112 réponses à ce sujet

[brfritos]

AlanC9 wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...
Yeah, except that all the fetch quests combined equal the zots need for about 0.1 LotSBs in all likelihood. So that's an unrealistic wish.

The fetch quests aren't very interesting, but they are less tedious than the mineral scanning that they replace. At least they are over faster and have a bit of story to them.

It would obviously be clearly better if you actually landed and rescued the Shadowbroker Wet Team or the Elcor soldiers. Even just a brief cinematic of you flying in providing cover fire for the evacuation would be better. But that significantly increases the resources required to make them.

Yeah, that's my take.

This strikes me as being similar to the reaction to, say, the companions' one-liner responses on the Normandy after missions. Sure, those would have been better if each was a full conversation, but that wasn't going to happen anyway.

People need to remember that the chief rival for a cheap implementation isn't a more expensive implementation; it's cutting the feature altogether. ME fans should be quite familiar with how that works.

But there are two types of eavesdropping quests in the game, one is the old fetch-quests we are all used to and the other is actually listening the whole conversation that occour several times, only then you have a result in the Spectre Terminal.
I've found the later really good because you have a story behind it, a reason for it and a consequence if you autorize or not the action in the Spectre Terminal.

But the first ones are not that different than the mineral scanning from ME2, so this begs the question of why wasting resources in all those dialogs, specially because even if you walk away the dialog still follows you and you still get the quest, even if you are on the other side of the Presidium.
Why actually not letting the player discovering the things for themselves, the Heating Unit Stabilizer used in the joke is a good example, because even if you avoid hearing the conversation or the NPC you will get the item when doing a certain N7 mission and the quest will appear in your hournal.

This way Bioware would have resources and time to actually create a mission where you land and rescue the Shadow Broker squad or Elcor survivors, wich enhance the game experience.

[Darth Wraith]

While the eavesdropping method may have its issues, it's vastly preferable to having to run up to people standing around with a giant exclamation marks above their heads. Talk about immersion-breaker.

[slimgrin]

Darth Wraith wrote...

While the eavesdropping method may have its issues, it's vastly preferable to having to run up to people standing around with a giant exclamation marks above their heads. Talk about immersion-breaker.

Entirely irrelavent as to the quality of the quests themselves.

[Icinix]

Darth Wraith wrote...

While the eavesdropping method may have its issues, it's vastly preferable to having to run up to people standing around with a giant exclamation marks above their heads. Talk about immersion-breaker.

I would happily take those exclamation marks if it meant more dialogue and an actual side mission with something new and different in it as opposed to "Oh, you're looking for pickled eyeballs? I just happened to find this random planet when I was flying the mako to benny hill music."

[BatmanPWNS]

I think they just made it so they have to bother making actual conversations and dialogue with the characters your suppose to do it for.

[malhar34]

Darth Wraith wrote...

While the eavesdropping method may have its issues, it's vastly preferable to having to run up to people standing around with a giant exclamation marks above their heads. Talk about immersion-breaker.

u have to retarded to think thats what the discussion is about. We mean that the quest ITSELF sucks cause all you do is scan and go back and talk to him rather than a REAL quest where you actually do something

[Tallin Harperson]

Icinix wrote...

Darth Wraith wrote...

While the eavesdropping method may have its issues, it's vastly preferable to having to run up to people standing around with a giant exclamation marks above their heads. Talk about immersion-breaker.

I would happily take those exclamation marks if it meant more dialogue and an actual side mission with something new and different in it as opposed to "Oh, you're looking for pickled eyeballs? I just happened to find this random planet when I was flying the mako to benny hill music."

N7 missions? Tuchanka bomb? Grissom Academy? Rannoch side quests?

[Icinix]

Tallin Harperson wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Darth Wraith wrote...

While the eavesdropping method may have its issues, it's vastly preferable to having to run up to people standing around with a giant exclamation marks above their heads. Talk about immersion-breaker.

I would happily take those exclamation marks if it meant more dialogue and an actual side mission with something new and different in it as opposed to "Oh, you're looking for pickled eyeballs? I just happened to find this random planet when I was flying the mako to benny hill music."

N7 missions? Tuchanka bomb? Grissom Academy? Rannoch side quests?

I'm talking a more traditional RPG sidequest system - how many eavesdrop quests were there that were identical beyond a name change in the collection template? I would rather see similar to quests like the Consort, Bhatia or Dantius from ME1. Where they were a little more involved and could really sculpt who your player was as a person. In particular more quests that didn't require you to raise your gun.

Edit: The N7 missions feel more like padding integrated from MP, the others are more or less the main quest line. I'm talking about those missions you actively go out and find among the population of the galaxy. Missions that don't pop up on a dossier as part of your objectives but you actually have to talk to people to find.

Modifié par Icinix, 08 mai 2012 - 10:00 .

[Vormaerin]

brfritos wrote...

This way Bioware would have resources and time to actually create a mission where you land and rescue the Shadow Broker squad or Elcor survivors, wich enhance the game experience.

A couple dozen lines of non interactive conversation being cut doesn't equal the resources to create a mission.   You'd need more dialogue than that, plus you'd need the level designers, the cutscene makers, and lots more QA time.

[Vormaerin]

Icinix wrote...

I'm talking about those missions you actively go out and find among the population of the galaxy. Missions that don't pop up on a dossier as part of your objectives but you actually have to talk to people to find.

How many thousands die each time you spend a day doing that instead of saving the galaxy, Mr. Random-explorer-who-should-be-saving-the-galaxy?   That would be nearly as thematically stupid as the "Warden as mailman" quests of DAO.

[Icinix]

Vormaerin wrote...

Icinix wrote...

I'm talking about those missions you actively go out and find among the population of the galaxy. Missions that don't pop up on a dossier as part of your objectives but you actually have to talk to people to find.

How many thousands die each time you spend a day doing that instead of saving the galaxy, Mr. Random-explorer-who-should-be-saving-the-galaxy?   That would be nearly as thematically stupid as the "Warden as mailman" quests of DAO.

Please. I see this argument all the time.

How many people are dying in the galaxy when you shut the game down? How many people are dying when you're flying the Normandy around scanning random systems? How many people are dying when you're talking to your crew about their history and romances instead of saving the galaxy?  How many people are dying while you're helping EDI and Joker get jiggy in the bar on the Cidatel? Or if you chat up STEEEEEEEEEEVE in the bar as well?

Books and movies are designed to have only the interesting parts of what heroes and heroines are up too, they still have lots of things they do outside the exciting narrative. Side quests are just that, those little things on the side outside the really main and exciting parts that may or may not ultimately affect the story but give the player something different to do. In a game that you play for 30 hours you need those little diversions as a break within the game itself.

Next you'll be saying that the whole game should have a real time counter in the top left that slowly counts down until you lose everything, and all missions must be completed in a certain time frame.

[Tallin Harperson]

Icinix wrote...

I'm talking a more traditional RPG sidequest system - how many eavesdrop quests were there that were identical beyond a name change in the collection template? I would rather see similar to quests like the Consort, Bhatia or Dantius from ME1. Where they were a little more involved and could really sculpt who your player was as a person. In particular more quests that didn't require you to raise your gun.

Edit: The N7 missions feel more like padding integrated from MP, the others are more or less the main quest line. I'm talking about those missions you actively go out and find among the population of the galaxy. Missions that don't pop up on a dossier as part of your objectives but you actually have to talk to people to find.

Well, I'll admit there weren't many, but there were a few quests like this: Hanar Diplomat and Aria's quests (particularly the Blue Suns quest)... and the Wounded Batarian quest was about as involved as the Bhatia quest. Also, there was the Volus Ambassador mission, though that was gained by an email, so you don't actually have to talk to anyone to get it. I also don't really think you're being fair to the N7 missions, but I guess that's just personal opinion...

Edit: Also, the Batarian Codes quest...

Modifié par Tallin Harperson, 08 mai 2012 - 10:35 .

[Vormaerin]

Icinix wrote...

Next you'll be saying that the whole game should have a real time counter in the top left that slowly counts down until you lose everything, and all missions must be completed in a certain time frame.

The game would need to be redesigned for that to work, though its not intrinsically a bad idea.  We aren't playing a sandbox game.

One of the biggest plot holes in a lot of games is that you are on an urgent mission, but not one cares about how much you dawdle around.   Baldur's Gate 2 was the worst at his.  Your sister is being tortured by the evil bad guy, but you happily spend months traipsing about having random adventures for no reason other than that they are there.  In fact, if you go rescue her right away, you get screwed in a metagame sense.   Just like in ME2 if you go do the IFF mission too soon.

If they want to make an explorer game, make an explorer game.  If they want to tell and "Earth is burning, you must save her" story,  they damn well better make the game play support that.   "Let's wander around doing random stuff for the hell of it" is not supportive of that.

All the RP stuff is happening while you are travelling to do something useful.    The existing scanning stuff is borderline inappropriate, but at least most of it can result from following leads instead of going  "Oh, I wonder what's on Rigel VI.  Let's go find out."

[Atakuma]

It really wasn't necessary to have so many of them. I would have cut the amount in half and simply reallocated the war assets elsewhere.

[Mettyx]

Artemis_Entrari wrote...

You had access to the Spectre computer terminal. They could have simply put all those fetch quests as requests to the Spectre terminal, and thus when you read the terminal you got the quest.

It makes a lot more sense than Shepard acting like a creepy peeping tom.

Excellent idea, as usual players are more competent than actual company employees with a salary.

Modifié par Mettyx, 08 mai 2012 - 11:27 .

[Mettyx]

ChurchOfZod wrote...

The side quest system was rushed garbage. I think back to all the great ME2 missions like the blood pack base, the crashed ship that was about to fall off a mountain, not to mention the 20 or so recruitment/loyalty missions. ME3 has fallen so short of that in number and quality that you have to wonder why anyone at EA would think this title would garner anything but disappointment and hostility.

Yep, I was simply astonished how highly rated ME3 was by "pro" reviewers on big websites when it is so degraded in every way you can think of.

[blaidfiste]

Dragon Age 2's system was lazy
Pick up an eyeball
Journal updates
NPC missing an eye appears in lowtown.

At least in ME3 you get to hear someone talking about what they need.

[ZackG312]

These didnt even feel like a quest,

[tishyw]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Well... the alternative is having to talk to all the people with an exclamation mark floating over their heads - how exactly is that better?

It's better because you have to interact with the npc to get the quest.  I know it's less popular with FPS fans but  I actually like talking to the the npc's to get the quest.
In ME1 Emily Wong calls Shep over, has a discussion with her/him and then gives you the quest.  For me that's far more realistic and immersive than wandering around eaves dropping on people and then surprising them with the item/information afterwards.
I think that the evesdropping quests are just lazy development and wriiting to be honest.  A quick/cheap way to get more quests in.
But perhaps I'm in the minority.

[Sidney]

malhar34 wrote...

Darth Wraith wrote...

While the eavesdropping method may have its issues, it's vastly preferable to having to run up to people standing around with a giant exclamation marks above their heads. Talk about immersion-breaker.

u have to retarded to think thats what the discussion is about. We mean that the quest ITSELF sucks cause all you do is scan and go back and talk to him rather than a REAL quest where you actually do something

Like say the deliver notes to widows from DAO? Most RPG's have trash quests that are fetch or deliver things with not much "play" to them.

[Sidney]

Icinix wrote...
I'm talking a more traditional RPG sidequest system - how many eavesdrop quests were there that were identical beyond a name change in the collection template? I would rather see similar to quests like the Consort, Bhatia or Dantius from ME1. Where they were a little more involved and could really sculpt who your player was as a person. In particular more quests that didn't require you to raise your gun.

There were a ton of sidequests like the ones you mention - one per major planet, plus grissom for example. Those are the fleshed out things. The overheard stuff is like the stupid rock hunting and turian insigias from ME1.

[Father_Jerusalem]

It would be helpful if people accepted the fact that the eavesdropping "missions" weren't actually sidequests and were simply ME3's version of resource gathering.

As such, I vastly prefer them to ME2's planetary scanning and ME1's driving the Mako up yet another 90 degree mountain to try and find some stupid rocks.

[AlanC9]

brfritos wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
This strikes me as being similar to the reaction to, say, the companions' one-liner responses on the Normandy after missions. Sure, those would have been better if each was a full conversation, but that wasn't going to happen anyway.

People need to remember that the chief rival for a cheap implementation isn't a more expensive implementation; it's cutting the feature altogether. ME fans should be quite familiar with how that works.

But there are two types of eavesdropping quests in the game, one is the old fetch-quests we are all used to and the other is actually listening the whole conversation that occour several times, only then you have a result in the Spectre Terminal.
I've found the later really good because you have a story behind it, a reason for it and a consequence if you autorize or not the action in the Spectre Terminal.

Good point. I often forget to count the Spectre Terminal stuff as quests. Mostly because the wiki doesn't classify them that way, I guess. But they're just as quest-y as the other recovery missions.

But the first ones are not that different than the mineral scanning from ME2, so this begs the question of why wasting resources in all those dialogs, specially because even if you walk away the dialog still follows you and you still get the quest, even if you are on the other side of the Presidium.
Why actually not letting the player discovering the things for themselves, the Heating Unit Stabilizer used in the joke is a good example, because even if you avoid hearing the conversation or the NPC you will get the item when doing a certain N7 mission and the quest will appear in your hournal.

It works like that right now; doesn't everybody know this? You get the quest if you find the item even if you haven't heard the convo. Then your journal says that you need to find someone who can use the thing.

Which means that the convos that give you the quests are not necessary, yep. Should those one or two NPC lines have been diverted to other purposes? I thought they added interest to walking around the Ciradel.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 mai 2012 - 03:06 .

[AlanC9]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

It would be helpful if people accepted the fact that the eavesdropping "missions" weren't actually sidequests and were simply ME3's version of resource gathering.

In retrospect, it was a mistake for Bio to class them as "missions" in the journal. It causes players to bolt expectations onto them even if they don't fit. Should have had a separate category for recovered artifacts, etc. The info popups actually do this, but the journal doesn't.