162 réponses à ce sujet

[Repearized Miranda]

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

Buzz Kill. However the endings as they were are just terribly written (full of plot holes and inconsistencies) and were poorly executed, and robbed the player of everything they played for.

If it was Indoctrination then the end of the game all took place in Shepard's head. Basically a dream sequence, and Shepard died not stopping the Reapers (the goal of the entire series). And it was not by player choice or fault, like even though I did everything right and had the highest level of whatever (cause it didn't matter) it was written as, well Reapers got Shepard, they won. Thank you for spending $200 and 200 hours on our games hope you enjoyed the Reapers winning and Shepard dieing, cause that's what happened (if Indoctrination is correct).

Ok you say, but what if I pick the red ending, that means Shepard's alive and when the new dlc hits we can all get the new ending new scenes explaining stuff.  Then ::sigh:: that means that the blue and green endings are wrong, and that you must always pick the red path to access the dlc content or whatever.  Then WHAT WAS THE POINT of kjflagf agjmvklmafkjvoiwemav afjwoifeivnoivniowu .... you know what?  It doesn't matter.  It was, the whole thing was extremely sloppy no matter what angle you approach it from.

That is false though - given what follows as this is also what is upsetting people - because you do "defeat the Reapers and become a Legend!" and who can say no to the child that asks to hear "one more story"?

Also, with the blue and green being wrong. Well, what was your goal from the beginning - not to mention coming face to face with those endings in the previous games (Saren - green; TIM - blue) and telling them to stuff it?

But yes, at face-value something went wrong if you need to explain yourself or taking it at face-value is the actual problem. I would think it's the latter or they wouldn't do this.

Like I said no matter how you look at it, the endings were sloppy (all of Mass Effect 3 was sloppy).

The Indoctrination theory doesn't make things better, it's equally as sloppy.  If (Indoctrination is the true ending) the Devs planned this from the very beginning then shame on them.  Indoctrination Theory and all of the other endings or theroies of the endings undermine the entire Mass Effect series.

I can say no to the little kid.  One more story?  NO!  No more stories.  No Mass Effect 4, No to Mass Effect: The Next Generation.  Mass Effect was planned as a trilogy, a beginning, middle, and end.  Three.  Not 4 or 5 or 6.  3!!!

I can only theroize that EA or Bioware, made the endings the way they are so they could string people along to buy more dlc, or to buy the next Mass Effect #.

The Indoctrination Theory is terrible along with any other theory or explination because the writing is terrible! 

It's not like I want to hate the endings or Mass Effect 3, I'm not going out of my way to hate it or dislike it.  I do because it's sloppy!  But I digress.

Well, then what can they do or what would people propose because you're saying to throw out the whole idea.

Was it done sloppily, perhaps; however, not everybody understands something that well structured either.Here though, it seems like no one wants to - that is why our hands are being held.

What would you have proposed they do since the first game, then? Explain human manipulation. What's the "theory" behind it? Why do people do it? Maybe it comes down to them using the wrong word since we're not that smart. Yet, we claim to be smarter than the writers and not just with video games.

Indoctrination = Manipulation! It's perhaps terrible because it's something smple minded folk don't get. That's a harsh generalization, but that concept is not hard to grasp for even such people. It's the other things surrounding it, but not anything is hard to grasp there either. "Friends trusting enemies!" "Believing that your friend is your foe!" "You're just a puppet!" Things like that! It's not as complicated - which apparently = convuluted, as people think.

People don't want to think and that is a major problem! No matter how well-done the writing is, if you intended for your audience to think, but they complain because they have to, that is not your problem! It's theirs. And with all these videos, etc., folks are thinking about it; the "complaining" overshadows it!

[Aryck the One]

Buzz kill. No doubt.

[harrier25699]

If the IT is in the EC it means the end of the trilogy is still not complete and that the IT is just another speculative non-ending in which the player must use their imagination to determine how events unfold after the fact.

If IT is not in the EC it means the ending truly did suck and that either way some part of ending is borked. Why did I spend so much of the game assembling a massive fleet when all i needed was a one-sided conversation with the ghostly apparition of a child who confuses shephard to the point of forgetting his past resolve and now welcomes suicide, literally, with open arms
?

"I .... don't know..." are almost shephards last words.

Modifié par harrier25699, 10 mai 2012 - 10:22 .

[Ahriman132]

I look to it with an open mind. The only thing that I seem to stand to loose is a few minutes waiting for the download. While I admit, the ending didn't meet my expectations, it wasn't the worst video game ending I've ever had. So, I at least will see what Bioware has to offer, and hope for the best.

[Kabl0wzasan]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

Buzz Kill. However the endings as they were are just terribly written (full of plot holes and inconsistencies) and were poorly executed, and robbed the player of everything they played for.

If it was Indoctrination then the end of the game all took place in Shepard's head. Basically a dream sequence, and Shepard died not stopping the Reapers (the goal of the entire series). And it was not by player choice or fault, like even though I did everything right and had the highest level of whatever (cause it didn't matter) it was written as, well Reapers got Shepard, they won. Thank you for spending $200 and 200 hours on our games hope you enjoyed the Reapers winning and Shepard dieing, cause that's what happened (if Indoctrination is correct).

Ok you say, but what if I pick the red ending, that means Shepard's alive and when the new dlc hits we can all get the new ending new scenes explaining stuff.  Then ::sigh:: that means that the blue and green endings are wrong, and that you must always pick the red path to access the dlc content or whatever.  Then WHAT WAS THE POINT of kjflagf agjmvklmafkjvoiwemav afjwoifeivnoivniowu .... you know what?  It doesn't matter.  It was, the whole thing was extremely sloppy no matter what angle you approach it from.

That is false though - given what follows as this is also what is upsetting people - because you do "defeat the Reapers and become a Legend!" and who can say no to the child that asks to hear "one more story"?

Also, with the blue and green being wrong. Well, what was your goal from the beginning - not to mention coming face to face with those endings in the previous games (Saren - green; TIM - blue) and telling them to stuff it?

But yes, at face-value something went wrong if you need to explain yourself or taking it at face-value is the actual problem. I would think it's the latter or they wouldn't do this.

Like I said no matter how you look at it, the endings were sloppy (all of Mass Effect 3 was sloppy).

The Indoctrination theory doesn't make things better, it's equally as sloppy.  If (Indoctrination is the true ending) the Devs planned this from the very beginning then shame on them.  Indoctrination Theory and all of the other endings or theroies of the endings undermine the entire Mass Effect series.

I can say no to the little kid.  One more story?  NO!  No more stories.  No Mass Effect 4, No to Mass Effect: The Next Generation.  Mass Effect was planned as a trilogy, a beginning, middle, and end.  Three.  Not 4 or 5 or 6.  3!!!

I can only theroize that EA or Bioware, made the endings the way they are so they could string people along to buy more dlc, or to buy the next Mass Effect #.

The Indoctrination Theory is terrible along with any other theory or explination because the writing is terrible! 

It's not like I want to hate the endings or Mass Effect 3, I'm not going out of my way to hate it or dislike it.  I do because it's sloppy!  But I digress.

Well, then what can they do or what would people propose because you're saying to throw out the whole idea.

Was it done sloppily, perhaps; however, not everybody understands something that well structured either.Here though, it seems like no one wants to - that is why our hands are being held.

What would you have proposed they do since the first game, then? Explain human manipulation. What's the "theory" behind it? Why do people do it? Maybe it comes down to them using the wrong word since we're not that smart. Yet, we claim to be smarter than the writers and not just with video games.

Indoctrination = Manipulation! It's perhaps terrible because it's something smple minded folk don't get. That's a harsh generalization, but that concept is not hard to grasp for even such people. It's the other things surrounding it, but not anything is hard to grasp there either. "Friends trusting enemies!" "Believing that your friend is your foe!" "You're just a puppet!" Things like that! It's not as complicated - which apparently = convuluted, as people think.

People don't want to think and that is a major problem! No matter how well-done the writing is, if you intended for your audience to think, but they complain because they have to, that is not your problem! It's theirs. And with all these videos, etc., folks are thinking about it; the "complaining" overshadows it!

Do you work for Bioware?  You do, don't you?  It's cool 

Maybe Bioware can't do anything to fix the ending.  That they made mistakes that ruined Mass Effect 3 and the entire series.  And I say this because there were a lot of other mistakes in Mass Effect 3, which in order to fix the ending, they would have to fix the other mistakes.  I'm not going to go into it because it's just another long rant(but I would start with the Mass Effect 2 DLC, that's where they should've introduced the Catalyst or the Ultimate Independence Day Computer Virus weapon or whatever.), I mean I would rant for several pages.  I'd probably have to post a youtube video getting into what went wrong.  But many things.

I get it.  I get the Indoctrination Theory, I grasp and understand it.  Is it acceptable?  Is it  genius?  No.  Not as an ending.  Now I say that because if the whole Indoctrination happened in the middle of the game (Meaning, meeting the kid and having him give you the 3 options, and blah blah blah), then that would've been genius.  That's the key though in the middle not the end.

Before you say well... Maybe we are at the middle, no... nope.  When I paid $80.   When people buy a game  they expe  That was the end of the game.  We all got to it, that was it.  There were Credits.  Credits don't roll after the middle of something, they roll at the end.

But ok if my arm is to be twisted in the matter then that's how Bioware could fix it, have the whole Indoctrination be the middle of the game and then bam 15 more hours of gameplay, a true set of endings, and have it all be for free then sure, that's how you do it.

Modifié par Kabl0wzasan, 11 mai 2012 - 01:37 .

[bennyjammin79]

Touchdown.

[Alien1099]

It would be STUPID. Indoctrination is a way to explain the crappy ending. Not a way to end the game.

[Kabl0wzasan]

Alien1099 wrote...

It would be STUPID. Indoctrination is a way to explain the crappy ending. Not a way to end the game.

^ THIS

Exactly

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I don't think IT would make anymore sense than the current endings and I'm not big fan of a those kind of endings.

[Darth Sicarius]

It would be brilliant. Everything I've seen and read concerning this theory is both compelling and plausible. It would also be an ending of a sort that would need to be expanded upon as everything that happened indoctrination-wise was so subtle most players didn't see it for what it was (if indeed this turns out to be the case). It would also restore some measure of faith in BioWare for coming up with so intricate an ending.

However, after all that has happened, I'm expecting things to remain pointless and poorly written. Knowing EA is involved, I fully expect the expanded edition have Isaac Clarke rescue Shepard from the rubble with the Battlefield 3 soldier and Tiger Woods helping as well.

[xbeton0L]

As much as I'd like to give Bioware and fans alike deserving applause for creating this well-thought and marvelous concept, it would still be an epic failure for the livelihood of the Mass Effect franchise - being that the Reapers successfully 'defeated' the hero, the "battle" was entirely inside Shepard's mind, and in effect everything was lost regardless of what ending you get. This is not a satisfactory ending in any manner of storytelling!

This is of course siding with the Indoctrination Theory, if what it claims is upheld by Bioware. But it already gives too much credit to an incomplete/poorly constructed story.

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

Alien1099 wrote...

It would be STUPID. Indoctrination is a way to explain the crappy ending. Not a way to end the game. 

^ THIS

Exactly

Pretty much.

You know, it's almost like watching a story that 'happened'. Like reading a story from the Bible. 

They should've called ME3, "Let's play David & Goliath" because no matter what you do - the ending doesn't change. I mean, sure the rock was blue, or green, or pink... but there was blood and everything ended up red anyway.

Reading further, I completely agree that this installment of Mass Effect 3 was sloppy. Many, many things I couldn't bring myself to terms with. It got to the point I disagreed with so many things, I didn't fault the game - it was brilliantly executed and polished - however it was the writing that slowly eroded whatever tolerence for incompetence I had left. Hated watching my former squadmates die "in Sacrifice", hated the "old Western standoffs", and now I have no other logical choice but to accept that my main character was nothing more than a confused pawn in a scheme much larger than any advanced civilization in the galaxy.

Modifié par xbeton0L, 11 mai 2012 - 03:02 .

[Deputy Secretary of Awesome]

Touchdown

[JBONE27]

OdanUrr wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

1. You destroyed the CB as a paragon choice because the collectors liquified people to create more Reapers.  The Reapers have liquified countless people to create more Reapers and destroyed entire civilisations.  I'd say other than the potential sentiance, it's the same call.

2.  If you say that reprograming the Hertics is a form of slavery, then you're saying that education, upbringing, and corrective medication (anti-depressents, anti-psychotics, etc) are all forms of slavery.  I would like to see you make that argument.

3.  That is if you take the Star Child at his word, but he implies that Shepard dies with destruction.  (S)He does not.  It states that EDI dies with destruction.  She does not (I played through once, chose destruction; Joker exits, then Liara, and finally EDI).  Therefore we can assume that the only things that were actually destroyed were the Reapers, which you were trying to destroy since the first game and the mass relays, which get destroyed no matter which choice you make.  Therefore, your argument that the Geth, Reapers, EDI, Mass Relays, and Shepard are destroyed is invalid because it is untrue.

1. Not really. You could always tell them to hit the nearest sun later on, but I understand where you're coming from.

2. This guy explains it better: 

3. The Catalyst implies Shepard might die because of his synthetic implants, but he doesn't know for sure. If he did, he would have told Shepard so. Just because Shepard survives at the end doesn't mean the Geth will too. Any assumption based on this is merely that, an assumption. EDI surviving would certainly be suggestive but we know this particular scene is not quite foolproof. If EDI does indeed survive, one could make the case that maybe the Geth survive too, but only a scene depicting this can be considered proof.

1.  How is it any different?

2.  That doesn't actually explain anything.

3.  I already mentioned that it was the ending I got.  I cannot upload it since I use a 360, but it is still the ending I got.

1. The difference I see is that with Control you sacrifice only yourself and with Destroy there's the chance that the Geth will be destroyed too and that (some) technology will be adversely affected.

2. It did for me. Maybe you just don't agree with his explanation.

3. You misunderstand. I meant that we can only be certain the Geth survive if we actually see them survive. Anything else is speculation.

1.  The geth can easily be rebuilt and made without the memory of the "Geth Uprising," thereby making peace with the quarians more easily obtained.  I do agree that it would work adversely to the current technology, but that in and of itself can be a good thing.  The entirety of sentiant species have gone through their technilogical evolution based off of technology created by beings intent on their destruction.  With that technology gone, the extant sentiant races can build new technology free from design, evolving in new and exciting ways.  Who knows what the galaxy might develop.

2.  It didn't because he ignored the majority of the argument.  He basically just said, "It's enslaving the geth."  When what it really is, is putting the get on figurative zoloft so that they don't try to kill everyone.

3.  Okay, I'll grant you that, but again, see point 1.  Synthetic life is just that, "Synthetic," in other words, it can be recreated, and reprogramed.

Modifié par JBONE27, 11 mai 2012 - 04:55 .

[Repearized Miranda]

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

Buzz Kill. However the endings as they were are just terribly written (full of plot holes and inconsistencies) and were poorly executed, and robbed the player of everything they played for.

If it was Indoctrination then the end of the game all took place in Shepard's head. Basically a dream sequence, and Shepard died not stopping the Reapers (the goal of the entire series). And it was not by player choice or fault, like even though I did everything right and had the highest level of whatever (cause it didn't matter) it was written as, well Reapers got Shepard, they won. Thank you for spending $200 and 200 hours on our games hope you enjoyed the Reapers winning and Shepard dieing, cause that's what happened (if Indoctrination is correct).

Ok you say, but what if I pick the red ending, that means Shepard's alive and when the new dlc hits we can all get the new ending new scenes explaining stuff.  Then ::sigh:: that means that the blue and green endings are wrong, and that you must always pick the red path to access the dlc content or whatever.  Then WHAT WAS THE POINT of kjflagf agjmvklmafkjvoiwemav afjwoifeivnoivniowu .... you know what?  It doesn't matter.  It was, the whole thing was extremely sloppy no matter what angle you approach it from.

That is false though - given what follows as this is also what is upsetting people - because you do "defeat the Reapers and become a Legend!" and who can say no to the child that asks to hear "one more story"?

Also, with the blue and green being wrong. Well, what was your goal from the beginning - not to mention coming face to face with those endings in the previous games (Saren - green; TIM - blue) and telling them to stuff it?

But yes, at face-value something went wrong if you need to explain yourself or taking it at face-value is the actual problem. I would think it's the latter or they wouldn't do this.

Like I said no matter how you look at it, the endings were sloppy (all of Mass Effect 3 was sloppy).

The Indoctrination theory doesn't make things better, it's equally as sloppy.  If (Indoctrination is the true ending) the Devs planned this from the very beginning then shame on them.  Indoctrination Theory and all of the other endings or theroies of the endings undermine the entire Mass Effect series.

I can say no to the little kid.  One more story?  NO!  No more stories.  No Mass Effect 4, No to Mass Effect: The Next Generation.  Mass Effect was planned as a trilogy, a beginning, middle, and end.  Three.  Not 4 or 5 or 6.  3!!!

I can only theroize that EA or Bioware, made the endings the way they are so they could string people along to buy more dlc, or to buy the next Mass Effect #.

The Indoctrination Theory is terrible along with any other theory or explination because the writing is terrible! 

It's not like I want to hate the endings or Mass Effect 3, I'm not going out of my way to hate it or dislike it.  I do because it's sloppy!  But I digress.

Now, wait a minute! How do you automatically assume that Shepard did NOT stop the Reapers since the emding game-screen flat-out tells you - unless it's a blatant lie and since they been accused of that regarding other issues (not just the ending)

It doesn't nullify the entire game or series, you just think it does. If not, they wouldn't "clarify" this, would this? All of us saw what happened. You got hit and were merely knocked out - which makes me wonder, why you got up after being hit in the beginning and you did so quicker than at the end.

That was a joke! Specifically, aiming at those who are upset given that you can't say no to the Catalyst (we can and know how)

That's because you're looking at the surface only! If you look at a child's drawing/painting, clearly it is not a Picasso or Rembrandt! You wouldn't say to the child that it looks like ****, would you? How heartless are you?

I understand taking time and not rushing things; however, that's why the ending appears to be thrown together. Dreams are crazy as hell and still are; however, some do wake and try to make sense of what went on. What does this mean? What is this dream telling me? Because often times, they do mean something!

Like the many dreams I've had about ME3!

This could mean:

I've played way too much. I've been around the environemt too much (Forums, etc.) Maybe I'm working through what I can do differently if I'm stuck somewhere in the game!  Why am I seeing a reoccuring character frequently? (Feelings, perhaps?) Etc, etc.

Most would probably gravitate towards #1 (too much gaming) and well, since I have played way too much and can prove it - it may not be the case, but there's too much resistance to argue against it! Especially, if I realize I did log 400 hours worth!

Yeah, sure my reasoning could be total garbage; however, if another person did what I did - despite the dreams being different - I don't see how his or her reasoning would differ from mine!

That is the problem - everybody upset is looking at the surface - and only - the surface! Why else would BW do the digging for those people (the anti-Indoc people). It's as if no one wants a reason at all because it'll come off stupid to somebody!! Yet, here people are tearing into them to get one!

[elecmanexe001]

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

  Indoctrination Theory and all of the other endings or theroies of the endings undermine the entire Mass Effect series.

How? How does something established within the game its self undermine the game? This makes literally no sense.

[Repearized Miranda]

elecmanexe001 wrote...

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

  Indoctrination Theory and all of the other endings or theroies of the endings undermine the entire Mass Effect series.

How? How does something established within the game its self undermine the game? This makes literally no sense.

Can't see the forest for the trees! But yeah, how exactly would BW's reasoning be better whether or not they use IT.

What would be stupid is if they said it wasn't IT despite playing it up like nobody's business and ironically, everybody's complaining that ME3 didn't deliver the hype! IT was hyped, but those against it couldn't care less.

This seems rather odd, no?

[GuardianAngel470]

At this point there's simply no way Indoc Theory was the plan all along. It took them too long to respond, took them too long make any commitments, and took them too long to say they were going to do something.

That said, if they went with it anyway it's possible it could please almost everyone. It's also possible they could screw it up immeasurably.

Which will happen if they do go for it is anybody's guess at this point.

[Repearized Miranda]

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Kabl0wzasan wrote...

Buzz Kill. However the endings as they were are just terribly written (full of plot holes and inconsistencies) and were poorly executed, and robbed the player of everything they played for.

If it was Indoctrination then the end of the game all took place in Shepard's head. Basically a dream sequence, and Shepard died not stopping the Reapers (the goal of the entire series). And it was not by player choice or fault, like even though I did everything right and had the highest level of whatever (cause it didn't matter) it was written as, well Reapers got Shepard, they won. Thank you for spending $200 and 200 hours on our games hope you enjoyed the Reapers winning and Shepard dieing, cause that's what happened (if Indoctrination is correct).

Ok you say, but what if I pick the red ending, that means Shepard's alive and when the new dlc hits we can all get the new ending new scenes explaining stuff.  Then ::sigh:: that means that the blue and green endings are wrong, and that you must always pick the red path to access the dlc content or whatever.  Then WHAT WAS THE POINT of kjflagf agjmvklmafkjvoiwemav afjwoifeivnoivniowu .... you know what?  It doesn't matter.  It was, the whole thing was extremely sloppy no matter what angle you approach it from.

That is false though - given what follows as this is also what is upsetting people - because you do "defeat the Reapers and become a Legend!" and who can say no to the child that asks to hear "one more story"?

Also, with the blue and green being wrong. Well, what was your goal from the beginning - not to mention coming face to face with those endings in the previous games (Saren - green; TIM - blue) and telling them to stuff it?

But yes, at face-value something went wrong if you need to explain yourself or taking it at face-value is the actual problem. I would think it's the latter or they wouldn't do this.

Like I said no matter how you look at it, the endings were sloppy (all of Mass Effect 3 was sloppy).

The Indoctrination theory doesn't make things better, it's equally as sloppy.  If (Indoctrination is the true ending) the Devs planned this from the very beginning then shame on them.  Indoctrination Theory and all of the other endings or theroies of the endings undermine the entire Mass Effect series.

I can say no to the little kid.  One more story?  NO!  No more stories.  No Mass Effect 4, No to Mass Effect: The Next Generation.  Mass Effect was planned as a trilogy, a beginning, middle, and end.  Three.  Not 4 or 5 or 6.  3!!!

I can only theroize that EA or Bioware, made the endings the way they are so they could string people along to buy more dlc, or to buy the next Mass Effect #.

The Indoctrination Theory is terrible along with any other theory or explination because the writing is terrible! 

It's not like I want to hate the endings or Mass Effect 3, I'm not going out of my way to hate it or dislike it.  I do because it's sloppy!  But I digress.

Well, then what can they do or what would people propose because you're saying to throw out the whole idea.

Was it done sloppily, perhaps; however, not everybody understands something that well structured either.Here though, it seems like no one wants to - that is why our hands are being held.

What would you have proposed they do since the first game, then? Explain human manipulation. What's the "theory" behind it? Why do people do it? Maybe it comes down to them using the wrong word since we're not that smart. Yet, we claim to be smarter than the writers and not just with video games.

Indoctrination = Manipulation! It's perhaps terrible because it's something smple minded folk don't get. That's a harsh generalization, but that concept is not hard to grasp for even such people. It's the other things surrounding it, but not anything is hard to grasp there either. "Friends trusting enemies!" "Believing that your friend is your foe!" "You're just a puppet!" Things like that! It's not as complicated - which apparently = convuluted, as people think.

People don't want to think and that is a major problem! No matter how well-done the writing is, if you intended for your audience to think, but they complain because they have to, that is not your problem! It's theirs. And with all these videos, etc., folks are thinking about it; the "complaining" overshadows it!

Do you work for Bioware?  You do, don't you?  It's cool 

Maybe Bioware can't do anything to fix the ending.  That they made mistakes that ruined Mass Effect 3 and the entire series.  And I say this because there were a lot of other mistakes in Mass Effect 3, which in order to fix the ending, they would have to fix the other mistakes.  I'm not going to go into it because it's just another long rant(but I would start with the Mass Effect 2 DLC, that's where they should've introduced the Catalyst or the Ultimate Independence Day Computer Virus weapon or whatever.), I mean I would rant for several pages.  I'd probably have to post a youtube video getting into what went wrong.  But many things.

I get it.  I get the Indoctrination Theory, I grasp and understand it.  Is it acceptable?  Is it  genius?  No.  Not as an ending.  Now I say that because if the whole Indoctrination happened in the middle of the game (Meaning, meeting the kid and having him give you the 3 options, and blah blah blah), then that would've been genius.  That's the key though in the middle not the end.

Before you say well... Maybe we are at the middle, no... nope.  When I paid $80.   When people buy a game  they expe  That was the end of the game.  We all got to it, that was it.  There were Credits.  Credits don't roll after the middle of something, they roll at the end.

But ok if my arm is to be twisted in the matter then that's how Bioware could fix it, have the whole Indoctrination be the middle of the game and then bam 15 more hours of gameplay, a true set of endings, and have it all be for free then sure, that's how you do it.

No. Here's why, but first let me give an example.

With any movie, you expect the beginning, middle and end to be great, right? Sadly, this doesn't always happen!

The beginning is good, but dips towards the middle, shoots upward again towards the end.

The beginning is bad, but everything else rises steadily, ending on a high note

You can come up with the other permutations.

Indeed, the game ended, but often folks are mad when they haven't paid attention to the beginning or middle.

Generally, a theme or idea is established in the beginning and is hopefully carried through to the end; however, while most validate IT in the first two games, it's now invalidated, because "Oh, it's not cool now!" (and this was not at all sudden!)

Who seriously nit-picked IT to death during ME or ME2? No one (besides, lore purists) because it didn't/wasn't supposed to phase Shepard. The other victims? Who cares about them? Now, that we clearly see Shepard phased by it ...

Shepard is mortal - not immortal. I don't like how Shepard was built up (building players hopes up by extension); yet, I totally get why they did it because everyone's is engrossed even with ME3's ending!

As to which part it should have been involved in - why not have him Indoctrinated from the get-go then? Rapid like you've never seen? It works better at the end (Slow Indoctrination) because this is what s/he's been fighting the whole time!

The Reapers used bait in every single instance. Saren was bait! TIM/Cerberus was bait! The Collectors were a distraction, but took your crew as bait! The child (Shepard's guilt) was bait! Harbinger knew what the hell he was doing! 

The ending should've been exactly as is! Shepard's external struggle always having been an internal one! And this has permeated onto every player who touched a controller!

The projecting the child out of Shepard's mind! Yet, what has every player done through the entire series? Projecting him/herself onto Shepard! If not, why is the "I lost control of Shepard" heard everywhere?

They got us! Hook, Line and Sinker! I don't think that a bad thing either! Why some do is beyond my comprehension!!

Writers have the toughest job! No matter how good something is, somebody somewhere won't like it.

No, I don't work for them, but knowing how audiences tend to react - because I'm part of that audience myself, I understand where all the negative feelings (and positive feelings) or coming from. However, I am my own person, too.

[Sharn01]

Its kind of late for IT, and as much as I liked the idea its obviously not going to happen.

Had the kid asked the old man,

Grandpa, is that how the story really ends?
To which the grandpa just chuckles a little bit.

Now that would have had everybody on the edge of their seat wanting to see what more was to come, IT would have been one of the theories and probably a very popular one until the DLC that finished the game came out, if it came out.

This did not happen, the game clearly ended, it ended in one of the most monumentally bad ways I have ever seen, but it ended. If they wanted to embrace IT theory as their own idea they missed the chance, at this point its to late to say that was their plan, because if it was it would have already been in the works to begin with, instead all other SP DLC is on hold for them to try and "fix" their current ending.

Modifié par Sharn01, 11 mai 2012 - 07:33 .

[Repearized Miranda]

Sharn01 wrote...

Its kind of late for IT, and as much as I liked the idea its obviously not going to happen.

Had the kid asked the old man,

Grandpa, is that how the story really ends?
To which the grandpa just chuckles a little bit.

Now that would have had everybody on the edge of their seat wanting to see what more was to come, IT would have been one of the theories and probably a very popular one until the DLC that finished the game came out, if it came out.

This did not happen, the game clearly ended, it ended in one of the most monumentally bad ways I have ever seen, but it ended. If they wanted to embrace IT theory as their own idea they missed the chance, at this point its to late to say that was their plan, because if it was it would have already been in the works to begin with, instead all other SP DLC is on hold for them to try and "fix" their current ending.

You're right! However, most assume that because they haven't outright said it, but it's been plastered everywhere - how could they have not been saying it?

If I am mad, I don't need to tell you. Just give you a look. It's not my fault if you're to inept not to pick up on it! But to blame me because I told you because you begged me to tell you - "I'm really pissed at you!"

That is the thing! People have told BW, that they are too stupid to get it. Not the other way around like some folks have said! But it's flipped on BW just because ...

A thought=provoking film is not stupid because you don't get it - you not getting it is your fault, not the film's!

[xbeton0L]

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Its kind of late for IT, and as much as I liked the idea its obviously not going to happen.

Had the kid asked the old man,

Grandpa, is that how the story really ends?
To which the grandpa just chuckles a little bit.

Now that would have had everybody on the edge of their seat wanting to see what more was to come, IT would have been one of the theories and probably a very popular one until the DLC that finished the game came out, if it came out.

This did not happen, the game clearly ended, it ended in one of the most monumentally bad ways I have ever seen, but it ended. If they wanted to embrace IT theory as their own idea they missed the chance, at this point its to late to say that was their plan, because if it was it would have already been in the works to begin with, instead all other SP DLC is on hold for them to try and "fix" their current ending.

You're right! However, most assume that because they haven't outright said it, but it's been plastered everywhere - how could they have not been saying it?

If I am mad, I don't need to tell you. Just give you a look. It's not my fault if you're to inept not to pick up on it! But to blame me because I told you because you begged me to tell you - "I'm really pissed at you!"

That is the thing! People have told BW, that they are too stupid to get it. Not the other way around like some folks have said! But it's flipped on BW just because ...

A thought=provoking film is not stupid because you don't get it - you not getting it is your fault, not the film's!

And this is where lots of people hop off the bandwagon. Regardless, a story is still nonetheless a story. How you tell it can determine if the listeners/readers have a good or bad response. Confusing your audience is probably the worst thing you can do, and if people ask for clarification and all they get is a more confusing response, perhaps it isn't the audience's fault for not being as competent as the storyteller. In fact since it is the storyteller's show, it's their priority to leave the audience with a digestible conclusion - regardless how easy or difficult it is to comprehend. For those of us that might've not have gotten it the first time, we'll figure it out in time eventually.

However with what Bioware has given us already, nothing can be logically deducted except the (current) Indoctrination Theory, which all-in-all could be a misinterpretation of the original story. And clarifying an ending that makes no sense except to accept it for what it is is justifiable and sensible to say it is unsatisfactory.

[billy shephard]

a tipsy field goal

[OdanUrr]

JBONE27 wrote...

Synthetic life is just that, "Synthetic," in other words, it can be recreated, and reprogramed.

It can be rebuilt, certainly, but you cannot re-create the same entity. You could not re-create Legion, with the same thoughts and personality, you would just be building a synthetic. Suppose Destroy didn't kill the Geth but, say, every Asari in the galaxy. Could you "rebuild" the Asari? With some DNA and the rights tools, sure. Does that mean you can re-create Liara? No, you could probably create a perfect physical copy of her through cloning but this Liara 2.0 would be completely different. In essence, you could re-create the biological species, but it would be a different civilization altogether.

[Repearized Miranda]

xbeton0L wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Its kind of late for IT, and as much as I liked the idea its obviously not going to happen.

Had the kid asked the old man,

Grandpa, is that how the story really ends?
To which the grandpa just chuckles a little bit.

Now that would have had everybody on the edge of their seat wanting to see what more was to come, IT would have been one of the theories and probably a very popular one until the DLC that finished the game came out, if it came out.

This did not happen, the game clearly ended, it ended in one of the most monumentally bad ways I have ever seen, but it ended. If they wanted to embrace IT theory as their own idea they missed the chance, at this point its to late to say that was their plan, because if it was it would have already been in the works to begin with, instead all other SP DLC is on hold for them to try and "fix" their current ending.

You're right! However, most assume that because they haven't outright said it, but it's been plastered everywhere - how could they have not been saying it?

If I am mad, I don't need to tell you. Just give you a look. It's not my fault if you're to inept not to pick up on it! But to blame me because I told you because you begged me to tell you - "I'm really pissed at you!"

That is the thing! People have told BW, that they are too stupid to get it. Not the other way around like some folks have said! But it's flipped on BW just because ...

A thought=provoking film is not stupid because you don't get it - you not getting it is your fault, not the film's!

And this is where lots of people hop off the bandwagon. Regardless, a story is still nonetheless a story. How you tell it can determine if the listeners/readers have a good or bad response. Confusing your audience is probably the worst thing you can do, and if people ask for clarification and all they get is a more confusing response, perhaps it isn't the audience's fault for not being as competent as the storyteller. In fact since it is the storyteller's show, it's their priority to leave the audience with a digestible conclusion - regardless how easy or difficult it is to comprehend. For those of us that might've not have gotten it the first time, we'll figure it out in time eventually.

However with what Bioware has given us already, nothing can be logically deducted except the (current) Indoctrination Theory, which all-in-all could be a misinterpretation of the original story. And clarifying an ending that makes no sense except to accept it for what it is is justifiable and sensible to say it is unsatisfactory.

It only seemed confused because no one took the time to examine - for themselves! And then, the ones that don't, blast the others because they did, but they're making less sense? How is this even possible? Or the anti-IT people tell others "It's best not to think about it!" and apparently BW has obliged. "Yeah, we'll walk you through everything that happened!" As if the five-second clip isn't enough!

If you tell somebody all this crazy stuff happened, they'll probably tell you you were dreaming - which odds are you were; however, how is it plausible and taken as truth in the real world, but debunked the fantasy world?

And dreams are confusing, but we don't wake up and scold ourselves for having such thoughts. We probably can't believe we had them.

And then we either seek outside interpretation which could be just as right as it is wrong; however, how is self-interpretation set-in-stone wrong?

I keep dreaming abot ME3 in some form! More than likely it's because I'm too enthralled amongst the environment. This could be wrong, but I upon self-interpretation, wouldn't dare argue against it nor would it be easy if I tried to.

I don't see how this can be a misinterpretation unless they come out and say: "No! It's not that! It never was! You guys read more into it than you should have (but we wanted you to)" How would that be for a kick in the jewels. 

However, they do it - and IT is looking very strong like now - it'll ****** people off! I have a feeling the clarification won't do what it set out to do. (And doesn't mean please the IT people)