote...



Also, if you read planet descriptions, the Reapers do unleash the full of their might on expendable colonies and stations around gas giants, all to cripple starship fueling infrastructure while considering the fleets guarding them as acceptable loses.

That not the same thing as their full force. The reaper s can glass planets, and blow up systems. Destory a fuel station isnot the same league as their full power.

[humes spork]

KingZayd wrote...

based on what? a sample of 1, Saren?

Off the top of my head? Okay, here we go...

Saren (as you just said), Desolas, Shu Qian, the batarian hegemony, Edan Had'dah, Kenson was using Object Rho for information on arrival and ended up indoctrinated in the process...

[incinerator950]

@soulprovider

There has been a massive disconnection of the codex from the game since ME 1.

[dreman9999]

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No, he did not let Sovegin in yet. Sovegin was not in the system yet. if it was the citadel realy would have opened. What Shepard ha is not to distrupt Sovergin but... [color=rgb(170,170,170)">corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give Shepard ]temporary[/color] control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign.... It give Shepard control of the station , not cut off Sovergin.

Point is evidently missed in the last few moments Saren turned over control of the station to Sovereign and engaged Shepard in conversation/combat. It is established within minutes Sovereign would gain full control. The count down starts and Shepard defeats Saren one way or another and uses Vigil's code to take control of systems. Evidently he disrupted Sovereigns link thus prompting him to assume control of Saren's body. Really if Sovereign had shared control of the systems he could open the relay in dark space and win or Shepard and him would engage in "Relay on... Relay off... Relay on... Relay off."

No, your missing that fact that c-ces has control to the relay to  the citadel. Saren turned off that relay from c-ces. Also, Saren did not give the citadel to sovergin yet. If he did, the reapers would of been here from ME1, hE DID NOT FINISH. 

 (3:41)

Ashley: "before he regains control of the station" 

Yes she says before Sovereign regains control of the station.

Can you even point to a timehe had control first? If Sovergin over rides the keeper he would be regain the control of the station any way.

[Jagri]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No, he did not let Sovegin in yet. Sovegin was not in the system yet. if it was the citadel realy would have opened. What Shepard ha is not to distrupt Sovergin but... [color=rgb(170,170,170)">corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give Shepard ]temporary[/color] control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign.... It give Shepard control of the station , not cut off Sovergin.

Point is evidently missed in the last few moments Saren turned over control of the station to Sovereign and engaged Shepard in conversation/combat. It is established within minutes Sovereign would gain full control. The count down starts and Shepard defeats Saren one way or another and uses Vigil's code to take control of systems. Evidently he disrupted Sovereigns link thus prompting him to assume control of Saren's body. Really if Sovereign had shared control of the systems he could open the relay in dark space and win or Shepard and him would engage in "Relay on... Relay off... Relay on... Relay off."

No, your missing that fact that c-ces has control to the relay to  the citadel. Saren turned off that relay from c-ces. Also, Saren did not give the citadel to sovergin yet. If he did, the reapers would of been here from ME1, hE DID NOT FINISH. 

 (3:41)

Ashley: "before he regains control of the station" 

Yes she says before Sovereign regains control of the station.

Can you even point to a timehe had control first? If Sovergin over rides the keeper he would be regain the control of the station any way.

Doesn't matter point is made Sovereign had control at one point or was establishing it. Vigil code was used and control was taken away and Ash told Shepard to hurry up before Sovereign regains control. My point is made.

[M_Kirkwall]

They don't bomb the planets so they can harvest us, and store our lives in a Reaper form. Basically they wish to extend their numbers. If they bombed every civilization every 50,000 years, some civilizations are bound to take 10 - 20 Reapers (wild guess) so they would go extinct after 10 cycles or so. That's why they don't bomb us.

[KingZayd]

humes spork wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

based on what? a sample of 1, Saren?

Off the top of my head? Okay, here we go...

Saren (as you just said), Desolas, Shu Qian, the batarian hegemony, Edan Had'dah, Kenson was using Object Rho for information on arrival and ended up indoctrinated in the process...

Desolas, Shu Qian, the Batarian hegemony and Kenson were indoctrinated as a result of messing with these artifacts. It wasn't what caused them to seek them out.

Had'dah's indoctrination did however make him want to study that artifact further.

[incinerator950]

rev0n wrote...

They don't bomb the planets so they can harvest us, and store our lives in a Reaper form. Basically they wish to extend their numbers. If they bombed every civilization every 50,000 years, some civilizations are bound to take 10 - 20 Reapers (wild guess) so they would go extinct after 10 cycles or so. That's why they don't bomb us.

Several planets that show previous cycle colonies being bombed from orbit. 

Allers goes off into her depressive mood when she hears that Beckenstein was glassed from orbit from the Reapers.  Her email also describes it if you can't stomach talking to her.

Also funny, because Beckenstein Wakes have more alcohol then the Irish.  Which isn't the biggest joke, Irish people are not the worst alcoholics.

[humes spork]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. If he was indoctrianted a long time ago, the Turians would be with the reapers. Read ME:Evolution.
3.But the influence is to advance humanity, which as been shown as a motive since ME1 with the rachi, thorum,the enzo accedents,the rogue LUNA VI,  the normandy, the test on biotic childen, and progect overlord. Much of what is used to stop the reapers came from TIM I hope you know.

Damn, and here I thought Evolution ended with TIM concluding Desolas and his goals were correct, and that Saren destroyed the monolith(s) with an orbital bombardment.

I must have been reading Bizarro Evolution or something.

[Cyne]

dreman9999 wrote...

 The thing I'm pointing out is that, we never seethe reapers glass a planet or bombard it to nothing. With the reapers numbers and force they can do it with easy.
Also, the reaper never use germ warfare, which they can easilly do with the history with manipulating flesh. They also shownthat they can do this on Mordin's recuit mission with the omega plague and at that it it was used only to test organics.They can make a new version that can effect all races.
And then they are never seen using warp bomb tech. With the destruction of the mass relay in Arrival, one would think they could take something tha destructive and reifine it....In can be used to destroy planets...

Just a thing I want to point out to people who think we can win convetionally.

And they never seem to move very quickly, or change directions easily. Joker said something about Soveriegn making a turn that would "shred our ships in half" (paraphrasing here) if they tried it. Yet in ME3 they appear to have difficultly moving.

Here's a theory: they deliberately did not go all out, because they wanted to give organics a chance to survive. They've come to recognize that Shepard, and by extension the human race, doesn't deserve to die. Or maybe they were simply tired of killing civilizations over and over and actually wanted to be destroyed.

[humes spork]

KingZayd wrote...

Desolas, Shu Qian, the Batarian hegemony and Kenson were indoctrinated as a result of messing with these artifacts. It wasn't what caused them to seek them out.

Neither did any of them exactly want to stop what they were doing, or lose interest, when (if) it was pointed out to them it might be a bad idea to mess with Reaper tech, either.

[KingZayd]

humes spork wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Desolas, Shu Qian, the Batarian hegemony and Kenson were indoctrinated as a result of messing with these artifacts. It wasn't what caused them to seek them out.

Neither did any of them exactly want to stop what they were doing, or lose interest, when (if) it was pointed out to them it might be a bad idea to mess with Reaper tech, either.

Neither of them helped Shepard to stop the reapers either. TIM has been fighting his indoctrination for a good while. He fails in the end, but his philosophy of using the reapers tech is not just part of the indoctrination. He manages to make use of indoctrination himself, and he is able to control reaper forces (which is probably why he's able to make it to the Citadel in the first place. It's not as if they needed him there is it?). I agree that in the end, he fails like Saren. But that doesn't mean everything he did before was for the reapers.

Until that operation that happens after video 3, he probably doesn't have any direct interaction with reapers or their artifacts (excluding the one that introduced the reaper taint in the first place) himself. In that very video he tells us that he's aware of the risks.

Modifié par KingZayd, 07 mai 2012 - 06:31 .

[dreman9999]

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No, he did not let Sovegin in yet. Sovegin was not in the system yet. if it was the citadel realy would have opened. What Shepard ha is not to distrupt Sovergin but... [color=rgb(170,170,170)">corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give Shepard ]temporary[/color] control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign.... It give Shepard control of the station , not cut off Sovergin.

Point is evidently missed in the last few moments Saren turned over control of the station to Sovereign and engaged Shepard in conversation/combat. It is established within minutes Sovereign would gain full control. The count down starts and Shepard defeats Saren one way or another and uses Vigil's code to take control of systems. Evidently he disrupted Sovereigns link thus prompting him to assume control of Saren's body. Really if Sovereign had shared control of the systems he could open the relay in dark space and win or Shepard and him would engage in "Relay on... Relay off... Relay on... Relay off."

No, your missing that fact that c-ces has control to the relay to  the citadel. Saren turned off that relay from c-ces. Also, Saren did not give the citadel to sovergin yet. If he did, the reapers would of been here from ME1, hE DID NOT FINISH. 

 (3:41)

Ashley: "before he regains control of the station" 

Yes she says before Sovereign regains control of the station.

Can you even point to a timehe had control first? If Sovergin over rides the keeper he would be regain the control of the station any way.

Doesn't matter point is made Sovereign had control at one point or was establishing it. Vigil code was used and control was taken away and Ash told Shepard to hurry up before Sovereign regains control. My point is made.

Yes , it does. If he had control before...Why not open the relay. He's an AI. It would take him micro second to go through the system his race made ifhe had access.Put, theirs the hole possibility with the fight with Saren  which would give him more time to open the relay as well. Also, Ash is not a tech expert. 

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No, he did not let Sovegin in yet. Sovegin was not in the system yet. if it was the citadel realy would have opened. What Shepard ha is not to distrupt Sovergin but... [color=rgb(170,170,170)">corrupt the Citadel's security protocols and give Shepard ]temporary[/color] control over the station. It might give you a chance against Sovereign.... It give Shepard control of the station , not cut off Sovergin.

Point is evidently missed in the last few moments Saren turned over control of the station to Sovereign and engaged Shepard in conversation/combat. It is established within minutes Sovereign would gain full control. The count down starts and Shepard defeats Saren one way or another and uses Vigil's code to take control of systems. Evidently he disrupted Sovereigns link thus prompting him to assume control of Saren's body. Really if Sovereign had shared control of the systems he could open the relay in dark space and win or Shepard and him would engage in "Relay on... Relay off... Relay on... Relay off."

No, your missing that fact that c-ces has control to the relay to  the citadel. Saren turned off that relay from c-ces. Also, Saren did not give the citadel to sovergin yet. If he did, the reapers would of been here from ME1, hE DID NOT FINISH. 

 (3:41)

Ashley: "before he regains control of the station" 

Yes she says before Sovereign regains control of the station.

Can you even point to a timehe had control first? If Sovergin over rides the keeper he would be regain the control of the station any way.

Doesn't matter point is made Sovereign had control at one point or was establishing it. Vigil code was used and control was taken away and Ash told Shepard to hurry up before Sovereign regains control. My point is made.

Yes , it does. If he had control before...Why not open the relay. He's an AI. It would take him micro second to go through the system his race made ifhe had access.Put, theirs the hole possibility with the fight with Saren  which would give him more time to open the relay as well. Also, Ash is not a tech expert. 

Maybe opening the relay takes more time? locking the relays bought Sovereign more time. As we can see, Sovereign was left rather exposed.

[humes spork]

KingZayd wrote...

But that doesn't mean everything he did before was for the reapers.

Odd then, that while it wasn't "for" the Reapers it certainly, and consistently, furthered their interests. He may have thought he was fighting the Reapers, but from the point of Evolution onwards he was still a high-functioning indoctrinated. The "help" TIM gave to Shepard was in the end iunintentional, given that TIM heavily sought to persuade Shepard to his line of thought, with the end goal of coopting Reaper tech through Shepard, and Shepard ended up betraying TIM in the end.

Modifié par humes spork, 07 mai 2012 - 06:38 .

[KingZayd]

humes spork wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

But that doesn't mean everything he did before was for the reapers.

Odd then, that while it wasn't "for" the Reapers it certainly, and consistently, furthered their interests. He may have thought he was fighting the Reapers, but from the point of Evolution onwards he was still a high-functioning indoctrinated.

It furthered their interests because it always clashed with Shepard's plans. Which his interests did too.

Shepard was also hit by a similar artifact in Arrival. Therefore he is also a high-functioning indoctrinated. He still manages to fight the reapers.

[Jagri]

dreman9999 wrote...
Yes , it does. If he had control before...Why not open the relay. He's an AI. It would take him micro second to go through the system his race made ifhe had access.Put, theirs the hole possibility with the fight with Saren  which would give him more time to open the relay as well. Also, Ash is not a tech expert. 

 (4:00)

Kaiden says the exact same thing as Ashley and he is a Sentinel with a richer experiance in the tech field. Now the characters within the universe establish Sovereign had control at one point of the Citadel and that he could regain control again so they need take haste in their actions.

Appearently Sovereign needs time to access the system given what Saren said. Really how much more does this dead horse need to be beat?

Modifié par Jagri, 07 mai 2012 - 06:47 .

[KingZayd]

Jagri wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yes , it does. If he had control before...Why not open the relay. He's an AI. It would take him micro second to go through the system his race made ifhe had access.Put, theirs the hole possibility with the fight with Saren  which would give him more time to open the relay as well. Also, Ash is not a tech expert. 

 (4:00)

Kaiden says the exact same thing as Ashley and he is a Sentinel with a richer experiance in the tech field. Now the characters within the universe establish Sovereign had control at one point of the Citadel and that he could regain control again so they need take haste in their actions.

Appearently Sovereign needs time to access the system given what Saren said. Really how much more does this dead horse need to be beat?

Not that I'm disagreeing with your main point, but isn't Kaiden a Vanguard? he had the same abilities as I did.

EDIT: nvm guess i was wrong.

Modifié par KingZayd, 07 mai 2012 - 06:48 .