181 réponses à ce sujet

[ReXspec]

@Shaoken

"...And exactly where did you learn that detail? Were you there in the meeting rooms? Or are you basing it off a post that the man it's attributed to has said up and done many times it wasn't by him."

Stop with the sarcasm. It doesn't add anything to your point.

No Duke Nukem fan I talked to was looking forward to the game because they knew that no game, even a game created by jesus, was worth ten years of waiting. The developers didn't have the foresight to expect that fans would have set their expectations uber-high, so the game fell flat.

As for the quality of ME1, I went to E3 in 2006 (no point in proving credentials, since I'm probably little more then an alias to you) and there was pre-development concept for the game that got tremendous feedback from the convention goers. So, yes. Even then, fans had say in the earliest development of the game.

[ReXspec]

chemiclord wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

To say fans are in Technical Support forums, or game conventions with Developers and staff with the game is not sounding "entitled" nor is it "delusional."

Bioware f*cked up and we're pointing it out.  Bioware is therefore obligated to fix it, or lose customer loyalty and therefore profit.

Bioware is "obligated" to do jack ****.  They can do whatever the flying **** they want.  If they want to change the endings, they can.  If they don't, they don't, and you have less than zero say in those decisions.

You can either choose to accept it, or take your business elsewhere.  THAT is your impact.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Then they lose profit.  That is the last thing they want.  Especially if they have embittered customers saying that the game sucks.

Apparently not, because they aren't changing the ending.  So either they don't think your opinion is truly the majority (it might be, it might not be, I dunno), or they think their fans are lowly peasants that will crawl back begging for more scraps no matter what.

Either way... you don't get what you want.  So... now what?

There is a damn reason game developers have technical support and feedback apparatus'.  You can't say that consumers have no sway over a games creation or continual development.  To do so is either an expression of tremendous emitterment toward the gaming industry in general, or ignorance as to what actually happens to games in the industry.

Really?  Can't say I've seen too many game companies ask fans, "How would you write this story differently?"  I've seen a lot of fans PROVIDE that answer UNSOLICITED, and promptly ignored.  If you're equating bug reporting to story development... then I don't know what to say to you other than you can't be more wrong.

Stop reducing this down to symantics and sarcasm.  There is a difference between a feedback apparatus and technical support.  You know exactly what I meant.  As for getting what "I want" that has yet to be seen.  The EC is still in development.  Nothing is set in stone, and I honestly think trusting condesending PR statements and little twitter blurbs is hardly a reason to get my hopes up, or destroy any hope that Bioware is going to come to their senses.  I'm watching and waiting.

Modifié par ReXspec, 08 mai 2012 - 03:12 .

[Shaoken]

ReXspec wrote...

@Shaoken

"...And exactly where did you learn that detail? Were you there in the meeting rooms? Or are you basing it off a post that the man it's attributed to has said up and done many times it wasn't by him."

Stop with the sarcasm. It doesn't add anything to your point.

It adds the fact that you are taking something as gospel even though the man you attribute it to denies it.

No Duke Nukem fan I talked to was looking forward to the game because they knew that no game, even a game created by jesus, was worth ten years of waiting. The developers didn't have the foresight to expect that fans would have set their expectations uber-high, so the game fell flat.

Your also deliberaltey missing the point here, DNF is an example of a project with "virtually unlimited' resources and it failed specifically because of that reaso.

As for the quality of ME1, I went to E3 in 2006 (no point in proving credentials, since I'm probably little more then an alias to you) and there was pre-development concept for the game that got tremendous feedback from the convention goers. So, yes. Even then, fans had say in the earliest development of the game.

Did that feedback include story?

[olipyr]

I'm going to to just toss this out there....

Star Wars Galaxies and the NGE.

Modifié par olipyr, 08 mai 2012 - 03:20 .

[ReXspec]

Shaoken wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

@Shaoken

"...And exactly where did you learn that detail? Were you there in the meeting rooms? Or are you basing it off a post that the man it's attributed to has said up and done many times it wasn't by him."

Stop with the sarcasm. It doesn't add anything to your point.

It adds the fact that you are taking something as gospel even though the man you attribute it to denies it.

No Duke Nukem fan I talked to was looking forward to the game because they knew that no game, even a game created by jesus, was worth ten years of waiting. The developers didn't have the foresight to expect that fans would have set their expectations uber-high, so the game fell flat.

Your also deliberaltey missing the point here, DNF is an example of a project with "virtually unlimited' resources and it failed specifically because of that reaso.

As for the quality of ME1, I went to E3 in 2006 (no point in proving credentials, since I'm probably little more then an alias to you) and there was pre-development concept for the game that got tremendous feedback from the convention goers. So, yes. Even then, fans had say in the earliest development of the game.

Did that feedback include story?

Yes it did.

And my point wasn't the resources.  I was contributing failure to the fans.  They had already moved on or set their expectations sky-high.

And no, the sarcasm doesn't add to your point because it discredits your argument with a condescending, loaded question; no, of course I wasn't in the board room when that discussion took place, but trusting ******-poor PR statements when nothing on the EC is set in stone would be ignorance and borderline stupidity.

Modifié par ReXspec, 08 mai 2012 - 03:27 .

[vixvicco]

It would make them look even worse, especially because EA is not getting a really bad rep. And maybe they think they will look weak if they "yield" to fans.

[Father Alvito]

nhcre8tv1 wrote...

It sets a bad precident for other things if this were to happen again.

Bingo.  More precisely, it sets a bad precedent for future Bioware products.  They could care less about the rest of the industry, but the last thing they want to do is give people a leg to stand on when demanding costly content after the release of future titles.

[shurikenmanta]

Because it's not worth it.

The fanbase is unpleasable - they will find faults in the new endings over and over again until either each person has their own special unique ending or EA says screw it and pulls the plug. There is a very good reason why one of the rules most authors go by is 'we don't take orders from readers'.

And it's not like everybody who's ragequit Bioware won't be back for DAIII, then ragequit that and come back for ME4/BG3.

Modifié par shurikenmanta, 08 mai 2012 - 03:34 .

[Lookout1390]

Bioware is too proud to admit they ****ed up.

Which is funny, because they are losing money left and right, and need to find a way to plug the hole.

But no, let's keep ****ting on the fanbase.

[Shaoken]

Lookout1390 wrote...

Bioware is too proud to admit they ****ed up.

Which is funny, because they are losing money left and right, and need to find a way to plug the hole.

But no, let's keep ****ting on the fanbase.

You say they're losing money, yet ME3 is still selling and the reinforcement packs for multiplayer are still selling.

[ReXspec]

Shaoken wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Bioware is too proud to admit they ****ed up.

Which is funny, because they are losing money left and right, and need to find a way to plug the hole.

But no, let's keep ****ting on the fanbase.

You say they're losing money, yet ME3 is still selling and the reinforcement packs for multiplayer are still selling.

Hmmm...on a both serious and humorous note, I'd call that a paltry victory or "consolation prize" on Bioware's part.  lol

IMO, I don't think that would be a significant source of profit.  I mean, would that honestly keep Bioware growing and "in the black? (so to speak...)"

[Father Alvito]

Shaoken wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Bioware is too proud to admit they ****ed up.

Which is funny, because they are losing money left and right, and need to find a way to plug the hole.

But no, let's keep ****ting on the fanbase.

You say they're losing money, yet ME3 is still selling and the reinforcement packs for multiplayer are still selling.

A quick glance at EA's financials suggests that they aren't separated out by operating unit.  That means that the only way to know how much Bioware is or isn't making would be to have access to confidential, internal reports.

It should be obvious that Bioware has made a killing in the last six months; what isn't obvious is whether or not the revenue generated was greater than the development costs incurred.  But I'd bet that ME3 was quite profitable.

[Shaoken]

ReXspec wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Bioware is too proud to admit they ****ed up.

Which is funny, because they are losing money left and right, and need to find a way to plug the hole.

But no, let's keep ****ting on the fanbase.

You say they're losing money, yet ME3 is still selling and the reinforcement packs for multiplayer are still selling.

Hmmm...on a both serious and humorous note, I'd call that a paltry victory or "consolation prize" on Bioware's part.  lol

IMO, I don't think that would be a significant source of profit.  I mean, would that honestly keep Bioware growing and "in the black? (so to speak...)"

I'm challenging the notion that Bioware is losing money, when there is no evidence to suggest that and there is evidence that they are making money. I mean ME3 has been out for what? We're coming up on two months now? ME3's current price for new copies is lower than normal, but thy made a lot of money in that first week or two.

[Blue Liara]

BS artistic integrity thats why. 
By the way anyone else see the news of SWTOR membership drop. Anyone think it might have something to do with ME3 ending, or EA being voted worst company in america. 

uk.pc.ign.com/articles/122/1224460p1.html

[ReXspec]

Shaoken wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Bioware is too proud to admit they ****ed up.

Which is funny, because they are losing money left and right, and need to find a way to plug the hole.

But no, let's keep ****ting on the fanbase.

You say they're losing money, yet ME3 is still selling and the reinforcement packs for multiplayer are still selling.

Hmmm...on a both serious and humorous note, I'd call that a paltry victory or "consolation prize" on Bioware's part.  lol

IMO, I don't think that would be a significant source of profit.  I mean, would that honestly keep Bioware growing and "in the black? (so to speak...)"

I'm challenging the notion that Bioware is losing money, when there is no evidence to suggest that and there is evidence that they are making money. I mean ME3 has been out for what? We're coming up on two months now? ME3's current price for new copies is lower than normal, but thy made a lot of money in that first week or two.

Well par for the course at the moment, the only evidence we have now is Bioware's reaction to the fan outcry over the endings and the fact that they are essentially in a proverbial "siege mode".   I'd definitely call that a measure of damage control.  Whether that is due to a loss of profit, or whether they actually care about the fans, that is up for debate.  We'll never know until we actually see the EC.

[Shaoken]

Blue Liara wrote...

BS artistic integrity thats why. 
By the way anyone else see the news of SWTOR membership drop. Anyone think it might have something to do with ME3 ending, or EA being voted worst company in america. 

uk.pc.ign.com/articles/122/1224460p1.html

Hard to say. .4 Million is a lot of people, who knows why the majority of them left? Some of them might have gotten bored with the game, some of them might not have time to play the game anymore, etc. etc.

Sure, some of them have most certainly left due to ME3's ending, ditto for EA being voted worst company (although I'd peg that as significantly less than those who left due to ME3's ending), but without some sort of survey of that .4 million all we have is speculation.

[Father Alvito]

Blue Liara wrote...
. 
By the way anyone else see the news of SWTOR membership drop. Anyone think it might have something to do with ME3 ending, or EA being voted worst company in america. 

uk.pc.ign.com/articles/122/1224460p1.html

I doubt it has anything to do with either.  It's probably a reflection of the state of gameplay and (lack of) endgame content in SW:tOR.

That said, IIRC the folks at EA said they only needed a million subscribers to be profitable, so the suits probably feel that the game is a smashing success even after declining from 1.7 million to 1.3 million subscribers.

Modifié par Father Alvito, 08 mai 2012 - 04:13 .

[Lookout1390]

Shaoken wrote...

Lookout1390 wrote...

Bioware is too proud to admit they ****ed up.

Which is funny, because they are losing money left and right, and need to find a way to plug the hole.

But no, let's keep ****ting on the fanbase.

You say they're losing money, yet ME3 is still selling and the reinforcement packs for multiplayer are still selling.

If you think that counts as success, then you have no idea how deep in it EA is.

Other than the bioware names, it's pretty much fifa and madden that are the only cash-crops left for EA.

TOR flopped hard, DA is dead, ME has been shot in the back of the head.

EA is in some serious trouble right now, why do you think they are already looking to expand again? They need more cash crops.

ME3 is already being sold for less than it's full sticker price in some stores already, and it's only been out 2 months, that's pretty bad....

[Shaoken]

[quote]Lookout1390 wrote...

[quote]Shaoken wrote...

[quote]Lookout1390 wrote...

Bioware is too proud to admit they ****ed up.

Which is funny, because they are losing money left and right, and need to find a way to plug the hole.

But no, let's keep ****ting on the fanbase.[/quote]

You say they're losing money, yet ME3 is still selling and the reinforcement packs for multiplayer are still selling.[/quote]

If you think that counts as success, then you have no idea how deep in it EA is.

Other than the bioware names, it's pretty much fifa and madden that are the only cash-crops left for EA.[/quote]

And Dead Space, and Command and Conquer, and the Sims, and all those other brands they own

TOR flopped hard, DA is dead, ME has been shot in the back of the head.[/quote]

TOR is profitable as per EA saying they only need 1 million users to be profitable, they still have .3. DA3 is still being made, hardly dead. The amount of people posting in this subsection shows that ME3 is not dead.

[quote]EA is in some serious trouble right now, why do you think they are already looking to expand again? They need more cash crops.
[/quote]

You say that as if EA has ever stopped expanding and buying up other companies.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Devil Mingy wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Archereon wrote...

It's because Casey Hudson wants the series to end with Mass Effect 3. Whatever they do, it'll change things in a way that still makes a followup to ME3 impossible.

if they wanted it to end with mass effect 3 then why kill off shepard only for you to see a cliffhanger of an ending of him/her breathingfor a second (if you do well enough) just for the game to end with stargazer telling the kid that theres one more story? and on top of that add no closure to show what happens after the battle anyway?

To paraphrase a quote from Bioware's PAX conference, they didn't know we wanted closure.

When I heard this remark I was thinking "you've got to be ****ing kidding. Are these people this feebleminded?"

[Lookout1390]

[quote]Shaoken wrote...

[quote]Lookout1390 wrote...

[quote]Shaoken wrote...

[quote]Lookout1390 wrote...

Bioware is too proud to admit they ****ed up.

Which is funny, because they are losing money left and right, and need to find a way to plug the hole.

But no, let's keep ****ting on the fanbase.[/quote]

You say they're losing money, yet ME3 is still selling and the reinforcement packs for multiplayer are still selling.[/quote]

If you think that counts as success, then you have no idea how deep in it EA is.

Other than the bioware names, it's pretty much fifa and madden that are the only cash-crops left for EA.[/quote]

And Dead Space, and Command and Conquer, and the Sims, and all those other brands they own

TOR flopped hard, DA is dead, ME has been shot in the back of the head.[/quote]

TOR is profitable as per EA saying they only need 1 million users to be profitable, they still have .3. DA3 is still being made, hardly dead. The amount of people posting in this subsection shows that ME3 is not dead.

[quote]EA is in some serious trouble right now, why do you think they are already looking to expand again? They need more cash crops.
[/quote]

You say that as if EA has ever stopped expanding and buying up other companies.[/quote]

Lol...bioware doing a command and conquer game...haha, yeah we'll see how good that is. Dead Space has been milked pretty hard, I don't see that much further...hence why I didn't even mention those at all.

EA hasn't cut it's ties so quickly after purchasing and gobbling up a new developer. 

Lol, and don't even try to tell yourself that TOR will survive and hold steady at 1mil, cause it's not happening. It's been a slow steady decline ever since, and it shows no signs of stopping anytime soon.

Who the **** cares about DA3 after seeing the abomination that is DA2?

[Candoo]

Father Alvito wrote...

nhcre8tv1 wrote...

It sets a bad precident for other things if this were to happen again.

Bingo.  More precisely, it sets a bad precedent for future Bioware products.  They could care less about the rest of the industry, but the last thing they want to do is give people a leg to stand on when demanding costly content after the release of future titles.

That's all fine and dandy, but after DA2 and ME3, they have to hope that there is enough sheep left in the BW flock to purchase future titles. That's two strikes already; would you chance another?

[Swimming Ferret]

Devil Mingy wrote...

carrmatt91 wrote...

Archereon wrote...

It's because Casey Hudson wants the series to end with Mass Effect 3. Whatever they do, it'll change things in a way that still makes a followup to ME3 impossible.

if they wanted it to end with mass effect 3 then why kill off shepard only for you to see a cliffhanger of an ending of him/her breathingfor a second (if you do well enough) just for the game to end with stargazer telling the kid that theres one more story? and on top of that add no closure to show what happens after the battle anyway?

To paraphrase a quote from Bioware's PAX conference, they didn't know we wanted closure.

How the fcuk did those idiots get to that conclusion? Did they honestly think SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE was what we wanted?

[Rip504]

There is nothing wrong with alternate...

[nategator]

Candoo wrote...

Father Alvito wrote...

nhcre8tv1 wrote...

It sets a bad precident for other things if this were to happen again.

Bingo.  More precisely, it sets a bad precedent for future Bioware products.  They could care less about the rest of the industry, but the last thing they want to do is give people a leg to stand on when demanding costly content after the release of future titles.

That's all fine and dandy, but after DA2 and ME3, they have to hope that there is enough sheep left in the BW flock to purchase future titles. That's two strikes already; would you chance another?

If Bioware put out a game with the reviews it received for ME3, I would buy it after the first 50% price drop like I did for ME3

I might be careful if it was put out as the end of a series or other such nonsense since Bioware cannot write endings.  But they seem fine with franchises so as long as the general reviews are there I'll buy.  

You guys seem to think that every studio can put out a KOTOR or Bioshock whenever they want.  Usually, there are 2-3 really awesome games, some good games, and the rest is meh.  If Bioware puts out one of those top 2-3, I'll buy in a heartbeat.