225 réponses à ce sujet

[Erield]

Elyiia wrote...

Samantha isn't a better SB than Liara, the reason Samantha gets all those missions is for two reasons: One, she's right next to the galaxy map. Two, they needed a way for Samantha to stand out.

No.  The primary reason why she'd be a better SB than Liara is that she's busy analyzing and capturing data; Liara spends much of her time gallivanting about the galaxy with Shepard.  Liara has focused all of her efforts of intelligence gathering on what will help build the Crucible.  Traynor has all of her efforts focused on data regarding fighting the war.

[hoodaticus]

Kunari801 wrote...

Since Traynor isn't trying to get into my male Shep's pants I'd pick her over Liara. I like Liara well enough, just as friends.

Traynor's hawt.

[kyg_20X6]

Erield wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Samantha isn't a better SB than Liara, the reason Samantha gets all those missions is for two reasons: One, she's right next to the galaxy map. Two, they needed a way for Samantha to stand out.

No.  The primary reason why she'd be a better SB than Liara is that she's busy analyzing and capturing data; Liara spends much of her time gallivanting about the galaxy with Shepard.  Liara has focused all of her efforts of intelligence gathering on what will help build the Crucible.  Traynor has all of her efforts focused on data regarding fighting the war.

But I bet you those 'finds' of Traynor's were originally considered for Liara. Then they probably said we can't have Liara do everything, why not give it to Traynor it would flesh her out, give her a chance to shine? Then they do, and you complain why didn't Liara do it and how awesome Traynor is? If they'd given it to Liara you'd complain about them 'shoving her down your throat' and that Traynor was a bland/useless character. You can't have it both ways.

I guess this is a real case of 'haters gonna hate'.

And the war IS the Crucible. The attempt at a 'conventional war' is just buying time for the Crucible. It's what matters the most.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 09 mai 2012 - 01:47 .

[Dan Dark]

Elyiia wrote...

Samantha isn't a better SB than Liara, the reason Samantha gets all those missions is for two reasons: One, she's right next to the galaxy map. Two, they needed a way for Samantha to stand out.

Pretty much this. Especially the second part. If Liara was the one providing you with all the intel on new missions and whatnot, what point would Samantha serve? Reminding you when you have mail? They introduced a new character, and needed to give her enough to make her worthwhile. Secondly, seeing how many people there are around here already who can't stand Liara, would you really want her to have had an even larger role than she already did? Splitting the duties of focusing on the war and focusing on the Crucible between two characters might not make sense, in-universe, but it does make sense from a writing perspective - it allows both characters to be important, without outright overshadowing either one. ...but, like several other things in this game, it could have been written a bit better.

EDIT: Heh. I got ninja'd by someone basically making the exact same point I was trying to. Well played! XD

Modifié par Dan Dark, 09 mai 2012 - 01:52 .

[TNT1991]

Makrys wrote...

Another Liara hate thread? Seriously? Whatever. People always pick on whoever's on top.

Aww...another one of those annoying"I think Liara is the goddess of the universe and can do no wrong and every other character can't be loved or better than the all mighty and holy Liara" fans.  

Garlador wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Oh look the Liara haters are jealous that their chosen LI isn't as cool as she is.

Liara hater? Liara WAS my LI and I STILL don't know why she sucks as the Shadow Broker.

 lol

Modifié par TNT1991, 09 mai 2012 - 02:07 .

[Linksys17]

webkit-fake-url://B6CE8BE4-8971-42F3-9A10-46129A1CF4B2/imagegifI don't know who drew this but I almost died laughing

[alec1898]

Makrys wrote...

Another Liara hate thread? Seriously? Whatever. People always pick on whoever's on top.

I find it absolutely delicious how all this threads haters have liara avas and sigs. ;333

[SAmaster01]

I'm sorry, Samantha took a long time to grow on me. She was about as interesting as Cortez. (STEVE!!!)

Though you do make valid points, Liara being a shadow broker doesn't seem to do much. I blame that on the writers though. Probably the same people who wrote the ending, or designed the journal.

[Elyiia]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Erield wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Samantha isn't a better SB than Liara, the reason Samantha gets all those missions is for two reasons: One, she's right next to the galaxy map. Two, they needed a way for Samantha to stand out.

No.  The primary reason why she'd be a better SB than Liara is that she's busy analyzing and capturing data; Liara spends much of her time gallivanting about the galaxy with Shepard.  Liara has focused all of her efforts of intelligence gathering on what will help build the Crucible.  Traynor has all of her efforts focused on data regarding fighting the war.

But I bet you those 'finds' of Traynor's were originally considered for Liara. Then they probably said we can't have Liara do everything, why not give it to Traynor it would flesh her out, give her a chance to shine? Then they do, and you complain why didn't Liara do it and how awesome Traynor is? If they'd given it to Liara you'd complain about them 'shoving her down your throat' and that Traynor was a bland/useless character. You can't have it both ways.

I guess this is a real case of 'haters gonna hate'.

And the war IS the Crucible. The attempt at a 'conventional war' is just buying time for the Crucible. It's what matters the most.

The only thing missing from your post is:

[alienatedflea]

Garlador wrote...

Look, I know Liara is a ME1 fan-favorite and all... but if we're being honest, I still have zero idea why she's in ME3 other than to try and get into my Shepard's pants for the third or fourth time (no means no, Liara).

As the most powerful information broker in the galaxy, you'd think she'd actually be of use on that front. She's really not. She intercepts a few pointless emails here and there, but that seems to be the gist of her usefulness on the ship.

But Samantha Traynor? Where Liara fails to discover things, Samantha is all over it. She doesn't even have the Shadow Broker's network or surveillance equipment, and yet there she is intercepting distress calls, decrypting enemy messages, tracking down terrorists, and giving you missions over and over that help you out and help save lives.

In other words, Samantha needs Liara's job because she's already doing it better than Liara is and isn't even using a tenth of Liara's resources. She's already so good at it, we can probably forgive her for being a never-nude (and I hear there are dozens of never-nudes in the galaxy. DOZENS).

Anyone agree? Disagree?

I disagree
Liara can hold her own in combat...Samantha is a desk jocky.
Liara has tons of more useful info for shep than Samantha (Sam is Kelly's replacement...face it) thus is why she is still around.

[Warp92]

To those saying Liara is horrible Shadow Broker because she doesn't have intel on Cerberus.
1. She doesn't have the enormous base of operations anymore ( Cerberus took it over probably why they know so much )
2. Most of her contacts have ceased making contact with her
3. It doesn't help when the galaxy is under siege.

I like almost all characters in ME series, maybe just a few that bug me here and their but I still enjoy the conversations that go on. I will defend a character if I see a valid reason to defend them.

[Garlador]

Warp92 wrote...

To those saying Liara is horrible Shadow Broker because she doesn't have intel on Cerberus.
1. She doesn't have the enormous base of operations anymore ( Cerberus took it over probably why they know so much )
2. Most of her contacts have ceased making contact with her
3. It doesn't help when the galaxy is under siege.

I like almost all characters in ME series, maybe just a few that bug me here and their but I still enjoy the conversations that go on. I will defend a character if I see a valid reason to defend them.

It's not just Cerberus. There is not a single solitary main mission in the game that Liara is privvy to prior to it happening.

Udina staging a coup? Liara SERIOUSLY didn't have tabs on Udina? He's probably the shadiest character anybody in their right mind would want to keep tabs on.

The females the Salarians had and the genophage cure? Liara's got nothing.

Liara has no idea about the horrors of "Sanctuary". She has no clue what's going on with Grissom Academy. She doesn't even know what's going on with former friends like Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Ashley/Kaiden, and others.

It's not JUST Cerberus... but Cerberus is a big, glaring example of her just not doing her job.

This does not mean I hate Liara, this does not mean I hate her personality or her role in combat... but I find her to be a completely useless Shadow Broker.

She doesn't give you ONE SINGLE LEAD using her galaxy-spanning network of spies and surveillance. Samantha, however, gives you quite a few big ones just decrypting comm chatter.

[Erield]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Erield wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Samantha isn't a better SB than Liara, the reason Samantha gets all those missions is for two reasons: One, she's right next to the galaxy map. Two, they needed a way for Samantha to stand out.

No.  The primary reason why she'd be a better SB than Liara is that she's busy analyzing and capturing data; Liara spends much of her time gallivanting about the galaxy with Shepard.  Liara has focused all of her efforts of intelligence gathering on what will help build the Crucible.  Traynor has all of her efforts focused on data regarding fighting the war.

But I bet you those 'finds' of Traynor's were originally considered for Liara. Then they probably said we can't have Liara do everything, why not give it to Traynor it would flesh her out, give her a chance to shine? Then they do, and you complain why didn't Liara do it and how awesome Traynor is? If they'd given it to Liara you'd complain about them 'shoving her down your throat' and that Traynor was a bland/useless character. You can't have it both ways.

I guess this is a real case of 'haters gonna hate'.

And the war IS the Crucible. The attempt at a 'conventional war' is just buying time for the Crucible. It's what matters the most.

I wasn't meaning to suggest that Liara is terrible and worthless and Sam is awesome and wonderful and oh-so-much better.  They both have their sources of information, and they use them to the best of their ability.  Without the conventional battle, there would be no Crucible (TIM, Hackett, etc. all say this).  Both fulfill vital functions for the war effort, based on their specialties.

I like Liara, but I also like Traynor a lot.  So what if they gave those bits of info to Sam instead of Liara to help flesh out the Traynor character?  Her character works, and works well the way it does--without blatantly interfering with Liara as SB.  That's just my opinion though.

[Warp92]

Garlador wrote...

Warp92 wrote...

To those saying Liara is horrible Shadow Broker because she doesn't have intel on Cerberus.
1. She doesn't have the enormous base of operations anymore ( Cerberus took it over probably why they know so much )
2. Most of her contacts have ceased making contact with her
3. It doesn't help when the galaxy is under siege.

I like almost all characters in ME series, maybe just a few that bug me here and their but I still enjoy the conversations that go on. I will defend a character if I see a valid reason to defend them.

It's not just Cerberus. There is not a single solitary main mission in the game that Liara is privvy to prior to it happening.

Udina staging a coup? Liara SERIOUSLY didn't have tabs on Udina? He's probably the shadiest character anybody in their right mind would want to keep tabs on.

The females the Salarians had and the genophage cure? Liara's got nothing.

Liara has no idea about the horrors of "Sanctuary". She has no clue what's going on with Grissom Academy. She doesn't even know what's going on with former friends like Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Ashley/Kaiden, and others.

It's not JUST Cerberus... but Cerberus is a big, glaring example of her just not doing her job.

This does not mean I hate Liara, this does not mean I hate her personality or her role in combat... but I find her to be a completely useless Shadow Broker.

She doesn't give you ONE SINGLE LEAD using her galaxy-spanning network of spies and surveillance. Samantha, however, gives you quite a few big ones just decrypting comm chatter.

Guess the crucible counts for nothing, without it reapers would of wiped out all of the major civilizations.

[Clayless]

[kyg_20X6]

Erield wrote...

I wasn't meaning to suggest that Liara is terrible and worthless and Sam is awesome and wonderful and oh-so-much better.  They both have their sources of information, and they use them to the best of their ability.  Without the conventional battle, there would be no Crucible (TIM, Hackett, etc. all say this).  Both fulfill vital functions for the war effort, based on their specialties.

I like Liara, but I also like Traynor a lot.  So what if they gave those bits of info to Sam instead of Liara to help flesh out the Traynor character?  Her character works, and works well the way it does--without blatantly interfering with Liara as SB.  That's just my opinion though.

Pretty much my point. I'm happy with how both characters are portrayed (I didn't start this thread). I think BW made great compromises so both get to shine. You can't have both Liara and Traynor finding everything, has to be some give and take.

@Galrador If Liara was the all-knowing SB, then no one would care for Traynor. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Traynor finds side-missions based on tenuous intel (she admits as much). Liara's intel is often more pivotal to the mission and more solid. Both ate important to the player. No need for gate. And if Liara knew every important event before it happened it'd diminish the threat Shepard is facing. 

People need to remain objective.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 09 mai 2012 - 04:24 .

[kyg_20X6]

^ "are" not "ate", "hate" not "gate". On iPhone, so apologies...

[Tom Lehrer]

Warp92 wrote...

Guess the crucible counts for nothing, without it reapers would of wiped out all of the major civilizations.

You mean Liara built it all by herslef while running around the galaxy with Shepard? Well damn if she did bouns points!

Oh wait you mean she found the data...the human researchers on Mars found it but they are all dead now so I guess credit goes to her for just being there.

[Warp92]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

^ "are" not "ate", "hate" not "gate". On iPhone, so apologies...

Lol I feel ya samething happens to me when I am typing on my iTouch 

[Warp92]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Warp92 wrote...

Guess the crucible counts for nothing, without it reapers would of wiped out all of the major civilizations.

You mean Liara built it all by herslef while running around the galaxy with Shepard? Well damn if she did bouns points!

Oh wait you mean she found the data...the human researchers on Mars found it but they are all dead now so I guess credit goes to her for just being there.

No but discovery helps..

[LadyWench]

I like your ideas. Samantha did prove to be impressively resourceful for an amateur. As much as Liara makes it sound like she feels like she belongs as SB in LotSB, some of her comments in ME3 seem to imply that she isn't really as happy in that role as she thought she was going to be. While she obviously tried to use SB resources to help Shep compile war assets, her heart still lies with paleontology and uncovering history (e.g. creating the digital time capsule, researching Mars archives, questioning Javik, etc.). At least she seemed less angry in general in ME3, but then, I didn't romance her...I've heard some grumblings about her being stand-offish even if you were loyal. But I digress...

In short: You're right. Liara gets A for effort, but Samantha seems to be naturally talented in the skills the SB needs to be self-sustaining and successful long-term.

[kglaser]

Liara's not my favorite, but I have to stick up for "Lair of the Shadow Broker". That's the best DLC I've ever played.

[Ender Ghost]

Alright, I like Liara, she was my LI and she was pretty helpful, but really if I hadn't know she was the Shadow Broker, I never would have suspected her as being anywhere as informative as Traynor.

I probably would have romanced Traynor but she was a Les...

[Tom Lehrer]

Warp92 wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Warp92 wrote...

Guess the crucible counts for nothing, without it reapers would of wiped out all of the major civilizations.

You mean Liara built it all by herslef while running around the galaxy with Shepard? Well damn if she did bouns points!

Oh wait you mean she found the data...the human researchers on Mars found it but they are all dead now so I guess credit goes to her for just being there.

No but discovery helps..

Did you read my whole post? It was the Human research team that found the data. Liara was just there when they all died. 

[kyg_20X6]

Samantha would make a great agent. Not the SB. IMO.

Like someone said, this is now a Liara hate thread. There's little objective, reasonable dialogue going on here (at least few haters have addressed my points).

"I should go."

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 09 mai 2012 - 04:43 .