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[Patchwork]

LOL I now judge Anderson for his bad taste in clothes.

I felt Shepard was more a mentor to Vega and the flirting was just marine BS on both their parts. I can understand people wanting Vega as a LI option especially given the lack of choices FemShep has. For it to work though the friendship path would need to re-worked otherwise it veers dangerously close to being a ninjamance.
As is it's a strictly platonic relationship and is no threat to my FemSheps' actual romance. If Vega becomes a possible LI however then I'm auto dialogued into kinda cheating on boyfriend and that's a big problem for me.

[Asdara]

TonyTitan wrote...

I really like your post Asdara....Your thoughts on these 'issues', kinda hit the perverbial nail on the head.    But if I may add some more discussion to your post....

Thanks!  It's always nice to be appreciated.

Tony Titan wrote...

Agreed!  Rank even played an issue with Ashley in ME1...at first she was a tad bit uncomfortable with Shep. 'hitting up' on her.  Obviously the scene didn't come across to strongly to suggest that she would actually press charges against Shep...but she did make it 'softly' known that fraternizing among the ranks was not cool.  And after getting to know Ash more within ME1...and her thoughts towards aliens....I almost wish they would have kept her simply as a 'flirt' to Shep, and had let him find someone who was more tolerant and in the same mindset of his. (Meaning that Shep knew working with 'aliens' was perfectly acceptable....and his potential LI would have NO issue with that.  Ash NEVER fit that....not even in ME2)

James seems to be a bit like Ash.  And I only mean that in regards to his comfort among rank.  I think he only views Shep as a superior officer...Shep I love in how she's acceptable with being a 'friend' amongst her crew.  They're squadmates, but also friends...and to this extent, it is how I feel it is as far as it should go between James and Shep.  They make awesome friends.  Hell, the 2 of them just about beat the living snot out of each other....Friends can do that sort of thing...LI's couldn't.  In a situation like that...where they 'dance'.....the 'loser' is going to walk away with hurt feelings.  "Crap, I just got beaten by my bf/gf......sulk.....sulk.....sulk". 

Jacob on the other hand I just did not like at all.  Here's a Cerberus soldier who merely helps Shep escape from the facility in ME2....to one conversation later you're trusting him, or not.....then within 2-3 conversations later (once aboard the Normandy, you're starting to hit on him????  REALLY!??  Nah....Jacob I just never really cared for.  Did his loyalty mission and that was it with him.  ESPECIALLY once I heard him sounding like he was about to 'soil' himself when vocalizing, "Putting up a barrier!"......

Yes, Jacob was in a different command structure, but he opperated a lot like he was still in Alliance as far as his behavior went in respect to the chain of command (all the salutes, ma'am-ing, etc.)  I think I covered how much I didn't like him as an LI overall, and I felt it was a waste of a potentially good character that he didn't have a friendship option.  The assumption that I was trying to get into his pants every time we talked - even to the pose my Shep would take leaning suggestively on the table there - was just not something I enjoyed at all.

I agree that how James is written now is totally friend and friendly flirtation only.  I think that would be a shame to lose, if one didn't intend to romance him, but I think he could be taken up a notch to romance with enough tweaking.  Someone else suggested the nick-name acceptance being a trigger line - if there was another option in the dialog of "Sure, but call me ma'am if we're on a mission" to keep friendly going by allowing casual behavior, but the "you're cute so I'll let you get away with it" line to trigger an option to romance (with more serious flirtation/romantic options to follow) that would be maybe a good compromise.

Asdara wrote...

On a semi-related note: is there capacity to determine how much a player is "into" his or her squad mates by tracking how often they are brought on missions? Like, if we take Garrus with us absolutely everywhere, could that tell the game that maybe we like-like him? Or James, or whoever? Make romances with the people we talk to most often/bring with us more often more romancy?

I think that would be a cool dynamic way to change up the romance/friendship spectrum, but I have no idea how feasible it actually is from a dev/programming point.

Tony Titan wrote...

That would be a cool dynamic...IF it could be created into the game play.  However, what about times where Shep might feel that a situation/mission would be to dangerous....and keep his/her LI OFF the mission because of that?  That's one of those things I've thought of at times while playing......But I'm with you....I think it would be pretty cool if some sort of system could be created that accounted for such things.  

Heck, they could even just ask us at the start of a second-game set up screen.  I know it's breaking the wall a little bit, but I think it's a recognized fact that on replays people are considering different play options.  If we could, say, designate up to 3 characters as "potential romance" per game on our own and have friendship line alternatives for any non-selected - that would be cool.  It would also involve us a little bit more in our story-crafting (something Bioware/EA is always claiming they want to do for us).  Like a toggle for friend/romance we could set per play, that would be (I assume) a lot easier than a perceptive party member over time usage flexibility, and it would then eliminate the problem of predicting when one leaves a love behind from danger (though I usually don't do that, since "death" doesn't happen on missions in ME2 or ME3 unless it's totally scripted and that character is locked in already by the game).

Modifié par Asdara, 12 mai 2012 - 07:05 .

[Whale]

Asdara wrote...
On a semi-related note: is there capacity to determine how much a player is "into" his or her squad mates by tracking how often they are brought on missions? Like, if we take Garrus with us absolutely everywhere, could that tell the game that maybe we like-like him? Or James, or whoever? Make romances with the people we talk to most often/bring with us more often more romancy?

I think that would be a cool dynamic way to change up the romance/friendship spectrum, but I have no idea how feasible it actually is from a dev/programming point.

I think this data is actually already tracked in the game. There is a relationship index of sort and through a snafu Gabby and Ken's banter trigger was tied to Ashley's. One of the devs found this and posted on the forum that actions that would increase this value are  talking to her, bringing her the gift at the hospital and taking her on missions. In game, I think this value was used to decide the choices available at the Citadel coup scene, so it might be they were tracked only for Ash and Kaidan, but I seem to remember the squadmate to survive the final scene is also selected this way (if you didn't have a LI) so I imagine the data is there.

What would also be nice is to use this info in a non-romance way. I would really like the game to acknowledge friendships and comraderie as well as sweet lovin' - there was some of this with Liara but it was a bit enforced and was pretty much the same whether you were best buddies or you left her in ther cabin for the whole game. Even just an extra dialogue at the end from the squadmate you used the most about having each other's back or blowing up stuff or friendly battlefield banter a' la Gimli and Legolas.

Re: what the devs were thinking when they decided to turn femShep's romantic options into a hot girl-on-girl action trope, my sad sad thought is that they know perfectly well that women play this game, but also that they are so numbed to gratuitous sexism (especially if they're into sci-fi / gaming) that there's really nothing to lose in treating them like third-rate customers. I hope I'm wrong and it's just cluelessness.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

On Shepard/Vega flirting. Do BroShep and Vega flirt too? Or is it just with FemShep?

[SilentK]

jeweledleah wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Except romance and not being able to get a punch from Vega (Double standard), FemShep gets the same stuff MaleShep (Sheploo is just the main default face for Shepard)

heh?  my femshep got punched when I didn't take the interupt. had a bloody lip and everything.

that said - story is exactly the same with a few extras (as far as i know, mostly in Tuchanka related dialogues, with Wrex and Eve)  Romances... weeeelll...  not as many choices as maleshep.. but romances in general, in ME3 were... well, there were issues. mostly that had to do with how romances were locked in and how potential romantic partners reacted.  it was all far too binary and if you switched partners, complete erasure of prior relationships was IMO sloppily done.

I agree a 100% with you on the thing that it feels a little strange that past relationships doesn't come up again when you have found your "one true love" in ME3. Hmm.... if my FemShep moved on from Liara to Kaidan I would have thought that there would at least be a mention of it. Don't expect something huge, just because how much is at stake at the moment but... something... It feels like the first relationship never happened at all in the game at the moment, because it doesn't factor in at all. It is... a little strange somehow.

So yes, I loved my romance-arc with Kaidan and Traynor. But I fully agree with you that it is a far too binary. The past could just as well not have happened at all as it is now. That is less fun, I have created FemShep's with love-triangles for the sole purpose of seeing something new in ME3. This was not what I had in mind. There doesn't have to be epic shouthing-matches or such things. But, it should at least feel as if that prior relationship exsisted.

[swordmalice]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

On Shepard/Vega flirting. Do BroShep and Vega flirt too? Or is it just with FemShep?

Just FemShep, I'm pretty sure. I have 2 playthroughs with BroShep and I recall not a single bit of flirting between them. Their relationship is more mentor/protoge ala Shep & Garrus in ME1.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

swordmalice wrote...

Just FemShep, I'm pretty sure. I have 2 playthroughs with BroShep and I recall not a single bit of flirting between them. Their relationship is more mentor/protoge ala Shep & Garrus in ME1.

I am disappoint. FemShep and Kelly flirt, FemShep even makes a flirty remark or two towards EDI. So why doesn't BroShep flirt with Vega? Probably because blokes playing would complain, I've answered my own question there. I thought Vega was gay anyway and FemShep was just teasing him. I ship Cortez/Vega.