225 réponses à ce sujet

[Makrys]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Samantha would make a great agent. Not the SB. IMO.

Like someone said, this is now a Liara hate thread. There's little objective, reasonable dialogue going on here (at least few haters have addressed my points).

"I should go."

Kyg, you should know better than to ever enter these pages. They are little more than hate chambers for people who have little else to do than complain and whine about silly things, to reside in.

*grabs your hand and walks you out*

Modifié par Makrys, 09 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[kglaser]

Makrys wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Samantha would make a great agent. Not the SB. IMO.

Like someone said, this is now a Liara hate thread. There's little objective, reasonable dialogue going on here (at least few haters have addressed my points).

"I should go."

Kyg, you should know better than to ever enter these pages. They are little more than hate chambers for people who have little else to do than complain and whine about silly things, to reside in.

*grabs your hand and walks you out*

Careful.  Your agenda is showing.

[kyg_20X6]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Did you read my whole post? It was the Human research team that found the data. Liara was just there when they all died. 

(before I leave)

I could be wrong, but the Prothean ruins and Alliance base have been there for decades. Hackett called Liara in (after Shepard was detained) to go through the data (as SB and Prothean expert) and look for something that might help defeat the Reapers. She found the blueprints for the Crucible. She told Hackett just as the Reapers arrive (who sends Shepard to help) and then Cerberus attack the facility. That's how I recall it, I could be wrong though.

[Tom Lehrer]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

If Liara was the all-knowing SB, then no one would care for Traynor. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Traynor finds side-missions based on tenuous intel (she admits as much). Liara's intel is often more pivotal to the mission and more solid. Both ate important to the player. No need for gate. And if Liara knew every important event before it happened it'd diminish the threat Shepard is facing. 

People need to remain objective.

What pivotal intel does Liara ever give us though? Other then being the one to tells us about the Crucible she gives us no new information.

She fails to learn major things that the Shadowbroker should know. Krogan females, Udina up to something, and crazy stuff on Horrizon. These are HUGE things and all the Shadow Broker can tell us is Tali bought a new sex toy.

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 09 mai 2012 - 05:08 .

[Tom Lehrer]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Did you read my whole post? It was the Human research team that found the data. Liara was just there when they all died. 

(before I leave)

I could be wrong, but the Prothean ruins and Alliance base have been there for decades. Hackett called Liara in (after Shepard was detained) to go through the data (as SB and Prothean expert) and look for something that might help defeat the Reapers. She found the blueprints for the Crucible. She told Hackett just as the Reapers arrive (who sends Shepard to help) and then Cerberus attack the facility. That's how I recall it, I could be wrong though.

Liara says herself they were only found because of the process of elimination. The team had already looked through most of the data in the archives leaving only the crucible plans to be found. This means anyone could have found it.

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 09 mai 2012 - 05:05 .

[kyg_20X6]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

If Liara was the all-knowing SB, then no one would care for Traynor. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Traynor finds side-missions based on tenuous intel (she admits as much). Liara's intel is often more pivotal to the mission and more solid. Both ate important to the player. No need for gate. And if Liara knew every important event before it happened it'd diminish the threat Shepard is facing. 

People need to remain objective.

What pivotal intel does Liara ever give us though? Other then being the one to tells us about the Crucible she gives us no new information.

She fails to learn major things that the Shadowbroker should know. Krogan females, Udina up to something, and crazy stuff on Horrizon. These are HUGE things and all the Shadow Broker can tell is Tali baught a new sex toy.

You fail to address my point (in bold). People should look at things more from the writers/developers POV. You only have X amount of resources and you have to try give every character equal treatment. You also can't undermine the plot. If Liara was as you desire, she'd break the game and diminish the enemy and involvement of several other characters (then you'd hate her for that). BW made a good compromise. We got two great characters. You just want to hate.

Liara gives you the Crucible (the only chance at defeating the Reapers). She gives you Javik (what she believed would help figure out the Crucible, you can't blame her for who he ends up being). She gives you the Asari monastery mission (on par with Traynor's missions), but it comes from a more reliable source (the Asari govt) rather than some garbled data. All Traynor's missions were based on tenuous leads that could have backfired and derailed the mission. Both the Cerberus scientists and Grissom Academy missions could have been traps. Sanctuary could have just as easily been a failure (but I'm sure if Liara hadn't just seen her world destroyed, she would have said the same thing Traynor said).

Traynor would not have the stomach or determination (she's never sure what she has is any good), but her technical expertise would make a great agent of the SB is that's what she wanted. Can't think of anything else to say on this matter.

[kyg_20X6]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Liara says herself they were only found because of the process of elimination. The team had already looked through most of the data in the archives leaving only the crucible plans to be found. This means anyone could have found it.

SHE found them through process of elimination. If she wasn't needed, she wouldn't have been called in. She is not the galaxy's, or at least the Alliance's (they need her in ME1 as well), leading Prothean expert for nothing.

[TNT1991]

Makrys wrote...

Kyg, you should know better than to ever enter these pages. They are little more than hate chambers for people who have little else to do than complain and whine about silly things, to reside in.

I smell hypocrisy in that post. 

[kyg_20X6]

Makrys wrote...

Kyg, you should know better than to ever enter these pages. They are little more than hate chambers for people who have little else to do than complain and whine about silly things, to reside in.

*grabs your hand and walks you out*

You can't assume every one is beyond reason. But judging by the post above this one (and similar of its ilk), you're right.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 09 mai 2012 - 05:25 .

[Tom Lehrer]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

You fail to address my point (in bold). People should look at things more from the writers/developers POV. You only have X amount of resources and you have to try give every character equal treatment. You also can't undermine the plot. If Liara was as you desire, she'd break the game and diminish the enemy and involvement of several other characters (then you'd hate her for that). BW made a good compromise. We got two great characters. You just want to hate.

Liara gives you the Crucible (the only chance at defeating the Reapers). She gives you Javik (what she believed would help figure out the Crucible, you can't blame her for who he ends up being). She gives you the Asari monastery mission (on par with Traynor's missions), but it comes from a more reliable source (the Asari govt) rather than some garbled data. All Traynor's missions were based on tenuous leads that could have backfired and derailed the mission. Both the Cerberus scientists and Grissom Academy missions could have been traps. Sanctuary could have just as easily been a failure (but I'm sure if Liara hadn't just seen her world destroyed, she would have said the same thing Traynor said).

Traynor would not have the stomach or determination (she's never sure what she has is any good), but her technical expertise would make a great agent of the SB is that's what she wanted. Can't think of anything else to say on this matter.

She does not need to be some all knowing god to be made out as a decent Shadow Broker. They could have easily changed on of her bed room visits to an informitive talk were she says Udina has been actting strange and is having agents keep tabs on him. The same can be said for Horrizion "The people who have gone to Sanctuary are never heard from agein".

A few extra lines like that and Liara would of come off as a much better Broker.

kyg_20X6 wrote...

SHE found them through process of elimination. If she wasn't needed, she wouldn't have been called in. She is not the galaxy's, or at least the Alliance's (they need her in ME1 as well), leading Prothean expert for nothing.

She never says who found the data only that it was found because ALL other information in the archives had been studied to death.

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 09 mai 2012 - 05:32 .

[OH-UP-THIS!]

Traynor? Shadow-broker? sure why not.

[4stringwizard]

Liara: "I'm a very good information broker."

Shepard: "Riiiiiight."

[4stringwizard]

Dendio1 wrote...

Liara is the reason shepard didnt rot away after Me2. Liara is the reason shepard was able to comprehend the prothean beacon in ME1. Liara is the reason we find the crucible in ME3.

LIARA HATERS: complain she does too much, then complain she doesnt do enough

It's because she does waaaay too much of what she shouldn't be doing (creeping on Shepard; trying to get into his/her pants; spying on crew members) and not enough of what she should be doing (digging up useful intel).

[bahamutomega]

legion999 wrote...

Shepard: "So who told you about the females Wrex?"
Wrex: "Not Liara."

Yeah despite having such a wide info network Liara didn't seem to know alot. The beacon on Thessia comes to mind.

which is also kind of amusing given that she even says she has access to the Asari leadership in LotSB.

too right OP.  Traynor organizes the entire fleet on a single screen.  Liara organizes her television sets.  and gets the same channel the entire game.

next playthrough is going to have my Shep dump Liara for Traynor.  i can't believe i ever went for her.  maybe i should go back to ME2 and Genesis and tell them all to **** off.

[Elyiia]

4stringwizard wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Liara is the reason shepard didnt rot away after Me2. Liara is the reason shepard was able to comprehend the prothean beacon in ME1. Liara is the reason we find the crucible in ME3.

LIARA HATERS: complain she does too much, then complain she doesnt do enough

It's because she does waaaay too much of what she shouldn't be doing (creeping on Shepard; trying to get into his/her pants; spying on crew members) and not enough of what she should be doing (digging up useful intel).

Again, if Bioware had allowed her to actually be the Shadow Broker properly we would have known Cerberus's location in the first ten minutes of the game. The problem is that they had to give Traynor to do something other than tell me someone wants to talk to me, which I already know because I've managed to check my messages before she mentions is.

[4stringwizard]

Elyiia wrote...

Again, if Bioware had allowed her to actually be the Shadow Broker properly we would have known Cerberus's location in the first ten minutes of the game. The problem is that they had to give Traynor to do something other than tell me someone wants to talk to me, which I already know because I've managed to check my messages before she mentions is.

It doesn't matter what Bioware "could/should" have done.  Fact is, Liara barely did anything that was helpful to Shepard.  She knew all about Tali's suit download history but couldn't tell Shepard anything useful about  the Reapers or Cerberus.  

[Elyiia]

4stringwizard wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Again, if Bioware had allowed her to actually be the Shadow Broker properly we would have known Cerberus's location in the first ten minutes of the game. The problem is that they had to give Traynor to do something other than tell me someone wants to talk to me, which I already know because I've managed to check my messages before she mentions is.

It doesn't matter what Bioware "could/should" have done.  Fact is, Liara barely did anything that was helpful to Shepard.  She knew all about Tali's suit download history but couldn't tell Shepard anything useful about  the Reapers or Cerberus.  

It matters entirely what Bioware wrote. If she had done what you say she should have done everyone in this thread would be complaining that Liara did too much and Traynor was pointless. You have to look at the situation from a developer's point of view.

[4stringwizard]

Elyiia wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Again, if Bioware had allowed her to actually be the Shadow Broker properly we would have known Cerberus's location in the first ten minutes of the game. The problem is that they had to give Traynor to do something other than tell me someone wants to talk to me, which I already know because I've managed to check my messages before she mentions is.

It doesn't matter what Bioware "could/should" have done.  Fact is, Liara barely did anything that was helpful to Shepard.  She knew all about Tali's suit download history but couldn't tell Shepard anything useful about  the Reapers or Cerberus.  

It matters entirely what Bioware wrote. If she had done what you say she should have done everyone in this thread would be complaining that Liara did too much and Traynor was pointless. You have to look at the situation from a developer's point of view.

Not so.  If Liara had spent more time being useful and less time trying to stalk Shepard, I think a lot of people would be more happy. 

[kyg_20X6]

4stringwizard wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Again,
if Bioware had allowed her to actually be the Shadow Broker properly we
would have known Cerberus's location in the first ten minutes of the
game. The problem is that they had to give Traynor to do something other
than tell me someone wants to talk to me, which I already know because
I've managed to check my messages before she mentions is.

It
doesn't matter what Bioware "could/should" have done.  Fact is, Liara
barely did anything that was helpful to Shepard.  She knew all about
Tali's suit download history but couldn't tell Shepard anything useful
about  the Reapers or Cerberus.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie]

It
matters entirely what Bioware wrote. If she had done what you say she
should have done everyone in this thread would be complaining that Liara
did too much and Traynor was pointless. You have to look at the
situation from a developer's point of view.

Not so.
 If Liara had spent more time being useful and less time trying to stalk
Shepard, I think a lot of people would be more happy. 

@Elyiia He's trolling you now. Just leave.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 09 mai 2012 - 06:04 .

[Elyiia]

4stringwizard wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Again, if Bioware had allowed her to actually be the Shadow Broker properly we would have known Cerberus's location in the first ten minutes of the game. The problem is that they had to give Traynor to do something other than tell me someone wants to talk to me, which I already know because I've managed to check my messages before she mentions is.

It doesn't matter what Bioware "could/should" have done.  Fact is, Liara barely did anything that was helpful to Shepard.  She knew all about Tali's suit download history but couldn't tell Shepard anything useful about  the Reapers or Cerberus.  

It matters entirely what Bioware wrote. If she had done what you say she should have done everyone in this thread would be complaining that Liara did too much and Traynor was pointless. You have to look at the situation from a developer's point of view.

Not so.  If Liara had spent more time being useful and less time trying to stalk Shepard, I think a lot of people would be more happy. 

Honestly? Have you seen how many "I hate Liara" threads appear on a daily basis? If Liara was anymore involved with the plot they would double.

He's trolling you now. Just leave.

I have 3 hours before my next lecture with absolutely nothing to do, I don't really care xD

Modifié par Elyiia, 09 mai 2012 - 06:05 .

[4stringwizard]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

4stringwizard wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Again,
if Bioware had allowed her to actually be the Shadow Broker properly we
would have known Cerberus's location in the first ten minutes of the
game. The problem is that they had to give Traynor to do something other
than tell me someone wants to talk to me, which I already know because
I've managed to check my messages before she mentions is.

It
doesn't matter what Bioware "could/should" have done.  Fact is, Liara
barely did anything that was helpful to Shepard.  She knew all about
Tali's suit download history but couldn't tell Shepard anything useful
about  the Reapers or Cerberus.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie]

It
matters entirely what Bioware wrote. If she had done what you say she
should have done everyone in this thread would be complaining that Liara
did too much and Traynor was pointless. You have to look at the
situation from a developer's point of view.

Not so.
 If Liara had spent more time being useful and less time trying to stalk
Shepard, I think a lot of people would be more happy. 

@Elyiia He's trolling you now. Just leave.

Only a bit.