36 réponses à ce sujet

[bEVEsthda]

robertthebard wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I'd like to present the, apparently very individual and novel, opinion, that these tactic slots, this DIY- AI-programming represents a direction that the gameplay should never have taken.

It was the same going back to BG. The only real difference is that writing AI scripts was a lot more involved.
Micromanging is fine if you need to do it. In DA I need to do it about 10% of the time, removing AI scripting would make that 90% extremely tedious. I don't care how the party does things, I only care that they get done.

My first thought was "Gee, they've been doing things like this since Baldur's Gate, if to a lesser degree".  It is very definitely not a new trend, it is, however, getting more and more refined every time it comes up.  It works much better for me than {Pause} Issue commands to all party members{/pause} only to find out that half of them forgot what they were supposed to do, so {pause} reissue{/pause} until they get it right.

Yes. As I said this all started when they tried to make BG look like RTS. But in those days you could configure the pauses, to a playable scheme.
To configure pauses, it leads to micromanaging. (But it's much better micromanaging, than constantly pause and try to figure out what chars are currently doing or how far they are on their task.)
To configure the AI, is a further solution to the problem of chars spending substantial time not doing anything sensible, if you don't configure pauses. But I also said this before.

I gather none of you have a clue what's wrong here? Or, should I say, what I feel is going wrong. So let me elaborate it this way: I don't feel the party combat gameplay should consist of either programming, or watching the combat play out. That's opinion, yes, but I think the gameplay has by then sidetracked quite far away from where I feel it should naturally be.

Configuring pauses, I quite liked that micromanaging, even though it was dangerously close to tedious. It had some solid advantages. One was for instance really playing the game, playing the battle, first hand. I liked that. It forced you to understand the anatonomy of the battle in detail. And the system's precision also allowed for winning some really bonehard encounters. I'm remembering those last battles in 'Trials of Luremaster', for one thing.
It would be better, than the blank-pause micro managing, but it's not really what I ask for.

[philippe willaume]

Yes it is possible to make an action rpg with a specific DA flavour

Rather those tactical slots I'd rather have talents with meaningful tactical use (and that would go a long way towards RTS)

I would use the current tactical slot more as behaviour/generic strategy/high level tactics drivers using generic taxonomy rather than having to explicitly spell out every option.

so to change you tactical approach you could select a different tactic.
I like the pause; I have to say that for me it is because it is less painful than the tactical slot

[Elhanan]

Being able to climb and hide, assault from higher ground, and like tactics are the ones I want the most; not just GUI loaded abilities.

[AkiKishi]

Elhanan wrote...

Being able to climb and hide, assault from higher ground, and like tactics are the ones I want the most; not just GUI loaded abilities.

Been playing Dragons Dogma?

[Elhanan]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Been playing Dragons Dogma?

Nope; SWTOR among others, but the DA series allows for some, too. I wish that such tactics were more present, rather than the 'MMO' related stuns, interrupts, and GUI tricks.

In the military, I still recall seing a demonsration of light discipline, and why it is not safe to light a cigarette after dark. Or why to make use of concealment occasionally; not only cover And from my PnP days, why one carries seasonings, fishing line and hooks, and other misc gear into some situations.

I simply want combat to be more than playing Simon on the GUI.

[AkiKishi]

Elhanan wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Been playing Dragons Dogma?

Nope; SWTOR among others, but the DA series allows for some, too. I wish that such tactics were more present, rather than the 'MMO' related stuns, interrupts, and GUI tricks.

In the military, I still recall seing a demonsration of light discipline, and why it is not safe to light a cigarette after dark. Or why to make use of concealment occasionally; not only cover And from my PnP days, why one carries seasonings, fishing line and hooks, and other misc gear into some situations.

I simply want combat to be more than playing Simon on the GUI.

Just wondered because those are all tactics you can use in Dragons Dogma.

[deuce985]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I'd like to present the, apparently very individual and novel, opinion, that these tactic slots, this DIY- AI-programming represents a direction that the gameplay should never have taken.

I do not agree. It is a quick abstraction of pre-fight planning - "Merrill, whenever I smash some one's head with my shield, use that opening to blast the enemy with your chain lightning spell. Aveline, if you draw too much attention and get surrounded, fall into a full defensive pose until we can clear the enemies off you" etc.

It simulates a real P&P RPG session where characters react off each other, yet you only focus on what you're doing with your own character at any given time. The other characters are, after all, NPCs and can only be commanded by you because no AI is perfect.

I agree with this person and the adorable asari avatar.

bEVEsthda, I totally understand where you're coming from. But I've personally moved past motivations in gaming like that.

I'd also like to add, this is more immersion to the game for me. If I had it my way, I'd alter the battle system even more to completely remove pausing where it's no longer needed. I still think by doing this, it would add a lot more visceral feel to the combat. I don't think it would sacrifice a tactical combat system either if done right. You can still have plenty of tactics, it's just done in a different way. DA2 was exactly like this.

That allows me to do whatever I want and not worry about interrupting combat to give my companions individual commands. However, I do admittedly miss some elements in DA:O's combat. The perfect formula for me would be something between DA:O and DA2's combat. The challenge for Bioware is making a battle system that sits between both games and takes the best of both worlds.

Modifié par deuce985, 22 juin 2012 - 08:35 .

[gorefiesta]

A trap disabing tactic for my rogues. <_<

They sense one? They disable it. My PC isn't on fire or skewered or knee-deep in acid.

[Merlex]

gorefiesta wrote...

A trap disabing tactic for my rogues. <_<

They sense one? They disable it. My PC isn't on fire or skewered or knee-deep in acid.

Heck, i'd just settle for an action icon that i could put in the quickbar. They could make it so you would have to sense the trap first. Put this having to put my mouse curser on it and click, sucks.

[TonberryFeye]

I'd like Trapfinding to apply to the PARTY, not the Rogue. The amount of times I've blundered into a trap because the rogue is dawdling at the back (and in both Origins and 2 my rogue is usually a range-attacker, hence NOT the guy to have on point) is just not funny.
Have it done from the point man, and then force the player to decide whether or not to move the rogue up and disarm it.

[hero 2]

Being attacked by
-> 0 enemies,
-> 1 enemies,
-> 2 enemies,
-> more than 2 enemies.

Target nearest:
-> mage
-> rogue
-> warrior
(it doesn't seem to work at the moment, often I find enemy mages wandering around unharassed despite prioritising them in tactics).

[Merlex]

hero 2 wrote...

Being attacked by
-> 0 enemies,
-> 1 enemies,
-> 2 enemies,
-> more than 2 enemies.

and for shutting down high costing sustain:

< 3 enemies
< 2 enemies.

Target nearest:
-> mage
-> rogue
-> warrior
(it doesn't seem to work at the moment, often I find enemy mages wandering around unharassed despite prioritising them in tactics).

Hmm, nearest visable works for me. But usually i have Varric use Miasmic Flask on them.