157 réponses à ce sujet

[Alibenbaba]

meatsack wrote...
I feel sad you don't think the ending was good Sci-fi and did not like it.

HARD sci-fi. This is a defined term, meaning that a story will not arbitrarily invent technology impossible under the law of physics. ME tried to take most things accurate, with the exception of the Mass Effect field, that basically is a plot device to allow FTL, shields, and starships with decks oriented in parallel to the direction of acceleration.

So, I'd say ME is more related to Star Trek than hard sci-fi. Thats but terminology but one thing still stands: In ME1 they TRIED to explain everything with the mass effect field. They did not invent unnecessary extension to the laws of physics but sticked to the one exception.

I feel this original notion is violated with all three endings, as the massive colored outburst is magical and an energy burst of such proportions will not leave anything alive at all if it wasn't magic. I hope that doesn't spoil...

As I said in my origional post, I still do have quesions, the ones you've raised here being some of them.  It is my hope Bioware can address them all in the EC DLC.

Would you please answer the original question from the experience gained from the current ending - there is no EC DLC, maybe there will be at some time but you can not judge the story now by what might come in the future!

As far as I can see from the material provided, the ending is completly unrelated to the rest of the mass effect trilogy. If it wasn't for the character of Shepard, you could put this ending on any of the Star Wars movies and have the same sense of continuity and closure you get from putting it on ME3.

And your saying that is not the case with ME3?   I was presented with many choices, which resulted in who lived and who died, the future of entire races being decided by my choice, who was with me in the final push etc etc  ( can't be more specific without crossing the spoiler boundry )

You are presented with choices throughout the game, but the ultimate choice at the end basically invalidates everything you might have learned about the state of the galaxy up until then. The new galaxy is never explained at all. That is not a speculative ending, but omission. 

And for me that is what it did.   For example, everyone saw the reapers as the greatest destructive evil the galaxy faced.  But in those last few minutes, we get a new perspective . . . we see them in a new light.   A "good of the many outweighs the good of the few or the one" scenerio.   What if . . . . ??

We see the ultimate evil in the galaxy reduced to the plaything of one controlling entity. It makes the ending so cheesy it's no wonder it's hard to grasp.

[pmac_tk421]

I agree with everything the OP said.

Modifié par pmac_tk421, 08 mai 2012 - 07:01 .

[jeweledleah]

meatsack wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

you lost me at core sci-fi elements.
epic loss was never a core element of sci-fi. making things scientifically plausible all the while keeping them in "what if" territory was.

And you don't think the "what if" component was clearly expressed in the end.  The precieved idea of the Reapers is they were evil through the series.  But "what if" they are not evil, but a means of prevening the destruction of all life in the galaxy?  Thats how I took it . . .

I get why people may enjoy the ending on symbolic level, or emotional level, but the one level it doesn't work on? is sci-fi.

Well when you compare it against other sci-fi media, I think it holds up.  Look at 2001:A space oddessy.  In the end HAL was considered "evil", but then in the sequal we learn he wasn't evil, it was mans attemps to make HAL lie ( a human trait that comes easy )which caused him to act the way he did.    (ok, so not a great example but I hope you see the direction I'm taking here . . . )

and considering that first 2 games ended on uplifting: "we win and live to fight another day" note? I'm honestly not sure where people are getting the whole "it could never end in anything but tragedy" idea. tragedy should have been a possibility, seeing as the game is all about choices and forging your own path. it shouldn't have been the only possible path.

I do see your point here.  However, as I mentioned in my first post, this is Bioware's sandbox, we're just allowed to play in it.   I suspect the ended the series this for some new game planned down the road.

"what if" component is kept.  its the plausibility and coherence, that's lost. 

Space Odissey is a different sort of sci-fi.  sci-fi pretty much takes back seat to philosophy there.Mass Effect was supposed to be more like Honor Harrington novels, or Star Trek, the games were a bit of a different genre.  Plus "what if everything we did through 3 games was pointless and we were completely wrong and there's no way to make things better, only to reset them" is NOT a good question to ask after 100 hours of gameplay and emotional investment. especialy when you don't even really tell the player what happened afterwards, leaving them with the worst sort of speculations.

and yes.  its bioware's sandbox.  one that we pay for acess to.  building expectations (and yes, they did build them, with previous games, with PR statements, developer promises) only to break them doesn't build confidence in your customer base.

i may sound very bitter ( and to a point I still am)  but for the most part, I've come to terms with my disapointment.  but coming to terms merely means that i'm no longer as invested into bioware as a company or their future product, not that I suddenly learned to like what we were given.  on the contrary.  I just decided to discard what I don't like and write  (or read - plenty of good fanfiction out there, as strange as it sounds) my own story.  I don't need to buy any more stuff or learn to like it, to write my own.

[AlexPorto111]

meatsack,i agree with you on almost everything.I do think ME3 is the best of the trilogy(easily),but the ending is not brilliant,but is not the worst thing ever made in the universe neither,is an ok ending.I am waiting the EC and hopefully,it will be fixed.

[ME 3]

@meatsack
A deus ex machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.
It's latin and its the reason the ending is complete rubbish

[johnj1979]

To me ME3 is way way off the standard of the other games and I not just meaning the ending. To me the whole game just didn't feel like that it was part of the Shepard story.

[Grimwick]

ME3 is certainly not the best of the trilogy... by literally miles.
It's a good game, but not a great game. It's out of it's predecessor's league.

OP, I disagree with a lot of what you said. The ending is wrong on so many levels from logistics to logic, and from narrative to thematics it just contradicts itself and the rest of the game until you are left with a punch in the face.
Also, just because you are happy with an emo-nihilistic approach to sci fi in no way means that Shepard HAS to have died in all circumstances... nothing really justifies the death of the protagonist in ME3. The game needed for there to be some happy-ish ending be it bittersweet, as well as a sad ending. instead we just got bitterly sad and a kick in the quad.

I don't believe in the necessity of stupidly forced character death in order for a story to be 'good'.

Modifié par Grimwick, 08 mai 2012 - 08:33 .

[meatsack]

Grimwick wrote...

ME3 is certainly not the best of the trilogy... by literally miles.
It's a good game, but not a great game. It's out of it's predecessor's league.

OP, I disagree with a lot of what you said. The ending is wrong on so many levels from logistics to logic, and from narrative to thematics it just contradicts itself and the rest of the game until you are left with a punch in the face.
Also, just because you are happy with an emo-nihilistic approach to sci fi in no way means that Shepard HAS to have died in all circumstances... nothing really justifies the death of the protagonist in ME3. The game needed for there to be some happy-ish ending be it bittersweet, as well as a sad ending. instead we just got bitterly sad and a kick in the quad.

I don't believe in the necessity of stupidly forced character death in order for a story to be 'good'.

The way I look at it, Shepard died so his friends, his love, his crew and pretty much everyone else could live ( at least thats the high road my paragon Shepard is taking).

When I do my renegade playthrough, I'll probably make another choice.

[inFam0us]

OP, i'm glad you enjoyed the game, I really am, but what you fail to see is that Bioware PROMISED that all choices from the first, second and third game would matter, that there would be 16 DIFFERENT endings, that it wouldn't be a ''Pick A, B, or C'' or a ''Pick a color'' ending.

There were a dozen official statements of Bioware telling us that it would ALL matter. They were pushed, they didn't have the resources to give us what we want, but why lie to us!? Why make promises that you can't keep!?

But in the end, it didn't, and thats what pissed me off. I just felt so empty when i finished the game... all those promises, all the hope that Bioware was giving us telling us it would be the best game of the trilogy, the epic ending of a brilliant sci-fi game.

Where is the exploration?
Where are those choices that would matter in the end?

Exactly, no where. The best they could give was a sad, badly photoshopped picture and telling us that is Tali.

[jakal66]

I love how these so called fans who are so angry about the ending always question our decision to like the ending...it's like they want us to feel angry and pissed and depressed.Here's an idea, I don't have to justify crap... I liked it because I did.I hate people trying to force up a way of thinking just because they can't be mature enough to be tolerant.We have to put up with all your rage and whining you've filled these forums since ME2, why do we have to "explain" why we like it or at least are not so conflicted about it.Lotta angry nerd raging here.

[Grimwick]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

ME3 is certainly not the best of the trilogy... by literally miles.

I hate how everybody uses that word incorrectly.

Yes, I admit it was used incorrectly. But these days it's being used more and more for emphasis and soon the definition is likely to be changed to meet this more relaxed use.

[soldo9149]

Sir i am happy you enjoyed a ending and all and I agree the rest of the game was fun, still tons of things that needed to polish in the game before they should have sent it out.

Now I have to disagree with you on the ending. When the ending has characters doing things out of character like Joker, Garrus, etc and introducing a new main villain the reaper AI that presents you with his three options along with many other things that are wrong with the ending it comes down to poor writing, rushed, and or they just didn't care. There is no reason for Garrus, Joker, and anyone for that matter to leave that battle, they defeat the reapers in the sol system or the reapers win this cycle. Running away was not a option, everyone knew this before going in.

The three endings are not our choices they are his, just like how right now the reapers are his way to preserve life by ending it. He gave us the three choices. Now accepting ether control or synthesis is letting the reapers win basically and destroy well you just doomed even more beings to die in the sol system and many other worlds who relied on the relay system for food, trade, and etc so congratulations you just became the worst mass murderer than anyone in history, besides space brat since he and his reaper toys who have been killing everyone in the galaxy for at least 1 billion years. If you want me to explain how i come to this conclusion send me a private message or im sure you can find out by searching for those answers.

Now the reapers are still evil, they are saving organics from synthetics, by killing organics and turning them into goo before there own synthetics which they might create, and which might destroy them and or all organics. As of right now, yeah that's evil to me. Now they don't seem to resemble the cultures they saved, they don't keep any of the history, the music, myths of the saved cultures since the reapers all act the same,they just keep reaping and killing and turning more races into goo.

[Tallin Harperson]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

That awkward moment when you realize OP isn't aware that how similar all three endings turn out.

How so? One ends with the Geth and Reapers destroyed (and Shep may be alive), another with the Reapers controlled and the Geth potentially still around and yet another with everyone with a little bit of the "other side" built into their makeup. Not to mention the multiple other things that one affects throughout the game. The fate of the Rachni or Krogan, and whether they are for you or against you, for instance. Don't confuse the similarity of the cutscenes with similarity in the endings. The galaxy is as completely different as your Shepard made it. Hopefully the EC will expand on this, but the differences are still there. Whether they are shown in the final cutscene or not, the things you did throughout the game still happened.

Modifié par Tallin Harperson, 08 mai 2012 - 11:07 .

[Tazzmission]

[quote]Cthulhu42 wrote...


[/quote]
That awkward moment when you realize OP isn't aware that how similar all three endings turn out.

[/quote]


why? you mad because op dosent sit around for 3 months and pee himself acting like a child online that you are owed something?

get over it if op likes hey hey its ops opinion. hell i love the game so i dare you to try and say i fail to understand because im pretty sure im better then you can ever be

[Father_Jerusalem]

Resse wrote...

OP I have serious questions.

What exactly do you like about the ending?

In addition please answer the following:
1. What happened to your crew and why were they in a certain spot when they were supposed to be at your side?
2. Why did a certain ship leave the battle and abandons you when you need them most?
3. What do you think about the character introduced in the very last second and it's comments?
4. What color did you pick and why and what did you think at that moment?
5. Did you feel like your choices mattered?

I could ask you so many more questions, but please answer at least these few.

I'm happy that you're happy with the ending you got, but I want to understand how you can actually be happy with it.

Not that I think you actually care about people's responses, and are simply asking these questions as a way of being snide and trolling anyone who dares have a different opinion than you, but I'll go ahead and answer them as well.

1. Actual plot hole - hopefully to be resolved in the EC. 
2. Also a plot hole - though easily explained by Joker fleeing  a big ol wave of energy, or Hackett issuing an order to retreat that we simply didn't hear because we weren't on the ship when the order was issued. Also hopefully to be resolved in the EC.
3. I think the character gets a lot of undeserved hate, and a lot of misunderstanding. For the record, the "yo dawg" argument is competely and utterly flawed, and as soon as you understand that what he actually says is not "kill" but "preserve", hopefully you'll be able to actually get his points.
4. Blue, because my Renegade Shepard, simply put, agreed with the Illusive Man. The Reapers - properly blued - could be more than simply engines of destruction, they could be tools to humanity's dominance and a new era.
5. Absolutely, every choice I made mattered to me, and to my Shepard. Did they play out exactly as I expected? Of course not. But they mattered.

[Darth Malice113]

[quote]Tazzmission wrote...

[quote]Cthulhu42 wrote...


[/quote]
That awkward moment when you realize OP isn't aware that how similar all three endings turn out.

[/quote]


why? you mad because op dosent sit around for 3 months and pee himself acting like a child online that you are owed something?

get over it if op likes hey hey its ops opinion. hell i love the game so i dare you to try and say i fail to understand because im pretty sure im better then you can ever be

[/quote]

One thing is certain. You fail at capitalization and punctuation.

MY EYES, MY EYES! 

[Eralrik]

I'm happy the OP enjoyed the game and had fun playing it, I myself enjoyed playing the game up until I met the Holo of the kid and realized the endings came from Deus Ex Human Evolution.

I wonder if anyone from Eidos Montreal has had a chance to play through ME3 and if they felt it similiar to their game.

Modifié par Eralrik, 08 mai 2012 - 11:47 .

[Tallin Harperson]

Darth Malice113 wrote...

One thing is certain. You fail at capitalization and punctuation.

MY EYES, MY EYES! 

Um... your punctuation isn't all that great, either. Your first period should be a colon.

[Darth Malice113]

Tallin Harperson wrote...

Darth Malice113 wrote...

One thing is certain. You fail at capitalization and punctuation.

MY EYES, MY EYES! 

Um... your punctuation isn't all that great, either. Your first period should be a colon.

I never claimed to be perfect. I just try to make my posts legible and thus comprehensible.

My bad.
 
Maybe I should remove capitalization and punctuation all together.


iliek krogunz cuz they r big an mad u ever wonder wut was the first race becuz it may shed more light on what the starkid is i mean was he apart of the 1st race or is he one of there AIs how much do uz think the ec will cover



Maybe not.

[Tallin Harperson]

Darth Malice113 wrote...

I never claimed to be perfect. I just try to make my posts legible and thus comprehensible.

My bad.
 
Maybe I should remove capitalization and punctuation all together.


iliek krogunz cuz they r big an mad u ever wonder wut was the first race becuz it may shed more light on what the starkid is i mean was he apart of the 1st race or is he one of there AIs how much do uz think the ec will cover



Maybe not.

I could have sworn I put a winky face at the end there... anyway, it was meant to be a lighthearted ribbing, not a serious critique. Sorry.

[Darth Malice113]

Tallin Harperson wrote...

Darth Malice113 wrote...

I never claimed to be perfect. I just try to make my posts legible and thus comprehensible.

My bad.
 
Maybe I should remove capitalization and punctuation all together.


iliek krogunz cuz they r big an mad u ever wonder wut was the first race becuz it may shed more light on what the starkid is i mean was he apart of the 1st race or is he one of there AIs how much do uz think the ec will cover



Maybe not.

I could have sworn I put a winky face at the end there... anyway, it was meant to be a lighthearted ribbing, not a serious critique. Sorry.

It's cool.

Btw I know my grammar is atrocious, but at least I try.

[Gibb_Shepard]

I love that. "The ending was brilliant, because it wasn't a happy one"

Your standards my friend. They are quite low.

[Selene Moonsong]

ME 3 wrote...

@meatsack
A deus ex machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.
It's latin and its the reason the ending is complete rubbish

One fatal flaw in the deus ex machina assertion is that ME 3 is loaded foreshadowing, beginning with the blueprints found on Mars for the device, and it did not come out of the blue. What the device does is a complete unknown and there are multiple conversations having concerns about what it actually does. The only thing they know about it is that it is extremely powerful and are willing to risk it for the sheer fact that conventional means aren't likely to defeat the reapers.

[ChildOfEden]

meatsack wrote...


So I just finished my first play
through of ME3 last night ( I know, 2 months seems like a long time
but with 2 kids under 6 time is a rare commodity for me )
I first want to say the ME3 in IMHO the
best game of the 3 . . . fantastic story, emotionally engaging ( yes
I teared up a few times, here is my man card, take it ) and great
game play( on a pc, I found the cover system much improved over ME2).
Definite game of the year for 2012 if not the last 5 years.


Now that being said, its time to
address the elephant in the room . . . the ending.

I thought the ending was brillant. Now
before you start shouting "Troll" at me . . . let me
explain.

I think it really boils down to how you
viewed the game ... Mass Effect, to me, has at its core always been a
Sci-fi epic. Although the primary theme through the trilogy has been
focused on the threat of the Reapers, the core sci-fi elements have
always been carried along through all 3 games . . .Who are the
reapers, who built them, why do they repeat this 50,000 year cycle of
destruction, and what does it all mean for the future of humanity.

The Mass Effect trilogy, in my view,
was never destined to be wrapped up in a "we win, and everyone
lives happily ever after " final.

So the ending, to me, was a hard core
Sci-fi ending . . . and I am very happy with it.
Now that being said, I do think some
complaints are valid. Their are some questions that still need to be
answered and some plot holes explained so I hope the Extended cut
fills in the gaps. I can't mention said questions or wished for
clarifications because I promised this post to be spoiler free.

My hats off to you Bioware for a hell
of a game. Starting on my second playthrough this weekend.

After your 3rd gameplay you'll feel differently. I was exactly like you, till I took those three endings to the face.