157 réponses à ce sujet

[Gogzilla]

I feel sad that you think ME3 had a hardcore Sci-Fi ending
I like hardcore sci-fi and this is not it.

Mass effect pulls from all sorts of sci-fi , it presents a mishmash which is not star trek not star wars and not babylon 5 but close to all three.

The ending tried to be Deus Ex all of a sudden without any of the requisite build up or focus on the ideas in question.

without speculation

Can you tell me how any of the characters in the game feel about any of the endings ?

Can you at least tell me what their disposition was to any of the endings?

Do you have any idea how you choices have impacted the galaxy at all ?

I don't think you can because they don't come up anywhere in the games till the end.

What does the ending even tell you ?

In Me1 and Me2 don't have this problem.
They spend the entire game giving you perspective and subjective reasons to pick one choice or the other.

I mean what does the ending ultimately mean , its not up to the viewer none of whats happening come up anytime before the ending.

Hard Sci-fi have powerful endings that usually show meaning , add perspective or at the very least make you ask questions you never considered before. They challenge ideas and place the onus on the viewer to think about them.

What exactly does the ME3 ending make you think about ?

[Eclipse merc]

meatsack wrote...

loungeshep wrote...

I'll be honest, the only thing I hate about the ending is the Guardians explanation for why they reap. Sovereign, Harbinger, and Rannoch Reaper did a far better job and I'm totally fine with ignoring the Guardian's explanation and just sticking with ' we bring order to chaos' it's a good, classic theme.

Now the rest, all I really want is clarification and I'm happy.

The game IS awesome though, and BSN needs more of these threads about the positive aspects of Mass Effect 3.

Agreed.  And I thing 99% of everyone who's played would agree that the game as a whole was a fantastic emotional experience.

I think the big issue is a lot of people already had a pre-concieved idea of how the game was going to end, and/or the lack of a variety of endings people expected.

We, as game players need to realize however, that Mass Effect is Bioware's sandbox, we're just allowed to play in it.  Bioware had a clear idea of how they indended to end the series. 

EDIT:  fix my typos

Head deep in plot holes is how they wanted it to end?

I'm not trying to troll you or anything and i'm glad you enjoyed the game.

[jeff359]

slyguy200 wrote...

Cool story bro.
I disagree with almost all of it.
The game was sloppy, lazily made, and had a terrible ending that didn't fit the series with very little variation and made most of the chioces over the course of the trilogy effectively irrelevant. 
Also, your idea obout the ending being hardcore sci-fi is wrong, it was more like outright fantasy with all that space magic and all.

Agreed 

[Tazzmission]

Gogzilla wrote...

I feel sad that you think ME3 had a hardcore Sci-Fi ending
I like hardcore sci-fi and this is not it.

Mass effect pulls from all sorts of sci-fi , it presents a mishmash which is not star trek not star wars and not babylon 5 but close to all three.

The ending tried to be Deus Ex all of a sudden without any of the requisite build up or focus on the ideas in question.

without speculation

Can you tell me how any of the characters in the game feel about any of the endings ?

Can you at least tell me what their disposition was to any of the endings?

Do you have any idea how you choices have impacted the galaxy at all ?

I don't think you can because they don't come up anywhere in the games till the end.

What does the ending even tell you ?

In Me1 and Me2 don't have this problem.
They spend the entire game giving you perspective and subjective reasons to pick one choice or the other.

I mean what does the ending ultimately mean , its not up to the viewer none of whats happening come up anytime before the ending.

Hard Sci-fi have powerful endings that usually show meaning , add perspective or at the very least make you ask questions you never considered before. They challenge ideas and place the onus on the viewer to think about them.

What exactly does the ME3 ending make you think about ?

what i find sad is people who basicly hijack a possitive thread to continue the quest of finding answers for themsevles after trashing the op and the game itself

if the guy like sit so fn what? he or she dosent answer to you so quit trying to get an answer out of op because no matter what he or she says your gona tell op there wrong

its been 3 months people seriously get over it and man up allready

and if you people still have this ideology that bioware screws fans then leave the boards 

its just a game people and seriously games are meant to be fun and it looks like alot of people have forgotten that

Modifié par Tazzmission, 08 mai 2012 - 04:37 .

[PillarBiter]

As much as i dislike the ending, I do want to agree with the OP on one point.

I never expected a 'humanity wins' scenario per se. But I do believe there shoudl be a variety of endings, and not all the same.

[oblique9]

You bring up a good point that I haven't heard before on these forums, OP - that the feelings on the ending depend largely on what you felt the series was all about. It seems many of us including myself felt the series was about benig the galaxies hero, and having the outcome depend on how good or bad you were, where if you were really good, you'd get a really happy ending.

I'm glad you liked it though. I do envy you.

[Tallin Harperson]

Resse wrote...

OP I have serious questions.

What exactly do you like about the ending?

In addition please answer the following:
1. What happened to your crew and why were they in a certain spot when they were supposed to be at your side?
2. Why did a certain ship leave the battle and abandons you when you need them most?
3. What do you think about the character introduced in the very last second and it's comments?
4. What color did you pick and why and what did you think at that moment?
5. Did you feel like your choices mattered?

I could ask you so many more questions, but please answer at least these few.

I'm happy that you're happy with the ending you got, but I want to understand how you can actually be happy with it.

I'm not the OP, but I'll answer them:

1. Funny thing is, when I played, the only people who stepped out were EDI and Joker. I had Liara and Garrus with me on the final mission and a super high EMS (7700 or so, 100% Galactic Readiness). I did romance Miranda, though, so that might have been why.
2. I figured it was running from a big explosion after confirmation was received that there was no one else to go back for, but I'll be interested to see what explanation they give in EC.
3. Interesting. Lots of exposition to set things up for a final choice. I don't see why so many people think it didn't made sense for him to sit on the sidelines when its obvious his solution requires that it work on its own without his interference. If you create something to do something you expect it to do it. If it can't do what it is designed for, then it is defective and needs to be repaired or you need to find another solution.
4. Green. I might go back and try blue, but red didn't really fit my Shep at all. Red will most likely be what my second Shep will choose, though.
5. Yup. They got me where I needed to be and left the galaxy the way I wanted it: "Everyone lives, Rose!" Okay, not quite, but I know all the races are still out there, and that I've left them a universe in which they can come together and find common ground. I've left them a legacy of peace and cooperation and giving up everything to see things right. I gave them an understanding of something foreign to them without changing who they are.

[meatsack]

Gogzilla wrote...

I feel sad that you think ME3 had a hardcore Sci-Fi ending
I like hardcore sci-fi and this is not it.

I feel sad you don't think the ending was good Sci-fi and did not like it.

Mass effect pulls from all sorts of sci-fi , it presents a mishmash which is not star trek not star wars and not babylon 5 but close to all three.

And this is a bad thing.  They may not have nailed it 100% but pulling the best of what made these series great and incorporating them into Mass Effect is, IMHO a good idea. 

Can you clarify, did you dislike the game as a whole or just the ending. 

The ending tried to be Deus Ex all of a sudden without any of the requisite build up or focus on the ideas in question.

I've never played Deus Ex so the reference is lost on me.

Can you tell me how any of the characters in the game feel about any of the endings ?

Can you at least tell me what their disposition was to any of the endings?

Do you have any idea how you choices have impacted the galaxy at all ?

As I said in my origional post, I still do have quesions, the ones you've raised here being some of them.  It is my hope Bioware can address them all in the EC DLC.

In Me1 and Me2 don't have this problem.
They spend the entire game giving you perspective and subjective reasons to pick one choice or the other.

And your saying that is not the case with ME3?   I was presented with many choices, which resulted in who lived and who died, the future of entire races being decided by my choice, who was with me in the final push etc etc  ( can't be more specific without crossing the spoiler boundry )

I mean what does the ending ultimately mean , its not up to the viewer none of whats happening come up anytime before the ending.

And when it really boils down to it, isn't that the issue.  People had a pre-concieved idea of how the series was to end.  But Bioware decided to take it in a direction of their choosing ( their reason is anyones guess at this point ). 
Is it right for all the crap they've taken because of it.  Mass Effect is their story, should they not end it on their terms?

Hard Sci-fi have powerful endings that usually show meaning , add perspective or at the very least make you ask questions you never considered before. They challenge ideas and place the onus on the viewer to think about them.

And for me that is what it did.   For example, everyone saw the reapers as the greatest destructive evil the galaxy faced.  But in those last few minutes, we get a new perspective . . . we see them in a new light.   A "good of the many outweighs the good of the few or the one" scenerio.   What if . . . . ??

[meatsack]

slyguy200 wrote...

meatsack wrote...

...
Thats the thing about life.  Sometimes no matter what you choose, you get results you may not want, or could have expected.  Reflecting back on all 3 games, I don't see what choices were made that could have changed the outcome.  And as I mentioned before, Bioware had reasons to end the trilogy this way ( I won't guess on why as I don't have the facts . . . would have loved to have been a fly on the wall however )

...

Your life must suck man, as it must with everyone who uses that excuse. The right choices are important in life, if you choose them then things turn out pretty well. True that they may not always work out, but they still have enough impact to make things better rather than make things get worse. The end was designed specifically to eliminate the choioces that you made in precisely that way. They should have ended the way they ended the last game, with real variation and chances of both success and failure, not this ****ty middle ground. 

I take it you don't believe in the " no win " scenerio??

[meatsack]

oblique9 wrote...

You bring up a good point that I haven't heard before on these forums, OP - that the feelings on the ending depend largely on what you felt the series was all about. It seems many of us including myself felt the series was about benig the galaxies hero, and having the outcome depend on how good or bad you were, where if you were really good, you'd get a really happy ending.

I'm glad you liked it though. I do envy you.

Thanks, I really hope the EC DLC allows you to enjoy it as much as I did.

[JackRipper10]

There are actually alot of really good games coming out this year that havent came out yet... I wouldnt go and say that ME3 is definate game of the year.

[Stevebo]

meatsack wrote...


So I just finished my first play
through of ME3 last night ( I know, 2 months seems like a long time
but with 2 kids under 6 time is a rare commodity for me )
I first want to say the ME3 in IMHO the
best game of the 3 . . . fantastic story, emotionally engaging ( yes
I teared up a few times, here is my man card, take it ) and great
game play( on a pc, I found the cover system much improved over ME2).
Definite game of the year for 2012 if not the last 5 years.


Now that being said, its time to
address the elephant in the room . . . the ending.

I thought the ending was brillant. Now
before you start shouting "Troll" at me . . . let me
explain.

I think it really boils down to how you
viewed the game ... Mass Effect, to me, has at its core always been a
Sci-fi epic. Although the primary theme through the trilogy has been
focused on the threat of the Reapers, the core sci-fi elements have
always been carried along through all 3 games . . .Who are the
reapers, who built them, why do they repeat this 50,000 year cycle of
destruction, and what does it all mean for the future of humanity.

The Mass Effect trilogy, in my view,
was never destined to be wrapped up in a "we win, and everyone
lives happily ever after " final.

So the ending, to me, was a hard core
Sci-fi ending . . . and I am very happy with it.
Now that being said, I do think some
complaints are valid. Their are some questions that still need to be
answered and some plot holes explained so I hope the Extended cut
fills in the gaps. I can't mention said questions or wished for
clarifications because I promised this post to be spoiler free.

My hats off to you Bioware for a hell
of a game. Starting on my second playthrough this weekend.

Which color did you choose and what was your speculation on what it all meant and how it fit in the series?  It's so fun to speculate, thank god bioware didn't make the ending all "video gamey" and left it open to lots of speculation.

I do agree though, the game as a whole was great. (at least to me)

[Traestus]

The ending tried to be Deus Ex all of a sudden without any of the requisite build up or focus on the ideas in question.

I've never played Deus Ex so the reference is lost on me.


Just to give this clarification, the ending to Deus Ex presents you with three choices

A) Destroy the world communication super hub/AI Helios and plunge the world into a technological dark age

Ally yourself with the Illuminati who you've been working against the whole game to control Helios and control the world from the shadows forever

C) Merge yourself with Helios bringing the world into a new age mixing synthetic ai and humans

Note this game was released in 2000-2001

[meatsack]

JackRipper10 wrote...

There are actually alot of really good games coming out this year that havent came out yet... I wouldnt go and say that ME3 is definate game of the year.

True.

Will have to wait and see how the cards fall.

[meatsack]

Traestus wrote...

The ending tried to be Deus Ex all of a sudden without any of the requisite build up or focus on the ideas in question.

I've never played Deus Ex so the reference is lost on me.


Just to give this clarification, the ending to Deus Ex presents you with three choices

A) Destroy the world communication super hub/AI Helios and plunge the world into a technological dark age

Ally yourself with the Illuminati who you've been working against the whole game to control Helios and control the world from the shadows forever

C) Merge yourself with Helios bringing the world into a new age mixing synthetic ai and humans

Note this game was released in 2000-2001

So same theme, just different players.  How did people react to the end of Deus Ex? 

EDIT:  Wow, my typing skills totally failed on this post.  FIXED

Modifié par meatsack, 08 mai 2012 - 06:03 .

[AlanC9]

Wow... that does sound kinda familiar.

[JBONE27]

OP I completely disagree with you.

1. There are very few, if any people complaining about the ending being not being a "Yay, we won thing."
2. The ending doesn't mesh with the themes that have been drilled into our heads since the first game (strength through diversity and overcoming impossible odds).
3. Deus ex machina (which is what the Catalyst is) is the most lazy writing technique ever conceived.
4. It is not a "Hardcore Sci-Fi" ending. Read Asimov, Vern, or Clarke, or watch "Blade Runner," "Metropolis," or "Serenity," if you want to see what a real "Hardcore Sci-Fi," ending is like. What we have is a very soft science fantasy ending involving unexplained space magic and a deus ex machina (I know DEM is typically not explained, but when nearly everything else in the game is explained in immense detail by the codex, it doesn't fit.)
5. There are massive amounts of plot holes.
6. There is no closure.
7. It ends with an advertisement to buy DLC.
8. Nothing you've done over the course of the trilogy matters.
9. The grandfather/uncle/father/creepy neighbor telling his granddaughter/niece/daughter/little girl he kidnapped that it was all just a story is a figurative slap in the face to anyone with the slightest bit of investment in the series.
10. It was just one ending in three colors. To paraphrase the Serenity RPG guide, it comes in difference colors, but it all tastes like crap.

[Klijpope]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I've noticed that everyone who likes the ending seems to pick green and those who don't seem to pick red. Just a random observation.

There seems to a lot of moral outrage about synthesis too. Many red-siders seem to express this frequently.

There's a fair bit at work in this dislike of the ending malarky, more threads than just inadequate presentation and 'broken promises'.

[Traestus]

So same theme, just different players.  How did people react to the end of Deus Ex? 

EDIT:  Wow, my typing skills totally failed on this post.  FIXED

Generally people reacted to it pretty well, but the whole game really built up to this moment and the ramifications of your actions were much better explained (or to make a more trolly statment they actually bothered to explain them rather then showing nothing).

Also the choice at the end of Deus ex in regards to merging only effected the player character and not the entire galaxy which is a very very large difference

Modifié par Traestus, 08 mai 2012 - 06:33 .

[Link Ashland 614]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I've noticed that everyone who likes the ending seems to pick green and those who don't seem to pick red. Just a random observation.

I picked "red" with first super-Paragon Shepard. And yes, I am an endings lover 

It's still nice to see not everyone has to follow and remember all the negative and actually concentrate on the positive. Kudos OP