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[TSA_383]

Bill Casey wrote...

End of The First Matrix


If Shepard is successfully fighting off Indoctrination, I can see the parallels...
Shepard is The One...

I wonder how they'd reason Shepard as able to stand against the indoctrination...
Maybe bring back something to do with the Prothean cipher? Or something more recent? Pure willpower?

[Capthon]

He is THE Shepard. ;-)
Maybe the Crew will help him?

[hexediter]

In the frame of the first matrix you are talking about the hero's death as necessary to realize his potential in a rebirth, but it is really just a beginning (introduced by his new powers no less). In terms of the feelings it gives it's fairly triumphant where as brave new world is fairly depressing if not morose ending, even if john does manage to salvage his humanity in suicide it's not much to celebrate or be happy about.

Looking at the two they seem fairly far apart outside of some of the main themes outside the endings, like giving up your life force to power the very system that is enslaving you.

Also, the architect is a much better character then space child for many reasons, not the least of which being that he wasn't brought onto the last 15 minutes of the ending of a trilogy with little to no exposition after Neo chose a door as to what that choice would mean. The two seem to share very little in common outside of leading a machine like race and presenting a choice.

[CARL_DF90]

Wow. That might actually work.

[Ravereth]

TSA_383 wrote...

^Taking from Mac Walters' notes, got me thinking about the things "the matrix" and "brave new world" have in common. If you're unfamiliar with the end of brave new world, it's essentially about a world state in which people are conditioned through constant indoctrination (the traditional kind, not the "magnetic waves, buzzing etc" kind) in order to make them "perfect" citizens and to maintain order. Emotions are discouraged, because without deep emotions, people are told they will not suffer, and everyone has a kind of superficial happiness.

At the end, three of the main characters confront a man known as "The Controller", the core of it is that the people are kept content and controlled, but so much is lost as to make them no longer human. I think you can probably see how this ties in, but it still doesn't really cover where they may be going with this.

I didn't know about this book, but everytime I watched synthesis ending, I couldn't understand why soldiers don't celebrate the victory by waving their weapons in air...

Modifié par Ravereth, 08 mai 2012 - 10:41 .

[Ravereth]

TSA_383 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

End of The First Matrix


If Shepard is successfully fighting off Indoctrination, I can see the parallels...
Shepard is The One...

I wonder how they'd reason Shepard as able to stand against the indoctrination...
Maybe bring back something to do with the Prothean cipher? Or something more recent? Pure willpower?

Or Shepard is just "remarkably strong-willed" 

[Baa Baa]

Nice analysis. I so hope that the starchild is lying. Sure the ending is still a total rip off of matrix and deus ex, but at least that little bastard will be wrong.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

Interesting.

Although everytime I see Neo choosing to go back in the Matrix, I remember a similar (in a certain point of view ) scene:

"Decide you must, how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could; but you would destroy all for which they have fought, and suffered." - Yoda

[dorktainian]

so this is all a dream, and shep has to die so he can be freed from the illusion of the program (indoctrination) ?

ah right so if this is the end of 'The Matrix' and Shep is free from Indoctrination (and maybe us all if the Citadel is destroyed along with the Relays) then will we finally find out exactly who controls the Reapers / initiated the indoctrination ?

[Brother Takka]

Good read there OP. The end makes a little more sense now.

[MattFini]

This is a good theory and I thoroughly enjoyed the read.

However, if this *IS* what Walters and Hudson tried to do with the ending of ME3 it feels all the more depressing to me. Ripping off a series of films that got worse and worse as they went along is a terrible idea, but that they did this instead of coming up with something more original is even worse.

ME deserved its own ending, not something borrowed from some hackneyed sci-fi sequels.

However, does this mean we'll get ME3.5, or an ME3 expansion at some point over the next year? All would be forgiven if that were the case.

[Alexius]

I see how it makes sense, put like that.

However, that ending fit The Matrix universe and lore. Though I see the parallels between the Architect scene and the Catalyst one, I still believe The Matrix kind of ending doesn't fit the ME universe at all.

The reason why the addition of the Architect makes sense in the movies is because that's what it was all about: humans stuck in a virtual reality created by machines and controlled by programs. That's not, in any way, what happens in ME. It doesn't fit the rest of the series.

[jeff359]

MattFini wrote...

This is a good theory and I thoroughly enjoyed the read.

However, if this *IS* what Walters and Hudson tried to do with the ending of ME3 it feels all the more depressing to me. Ripping off a series of films that got worse and worse as they went along is a terrible idea, but that they did this instead of coming up with something more original is even worse.

ME deserved its own ending, not something borrowed from some hackneyed sci-fi sequels.

However, does this mean we'll get ME3.5, or an ME3 expansion at some point over the next year? All would be forgiven if that were the case.

Agreed

[frozngecko]

I am now in tears....you have made me simultaneously believe in the Matrix Trilogy and the ME3 ending...

I love you.

I still wish the ending was better written.

Modifié par frozngecko, 08 mai 2012 - 12:56 .

[StElmo]

TSA_383 wrote...

Discuss.

There are only a few stories in the world, and I would be absolutely okay with ME using a similar themed end sequence, except, only if it made sense through the IT or something similar, like how the matrix worked.

Modifié par StElmo, 08 mai 2012 - 01:00 .

[LordRaptor]

In relation tO the end of the first matrix; recall the color of the pill that woke Neo up/freed him, RED. Remember the color of the pill that would keep him dreaming, BLUE.

See the corellation?

Destroy is RED and is the only ending in which Shepard wakes up.

Cypher said, "Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?" referring to continuing the dream. CyPher was a traitor.

Curious color schemes.

[Afrolash]

I think the most important line between Neo and the Architect is this:

Neo: "Bull****"

Give Shepard the ability to say that, and a lot of problems will be solved.

[StElmo]

Afrolash wrote...

I think the most important line between Neo and the Architect is this:

Neo: "Bull****"

Give Shepard the ability to say that, and a lot of problems will be solved.

Provided it was indoctreination, absolutely.

[sorentoft]

Straws. You grasp them with great resolve.

[Linkenski]

Why does Walters' notes say "LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE" at the bottom of the sheet? Does he refer to fans speculating on what happen next because of the open ending?

[We Tigers]

Another similarity: it was ridiculous in the Matrix series, too. The "lore" in the second and third movies was so universally slammed that I'm surprised anyone would really draw inspiration from it, except to say "let's make sure we don't end up like that."

[dorktainian]

[bFootball]

As has been said, the OP does make a lot of sense. I hope something like this appears in the EC. I remember studying Brave New World in high school. Even though it was written in the 30s it's still incredibly applicable.

I think BW (read Hudson and Walters) knew they couldn't put the ending they wanted in, given their March deadline. Therefore, they deliberately left it open ended and ambiguous with the plan the flesh it out later through DLC. They were expecting us to be speculating and hypothesizing about what happened. The backlash, however, caught them by surprise (even though it shouldn't have).

Modifié par bFootball, 08 mai 2012 - 02:24 .

[Unschuld]

MattFini wrote...
ME deserved its own ending, not something borrowed from some hackneyed sci-fi sequels. 

But in all honesty, what storytelling doesn't borrow elements from other stories that came before it? Borrowing themes and putting a slight twist on them to make a new tale is something that's been done since the time of the Sumerians (and likely before that).