232 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

bluewolv1970 wrote...
really including the corpsicles...and is the squad SMILING when they get out of the normandy - including shepards LI and the pilot that just mutinied??? are they just excited Shepard is dead and or missing and Earth was ravaged???  

In order.....

Corpsicles? I'm not up on IT jargon -- what are you talking about?

Smiling -- because they lived through a crash and the Reapers are finished?

Mutinied? You don't have any way to know that. If you want to play the "Normandy leaving Earth is a plothole" card, feel free, but you can't just declare a reason here.

And Earth ain't any more ravaged by the last scene than it was before the ending. Well, unless you went into the endgame with low EMS and the Crucible blew Earth up, but  I don't recall that the Normandy crew survives in those endings.

[AlanC9]

Izhalezan wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Why ME1 ever happened if the catalyst is in control


He isn't in direct control. Without the catalyst he can't do anything -- otherwise the blue ending would be the easiest to achieve, and it is not. He only controls the Reapers in the sense that they follow their original programming.

What..? The Catalyst isn't in direct control of the Catalyst?
I'm going on a limb and assuming his question was more "Why does ME1 happen when the creator of everything Reaper has been on the Citadel the whole time, why didn't he just open the relay himself?"

Typo. I meant to say that without the Crucible he can't do anything. The control ending depends on whether you have the EMS points for this function.

[Kaelef]

ME 3 wrote...

You can't fill in plotholes then assume that the IT is correct.
That's just silly.
They are called plotholes because they are holes/mistakes in the story that won't prove anything.

Just because IT could fill some plotholes, that doesn't mean its true.
I can't explain why there are plotholes because they are plotholes, their not supposed to be explainable.
You are a fool

Sorry, that's way too logical and does not belong in this thread.

[RyuujinZERO]

OP: I believe you're confusing with a refutation of one explanation, with the concept of having an alternative explanation, a strawman of sorts.

The position of anti-IT individuals is actually:
A does not provide a satisifactory explanation

Which you are misrepresenting as:
A does not provide a satisfactory explanation, therefore they believe B is true.

Anti-IT proponents do not have an alternative explanation for the plot holes. They merely do not feel IT is an adequate or correct explanation; which is a perfectly valid position inc ritical thinking, to admit "you don't know" instead of trying to jam a half baked explanation into it.

Thread finished


(Imagine the mess science would be if getting one theory approved required you merely debunk the existing theory... I propose tiny pink unicorns are responsible for [some quantum effect]. The existing model is clearly inaccurate. Therefore it's tiny pink unicorns")

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 07 mai 2012 - 05:56 .

[ME 3]

@Kalef

I know, I give the thread and you my sincerest apologies.

Modifié par ME 3, 07 mai 2012 - 05:52 .

[floppypig16]

My god people are retarded. The IT doesn't fill plot holes, it dismisses them! Big Difference.

Yes, the ending may have plot holes in some people's opinions. But that doesn't mean by coming up with some theory that dismisses them that suddenly that theory holds true.

Here is one thing I always here:

Why would Harbinger fly away and how come your squad is on the normandy?
Um, there's a war going on!?! Everyone thinks the ground team is dead, that's why there's an order to pull-back. And that's what your squad does, pulls back. What, you want Garrus to go blindly running around and get himself killed looking for what is ultimately your mangled corpse. He thinks you're dead, so he high tails it out of there. I mean, you pretty much are dead, you barely get up. Also, don't forget the Reapers are over-confident. That's portrayed through-out the entire game (listen to the dialogue).

THis is basically what you IT people are saying. The fact that Harbinger left and your squad pulled back means your indoctrinated.

^Read the above sentence again.Yup, there you go. One more time. Realise how retarded that sounds.

I get it, I do. You didn't like the ending. So what you do is you take every small thing you can and you shape it. You mold it so it fits something your happy, or at least content with. Its human nature. In fact, its basically religion in a nut shell. In the words of Sherlock Holmes, you shape facts to fit theories, instead of theories to shape facts.

Destroy is painted as renegade becuase the Reapers don't want you to choose this...
Okay, what about people who think playing renegade is the way to go? Since when does Paragon = correct, Renegade = wrong. This is one of the stupidist reasons I've heard.

Shepard is hurt exactly where Anderson is shot?
And he was hurt there even before he shot Anderson. Also, since Anderson and the illusive Man are figments of his imagination, how come Shepard doesn't have a gaping wound in his brain when the illusive man shoots himself? Yeah, explain that away to me Einstein.

Step back people, get over your denial, man up, face facts. Your theory is incorrect. Deal with it.

[Icemix]

slyguy200 wrote...

ME 3 wrote...

You can't fill in plotholes then assume that the IT is correct.
That's just silly.
They are called plotholes because they are holes/mistakes in the story that won't prove anything.

Just because IT could fill some plotholes, that doesn't mean its true.
I can't explain why there are plotholes because they are plotholes, their not supposed to be explainable.
You are a fool

Once someone comes up with something better, i will dismiss the IT. But only then.

IT dismisses itself. Time to move along.

[jpraelster93]

Icemix wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

ME 3 wrote...

You can't fill in plotholes then assume that the IT is correct.
That's just silly.
They are called plotholes because they are holes/mistakes in the story that won't prove anything.

Just because IT could fill some plotholes, that doesn't mean its true.
I can't explain why there are plotholes because they are plotholes, their not supposed to be explainable.
You are a fool

Once someone comes up with something better, i will dismiss the IT. But only then.

IT dismisses itself. Time to move along.

i would rather believe the it then believe the ending we got sucked so the it is MY ENDING

[floppypig16]

jpraelster93 wrote...

Icemix wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

ME 3 wrote...

You can't fill in plotholes then assume that the IT is correct.
That's just silly.
They are called plotholes because they are holes/mistakes in the story that won't prove anything.

Just because IT could fill some plotholes, that doesn't mean its true.
I can't explain why there are plotholes because they are plotholes, their not supposed to be explainable.
You are a fool

Once someone comes up with something better, i will dismiss the IT. But only then.

IT dismisses itself. Time to move along.

i would rather believe the it then believe the ending we got sucked so the it is MY ENDING

Like i said, religion. I don't understand the world so I'm going to believe in an all-powerful force in the sky that can make anything happen to explain away anything I don't understand. Same concept. Are you a religious person by any chance?

[RyuujinZERO]

jpraelster93 wrote...

i would rather believe the it then believe the ending we got sucked so the it is MY ENDING

I'm beginning to see how religion works <.< - it's kinder on the brain in some circumsatnces to imagine than to than to face reality.

...it's still imaginary at the end of the day though.

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 07 mai 2012 - 06:01 .

[DoctorEss]

See, here's the thing. The burden of proof is on the claimant. You are claiming IT is true.

Prove it.

You cannot. However, evidence exists to the contrary. Bioware stating the endings are as-is, for instance. Stating that they are what was intended. Which means IT was not intended.

IT is fanfic, nothing more, nothing less. Fanfic masquerading as a conspiracy theory. Of COURSE it fills all the plot holes. That's the point. It's not like you cleverly happened upon an ancient text that already had IT written in it. The IT people made it up, specifically tailoring it to fit.

The EC just clarifies the existing endings, not changes them. If it was going to change them, then IT could be legit. It's not, so it's not.

IT also introduces a whole host of flaws of it's own, and plot holes, and things left woefully, ridiculously unexplained.

Not the least of which is that indoctrination is impossible, let me say that again, IMPOSSIBLE to ever break out of.

Sure, brief moments of control can be gained by the strong willed (Benezia, Saren), but as both of them clearly state, that control is very temporary, and they will never be the same again.

Even look at Rana Thanoptis. Appeared fine. Went on murder spree.

That would mean that the galaxy's greatest hero would have to be put down like a sick dog because of indoctrination.

IT is just fanfic. I'm sorry, but it is. Conspiracy theory fanfic.

[jpraelster93]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

i would rather believe the it then believe the ending we got sucked so the it is MY ENDING

I'm beginning to see how religion works <.< - it's kinder on the brain in some circumsatnces to imagine than to than to face reality.

...it's still imaginary at the end of the day though.

you have any proof of this

[jpraelster93]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Why your squad is on the normandy

Why ME1 ever happened if the catalyst is in control

start there.

I apologize, I had to leave for a calc class.

1. How is this impossible? The last we saw them:

We were running towards the elevator. Now, please show me if there's a clip of them dying to Harbinger's blast wave, but I've seen no proof of that. Thus:

Harby shoots Shep

People running around, behind him run away. Harby moves away

Shep wakes up, etc.

None of this precludes people that were on the gound from going back to safety and getting on the Normandy.

2. What? ME1 happened because at that time we knew nothing of the Crucible, and the Catalyst still of course wanted to use his solution.


Next?

your squad would never abandon you neither would joker or YOUR LI

Modifié par jpraelster93, 07 mai 2012 - 06:04 .

[floppypig16]

I think at this point in time we need to get a quote from House up in this ****:

"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people"

Just exchange religious for "IT believers"

[jpraelster93]

floppypig16 wrote...

I think at this point in time we need to get a quote from House up in this ****:

"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people"

Just exchange religious for "IT believers"

same thing for science just as many holes in their beliefs too its like that for ANYTHING

[floppypig16]

jpraelster93 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Why your squad is on the normandy

Why ME1 ever happened if the catalyst is in control

start there.

I apologize, I had to leave for a calc class.

1. How is this impossible? The last we saw them:

We were running towards the elevator. Now, please show me if there's a clip of them dying to Harbinger's blast wave, but I've seen no proof of that. Thus:

Harby shoots Shep

People running around, behind him run away. Harby moves away

Shep wakes up, etc.

None of this precludes people that were on the gound from going back to safety and getting on the Normandy.

2. What? ME1 happened because at that time we knew nothing of the Crucible, and the Catalyst still of course wanted to use his solution.


Next?

your squad would never abandon you neither would joker or YOUR LI

Strange. They did at the beginning of ME2 when they thought you died. Just like they did again when they thought  Harby lasered the **** out of you! 

[floppypig16]

jpraelster93 wrote...

floppypig16 wrote...

I think at this point in time we need to get a quote from House up in this ****:

"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people"

Just exchange religious for "IT believers"

same thing for science just as many holes in their beliefs too its like that for ANYTHING

Oh jesus, I don't even know where to begin on that.....

[DiebytheSword]

floppypig16 wrote...

I think at this point in time we need to get a quote from House up in this ****:

"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people"

Just exchange religious for "IT believers"

classy, insults in insults.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 07 mai 2012 - 06:11 .

[jpraelster93]

floppypig16 wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Why your squad is on the normandy

Why ME1 ever happened if the catalyst is in control

start there.

I apologize, I had to leave for a calc class.

1. How is this impossible? The last we saw them:

We were running towards the elevator. Now, please show me if there's a clip of them dying to Harbinger's blast wave, but I've seen no proof of that. Thus:

Harby shoots Shep

People running around, behind him run away. Harby moves away

Shep wakes up, etc.

None of this precludes people that were on the gound from going back to safety and getting on the Normandy.

2. What? ME1 happened because at that time we knew nothing of the Crucible, and the Catalyst still of course wanted to use his solution.


Next?

your squad would never abandon you neither would joker or YOUR LI

Strange. They did at the beginning of ME2 when they thought you died. Just like they did again when they thought  Harby lasered the **** out of you! 

in mass effect 2 YOU DID DIE you were brought back to life

[RyuujinZERO]

jpraelster93 wrote...

you have any proof of this

Of what? - A god's non-existance? - That's not how burden of proof works.

The burden of proof always lies with the claim that a phenomena exists. ie. if I were to propose Yeti exist, I would have to present undeniable proof of the Yeti's existance. 

[floppypig16]

jpraelster93 wrote...

floppypig16 wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Why your squad is on the normandy

Why ME1 ever happened if the catalyst is in control

start there.

I apologize, I had to leave for a calc class.

1. How is this impossible? The last we saw them:

We were running towards the elevator. Now, please show me if there's a clip of them dying to Harbinger's blast wave, but I've seen no proof of that. Thus:

Harby shoots Shep

People running around, behind him run away. Harby moves away

Shep wakes up, etc.

None of this precludes people that were on the gound from going back to safety and getting on the Normandy.

2. What? ME1 happened because at that time we knew nothing of the Crucible, and the Catalyst still of course wanted to use his solution.


Next?

your squad would never abandon you neither would joker or YOUR LI

Strange. They did at the beginning of ME2 when they thought you died. Just like they did again when they thought  Harby lasered the **** out of you! 

in mass effect 2 YOU DID DIE you were brought back to life

Way to miss the point....

[jpraelster93]

floppypig16 wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

floppypig16 wrote...

jpraelster93 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slyguy200 wrote...

Why your squad is on the normandy

Why ME1 ever happened if the catalyst is in control

start there.

I apologize, I had to leave for a calc class.

1. How is this impossible? The last we saw them:

We were running towards the elevator. Now, please show me if there's a clip of them dying to Harbinger's blast wave, but I've seen no proof of that. Thus:

Harby shoots Shep

People running around, behind him run away. Harby moves away

Shep wakes up, etc.

None of this precludes people that were on the gound from going back to safety and getting on the Normandy.

2. What? ME1 happened because at that time we knew nothing of the Crucible, and the Catalyst still of course wanted to use his solution.


Next?

your squad would never abandon you neither would joker or YOUR LI

Strange. They did at the beginning of ME2 when they thought you died. Just like they did again when they thought  Harby lasered the **** out of you! 

in mass effect 2 YOU DID DIE you were brought back to life

Way to miss the point....

Its not missing the point it was confirmed he died joker saw it happen