65 réponses à ce sujet

[sombrus]

See, it's not just that it's very potent... it's not game breaking...while still being very useful... it's not must have all powerful... while still being quite potent.

[WillieStyle]

It insta-kills the "toughest" boss in the game. How is that not game breaking?

[knarayan]

Huh?

The Hurlock emissary in the Refugee quest resists it.

The yellow blood mage in the deserted building resists it.

Quite a few mages resist it.

Of course, when they dont, its 50% health off atleast...

[Dude1011]

WillieStyle wrote...

I think the people calling mana clash "situational" don't realize that almost all demons and most of the toughest undead (except revenants) count as "mages".

I don't think I could make a better textbook example of an overpowered spell if I tried.

Except perhaps cone of cold?

[nuculerman]

Dude1011 wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

I think the people calling mana clash "situational" don't realize that almost all demons and most of the toughest undead (except revenants) count as "mages".

I don't think I could make a better textbook example of an overpowered spell if I tried.

Except perhaps cone of cold?

 

the problem with CoC is that it can only perma freeze white enemies.  So though it is indeed overpowered, it's not an "I win button" on most bosses, though it is helpful.  Mana clash is an "I win button" on every thing the game classifies as a mage, including bosses.

[I ReVaNChisT I]

i still think nothing beats Wail of the Banshee from NWN 2/mask of the betrayer campaign, up your necromancy dc and clear entire rooms of living opponents.



for DAO i rekon the vulnerability hex+ Entropic Death combo owns, 900+ dmg with morrigan against the high dragon

[tranj84cl]

I ReVaNChisT I wrote...

i still think nothing beats Wail of the Banshee from NWN 2/mask of the betrayer campaign, up your necromancy dc and clear entire rooms of living opponents.

for DAO i rekon the vulnerability hex+ Entropic Death combo owns, 900+ dmg with morrigan against the high dragon

Spell contingency + Abu Dazim's Horrid Wilting stack would like to raise you all in.

[I ReVaNChisT I]

tranj84cl wrote...

I ReVaNChisT I wrote...

i still think nothing beats Wail of the Banshee from NWN 2/mask of the betrayer campaign, up your necromancy dc and clear entire rooms of living opponents.

for DAO i rekon the vulnerability hex+ Entropic Death combo owns, 900+ dmg with morrigan against the high dragon

Spell contingency + Abu Dazim's Horrid Wilting stack would like to raise you all in.

i said from NWN2 campaign Empowered Horrid Wilting is pretty awesome though

[Zarenthar]

Mages are pretty much the only threat in this game I'd rather fight them fair and square and still rail them =P



Just like SotC or taunt/FF you know it's OP so you don't use them.

[sombrus]

WillieStyle wrote...

It insta-kills the "toughest" boss in the game. How is that not game breaking?

The Revenants and the Dragons are arguably the toughest bosses in the game... and none of these are instagibbed by mana clash.


I won't say it's not a very potent spell, it is. It also costs 3 largely useless spells to get.

[marc_al]

I have played twice without this spell, and now, I have learned this spell and it is really a life saver.

A single spell and the enemy mage is useless (all the mages I have seen have survived the mana clash but are useless as they have no mana). Before, I had to attack the mage with an archer (or rogue hidden, or rush with tank (and generally, they finish the damned lightning before I am able to kill them)). Now, I only need to cast the spell.

Spell might doesn't seem to bad for me. The two other spells, I never tried them (because i use Mana clash).

[nuculerman]

 as for it being situational...

You basically need one spell in the circle tower: mana clash.  On nightmare you can one shot your way through the whole quest with just mana clash.  The only exception are a few undead in a couple rooms and a few templars in a couple rooms.  So pretty much with one spell you can one shot your way through 1/4 of the "main quest" on the hardest difficulty.  And people are trying to argue it's not over powered and highly situational?

I love when I go into a room full of templars at my high level and they all simultaneously holy smite me.  And I live.  Meanwhile, I enter a room with 6 abominations and with one spell every single one of them dies instantly.  It still baffles me that pretty much every class is better at killing mages than the class whose only purpose is to kill mages.  

[menasure]

use it or not ... can be boring or a life saver given the circumstances but i see no immediate reason to praise one spell in particular.
using manaclash is usually just not my preferred playing style because it does feel like an 'i win' spell but it is just an easier option which can be handy should the need ever arise.

oh and i have no particular trouble using templars against mages ... it comes down to gear mostly for any melee character to be effective ... unless you use one of the specials like shale or dog but even they have their own versions of gear. the thing is: mages are meant to be powerfull ... but they mainly are that from a distance. when you can get close they have already lost the fight.

Modifié par menasure, 09 décembre 2009 - 12:15 .

[Gecon]

For me, the only battle in the Mage Tower that was actually problematic was the one against the large group of Templars with that yellow mob in between.



Mana Clash wouldnt have helped much there, now would it.

[Mobisto]

Ulyn wrote...

The thing is, any crowd control + any fast DPS focus will kill almost all casters; and all the other options don't require a tree with two essentially useless talents. By the time I can get mana clash (counting, of course, higher priority spells) casters are usually high priority but low risk.

I don't play on nightmare though; might be that.

I play on nightmare, and I agree totally.

4 skill points are very very expensive in early game, if you beeline for mana clash you have a mage that can take out other mages, but otherwise useless.

Have you tried glyph of neutralization on mages? The glyph tree is one of the most awesome skill tree for mages IMHO; all 4 points well spent.

[Mobisto]

Gecon wrote...

For me, the only battle in the Mage Tower that was actually problematic was the one against the large group of Templars with that yellow mob in between.

Mana Clash wouldnt have helped much there, now would it.

You play a magic heavy party, right?

[Must have name]

Um... Mana Clash is sort've instant death to Mages...



I'm playing a solo Mage campaign right now and any Mages that appear in any fight get taken out in a second.

[tranj84cl]

nuculerman wrote...

 as for it being situational...

You basically need one spell in the circle tower: mana clash.  On nightmare you can one shot your way through the whole quest with just mana clash.  The only exception are a few undead in a couple rooms and a few templars in a couple rooms.  So pretty much with one spell you can one shot your way through 1/4 of the "main quest" on the hardest difficulty.  And people are trying to argue it's not over powered and highly situational?

Well, that is the definition of situational.  You're using a spell designed to kill mages in a mage tower. 

[usernamehere]

tranj84cl wrote...

I ReVaNChisT I wrote...

i still think nothing beats Wail of the Banshee from NWN 2/mask of the betrayer campaign, up your necromancy dc and clear entire rooms of living opponents.

for DAO i rekon the vulnerability hex+ Entropic Death combo owns, 900+ dmg with morrigan against the high dragon

Spell contingency + Abu Dazim's Horrid Wilting stack would like to raise you all in.

If we are allowing 2-spell combos, here's my addition:

1) Limited Wish: Failure -> Horde of enemies to overrun my foes
A "horde" of 20 wimpy bunny rabbits appear and surround your enemy

2) Wish: Failure -> Smite those in my sight
Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting cast on everyone in the area (including party)

That combo will hit a single boss with TWENTY-ONE horrid wiltings. It will one-shot both the Demogorgon and your video card.

[Koralt]

usernamehere wrote...

tranj84cl wrote...

I ReVaNChisT I wrote...

i still think nothing beats Wail of the Banshee from NWN 2/mask of the betrayer campaign, up your necromancy dc and clear entire rooms of living opponents.

for DAO i rekon the vulnerability hex+ Entropic Death combo owns, 900+ dmg with morrigan against the high dragon

Spell contingency + Abu Dazim's Horrid Wilting stack would like to raise you all in.

If we are allowing 2-spell combos, here's my addition:

1) Limited Wish: Failure -> Horde of enemies to overrun my foes
A "horde" of 20 wimpy bunny rabbits appear and surround your enemy

2) Wish: Failure -> Smite those in my sight
Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting cast on everyone in the area (including party)

That combo will hit a single boss with TWENTY-ONE horrid wiltings. It will one-shot both the Demogorgon and your video card.

Yes.

[Danakir]

There's about half a dozen various spell combos in Baldur's Gate alone that could put Mana Clash to shame.



Bioware's great and all, but avoiding cheese isn't their specialty.

[SfHell]

Mana clash is a good spell but not needed at all. You can breeze easily trought nightmare without it.

Actually if you have the force field crushing prison spells even with only one mage. Everything get's easy, you don't even need gylphs and mass paralyze. Force field is an extremly broken spell...



But late in the game a mage has a lot of spare points, I see a lot of people doing the full tree of fire/shock or ice...stopping at cone of cold and fireball is more than enough. Inferno on nightmare is kinda useless aside from some very especific situations, unless you build a 75% fire resistance party like I did, so you can just fireball everything in your way xD



As well I see guys spending points on the sleep , walking nightmare three, completely useless, walking nightmare scatters the whole mob, and you hardly have time to land a horror spell before your team hist the sleeping foe ( or he wakes up).



But in the end is all about the fun, I ended up putting the whole shapeshift on morrigan just for story sake, it's not a good tree but fun to use.



It really depends if you want to min/max or just make the game more challenging and play less orthodox, I say do both, the replay value of dragon age is the best +)

[themaxzero]

Getting Mana Clash is worth it for the Mage tower alone.



1) Heal + Glyph of Paralysis

2) Glyph of Warding

3) Glyph of Repulsion

4) Mind Blast

5) Force Field

Ostagar bonus Talent: Drain Mana

6) Mana Cleanse

7) Spell Might

8) Mana Clash

Bonus talent book 1: Flame Blast

9) Flame Weapons

10) Fireball

11) Inferno

Bonus talent book 2: Vul Hex

Bonus talent book 3: Aff Hex

12) Blood Magic

13) Blood Tap

14) Blood Wound

15) Blood Control

Redcliffe bonus talent: Arcane Warrior Combat Magic



Assuming your doing Mage Tower->Redcliff/Urn->Forest->Dwarfs you have Mana Clash for Tower, Fire for Undead in Redliffe and Forest and Blood Wound for the endgame.



As long as you have the three main enemy groups covered (Living, Fade, Undead) your set.

[Lycidas]

Skellimancer wrote...

How can anyone say Mana clash power is justified? Templars don't even get an ability as powerful as that and they are Mage hunters.

Templars kill mages by outnumbering them. They are not supposed to be stronger / win in a one vs. one situation.
And by the way holy smite is a big threat to any mage.

[Gecon]

Mobisto wrote...

Gecon wrote...

For me, the only battle in the Mage Tower that was actually problematic was the one against the large group of Templars with that yellow mob in between.

Mana Clash wouldnt have helped much there, now would it.

You play a magic heavy party, right?

Yes 1 Tank 1 Rogue 2 Mage

I restarted it and because of reading this thread, I decided to skill Mana Clash. The three spells you have to take to get it hurt a lot already.

And the spell gets resisted all the time. I have maxed my Magic stat and still half of the time Mana Clash had no effect at al.