69 réponses à ce sujet

[Gecon]

Statulos wrote...

My general perception in game terms is that warriors are the underdog on the 3 main classes (I will not count specializations) in terms of skills: while a mage can go for 64 spells plus the class skill and rogues can go for a nice set of class skill, warriors have quite moronic capacities compared to casting a storm of the century or a massive backstabbing damage. 

Err Warrior gets 2 talent trees and Rogue gets 2 talent trees. The other 2 talent trees for Rogue are actually skills (Locks and Stealth). So I utterly fail to see this advantage for Warrior.

The only way a Rogue can do the same raw damage as Warrior is if he completely screws up his Rogue by going for Str and Dex exclusively. But even then he cannot get Berserker spec.

The advantage of Mage is the FREEDOM they get with the 16 spelltrees (they cannot actually freely choose from 64 spells as you implied). While Rogue and Warrior are both forced to one out of 2 or 4 weaponstyles, all coming with 3 trees.

[Cuthlan]

Final Blow isn't broken. As can be seen in my profile, I've hit in the 260's with it repeatedly, and that is before the Landsmeet. And my warrior isn't min-maxed (400+ hitpoints and stamina with equipment).



And Final Blow really doesn't take away all your stamina leaving you useless... with Death Blow and regen items/bardsong/rejuvenation, my stamina is back up and kicking right away. My only issue with it is that it drops Indomitable which has a fairly long timer to restart. With that in mind, I've been going into fights without Indomitable up, dropping Final Blow right away, then putting up Indomitable and continuing on business-as-usual.

[Gecon]

Statulos wrote...

Most of the warrior talents are basicaly useless crap compared to lethality. Damn, even the specializations are crappy. Reaver is like slow suicide for no clear advantage and the bonus from champion are close to nothing.

WTF are you talking about.

Lethality allows the Rogue to increase his efficiency as a combatant without screwing up his Rogue.

But Warrior doesnt need Cun at all in the first place, so giving Warrior the Lethality talent would be nothing short ridiculous. Warrior needs to skill Str, which gives him both Damage AND 1/2 attack. While Cun, even with Lethality, only gives Damage.

[beserker7]

Cuthlan wrote...

Final Blow isn't broken. As can be seen in my profile, I've hit in the 260's with it repeatedly, and that is before the Landsmeet. And my warrior isn't min-maxed (400+ hitpoints and stamina with equipment).

And Final Blow really doesn't take away all your stamina leaving you useless... with Death Blow and regen items/bardsong/rejuvenation, my stamina is back up and kicking right away. My only issue with it is that it drops Indomitable which has a fairly long timer to restart. With that in mind, I've been going into fights without Indomitable up, dropping Final Blow right away, then putting up Indomitable and continuing on business-as-usual.

Well, I have to disagree. With 120-130 damage(beserker,blood thirst stacked), 230's attack with perfect striking, and still 230 left of stamina(I have warden's commander armour with executioner helm), I should be doing at least 300-400 damage with final blow, I can't. It rarely goes into the 200's and usually is like 170-190's. I'm glad you got over 250 with warrior, it's not totally immpossible, but yes, when it does not calculate and add your actual remaining stamina into the stike, it's broke. It seems to add a random amount of extra damage, as oppossed to the actual number of stamina you have left. Many others have stated the same problem.

Even on my current playthrough at level 14, I have 114 damage, 228 attack with perfect striking, and 130 stamina left. I'm still only dealing 150-190's with Final Blow. It should be 230's-300's, if it worked, like it stated it did in the talent description. Numbers don't lie.

[Timortis]

The talent doesn't say "it adds all your remaining stamina to your damage", it says "extra damage proportional to the amount of stamina lost". The additional damage is actually 50% of stamina lost.



Besides, the damage on your character sheet is normalized to your attack speed, so it's not always exactly how much you hit for, if you've paid attention, it will increase when hasted, which doesn't mean you hit harder when hasted, same with bloodthirst.

[Cuthlan]

Timortis wrote...

The talent doesn't say "it adds all your remaining stamina to your damage", it says "extra damage proportional to the amount of stamina lost". The additional damage is actually 50% of stamina lost.

This. It isn't how much stamina you have left, it's proportional to the amount of stamina you have left.

[beserker7]

[quote]Cuthlan wrote...

[quote]Timortis wrote...

The talent doesn't say "it adds all your remaining stamina to your damage", it says "extra damage proportional to the amount of stamina lost". The additional damage is actually 50% of stamina lost.

[/quote]

This. It isn't how much stamina you have left, it's proportional to the amount of stamina you have left.

/quote]


Nice catch-thanks guys, it does say that, proportional, however, like many of the talent descriptions, It gives no proportion or numbers. Many others have stated how nice it would be in the future to give us the raw numbers in the description. A simple 25%-50% of remaining stamina remaining. I don't know how you guys know its 50%?, but shouldn't with 230 stamina left , that's115, with my attack at 120-130's, I still shouldn't be getting less than 200 on any final blow and I'm getting mostly 170-190's. I know armor,swing speed ,ect, but my mighty blow was doing 120-160's, so....It's buggy at best. Now explain to me what the Reaver talent blood frenzy actually does to your damage, cause the damage/attack stats don't go up as health decreases.

I think, at least, many would agree it should have added ALL your stamina into the blow or at least said 50%. I now hate the word proportional, as it applies to Dragon Age. 

[Cuthlan]

I'm not sure what is causing your variations in final blow damage... It's very consistent for me. If I open up with it I get pretty much the same hits every time.



I haven't actually paid attention... if a monster is down to say 150 hitpoints, and you hit for what would have been 250 damage, does it display that you hit for 250? Or 150? I wonder if that is the issue.

[beserker7]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Dear OP,
Please stop sucking.

Sincerely yours,
Everyone

You speak for Everyone? Sorry dude, but no game is perfect and I do love this game. Listening to both postive and negative posting/feedback from customers will lead to a better game for everyone in the future. It also means more loyalty/success for Bioware and other developers who pay attention(cause we do). 


 

[beserker7]

Cuthlan wrote...

I'm not sure what is causing your variations in final blow damage... It's very consistent for me. If I open up with it I get pretty much the same hits every time.

I haven't actually paid attention... if a monster is down to say 150 hitpoints, and you hit for what would have been 250 damage, does it display that you hit for 250? Or 150? I wonder if that is the issue.

It is THE VARIATION IN DAMAGE, that's frustrating me, I've tried almost every way to get it with companion party talents like assassin, poison etc. Pulling of 170-190's all the time with an rare occasional 212, 227, 236, tells me something ain't right. 

I'm glad to know yours is pretty consistent. I noted my talents de-activating, then staying on all the time-like they should, and the talent icon disappearing at times. There is def some bugs in my copy. Maybe a patch for PS3 will help?

[Timortis]

beserker7 wrote...

I know armor,swing speed ,ect, but my mighty blow was doing 120-160's 

I do agree with you that the ability should do more damage, considering its cooldown and significant stamina cost, especially when you compare it to Arrow of Slaying, however that doesn't mean it's bugged.

Mighty Blow doing 120-160 doesn't mean anything, because Mighty Blow is always a crit, but I've never seen Final Blow crit myself, I don't even know if it does. 2H Warriors have abysmally low crit rates unfortunately, so it's hard for me to know if it's not critting because of my crit rate, or because it's programmed to never crit.

[Timortis]

By the way, it seems to do pretty consistent damage for me too. In my current gear at level 20, it's in the 260-270 range. Highest I got was 272.

[Statulos]

Gecon wrote...

Statulos wrote...

My general perception in game terms is that warriors are the underdog on the 3 main classes (I will not count specializations) in terms of skills: while a mage can go for 64 spells plus the class skill and rogues can go for a nice set of class skill, warriors have quite moronic capacities compared to casting a storm of the century or a massive backstabbing damage. 

Err Warrior gets 2 talent trees and Rogue gets 2 talent trees. The other 2 talent trees for Rogue are actually skills (Locks and Stealth). So I utterly fail to see this advantage for Warrior.

The only way a Rogue can do the same raw damage as Warrior is if he completely screws up his Rogue by going for Str and Dex exclusively. But even then he cannot get Berserker spec.

The advantage of Mage is the FREEDOM they get with the 16 spelltrees (they cannot actually freely choose from 64 spells as you implied). While Rogue and Warrior are both forced to one out of 2 or 4 weaponstyles, all coming with 3 trees.

2 talent trees that are good for nothing compared to talents such as lethality.

[beserker7]

Timortis wrote...

By the way, it seems to do pretty consistent damage for me too. In my current gear at level 20, it's in the 260-270 range. Highest I got was 272.

Okay, Now I'm getting a tad jealous. No,.. happy it works for some of you guys and is consisently doing what it should. I'm going to keep on trying to get the 250. I've got 246,.... once. Maybe the developers just want me to keep playing?

Also, about your final blow and critical comments, shouldn't Final Blow have been an automatic critical attack? Maybe it should be called, not quite final blow. Your so right about 2 handed hardly ever critically hitting. I just found the stat for it last night. Right now at level 14, 2 handed Starfang, and Superior Dragonskin Heavy Armor and my chance is 5%. I found that when I stack Blood Thirst talent from Warden's keep my critical chance goes to 15%, so I'm definitly using it almost all the time now, at least initially. I'm just telling myself it's the Reaver final talent Blood Frenzy, cause that talent doesn't do anything. Maybe that's why they added it, who knows?

Off to get my 250 Heavy Hitter achievement with warrior. Will update this thread topic with stats and details, when and if it happens.  

  

Modifié par beserker7, 12 décembre 2009 - 12:15 .

[beserker7]

UPDATE

YES!, I finally did it!, and found what I think is the key to getting the heavy hitter achievement/trophy with a 2H warrior, cause I'm doing over 250 alot now. Level 17 in the Brecillian Forest after doing all other main quests. Werewolf was my first target, I did 256. Right after I did 289 on the great bear, 278 on Ogre, 272 on Sylvan tree, 290 on another great bear, and believe it or not 331 on the grand oak boss!

The most important things in common for all these was having Assassin talent engaged on my enemy from Rogue companion, as well as, Vulnerability Hex from Mage. I was only getting 208-240 without these on target.

The essential talents I had engaged for my 2 handed sword warrior were Beserker and Blood Thirst(warden's keep). Perfect striking doesn't seem to help, so I learned I really don't need to invest in it.  Just as important is having Warden Commander armour(warden's keep dlc) with Executioner Helm(you can get from Cesar's special stock in Denerim, after you do all the Crows quests but don't kill Master Ignacio after, or Cesar dissappears from the market). This is the best Stamina gear in the game. My belt was Andruil's Blessing(from Mage quartermaster) with Harvest Festival Ring(stone prisoner/honnleath) and Key to the City(Orzammar) ring. I was using Starfang 2 hander.

Had spend all but like 3 points in strength, had bought both talent books, and got all fade stat increases from mage tower quest. My stats were STR 83, DEX 24, WIL 25, MAG 16, CUN 21, CON 23, was Beserker and Champion.   

So, stack Beserker, Blood Thirst, then have Rogue engage Assasin Mark, then Mage engage Vulnerability Hex, then immediately engage Final Blow on target. It worked all but 3 times I've tries it so far. The last key to getting it, I think, is the fact that I was facing enemies with less defense/armour. As I stated, I was using almost the same set up at the end of my last playthrough and only did 246 once, but it was in the Alienage and Final Battle against more heavly armour/defense foes and I didn't have both Assassin and Hex on target, often.

Feel alot better now and hopefully this will help someone who's having alot of trouble getting it, like I did,- with 2 handed warrior. I have put over 200 hours into the game and this was my 3rd  full two handed warrior playthrough.

Thanks so much to Bioware for giving us another- TOP RPG EVER quality of game, that we'll be playing right up until the sequel. This game is even better than when Jade Empire came out and has rivaled the experience and awe I had with playing KOTOR!

[Vansen Elamber]

Gecon wrote...

Statulos wrote...

My general perception in game terms is that warriors are the underdog on the 3 main classes (I will not count specializations) in terms of skills: while a mage can go for 64 spells plus the class skill and rogues can go for a nice set of class skill, warriors have quite moronic capacities compared to casting a storm of the century or a massive backstabbing damage. 

Err Warrior gets 2 talent trees and Rogue gets 2 talent trees. The other 2 talent trees for Rogue are actually skills (Locks and Stealth). So I utterly fail to see this advantage for Warrior.

The only way a Rogue can do the same raw damage as Warrior is if he completely screws up his Rogue by going for Str and Dex exclusively. But even then he cannot get Berserker spec.

The advantage of Mage is the FREEDOM they get with the 16 spelltrees (they cannot actually freely choose from 64 spells as you implied). While Rogue and Warrior are both forced to one out of 2 or 4 weaponstyles, all coming with 3 trees.

Personally I don't think the rogue would be completely screwed up as long as thats the way you planned to spec it. You could run with a character like that and then have Leliana or Zeveran do the lock stuff for you or download that mod that lets mages learn a line that has unlock spells. And really the locked chests are a joke for the most part there is not one thing in them that you need, in fact I would say you could skip every locked chest in the game and not miss a thing. The only thing thats useful is disarming traps, that can save you a lot of problems especially for them pesky random travel encounters with trip wire traps all over the place.

Modifié par Vansen Elamber, 12 décembre 2009 - 09:32 .

[Seifz]

I played a 2H Warrior first and the best that I could do with Final Blow was 245 damage at level 23 on a target with armor debuffs and full stamina (minus the stamina needed for Beserking and Powerful Swings). My strength was about 80 with gear, my willpower higher than 35, and I had Starfang and the Wade's Superior Heavy Dragonscale set. It's just really hard on a 2H Warrior!



On my second playthrough, I made an Archer. She got Arrow of Slaying at level 6 and I got a 250-damage kill shot on her first attempt.

[Darth_Shizz]

beserker7 wrote...
Even on my current playthrough at level 14, I have 114 damage, 228 attack with perfect striking, and 130 stamina left. I'm still only dealing 150-190's with Final Blow. It should be 230's-300's, if it worked, like it stated it did in the talent description. Numbers don't lie.

They don't lie, though your interpretation of them is confused. For one, that "114 damage" is actually a breakdown of your average over x amount of time (I'd imagine it's a second...as most tend to be ). For all intents and purposes, you'll be hitting harder per swing. You also keep mentioning your attack rating as if it actually has any bearing on your final blow damage...it doesn't, assuming you hit. And no, it shouldn't be dealing damage near to 300 unless you're heavily buffed and attacking an unarmoured enemy. If it were possible to do the amount of damage you seem to want to do with final blow (350+ consistently), then it'd be pretty overpowered, especially when you bear in mind talents such as death blow, on top of the amount of stamina gear/+stamina AND stamina regen spells we have access to.

[Darth_Shizz]

Kanner wrote...

At least you don't have to PvP on a DA:O warrior. THAT would be dire. =/

I doubt it, considering you can get over 70% hostile spell immunity as a warrior pretty easily, 100% if you want to use runes. On top of insane mental resistance between gear and templar spec. Add indomitable and massive armour to the mix, and you have yourself a character that makes life very tough for mages and rogues, no?

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 12 décembre 2009 - 10:43 .

[beserker7]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

beserker7 wrote...
Even on my current playthrough at level 14, I have 114 damage, 228 attack with perfect striking, and 130 stamina left. I'm still only dealing 150-190's with Final Blow. It should be 230's-300's, if it worked, like it stated it did in the talent description. Numbers don't lie.

They don't lie, though your interpretation of them is confused. For one, that "114 damage" is actually a breakdown of your average over x amount of time (I'd imagine it's a second...as most tend to be ). For all intents and purposes, you'll be hitting harder per swing. You also keep mentioning your attack rating as if it actually has any bearing on your final blow damage...it doesn't, assuming you hit. And no, it shouldn't be dealing damage near to 300 unless you're heavily buffed and attacking an unarmoured enemy. If it were possible to do the amount of damage you seem to want to do with final blow (350+ consistently), then it'd be pretty overpowered, especially when you bear in mind talents such as death blow, on top of the amount of stamina gear/+stamina AND stamina regen spells we have access to.

Hey Snizz,


Read about 4 posts up dude, in my UPDATE POST, I finally got it over 250 and did do a 331 damage. I have learned that attack doesn't mean too much, since I did it without perfect striking. I would argue that since most normal enemies at higher levels take at least 300 hit to beat, with elites and bosses being way more, that wanting your beserker Final Blow to average 350-450 is a pretty reasonable request. I would have liked that same from Templar and Reaver final talents.

Since I did a 331 with final blow(see above post), I consider Bioware to have delievered on that already, although, I still think your individual PC warrior should be able to achieve it without using Assassin and Hex talents on targets from companions, to do so. 

Modifié par beserker7, 13 décembre 2009 - 12:43 .