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[Yggdrasil]

Dragon Age: Origins is perhaps my all time favorite video game.  It is the only game I have ever played a second time to conclusion.  One of the reasons I adore it is that, for the first time, I could play my character as a gay man.  That inclusiveness meant so much to me.

In that same vein, I would love for Dragon Age 3 to have a broader racial spectrum in its characters and NPC's.  Color-blind casting means that there is no reason or justification for a multicutural cast.  Race would be incidental, just as sexuality has been in the previous Dragon Age games.

I know this can be a charged topic, and stirring anything up couldn't be further from my intent.  I am simply and humbly asking Bioware to continue in its proud traditions of inclusiveness and thinking outside the box and to present us with a game in which everyone can find themselves.

[PsychoBlonde]

MichaelStJohn90068 wrote...

In that same vein, I would love for Dragon Age 3 to have a broader racial spectrum in its characters and NPC's.  Color-blind casting means that there is no reason or justification for a multicutural cast.  Race would be incidental, just as sexuality has been in the previous Dragon Age games.

Um, thus far we've had Kossith, Elves, Dwarves, a giant rock, a dog, and an animate corpse as companions.  How much of a broader racial spectrum do you want?

Or are you talking about wanting something like greater variety of skin tones solely for human characters?  (Some of the elves and dwarves are very dark-skinned, or, like Fenris, have even odder coloration.)  This was problematic in the first two games because they were set in countries far from whatever passes for Thedas' equator and thus places populated largely by pasty melanin-deficient persons, however even this wasn't universal:  Duncan and Isabela are rather swarthy because they're from Rivain.  I suspect if we meet some humans from Seheron and Par Vollen in DA3, they'll be even darker, like, say, Ethiopians.  (I hope they are, otherwise there's no sense in this game!)

I'd kind of like to see Bioware (or another developer) do a game that's based in an equatorial setting where the largest portion of the characters are dark-skinned, yah.  However, I think you kind of have to put this whole race thing in context when you're talking fantasy, because it gets a little silly when people start asking for dark (or light!) skin when some of the characters have HORNS and CLAWS.

[Yggdrasil]

LOL! I guess I should have been more specific. But I'm not just talking skin hue. I'd like to see Asians represented, as well.

And my suggestion is that people of color exist in all countries and societies in Thedas instead of having to be from a particular place. I know that isn't how Ferelden and Kirkwall were presented in the first two games, hence my desire to see Dragon Age 3 change that.

Thank you for your comments.

Modifié par MichaelStJohn90068, 08 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[Tigerman123]

I agree, there's no reason for Thedas to be monoracial, it'd be unlikely for a medieval northern European to have met someone of a different skin colour, but for a mediterranean it'd be quite possible. I think this links with their comments about an inclusive world also, why would you want to create a world dominated by one particular ethnicity?

I like that you can make someone non white at least

Modifié par Tigerman123, 08 mai 2012 - 05:12 .

[Zanallen]

MichaelStJohn90068 wrote...

LOL! I guess I should have been more specific. But I'm not just talking skin hue. I'd like to see Asians represented, as well.

And my suggestion is that people of color exist in all countries and societies in Thedas instead of having to be from a particular place. I know that isn't how Ferelden and Kirkwall were presented in the first two games, hence my desire to see Dragon Age 3 change that.

Thank you for your comments.

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of mass travel in Thedas. Most people are poor and traveling to another country isn't exactly cheap. Thedas is stuck in the equivalent of the Middle Ages after all. The vast majority of the population in any country is going to be made up of natives to that country. Since Ferelden is basically England and Kirkwall is very close geographically, there isn't going to be much in the way of dark skinned people.

[Nerdage]

MichaelStJohn90068 wrote...

Race would be incidental, just as sexuality has been in the previous Dragon Age games.

I don't think you can really equate the two. A character doesn't need a reason for their sexuality, at least I don't think so, but a character that's a different race for no reason is a bit conspicuous, especially since we don't even know if all the real-world races have in-game counterparts.

For instance I don't think we've seen any race akin to asian, so if from now on 1 / n characters were asian that would look more to me like tokenism than any real attempt at inclucivity, the time for which was back when they were building the world in the first place. Not that I think Thedas should even represent every race, it's only one continent after all, short of opening up new parts of the world I think it's about as diverse as it needs to be.

[Maria Caliban]

But Thedas is obviously a land steeped in the culture, legends, and socio-historical realities of Northern Europe. Mixing in more non-white humans would ruin their careful reconstruction of the Dark Ages.

[wsandista]

Maria Caliban wrote...

But Thedas is obviously a land steeped in the culture, legends, and socio-historical realities of Northern Europe. Mixing in more non-white humans would ruin their careful reconstruction of the Dark Ages.

Well the Roman Empire(Tevinter in DA) did conquer many African nations...
Though that would mean all non-whites would be slaves, which wouldn't be a good thing for a color-blind game.

[brushyourteeth]

I don't think the DA devs ever intended for each country in Thedas to perfectly represent a real-world nation. They draw inspiration from the real world, but it's not a clear-cut formula.

If there are people in Thedas who look Asian, we just don't really know much about them yet. But some of the most beautiful (imo) female character presets in both games looked Asian, so we know it's something that the team has at least thought about.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 08 mai 2012 - 09:25 .

[Yggdrasil]

Wow! I have to say that I'm overwhelmingly disappointed by the responses this topic elicited, and most of you still don't understand the concept I'm suggesting, particularly those who seem to have to have a reason or justification for seeing non-whites around them. I was hoping to find some support from fans, but my only real interest is putting this before the Bioware development team and hope that they give it serious consideration.

[Dakota Strider]

Wanting to be political correct, for the sake of being political correct? You do not know what you are asking for. The DA team wanted a way to have different accents of the same language, so that you could get the feel of different regions/countries of Thedas, without them actually speaking totally different languages. So, using Old European culture worked very well for this. You can have your French accents for the Orlesians, the Sicilian accents for Antivans, Welsh or Irish accents for elves, etc. Now, if they were to do as the OP wishes and include real world nations/regions where the population is dark skinned, would they not also use the cliched accents of those regions too?

It is considered acceptable to make fun of European accents, but I think that Bioware would open themselves up for attacks, if they were to use nationalities with the English accent used in India, or in Africa. And so by trying to be politically correct, they actually would upset the politically correct.

[JustifiablyDefenestrated]

I completely agree with the op. There is no reason for the Dragon Age universe to abide by the same stereotypes that prevail in other high-fantasy settings. I mean, I love Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings, but it'd be nice to see a world that represented more than the prevailing interpretation of what a fantasy setting should look like (i.e. white and male-dominated (not to say that DA is male-dominated)). They've already made a lot of progress including different sexual orientations, but I'd love to see more ethnicities represented--there's lots of opportunities for conflicts between cultures that haven't been introduced yet. It'd be especially interesting to look at how the Asian cultural interpretations of dragons played into the fabric of the universe.

Personally, I think it's missing the point to say that being politically correct for the sake of being politically correct is somehow wrong. If no one even attempts to be politically correct, then the issues are just going to be swept under the rug... Just my two-cents.

[TheCharmedOne]

JustifiablyDefenestrated wrote...

I completely agree with the op. There is no reason for the Dragon Age universe to abide by the same stereotypes that prevail in other high-fantasy settings. I mean, I love Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings, but it'd be nice to see a world that represented more than the prevailing interpretation of what a fantasy setting should look like (i.e. white and male-dominated (not to say that DA is male-dominated)). They've already made a lot of progress including different sexual orientations, but I'd love to see more ethnicities represented--there's lots of opportunities for conflicts between cultures that haven't been introduced yet. It'd be especially interesting to look at how the Asian cultural interpretations of dragons played into the fabric of the universe.

Personally, I think it's missing the point to say that being politically correct for the sake of being politically correct is somehow wrong. If no one even attempts to be politically correct, then the issues are just going to be swept under the rug... Just my two-cents.

couldnt agree more.. .well said

[Das Tentakel]

Maria Caliban wrote...

But Thedas is obviously a land steeped in the culture, legends, and socio-historical realities of Northern Europe. Mixing in more non-white humans would ruin their careful reconstruction of the Dark Ages.

I detect a hint of sarcasm here;).
Well played, Maria.

[Silfren]

MichaelStJohn90068 wrote...

Wow! I have to say that I'm overwhelmingly disappointed by the responses this topic elicited, and most of you still don't understand the concept I'm suggesting, particularly those who seem to have to have a reason or justification for seeing non-whites around them. I was hoping to find some support from fans, but my only real interest is putting this before the Bioware development team and hope that they give it serious consideration.

Unfortunately, it's the general response whenever anyone tries to suggest that Bioware be more inclusive toward people of color.  The very people who are overwhelmingly represented by the game come out in force to defend to the death why it is totally acceptable and natural and realistic and logical for Thedas to be predominantly white and whine about how it would OMGUNREALISTIIIIIIIIIIIC for people of color to be represented in larger numbers.

You have my support in full.  There's no good reason for there not to be more people of color shown in the Dragon Age setting. 

[Maria Caliban]

Das Tentakel wrote...

I detect a hint of sarcasm here;).
Well played, Maria.

You probably saved me from a warning.

[brushyourteeth]

JustifiablyDefenestrated wrote...

I completely agree with the op. There is no reason for the Dragon Age universe to abide by the same stereotypes that prevail in other high-fantasy settings. I mean, I love Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings, but it'd be nice to see a world that represented more than the prevailing interpretation of what a fantasy setting should look like (i.e. white and male-dominated (not to say that DA is male-dominated)). They've already made a lot of progress including different sexual orientations, but I'd love to see more ethnicities represented--there's lots of opportunities for conflicts between cultures that haven't been introduced yet. It'd be especially interesting to look at how the Asian cultural interpretations of dragons played into the fabric of the universe.

Personally, I think it's missing the point to say that being politically correct for the sake of being politically correct is somehow wrong. If no one even attempts to be politically correct, then the issues are just going to be swept under the rug... Just my two-cents.

It seems to me that the only reason that most of the Thedans we've come across have been light-skinned is that Fereldans and Free Marchers are typically light-skinned. We started in the nation that represented ground often covered in fantasy settings (England) - but this next game is supposedly branching out to include Antiva, Rivain, and the Tevinter Imperium (all warmer climates, ethnic diversity, darker skin).

I can understand the frustration that comes from feeling you're not being represented, but it isn't fair to insinuate that Bioware favors white people. It's just because Fereldan and Kirkwall are almost all we've seen so far.

[M0RD3CA1 VII]

Hm, well, there is Nyree from Dragon Age: Redeption. She's black. I'm hoping Bioware will bring her in as a full companion in Dragon Age 3.

As far as Asian goes, I don't know. Might start looking like Jade Empire. jk.

[JustifiablyDefenestrated]

brushyourteeth wrote...

It seems to me that the only reason that most of the Thedans we've come across have been light-skinned is that Fereldans and Free Marchers are typically light-skinned. We started in the nation that represented ground often covered in fantasy settings (England) - but this next game is supposedly branching out to include Antiva, Rivain, and the Tevinter Imperium (all warmer climates, ethnic diversity, darker skin).

 

Yep! And, DA3 would be the perfect opportunity to introduce all that ethnic diversity! Especially since it's going to be set in a previously unexplored country. Also, even England had contact with other nations-- they traded for tea and spices with India, they had African slaves, and retrieved (kidnapped) Native Americans. It seems like if there's going to be a hub-city, it'd be a good opportunity to present other cultures. I'm not saying that there should be equal numbers of every race (actually, that'd be pretty sweet)--but it'd be nice to have a follower or two that wasn't necessarily caucasian.

 
I can understand the frustration that comes from feeling you're not being represented, but it isn't fair to insinuate that Bioware favors white people. It's just because Fereldan and Kirkwall are almost all we've seen so far.

I actually feel well represented, I just feel like there could be a larger spectrum of representation.  And I'm not insinuating that Bioware is racist-- they're clearly not. I do, however, feel that fantasy settings and games in general favor a white persepective. Because it's a fantasy genre, there's no reason, other than tradition, for the next game to only depict caucasians. Bioware could have eliminated gay/lesbian romances because they aren't as common within our society, but they decided not to. They make the rules, therefore the rules don't have to conform to our idea of a traditional fantasy setting. That's all, just my opinion.

Modifié par JustifiablyDefenestrated, 09 mai 2012 - 04:23 .

[brushyourteeth]

JustifiablyDefenestrated wrote...

Yep! And, DA3 would be the perfect opportunity to introduce all that ethnic diversity! Especially since it's going to be set in a previously unexplored country. Also, even England had contact with other nations-- they traded for tea and spices with India, they had African slaves, and retrieved (kidnapped) Native Americans. It seems like if there's going to be a hub-city, it'd be a good opportunity to present other cultures. I'm not saying that there should be equal numbers of every race--but it'd be nice to have a follower or two that wasn't necessarily caucasian.

I actually feel well represented, I just feel like there could be a larger spectrum of representation.  And I'm not insinuating that Bioware is racist-- they're clearly not. I do, however, feel that fantasy settings and games in general favor a white persepective. Because it's a fantasy genre, there's no reason, other than tradition, for the next game to only depict caucasians. Bioware could have eliminated gay/lesbian romances because they aren't as common within our society, but they decided not to. They make the rules, therefore the rules don't have to conform to our idea of a traditional fantasy setting. That's all, just my opinion.

Gotcha - that made a lot more sense. I was just getting the idea that you were much more angry than it seems you actually are. It sounded like there were two arguments happening in this thread - 1.) that no ethnicity besides caucasian is represented (which isn't actually true) and 2.) that Thedas is full of racial stereotypes. Those two don't fit together - you can't stereotype something that's not included! I also don't think Fereldan is a very close representation of England, or that Denerim is really much of a hub. Fereldans in general don't really have that much to be proud of besides dogs, Andraste, and their ability to scrape out a living.

It's a really interesting discussion, because of course we all want to feel like we can identify with this little world that we play in. But in DA skin color really seems to be a complete non-issue. I mean they literally never seem to talk about it. And the slavery thing won't get touched with a ten-foot pole. Most of us would like to pretend that never happened in real life, while the people of Thedas seem to be too busy enslaving elves to target specifically dark-skinned humans.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 09 mai 2012 - 02:35 .

[Dakota Strider]

If the DA team already has intentions of displaying their "inclusiveness" for DA3, that is fine. However, if the parts of Thedas that they plan to uncover contains the same type of people as we have seen before, then that is their story. Somewhere, they have a huge outline, with maps included, that they have of the Dragon Age world laid out, and the main plot lines they hope to follow. And knowing Bioware, they will have a more diverse human population than what we have seen....but it is possible that it is not present on Thedas, at least not in the parts we will have a chance to interact with so far.

Since we have already seen examples of the races from the known nations in Thedas, I am doubting we will see much different in DA3. From what has been hinted, we are going to see Orlais, and a few other neighboring countries. After the larger exploration of Thedas in DA3, I think DA4 is when they will introduce a new continent, or perhaps a previously unreachable area of Thedas. And it will be in DA4 where we can expect to see examples of races, other than what we have seen so far.

It is the DA team's story, let them tell it as they have planned. If it was already their plan to show other than pale skinned humans in the next game, great. If not, and they change their story to include some, because of pressure, that will be nothing more than pandering. And to me, that is just as bad as if they specifically planned to exclude someone, because of race (which there is no indication they would do. They have shown different human races in other games they have made.)

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 09 mai 2012 - 03:20 .

[wijse]

There needs to be a handicapped person!

[Dakota Strider]

wijse wrote...

There needs to be a handicapped person!

Sandal doesn't count?

[JustifiablyDefenestrated]

Please disregard this.

Modifié par JustifiablyDefenestrated, 11 mai 2012 - 04:34 .

[brushyourteeth]

Only as far as diversity goes. And there's absolutely nothing shameful about being handicapped.

But at least we do have Nedezda: living with a knee injury since way before it was popular in Skyrim.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 09 mai 2012 - 02:59 .