52 réponses à ce sujet

[kevin1gamer]

About a month ago my best friend and I got into a bit of a fight (not a fist fight, but rather an argument).  We kind of said some things we didn't mean and went our separate ways.

|I apologized after the incident (not immediately after, but I think I waited like a day or two, because she was still very upset), for I realized how much I screwed up almost immediately after the argument, but she said she hated me.

She then removed me as a friend on Facebook, wouldn't return my phone calls, removed me as a friend on Xbox Live, removed me as a friend on MySpace, blocked me on Facebook, and got two of our mutual friends to think less of me (which is understandable, since they were there and I was totally out of line).

Just today, a month (give or take a few days) later, she just sent me a friend request on Xbox Live.  I just received (and accepted) the friend request about 15 minutes ago, in the middle of playing Resident Evil 5.  I don't think she added any text or voice with the request, if so, i didn't see it, because I forgot that you could add those with friend requests (and because my partner needed my help in Resident Evil 5, since we were

Spoiler

fighting against Wesker and Jill together

).

She has yet to send me a message (assuming she didn't in the friend request), nor have I contact her.  We were arguing over whether or not gay marriage should be legal, she said it should (she has a gay uncle or something, but I didn't know her uncle was gay at the time), and I said it shouldn't be legal.  I never really met a gay person (other than that one kid in 2nd hour, but I never talked to him before, primarily because he scares me, because he is gay and he acts [and talks] all gay).

She said I was too closed minded, I even went so far as to saying that gays aren't people, they are things, but then she told me about her uncle, and that's when things got really bad.  I was like "fine, I'll be the mature one" and left.  That was the end (apart from my apology later on).  So, do you think this is a good sign or not (she could have just added me to harass me or something)?

[Kevin Lynch]

Best bet: send some short "how are you doing? what's going on?" type messages. Get a feel for where your (former) friend is at and move it forward to heal the rift.

[Benfea]

 Male friendships are different from female friendships.

Guy friends get our fighting out of the way BEFORE the friendship starts, and if something else flares up, the next day we just pretend it didn't happen and go back to getting drunk together. No recriminations, no apologies, no flowers, just return to drunken beer-fueled buffoonery like nothing happened.

I have lots of platonic female friendships, and it seems like girl-girl friendships sometimes get needlessly stormy and sometimes the storms end friendships entirely.

If you ask me, this is one area where the guys have the better idea.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

kevin1gamer wrote...
So, do you think this is a good sign
or not (she could have just added me to harass me or something)?

Sure, it's a good sign...
If you can make a good second step. How about making an invitation for something that allows for but does not require conversation?
Cooking together might work, or doing some sort of physical activity (badminton, swimming...), so that you can try to fathom the nature of your current relationship.

We were arguing over whether or not gay marriage should be legal, she said it should (she has a gay uncle or something, but I didn't know her uncle was gay at the time), and I said it shouldn't be legal.  I never really met a gay person (other than that one kid in 2nd hour, but I never talked to him before, primarily because he scares me, because he is gay and he acts [and talks] all gay).

She said I was too closed minded, I even went so far as to saying that
gays aren't people, they are things, but then she told me about her
uncle, and that's when things got really bad.

I don't think we can argue this (laws on homosexuals) on these forums so I'll refrain from it (if you think you need some convincing you can send me a personal message (if that works on this forum, haven't really got to know it yet)), but maybe at some point you should show her that you are trying to rid yourself of your intolerant ways and not just for personal reasons.

[Somehing]

My GOD you're going to get flame for this. DON'T YOU KNOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE SEXUALLY INSECURE AND TRYING TO ACT HARD LIKE EVERYONE ELSE??!?! A long, long line of teenage boys with no friends at all that need to insult others to act witty and smart await.

Seriously, I'm glad some people still open up like this though, furthermore that you haven't received any abusive replies yet is just..miraculous.

As for my advice, I don't feel informed enough about how it all happened to give much, but I would just say what the others are anyway - light, simple, generic things like "how are you?" and "sunny day, no?" etc to test the waters first, leaving convo/activity open-ended to see how 'okay' she is with you now. Maybe a little while after that you can actually ask her how she feels now, tell her again you're sorry, etc. If you don't it may come across as if you're ignoring what happened/what you said (of course, it may not and she might just feel awkward talking about it...try to suss it out yourself).

Good luck!

[Mordaedil]

kevin, whatever chance you had of redeeming yourself in my eyes have officially vanished.



I cannot be friends with someone who is this close-minded and unlike your friend, I do not have any gay family members or real life friends. I just know what is right in my heart and soul and I'm afraid anyone who disagrees with that notion isn't going to be friends with me.



Why can't love be free?

[Sinner200]

here here

[Lady Dwarf]

Benfea wrote...

 Male friendships are different from female friendships.

Guy friends get our fighting out of the way BEFORE the friendship starts, and if something else flares up, the next day we just pretend it didn't happen and go back to getting drunk together. No recriminations, no apologies, no flowers, just return to drunken beer-fueled buffoonery like nothing happened.

I have lots of platonic female friendships, and it seems like girl-girl friendships sometimes get needlessly stormy and sometimes the storms end friendships entirely.

If you ask me, this is one area where the guys have the better idea.

Despite the avatar, kevin1gamer is male.

[Somehing]

(I think he was just giving an example of how it becomes more complicated with girls involved)

[Lady Dwarf]

Mordaedil wrote...

I cannot be friends with someone who is this close-minded and unlike your friend, I do not have any gay family members or real life friends. I just know what is right in my heart and soul and I'm afraid anyone who disagrees with that notion isn't going to be friends with me.

Why can't love be free?

I can see your point, and if it were someone in my  own age-group, I'd respond the same way.  kevin, though,is obviously still quite young, so there is time for his views to become more  moderate.  If I were his friend, I'd try to find out why he  feels so strongly on the subject. It may be simply a case of "fear of the unknown". Kevin1gamer says he doesn't even really know any gay people; perhaps if he met his friend's uncle and realised that he was just another person, he might feel differently.

I've never understood why people get so uptight about this. Relationships are between people, not sets of genitalia. If two people care about each other, that's what matters, not the mechanics of "what goes where".

[Mordaedil]

But... *I* don't know any gay people (offline) and *I'm* quite young! It's not really that much of an excuse.

[Rheannan]

kevin1gamer wrote...

She has yet to send me a message (assuming she didn't in the friend request), nor have I contact her.  We were arguing over whether or not gay marriage should be legal, she said it should (she has a gay uncle or something, but I didn't know her uncle was gay at the time), and I said it shouldn't be legal.  I never really met a gay person (other than that one kid in 2nd hour, but I never talked to him before, primarily because he scares me, because he is gay and he acts [and talks] all gay).

People with different values can be friends. It sounds as if she cooled down and decided she would like to still be friends with you.

Send her a message and ask her how she's been.

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

but maybe at some point you should show her that you are trying to rid yourself of your intolerant ways and not just for personal reasons.

Or maybe she should just accept the fact that he might have different values and leave it at that.

Modifié par Rheannan, 09 décembre 2009 - 09:04 .

[Monstruo696]

cool story bro

[Lady Dwarf]

Mordaedil wrote...

But... *I* don't know any gay people (offline) and *I'm* quite young! It's not really that much of an excuse.

I wasn't saying it was an excuse, just that for someone young there's always the chance that they'll learn to be more tolerant. A great deal depends on upbringing, the attitudes shown by one's peers, etc.

Certainly, if someone says "Well, that's how I feel about it, and that won't change", then I wouldn't want anything to do with them either.

[Rheannan]

This thread has some strange posts. I'm not discounting anything but I find it interesting that some replies remind me of what people say about men and women going into relationships, that the woman hopes the man changes while the man hopes the woman doesn't.

In either instance, a relationship or a friendship, both people have the choice to accept the other as they are. Trying to change the other will probably just lead to frustration on the part of the person attempting to do the changing. Kevin's friend will either accept him as he is or she won't. He just needs to wait and see.

Modifié par Rheannan, 09 décembre 2009 - 11:16 .

[Dahn-Var Starcloak]

kevin1gamer wrote...



She said I was too closed minded, I
even went so far as to saying that gays aren't people, they are things,
but then she told me about her uncle, and that's when things got really
bad.

Now that was rude of you. Funny how not so long ago I called you a spambot. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Mordaedil wrote...

Why can't love be free?

Nothing comes free.

Lady Dwarf wrote...

I've never understood why people get so uptight about this. Relationships are between people, not sets of genitalia. If two people care about each other, that's what matters, not the mechanics of "what goes where".

Let's assume that suddenly everyone starts 'caring' in such a way. What happens then?  In this regard 'what goes where' is all that matters.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Mordaedil wrote...
I just know what is right in my heart and soul and I'm afraid anyone who disagrees with that notion isn't going to be friends with me.

Now this is the second dangerous opinion stated in this thread. And then there comes the second half of the sentence, which is simply intolerant (but everybody is a little intolerant in their own little way, so whatever  )

Let's not discuss what (or who) is right or wrong here and concentrate on the main subject, shall we?

[Critical Miss]

kevin1gamer wrote...
She said I was too closed minded, I even went so far as to saying that gays aren't people, they are things... & ...I was like "fine, I'll be the mature one"...

Glad I'm not your friend.

[Mordaedil]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...
Now this is the second dangerous opinion stated in this thread. And then there comes the second half of the sentence, which is simply intolerant (but everybody is a little intolerant in their own little way, so whatever  )

Let's not discuss what (or who) is right or wrong here and concentrate on the main subject, shall we?

I'm allowed to chose my own friends. I'm not going to say it automatically makes us enemies, but opinions can definately paint my impression of how well we get along. It doesn't have to do with intolerance, it just has to do with compatability.

Is it wrong to plainly state how we'll get along is one of us maintain a certain mind-set?

[Quixal]

For some reason, reading the title made me think this would be a discussion about Keanu Reeves...
/joking

It sounds like if you are careful, you can salvage the friendship, though it may not be the same as it was. On the specific issue of contention, you seem to feel very strongly about it but lack any actual experience. You are young, so that is to be expected. I recommend meeting the uncle in question if possible. It will give you better perspective.

"The illusion of understanding is a product of distance and perspective. True understanding requires involvement." - Steven Brust

Even if your views remain as they are, all hope is not lost. You can disagree and remain friends. You do need to learn to respect the opinions of others however. And a little tact might not hurt either.

That came out a little more condescending than I intended, but there you are.

Modifié par Quixal, 09 décembre 2009 - 01:55 .

[elijah_kaine]

Mordaedil wrote...
Is it wrong to plainly state how we'll get along is one of us maintain a certain mind-set?

Socially yes its wrong. Morally, no I don't see what's wrong with it.

The only thing is refusing to speak to someone or get along with someone due to their intolerant views doesn't build up any bridges it blocks communication and makes it hard to change anybodies mind.

Then again changing people minds about things like this that are very subjective to a persons perspective isn't your job.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as the OP's prediciment...

I would honestly just try to open up communication again. Go do something. See a movie. Grab a bite to eat. Go to the Gym, make small talk. 

I wouldn't bring up the subject again because it's sensitive for both of you. I would definetly not bring up the conversation again if you don't see yourself changing your mind on your position. Finally, if your friend brings it up, be prepared to tell the friend you don't want to talk about it or be open to changing your mind.

Also if you end up getting into another debate about it, don't just fling insults like "they're not even people!" Becuase I know you know that's not true. Plus it's the equivlant of tossing kitchen ware at each other with words, kinda releaves anger to yell obsenities and trhow stuff but it ultimately doesn't solve any problems.

If the friend insists on talking about it use intelligent points and logic to talk about it, don't let yourself get heated about the subject, don't say anything stupid, and if you can't come up with a good position as to why they shouldn't get married without resulting in religion and emotions and etc, then maybe it's time to reconsider your position.

[mrofni]

We can discuss this for the moment, but the second Stanley Woo sees this it'll get closed. Politics are hot button issues they don't want.



But anyway, there are legitimate reasons why people may disapprove of homosexuality. One of them is religious reasons, another is the potential social morality issues it could cause for future generations. However, I wouldn't state homosexuality as worse then infidelity or casual sex or any fetish. If people want to march a crusade against homosexuality because of their beliefs, they can, but they should march a crusade against all sins, not just ones that are only applicable to someone else. I personally wouldn't participate in such a march, because I believe people have the right to do what they want, provided it doesn't stomp on other people's rights.



I personally disapprove of homosexuality, but I don't try to force anyone else to live by my standards. I simply frown upon it, like I frown upon someone cheating on their spouse or having sex with people they barely know. I plan to teach my children my values, when I have them, including my values that people need to make choices for themselves and face the results for better or for worse.



keven1gamer, I don't know what I would do if I were you. That is because I don't know what you are actually feeling. I can tell you are sad that you lost your friend, but I can't tell if you are remorseful about what you said or if it is just carrying over from losing your friend. I would take a deep look inside yourself to find out what you truly believe, if you truly think homosexuals aren't people and whether you think that belief is right. However, that belief is very similar to slave owner's beliefs in the past.



If after this look inside yourself, you find that you believe homosexuals are people and have rights like everybody else, then I would look to making a sincere apology to your ex-friend and your other 2 friends that were there. If you believe homosexuals aren't people but think that belief is/may be wrong, then you are on a very long and difficult path to get past your primal fear/hatred to change your beliefs. I wouldn't even know where to begin on that one. If you believe homosexuals aren't people and believe you are right, then I would suggest finding a group of friends who think the same and enjoy life with them.



In any rate, I'm not going to tell you how to live your life. Just remember that there will be consequences for whatever you choose. I avoided saying consequences earlier because people have the tendency to think that whenever you speak of consequences it will be bad, when that isn't the meaning. It is merely a result of an action, good or bad.

[Rheannan]

elijah_kaine wrote...

and if you can't come up with a good position as to why they shouldn't get married without resulting in religion and emotions and etc, then maybe it's time to reconsider your position.

If what he's saying is because of religious belief, then telling him to reconsider his position might not be appreciated.

[Snoteye]

I'm confused. Why can't happy people get married?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Mordaedil wrote...
I'm allowed to chose my own friends. I'm not going to say it automatically makes us enemies, but opinions can definately paint my impression of how well we get along. It doesn't have to do with intolerance, it just has to do with compatability.

Is it wrong to plainly state how we'll get along is one of us maintain a certain mind-set?

In this point you are right, you are indeed allowed to choose with whom you wish to interact. But that wasn't really the main part of my criticism.

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...

I
just know what is right in my heart and soul [...]

Now this
is the second dangerous opinion stated in this thread.

Your opinion that a truth can be so obvious (without any first hand experience even) that the (in-)ability to recognize it is enough to divide mankind into two categories is, as I said, dangerous and can be the source for more problems.

One cannot know the truth simply by asking one's heart or soul. Countless people have tried that, until science was finally able to prove them wrong (which often meant the death penalty for the scientists in question).

mrofni wrote...
But anyway, there are legitimate
reasons why people may disapprove of homosexuality. One of them is
religious reasons, another is the potential social morality issues it
could cause for future generations. However, I wouldn't state
homosexuality as worse then infidelity or casual sex or any fetish. If
people want to march a crusade against homosexuality because of their
beliefs, they can, but they should march a crusade against all sins,
not just ones that are only applicable to someone else. I personally
wouldn't participate in such a march, because I believe people have the
right to do what they want, provided it doesn't stomp on other people's
rights.

Religion seldomly is a legitimate reason for anything. What some Moslems did on 9/11 has religious reasons. What the Christians did to Jews and Moslems during the Crusades had religious reasons.

I would also ask you to not imply that homosexuality was a sin but unfortunately the major religion in my country actually regards it as such, so it would not be difficult to argue why it is.