65 réponses à ce sujet

[sombrus]

In all my years of judging I have never seen before, a spell that's so worthy of the fully praise of all. Truly, my friends, it's the best that we have here, a spell to be reviewed before its peers. So what will it be CALLED? WHAT WILL IT BE CALLED? WHAT WILL IT BE CALLED?

Mana Clash.

It's not so ridiculously powerful it's game breaking...

It's terribly useful so you're glad you have it...

It's not cheap, so you know you have to invest to get it...


It's situational, but situational in such a way that you know it'll be a life saver when that situation comes up.... and it comes up often enough to still be useful...


Get Mana Clash.

[Ulyn]

The thing is, any crowd control + any fast DPS focus will kill almost all casters; and all the other options don't require a tree with two essentially useless talents. By the time I can get mana clash (counting, of course, higher priority spells) casters are usually high priority but low risk.



I don't play on nightmare though; might be that.

[konfeta]

On the contrary, Mana Clash is horrendously broken. It's no different if there was an "Instantly Erase Archers" button or "Instantly Erase Melee" button.



They could have made it a single target spell with cast time, and it would still be one of the strongest spells in the game.

[FatLeprechaun7]

Ulyn wrote...

The thing is, any crowd control + any fast DPS focus will kill almost all casters; and all the other options don't require a tree with two essentially useless talents. By the time I can get mana clash (counting, of course, higher priority spells) casters are usually high priority but low risk.

I don't play on nightmare though; might be that.

(1) Yes, not playing on nightmare is a pretty big difference.

(2) A single spell that instantly kills all casters is a lot different than having to use "crowd control + fast DPS focus that kills almost all casters."  What if your high DPS rogue gets crushing prisoned?  This might go back to not playing on nightmare.

[nuculerman]

FatLeprechaun7 wrote...

Ulyn wrote...

The thing is, any crowd control + any fast DPS focus will kill almost all casters; and all the other options don't require a tree with two essentially useless talents. By the time I can get mana clash (counting, of course, higher priority spells) casters are usually high priority but low risk.

I don't play on nightmare though; might be that.

(1) Yes, not playing on nightmare is a pretty big difference.

(2) A single spell that instantly kills all casters is a lot different than having to use "crowd control + fast DPS focus that kills almost all casters."  What if your high DPS rogue gets crushing prisoned?  This might go back to not playing on nightmare.

Mana clash is far from needed to neutralize casters on nightmare.  But overall it does cost less talent points than alternatives.  But still, I only invest in mana clash if my PC or Morrigan is the only mage in the party.  If you have two mages, killing a group of mages without mana clash is as easy as 1,2,3.

1. Mass Paralysis or Sleep
2. Inferno,Tempest,Death Cloud or Blizzard
3. Fireball or Blood Wound

This kills all enemy mages.  I starting soloing with my blood mage/spirit healer on nightmare and when I ran into 4 or 5 maleficarum in the bercellian forest I only had to reload once.  Mind Blast, Blood Wound, Inferno,Glyph combo...lots of dead mages.

[Rainen89]

Mana Clash is silly because it works on bosses, I've one shot Zathrian with this spell, yes there are many, many ways to kill casters but none of the ones you just listed are a one shot instant aoe kill to any mage. Crushing Prison, Paralysis, Glyph of Neutralization, Blood wound, Blood control and many, many more do the same job. But none of them are an instant death shot.

[Ron Brugal]

that poor Hermit didnt see that spell coming.

[Naxarrath]

Mana clash is probably esiest way to get heavy hitter achievement and they say templars are mage killers, how about another mage?

[Valcutio]

Playing on Nightmare is srs bsns. Well, except for the fact that there's no achievement for it.

[borelocin]

Mana Clash is an "I Win" button on Nightmare - you have two casters and the enemy has several smoking bathrobes. You get to buff and heal against an unbuffed enemy with no healers that also lost it's glass cannons before the first salvo.

[Kanner]

NWN: Cleric: Harm still probably has it beat, but only for being non-situational.

[Zarenthar]

It's completely pointless to go for mana clash... There are better, more efficient strategies and ways to spec your casters and overcome most encounters quite frankly. Even on Nightmare I've had very little trouble with casters aside from a little fireball here and there and crushing prison near the end of the game. A simple Forcefield easily takes care of crushing prison too.

I really hope the OP plays on PC so he can respec his caster once he realizes that his caster could be much more useful.

Modifié par Zarenthar, 09 décembre 2009 - 01:05 .

[Staylost]

Then don't use it.

[nuculerman]

Zarenthar wrote...

It's completely pointless to go for mana clash... There are better, more efficient strategies and ways to spec your casters and overcome most encounters quite frankly. Even on Nightmare I've had very little trouble casters aside from a little fireball here and there and crushing prison near the end of the game. A simple Forcefield easily takes care of crushing prison too.

I really hope the OP plays on PC so he can respec his caster once he realizes that his caster could be much more useful.

Have you ever used mana clash or played a mage?  Mana clash is the single most effective way to deal with enemy mages.  Period.  On nightmare a grease fireball combo or a blizzard tempest combo doesn't even come close to finishing off yellow mages.  Mana clash does.  

Besides which you act like investing in mana clash wastes valuable spell slots.  There's no such thing if you're playing a mage.  All you need is CoC, crushing prison and one other cc/dps line and this game is trivial already as a mage.  Crushing prison + FF automatically takes two enemies out of the battle for the majority of its length.  Meanwhile CoC + some critical hits automatically kills the majority of white enemies in every battle.  Where you spend the rest of your talent points is completely determined by preference and playstyle.  Being able to one shot kill enemy mages is hardly wasting your extra slots.

[Invalidcode]

'I WIN' button against other mages. Instant ranged AOE, sometimes it kills the mages so fast that the game can't even register the death fast enough. (Mana clash, enemy mages runs around doing nothing, drop dead 10secs later...)

[konfeta]

"Much More Useful."

Pray do tell, why? Mana Clash allows to bypass demons, casters, and certain undead. In short, for 4 points, it allows you to autowin almost half of the encounters that are difficult compared to the rest of the game.

No amount of speccing your mage more efficiently will make the game noticeably easier than if simply getting Mana Clash.

Modifié par konfeta, 09 décembre 2009 - 12:10 .

[Zarenthar]

Once you force LoS and round them all up they are all sheeps. Even the strongest of mage dies with the others in despair and confusion.

[nuculerman]

Zarenthar wrote...

Once you force LoS and round them all up they are all sheeps. Even the strongest of mage dies with the others in despair and confusion.

Having fun talking out of your ***, yet?

[Skellimancer]

I cleared out the mage tower using mana clash on nightmare.

1shot almost every monster i came across.

Modifié par Skellimancer, 09 décembre 2009 - 01:47 .

[DragoonKain3]

I try to see spell lines as a whole rather than judge it only for the most powerful spell. So for anti-mage, you can go Anti-magic Ward, Neutralization Glyph, and Spell Clash.

Anti-magic Ward offers more dispels, but this is rendered pretty much moot by having a templar tank use cleanse area. You could also pretty much give 100% resistance to a templar tank if you wanted to, so this line is out.

Neutralization glyph is great to disable enemy mages, especially since they aren't smart enough to run outside the glyph. It also gives you Repulsion glyph, which is bar none the best CC when you hold a door chokepoint, while Warding glyph gives your tank and anyone around it even better defense. 

Spell Clash is undoubtedly the best anti-mage. It also gives you an extra 10% damage to your spells with spellmight, but that's not worth it on its own. That said, the entire line lack any versatility whasoever; its awesome against enemy mages, but practically useless against most everything else.

The more I look at it, the more I lean on giving Neutralization line being actually the best anti-mage line overall, as its almost as effective as spellclash but does much more than that . That said (pardon me using Magic:the Gathering terms), while I'm mostly a Spike, I still have a little Timmy deep in my heart, so I choose Spell Clash line because I like seeing big damage numbers even if it makes my build slightly less optimal lol. XD


In any case, I find Spell Clash's power is justified, considering the line gives you two UTTERLY USELESS spells, and one mediocre at best modal ability. Nerf spell clash's damage to the ground, and no doubt I will switch over to Neutralization Glyph line, which even now I feel is superior overall to it. :shrug:

[Tonya777]

The greatest spell in the game yes



I love how it totally annihilates any mages in 1 second flat

[Skellimancer]

How can anyone say Mana clash power is justified? Templars don't even get an ability as powerful as that and they are Mage hunters.

[Atmosfear3]

I have heard of someone getting somewhere in the 3500 damage range by casting Mana Clash on Gaxkang. I look forward to trying this myself in another playthrough sometime

[kevinwastaken]

If only you could wear mages' skin as armor.

[WillieStyle]

I think the people calling mana clash "situational" don't realize that almost all demons and most of the toughest undead (except revenants) count as "mages".



I don't think I could make a better textbook example of an overpowered spell if I tried.