319 réponses à ce sujet

[kalikilic]

1. Mr. starchild would still have existed in that ending and the game would've still turned on its head with that familiar sense that everything that you have done up to that point has been betrayed and trivialized.

2. No. There is only one reason why this will not work and which is the root of all other reasons.. See above.

Modifié par kalikilic, 08 mai 2012 - 12:22 .

[jijeebo]

If it only destroyed the reapers I probably would have chosen it over control.

As it stands... I'd rather save the geth and control the reapers.

[unoriginalname1133]

MisterJB wrote...

Right, let us approach a very complex problem that has defined the Milky Way for billions of years in the most simplistic way possible. Blow sh*t up.
Just the fact that you are referring to the Reapers as "the bad guys" proves how short-sigthed you are being.

Is there actually any debate that the Reapers are the bad guys? I can't imagine anyone arguing that genocide isn't a bad thing, and the Reapers have committed genocide countless times. It doesn't matter why they did it; some things are just downright evil, genocide among them

[d-boy15]

the game tell players agian and again how evil reaper are.

then in last 10 minutes, writers think they can convince us with a few sentence? especially from
the one who clam to be the reaper boss who has stupid logic.

Modifié par d-boy15, 08 mai 2012 - 12:25 .

[KingZayd]

MisterJB wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
LOL, yeah, killing the bad guys is such a terrible thing. Much better to keep them as they are or submit to their agenda.

Right, let us approach a very complex problem that has defined the Milky Way for billions of years in the most simplistic way possible. Blow sh*t up.
Just the fact that you are referring to the Reapers as "the bad guys" proves how short-sigthed you are being.

The problem that has defined the Milky way for over a billion years? The reapers.

The ones responsible for at least thousands (approaching millions) of genocides? The reapers.

Genocides are bad. Reapers regularly commit genocide. Reapers regularly do bad things. No evidence that Reapers ever do good things. Therefore Reapers are bad. Reapers are the bad guys.

As for solving this problem: After the reapers are blown up, are there any reapers? No? Problem solved.

Modifié par KingZayd, 08 mai 2012 - 12:27 .

[Phaedra Sanguine]

 See this is what's great about the endings. You can't just easily choose one, you have to mull them over, and over, and over and over.

[Sarevok Synder]

-Draikin- wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Just the fact that you are referring to the Reapers as "the bad guys" proves how short-sigthed you are being.

The games don't show us a single redeeming aspect to the Reapers. Not one.  So yes, they really are the bad guys, and the only trying to convince us otherwise is the "Reaper overmind" in the final 5 minutes of the game.

Yeah, we went from Sovereign telling us it was beyond our comprehension and we didn't matter anyway, to starbrat telling us a story of such inept proportions, you'd scold a child for telling it. What the hell were the writers thinking?

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 08 mai 2012 - 12:28 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

d-boy15 wrote...

the game tell players agian and again how evil reaper are.

then in last 10 minutes, writers think they can convince us with a few sentence? especially from
the one who clam to be the reaper boss who has stupid logic.

And flat out lies.

[jijeebo]

Paxcorpus wrote...

 See this is what's great about the endings. You can't just easily choose one, you have to mull them over, and over, and over and over.

You just used the words "great" and "endings" in the same sentence whilst speaking about ME3... I hope you're wearing protective gear.


... That or my sarcasm detector needs new batteries.

Modifié par jijeebo, 08 mai 2012 - 12:30 .

[MisterJB]

The Angry One wrote...
They are the bad guys. They are genocidal maniacs who cause untold amounts of terror and suffering to their victims all for a broken and racist agenda.

They did the best they could out of a terrible situation. If not for the Reapers, Earth would have never developed sentient life due to Synthetics salting it.
I would prefer humanity keep an organic form rather than becoming a Reaper but I'm not about to blame them for preserving organic life in the galaxy.

The "simplistic way" is to defeat them. This has been the goal, this has been the opinion shown by every character aligned with Shepard in the entire trilogy.

Defeat the Reapers. Not compromise. Not submit.

And hey, guess what? The Reapers are defeated in all endings.
Since the Cycle has been broken, the Old Machines no longer need to Reap ergo the Reapers have been defeated.
Defeat does not need to equal destruction. 

Max EMS pretty much suggests they did.

Those numbers are broken.
Kahlee Sanders is worth 20 points while Asari Commandos are worth 60. On what do they base themselves to attribute these numbers?

 

Again they're mostly dead either way.

As someone else pointed out, just 1% of Earth's population is still superior to our colonies.

I'm just pointing out that this is what happens in all of the endings.

It really isn't but we have been over this.

[Shallyah]

YNation913 wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

YNation913 wrote...

Well here's another question, what if the Reapers were shown getting thrown into the sun in control? Hopefully, the EC's "context" will be the addition of scenes that depict the geth not dying in destroy or the Reapers dying in control...

I keep seeing this nosense around. The Reapers aren't puppets, and incase you've missed it the three million times it was said during the three games, the most primal and core purpose of any synthetic lifeform is self-preservation. They may even give up on free will or really anything else to survive. Even wipe out their creators before accepting to be destroyed (Yep, you know the Quarians, don't you?). Plus each Reaper is independant, each a nation, if you believe Sovereign (whom I respect ten zillion times more than the last minute godchild).

You're not gonna Control the Reapers and make them fly into a sun, stop dreaming. Even if you managed to convince one to do so, the massive Mass Effect cores they have would explode in such a way that would most likely cause the star to Supernova, wiping the entire system. So much for "not killing anyone".

Oh jeez, I forgot there were experts here.

 

Doesn't take to be an expert to notice that the Geth nearly made the Quarians extinct when the Quarians tried to shut them down, even being their own creations and subject to the command of the creators. What makes you think you can make the Reapers fly into a Sun? I know you, like other people who pick Control, want to justify the Control choice as the moral highground choice, but that argument goes nowhere.

When you pick Control, you choose that the Reapers will keep existing with all the consequences.

Modifié par Shallyah, 08 mai 2012 - 12:32 .

[Reorte]

Paxcorpus wrote...

 See this is what's great about the endings. You can't just easily choose one, you have to mull them over, and over, and over and over.

For all the wrong reasons. What to do with the Maelon's data, whether to rewrite or destroy the heretics, whether to keep or destroy the Collector base - those were all decisions that I had to mull over and I was impressed at them being there. Not the stupid last-minute out-of-nowhere utterly arbitrary ones we got at the end of ME3.

[MisterJB]

unoriginalname1133 wrote...
Is there actually any debate that the Reapers are the bad guys? I can't imagine anyone arguing that genocide isn't a bad thing, and the Reapers have committed genocide countless times. It doesn't matter why they did it; some things are just downright evil, genocide among them

The Reapers don't commit genocide if they can avoid it. They "elevate" organic species to immortality as Reapers.
As such, I can argue that, while not ideal, preserving organic life in Reaper form and opening way for new life is better than Synthetics simply destroying all organic life without even offering a second life.

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 mai 2012 - 12:35 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Still the best ending.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 08 mai 2012 - 12:34 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

MisterJB wrote...

unoriginalname1133 wrote...
Is there actually any debate that the Reapers are the bad guys? I can't imagine anyone arguing that genocide isn't a bad thing, and the Reapers have committed genocide countless times. It doesn't matter why they did it; some things are just downright evil, genocide among them

The Reapers don't commit genocide if they can avoid it. They "elevate" organic species to immortality as Reapers.
As such, I can argue that, while not ideal, preserving organic life in Reaper form and open way for new life is better than Synthetics simply destroying all organic life without even offering a second life.

Yeah like they "elevated" the Protheons..but wait they didn't, How strange..could it be that they only "elevate" a few and wipe out the rest..yes i think it's so.

[Shallyah]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...



Still the best ending.

The best fanfic ending I've seen yet, and it only took a picture instead of seven pages of worthless dialog.

[Reorte]

MisterJB wrote...

The Reapers don't commit genocide if they can avoid it. They "elevate" organic species to immortality as Reapers.
As such, I can argue that, while not ideal, preserving organic life in Reaper form and opening way for new life is better than Synthetics simply destroying all organic life without even offering a second life.

Right... What exactly is left of the species when it's mushed and turned into a Reaper? About as much as when an individual is turned into a husk. Remember what Shepard said to the Reaper on Rannoch?

[MisterJB]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...
Yeah like they "elevated" the Protheons..but wait they didn't, How strange..could it be that they only "elevate" a few and wipe out the rest..yes i think it's so.

EDI also theorizes that they tried to preserve the protheans but failed.
Sucks to be them.

[Shallyah]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...


Yeah like they "elevated" the Protheons..but wait they didn't, How strange..could it be that they only "elevate" a few and wipe out the rest..yes i think it's so.

They elevated the Potheans, Turians, Krogan, Asari and Batarians to... mindless murdering peons to be mercilessly killed and discarded once they're not useful anymore.

These races must have felt so uplifted. The Reapers truly are salvation. I am pretty sure I saw sequences of Turians in Palaven running towards the Reapers "turn me into a Marauder Shields, please!" next to the asari that yelled "Pick me! Pick me! I wanna be a banshee!".

Modifié par Shallyah, 08 mai 2012 - 12:42 .

[Sarevok Synder]

MisterJB wrote...


The Reapers don't commit genocide if they can avoid it. They "elevate" organic species to immortality as Reapers.
As such, I can argue that, while not ideal, preserving organic life in Reaper form and open way for new life is better than Synthetics simply destroying all organic life without even offering a second life.

Wiping out an entire species, melting them down and turning them into a Reaper, is genocide. It doesn't matter how you cut it.

The Reapers "plan" is doomed to failure anyway, as they have ignored the hundreds of billions of other Galaxies in the universe where Synthetics can rise up. By the time said machines reach the Milkyway they will likely be more advanced than the Reapers, handing them their ass, and if the Reapers logic is correct, purging the galaxy of organic life thereafter. The Reapers logic is deeply flawed.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 08 mai 2012 - 12:45 .

[MisterJB]

Reorte wrote...
Right... What exactly is left of the species when it's mushed and turned into a Reaper? About as much as when an individual is turned into a husk.

Am I to assume that you have spent some time as a Reaper?
Unlike Husks, Reapers are sapient and they seem to really like their condition since they keep calling it "the pinacle of existence."

Remember what Shepard said to the Reaper on Rannoch?

Shepard has never been a Reaper so his opinion on the subject has little merit.

[cyrslash1974]

As I wrote before, StarChild explained to Shep that war between organics and synthetics is inevitable, that synthetics always face their creator, and the cycle (harvest organic species evolved) was his solution to avoid chaos.

Realizing that his solution does not work any more, he proposed to Shepard to find a new solution:

a) Either the control (blue): Shepard becomes a reaper and could control them = peace preserved, Shepard "dies";
Or the Destruction (red): the reapers are destroyed as well as all synthetic = Gueths and IDA seem to be destroyed, Shepard could survive;
c) Or the Synthesis (green): creation of a DNA half-organic, semi-synthetic = peace preserved, Shepard dies (the worst solution in my opinion, because every race is losing its own identity).

But as MY Shepard proved that peace is possible between organics and synthetics (remember Rannoch), so the war can be avoided, he should be able to challenge the point of view and the existing solutions proposed by StarChild, which are now "stone age" solutions, and could ask a new one (and new color) : the destruction of the reapers, and only the reapers (paragon).

Sorry for my english.

[KingZayd]

Reorte wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

The Reapers don't commit genocide if they can avoid it. They "elevate" organic species to immortality as Reapers.
As such, I can argue that, while not ideal, preserving organic life in Reaper form and opening way for new life is better than Synthetics simply destroying all organic life without even offering a second life.

Right... What exactly is left of the species when it's mushed and turned into a Reaper? About as much as when an individual is turned into a husk. Remember what Shepard said to the Reaper on Rannoch?

Not to mention turned into the Starchild's slave.

[Rip504]

The Angry One wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Then the only conclusion we can reach is that destroying the Reapers is not you main concern. Your main concern is preserving the galaxy, even if that means that the Reapers survive. Otherwise, you would just destroy the Reapers, or turn everyone into robot abominations.

My main concern is destroying the Reapers *and* preserving the galaxy.
That was the entire point of all 3 games.

+1

[unoriginalname1133]

MisterJB wrote...

unoriginalname1133 wrote...
Is there actually any debate that the Reapers are the bad guys? I can't imagine anyone arguing that genocide isn't a bad thing, and the Reapers have committed genocide countless times. It doesn't matter why they did it; some things are just downright evil, genocide among them

The Reapers don't commit genocide if they can avoid it. They "elevate" organic species to immortality as Reapers.
As such, I can argue that, while not ideal, preserving organic life in Reaper form and opening way for new life is better than Synthetics simply destroying all organic life without even offering a second life.

I think that you are working from the same false assumption that the Catalyst did; namely that synthetics will always kill organics. Your potential interactions with EDI and the Geth refute this. There is also an assumption that becoming an abomination is better than being murdered along with the rest of your race (genocide was still present either way). Without these basic assumtions, the Reapers' many genocides become even more sinister, as they are rendered pointless on top of everything else. Incidently, I would have loved the chance to make this argument to the Catalyst in the game as well.